Dual Cam Sway Control

Tom39 · 10-19-2012, 09:26 PM

Hello all,

Has anyone or does anyone use the Dual Cam Sway control system when pulling their TT?
Reese Dual Cam High-Performance Sway Control Reese Weight Distribution RP26002

I am pulling my new to me 2001 26ft SL Advancer TT with a Jeep Grand Cherokee (V8 AWD)as my TV and a little concerned of sway at highway speeds on the interstate. I have not yet towed it in those conditions but not sure I want to find out the hard way.

I currently have a Reese weight distribution hitch and airbags on the TV but was looking to add the Dual Cam setup for a bit more control.

Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading,
TOM G.

**Sunline Fan** · 10-19-2012, 09:34 PM

Hi Tom,

None of your current equipment will help with sway. A Dual Cam will certainly do that. MANY of us on here run that exact system and many like it. Is it the easiest to hook up all the time- probably not. Is it the most effective sway control system out there- no. But it is a very capable system and quite a value for the money. When it's set up correctly, it is very comparable to some of the expensive systems like the Hensley Hitch.

I'm sure JohnB will be along soon to help explain what you have now and how the DC will help that.

In the mean time, John will need to know more about your Grand Cherokee. What year is it (the body styles vary greatly in capability and design), and what is the rear axle gear ratio (3.55ish, 3.73, etc)?

Jon

Tom39 · 10-20-2012, 06:58 AM

Sunling fan,

My current Tow Vehicle Specs

2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo
Full Time AWD
4.7L V8
5 speed Automatic Trans w/OD
F & R Diff ratio - 3.73:1
Wheel Base - 109.5"
Gross Vehicle Weight - 4613lbs
Max Gross Trailer Weight - 6500lbs

Thanks,
TOM G.

jim44646 · 10-20-2012, 09:09 AM

I run a duel cam system, I have for years. I had one of the first years ago. The thing I have found helps the most is stabilizing the rear end of tow vehicle. Using heavier sidewall tires. I have a 06 Jeep Grand Cherokee I use to tow my boat. I use suspension air lift bags which helps control porposieing. I can add air when towing, then let air out when not towing to soften the ride

Gene · 10-20-2012, 04:46 PM

As Jon said, they are popular here. JohnB has a wealth of info that he can share and no doubt can point you to some of his excellent threads, with pictures, on setting up the dual cam.

Tom39 · 10-21-2012, 10:30 AM

Jim,

What tires are you running? I am planning on purchasing new tires in the spring. I currently have a set of Michelin's 205/55 R16 Passenger tires on it from the prior owner and they worked fine when I was only towing my utility trailer or my 2800lb pop-up. But my new trailer is about 5200lb loaded and i am guessing that the tongue weight is about 500lbs about 1.5X more than before. I have looked into a new set from Michelin and really have not found something I thought would really work?

Any advice would be appreciated,
Tom G

SimonKenton · 10-21-2012, 10:48 AM

I use the Reese Dual Cam with my T2753 and never had a problem. Used them on my 23 ft before that. Easy to hook up and always pulls straight.

jim44646 · 10-21-2012, 05:06 PM

I tend to go overboard. I'm using Firestone Transforce HT light truck tire. Rides a bit stiff unloaded but stable when loaded. Your working with a short wheel base so it's eas for the TT to control the TV.

EMD_Driver · 10-21-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim44646

I tend to go overboard. I'm using Firestone Transforce HT light truck tire. Rides a bit stiff unloaded but stable when loaded. Your working with a short wheel base so it's eas for the TT to control the TV.

What size tires do you have on your 2553?

jim44646 · 10-21-2012, 05:56 PM

St205/75-15

EMD_Driver · 10-21-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim44646

St205/75-15

Ah... Ok...

I thought you were running LT's on your trailer...

jim44646 · 10-21-2012, 06:46 PM

When I put new tires on TT they'll be LTs. Better quality than STs

**JohnB** · 10-21-2012, 08:36 PM

Hi Tom,

It sounds like you have no anti sway control system and you are using air bags with a WD hitch. Did I understand this correctly?

Air bags and a WD hitch are not a great combo. The air bags can work against the WD hitch in your case with the light suspension. There are places on a heavy suspension trucks that have a lot of bed weight that can successfully use air bags with a WD hitch. However on your combo, if the WD is setup correct, you do not need the air bags. We need more info on your setup to know what it is you have. Here are some questions to help us help you.

1. What pressure are you running in the bags?

2. What size WD bars do you have?

3. Any pics of what you hitch looks like, ideally hitched up ready to camp?

4. Do you know the wheel base on your truck?

5. What air pressure are in the truck tires and camper tires when you where towing? And what size tire and max side wall pressure is the tire rated at?

