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Old 11-06-2012, 10:59 AM   #1
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Unhappy Major Water Problem

Hello Que Owners,
We were deeply distressed when we discovered a month ago the floor in the sofa area to be spongy. This past weekend we took some time to investigate to determine the cause. When my husband got under the camper and tore off the "protective membrane" he found the luan completely saturated. Went back to the top side and decided to cut away the vinyl in one of the storage compartments to find the luan there also saturated. Recovering from our shock, we decided to lift the vinyl flooring throughout the camper to find more wet areas and some mold, especially under the sink and the bathroom door and bathroom. We are devastated! A few years back we had the same problem as some that posted in this forum about the water coming in the wheel wells. We sealed them and thought we had solved the problem. Upon the return from out last weekend out in October, we discovered water in the upper right compartment in the front sofa area. After a water test, we found a crack in the seam on the roof, sealed it and that seemed to do the trick. We then called a couple of RV repair companies and got the same response. We were told that this laminated type of flooring was something new the manufacturers' were trying out instead of the regular studded floors, but the general opinion is that it is a poor design. Neither company would accept the repair job saying that it would be cost prohibitive seeing that they would have to remove the exterior fiberglass and strip the camper back to it's framing to get to the floor because the walls sit down on top of the floor. And if you don't remove ALL the moisture, it will continue to wick and mold. They suggested we contact our insurance company and if we're lucky (!) they will total the camper. I can't believe we have a $25,000 camper with such problems! We have yet to meet with the adjuster so I can't tell you the outcome, but I was wondering if any of you Que owners have had this same experience. And if you have, how was it remedied? We're thinking that if the insurance company denies us, then we will store it for the winter and try to the best of our abilities to strip out the bad wood, replace and seal the bottom and just live with the camper knowing that there is still trapped moisture under the walls. Anybody out there with any suggestions, comments, advise? Any imput is appreciated.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:39 PM   #2
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Sorry to hear you've had troubles with your Que.

I agree with everything the repair shop said regarding the extent of the repairs. I don't know what they were referring to regarding the type of floor, but I don't know what the Que had for that matter. But, I can't stress the importance of pulling out as much as you can to replace anything that's bad. Do you have to pull out the entire floor? No, not unless the entire floor is covered with mold and rotting.

Go look at EMD_Driver's recent floor repair thread. You can see where the floor was repaired once already and the rest continued to be bad. Granted his leak still seemed to continue after that repair had been done, but still.

I gasped when you said your husband tore back the lower membrane. That material is key to keeping water out of the floor area and must be replaced. Unfortunately, if he tore it out enough to see the whole floor area, you'll be looking at replacing the entire membrane on the bottom of the trailer, which won't be an easy task. If he just cut into it a little and left the piece on there, you can buy a special tape for it to make the repair. I wouldn't trust taping the entire membrane back onto the trailer- it just wouldn't hold up to rocks, etc. I don't know much about the tape because thankfully I've never had to use any, but a few people here have and can post more about that.

It's hard to say what the cost of labor would be to make the repair, but for your information, your trailer is worth about $10k with no damage in today's market. Generally, most insurance companies look to total if the repair cost exceeds about 2/3 of the value. I doubt your repair would exceed that, but without seeing the damage, it's hard for me to put a value on. You probably could put it up for sale and advertise that it needs repairs and still sell it for $3500-$5000.

Hopefully it doesn't come to any of that. I'd suggest seeing about another opinion.

Out of curiosity, what kinds of repair places did you contact? Were they RV dealers, or independent repair places?
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:04 AM   #3
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Thanks for the imput and suggestions. The floor is a composite, from top to bottom of vinyl (not glued to luan), 1/4" plywood, 1 9/16" styrofoam, 1/8"luan and then the membrane. Other than the vinyl all the layers are laminate and vacuumed sealed. When the 1/8" luan got wet (we suspect from the open seams in the wheel wells), it delaminated the other layers. This caused the breakdown in the structural strength of the floor. In other words, there are no wood structural members on the floor like we've seen online. That would make replacing the worst areas easy. Ours is like 1 large sheet of plywood with the outside walls sitting on top of it. If we go the do-it-yourself repair route we plan to install new plywood from the underside and undercoat it. My son works at a place that can do this. This would replace the membrane layer.Once all the vinyl is removed we will treat the mold and seal the floor with a resin and install new flooring (don't know what just yet). This is if the insurance company doesn't pony up. We have enjoyed our camper and like most everything about it, so I'm not ready to give it up for $3-$5K. The repair companies we talked with are both RV dealers so I'm pretty sure they know what ther're talking about. I hope other Que owners aren't dealing with this issue but I suspect we can't be the only ones out there with this problem. I'll let you know how we make out with the insurance company and what we decide to do next. Thanks for your reply and interest.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:18 AM   #4
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I'd still go to a RV repair company, no dealership, to see what they have to say. Maybe even two of them. RV dealers are for selling and minor repairs or new parts installation. Major repairs need to be done somewhere else. JMO.