6. Have you ever set the WD on the truck and if so what did you use as a guide to set it up correct? Did you take fender heights before and after?

7. Have you ever weighed the truck by chance and have axle weights before you hitched up the camper?

8. While your digging for info, need the truck GVWR, the front and rear axle ratings (GAWR). This info should be on the drivers door panel. And ideally the Gross Combined weight rating (GCWR) That is in the owners manual for your engine and rear axle ratio.

We can help walk you through how to optimize the WD hitch and add a form of anti sway control. And to help you sort out that the TT has proper tongue weight to create natural low trailer sway. The Reese DC is a good anti sway control but it in itself will not solve all the problems. We also need to see what type Reese you have. They made a lot of them over the years .

I cannot give you a quick fix on this, but can help explain many of the common areas that can cause problems and how to help adjust for them. Your short wheelbase TV, longer TT and light suspension all need to be optimized for TT towing to make it the best they can be. As we go through your towing health check it may turn up an area that needs an upgrade or you at least know the problem areas.

Hope this helps

John

jim44646 · 10-22-2012, 05:47 AM

John
I tow TT with pickup w/duel cam. I tow boat with Jeep which tends to porpoise without air bags. My whole point was TIRES. Weak sidewall tires can cause rear end shimmy on TV which can relate to lack of control while towing.

**JohnB** · 10-22-2012, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim44646

John
I tow TT with pickup w/duel cam. I tow boat with Jeep which tends to porpoise without air bags. My whole point was TIRES. Weak sidewall tires can cause rear end shimmy on TV which can relate to lack of control while towing.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the clarification on the PU truck on the camper and the Jeep on the boat. They are 2 different situations for sure.

Yes I agree tires can create a real big issue towing a TT. Even a 2500 truck can suffer on some brands/models of flexing LT tires even with a Reese DC. A P tire has a harder time to create the stiff side wall. Some brands and types work OK pending the wheel base of the truck along and how loaded they are along with what the loaded TT tongue weight is. And then, some P tires flat out do not work. The truck is shifting left to right in the side walls even if the hitch is rigid.

We also do not know what air pressure Tom was running. Max side wall pressure can help make the P tires he has the best that it can be but it still may or may not be enough pending other truck setup areas. And then there is the brand differences. He said he was running Michelin’s which are a great tire for the truck, just they can be problematic in some cases trying to be used for towing a TT as they have softer side walls. I’m not saying his are not good just yet, need more info.

I 100% agree with your comments that tires can make of break a stable towing rig. I have run into this myself. I wish the tire industry would create a rating for side wall flex so we can actually see what brands and types can be better choices for towing travel trailers. A nice cushy ride and stable towing of a TT are opposing wants. An acceptable ride with low to no side flex is the need.

On Tom’s setup, need more information to be able to tell what is optimized and what it not. Air bags with a WD hitch on a light short TV with a long TT point to needing more info to figure out what he is into. Odds are high there is not 1 thing but the combination of several things. Need to look at each area, see where it is then make a judgment call on what is Ok and what needs help.

Looking forward to some more info from Tom to be able to help better.

Thanks

John

Tom39 · 10-22-2012, 07:03 AM

John,

Thanks for the reply. So you know what you are dealing with and my towing experience I thought it best to tell you a bit about me. I have towed trailers for about 25 years, from goose necks, car trailers, utility trailers, popup camper and even a 30ft TT. But with every trailer I towed, the TV was more than adequate to handle the load and not nearing it's limit as I am today. I have also never set up, hooked up or questioned how a WD hitch was set on a vehicle. Truthfully I never needed to know. But now that I have sold my 1ton 4WD 4 door dually diesel with an 8ft bed because my wife would not drive it and I have this Grand Cherokee (which is like a toy in comparison) and I have this new to me TT for about 2 weeks I am honestly in beyond my expertise.

1. Air bag pressure is normally set at 8-12# depending on what trailer I am pulling and it's weight.

2. The WD hitch is a trunion style with 1200# bars. That is the only info I could find. It came with the TT when I bought it.

3. I don't have a picture of everything hooked up yet as the hitch needed an additional 2.5in of drop to level it out. I ordered that yesterday and should be here by the end of the week.

4. The wb of tv is : 109.5in

5. TV air pressure when towing : 40-42 # also getting new tires in the spring, thinking LT tires with a higher weight rating.

6. How did I set up the WD hitch? Did I take measurements? I didn't set anything or take measurements, I honestly didn't know what to look for and the tongue needed to be dropped.

7. The TV weight is : 4613# I will have to get back to you on the actual axle GAWR of each.

8. The GVWR for the TV is: 6100#
The GCWR for the TV is: 11,450#
The GAWR for the TV is: will get back to you on that.
Tongue load limit is: 720#

I hope that all of this makes sense and thank you for helping.

**JohnB** · 10-22-2012, 10:49 AM

Tom,

Thanks for the info and where you are coming from, this really helps. Now we know how to better respond. I can tell from your posts, your a handy type of guy, you just need some help to point you where to go looking. We can help fill in the missing pieces and the reasons on why so you understand and learn along the way.

You have given some good info to start with and I will start later tonight on some of this while you round up the rest.

For the WD hitch pics, to start with, takes pics of the hitch laying on the ground even helps. I can tell from the pics what vintage you have while you wait for the shank to arrive. Each vintage adjusts a little different. Same concept just different ways of making the adjustments. A few pics saves a bunch of typing.

Thanks

John

Tom39 · 10-22-2012, 05:08 PM

JohnB,

Here is the rest of the info.

The Front axle GAWR is - 2950#
The Rear axle GAWR is - 3200#

I made a mistake in reporting the tire size in one of my prior posts, the actual tire size is a Michelin Cross Terrain P265/65R17 (Not 205/55 R16, those are on my car

) Here is the Michelin site giving the tire specs.
Cross Terrain SUV | Michelin Tires

Thanks
TOM G.

Tom39 · 10-22-2012, 05:10 PM

2 More Pics of WD hitch and one of the door panel label

**JohnB** · 10-22-2012, 09:44 PM

Hi Tom,

The Reese hitch you have is what they call a Reese HP Trunnion bar WD hitch. The HP stands for high performance. The hitch head is rated up to 1,700# tongue weight and can accept 600#, 800#, 1,200#, 1,500# and 1,700# WD bars. The WD shank has it's own rating sticker and so does the WD bars which you said where 1,200#.

The vintage you have is a good one. I have 2 of them just like that, same ones. It has a forged top and bottom welded to a soft U shaped clamp to go over the hitch shank. The head can tilt to the rear a full 15 degrees if you ever needed that much which I doubt you will.

The WD bars are the newer style that are made to work with the DC without any adapters.

I have not crunched all the numbers yet but here is a start for tonight.

A 2001 LS-26M Advancer has a dry weight catalog GVW of 4,420# with a dry tongue weight of 600#. Dry means the catalog weight the day it left Sunline, no LP in the tanks, no battery and no added options. Your internal weight sticker will tell the actual dry weight when it left Sunline. That floor plans starts with a 14.2% dry tongue weight (TW). It will tow stable as far as TW % of GVW.

Tell me on your camper, is there a pass through storage hole under the front bed from the outside? And I'm assuming there is storage under the front bed?

Now to the back of the camper, what is under the rear couch? Is there storage back there?

Where I am going with this is loaded TW. Filling the 2, 30# LP tanks adds 63# of gas weight which adds 56# to the TW. Add a battery and that can be approx 26# more TW. So your TW can be 600 + 56 + 26 = 682# before you add camping gear. The only way for sure to know this is to get it scaled once you load the camper as weight forward of the axles will add TW and weight rear of the axle subtracts some. Your layout is more conducive to adding TW due to the front storage.

The area of concern is now your trucks receiver with that 720# WD rating. If your actual dry TW is 682# and your truck limit is 720#, you are 38# away from the limit and you have not added the camper gear yet. Again the truck scales will confirm this but this is going to be tough to work with unless there is some kind of error in the on line catalog.

I have not yet dug into your rear axle capacity yet, odds are high it may line up with the 720# receiver rating or only be a little higher. I'll dig some more on this on Tuesday.

On the hitch, see this post. It can help you read up on this in pictures about setup of a DC and your WD hitch. If and when we make it to that point of adding a DC, I will tell you the differences in the new 2010 redesigned DC that you linked in here. The new ones need more shimming for the Sunline square corner channel iron frames.

Tell me this on your camper:

What is the ball height from the ground to the inside of the coupling with the camper level?

What is the A Frame side rail width? It may be 4" channel iron but just checking.

There are also instructions for your WD hitch in this link.

http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tup-10246.html

TheStiegers had some of the same issues you are up agasint. Read the notes on the use of 1,200# WD bar on a receiver not rated that high. You can find 800# WD bars that fit the hitch you have but we need to make sure the truck can hold up the camper loaded right first.

Here is some more "listening" on the hitch you have and some of what a WD does. They even have a Sunline in the video.

The 1st 8 minutes is on trailers, the last 2 minutes is on 5th wheel hitches and you can skip it or listen to them too. It's odd I cannot find this any longer on the Reese site...

Reese Weight Distribution & Sway Control Systems demonstration from KEYSTONERVSUPERCENTER.COM - YouTube

I'll be back with more on Tuesday.

John