Hope you find a good place to fix your Que.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:39 AM   #5
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Yes, I agree. The place we're taking it is strictly a repair shop with 5 former employees of a pretty good size RV dealership. Maybe they saw the kind of money that can be made in the repair end of the business. Anyways, we've used them before and they appear to be reasonable, trustworthy and efficient. What more can we ask at this point?!
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:43 PM   #6
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Hi Marbarker,

Sorry to hear about your floor. I have not seen the Que but I can understand your floor description as I have seen similar on other brands made from composite materials.

If you end up going the DIY route, post some pics, we may be able to help. Pending hubbies access to tools and space, my first thought is similar to yours. Since the Que is small and only single axle, the weight is not as heavy with the camper emptied. If you can work you way in on the edges, separate the upper part of the camper from the floor supporting the camper on cribbing. Replace the floor with good solid Marine plywood, thickness will depend on the frame situation if 3/4" will do or you have to layer it up more. The holding tanks however they are situated is something to work through.

Good luck and glad to help from the web as best we can.

John
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:20 AM   #7
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I don't know how much your current floor weighs vs. how much it will weigh if you convert to marine plywood, but you might want to figure out the difference. With the cargo capacity of the QUE being only 500# you'll need to be aware if there is a difference, so you can pack lighter.
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:18 AM   #8
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Our "new to us" 2007 RE Que has a soft spot about a foot inside the entry between the shower wall and fridge. I haven't had time to pull the vinyl up, however I see no other soft spots and underneath the membrane is intact and no rusted screws. I will post when I'm able to do a little detective work.

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Old 11-11-2012, 06:00 PM   #9
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We thought we had only one spot to deal with but when we cut away the vinyl flooring which is not adhered to the underlayment, we could see that the flooring was wet beyond the area of concern. At that point we removed all the vinyl to find multiple areas of moisture and mold. Finding the point of entry is critical. We were told to inspect every seam including the exterior horizontal seam under the stationary window in the front. We believe a lot of the water is coming from the top and inside the wall and then seeps in between the vinyl and plywood, traveling horizontally throughout the camper floor. Of course, this is pure speculation and the only way to solve the mystery is a matter of elimination. Let's hope you have only a minor water problem to deal with. With this type of floor, I don't know how you repair just a section. I will post pics as we go along and would like to see how you address your issue. Good luck!
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:30 AM   #10
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It's been one month since the insurance adjuster paid us a visit and finally yesterday we received the verdict. Total loss. The good thing is that we are being compensated for the full NADA value less our $250 deductable. So I won't be posting any repair pics. The insurance company told us that our Que For 2 will be headed for the auction. While I am pleased that the insurance company came through for us, I must say, I'm saddened to think we'll be saying goodbye to our beloved Que. We thoroughly enjoyed it for 4 years and loved so much about this camper (except the leaks!). So, now we'll have to go camper shopping again. I'm thinking I'd like to stay with a Sunline, a #1950 perhaps? Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated. I'll post with progress. I surely hope that the leak issue we had with the Que was an isolated situation. I would advise the other Que owners out there to check and double check all of the seals, top, bottom and sides. We've learned our lesson and will be much more pro-active with our next camper.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:33 AM   #11
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Hi Marbarker,

Sorry to hear about the verdict. The amount of labor and the labor rates really drive these kind of repairs up. The materials are not so bad but the labor is. There is a lot of labor in this kind of repair. I know the work I have done repairing and upgrading I could only afford it as I do the work myself.

Curious if you do not mind letting us know, what type of insurance do you have? Under somewhat of an actual traditional RV insurance policy, a total loss comes out to be the value of the policy. Which on a new camper is the price paid if 5 years has elapsed. If bought new and less then 5 years they replace the camper with a new one of equal value. This helps make a camper sort of depreciation proof. You at least get the money back you paid or better. This also applies to used campers on an RV policy, just you have to come up with the declared value at the time you take out the policy. Your total loss payout is the value of the policy not how old/value it is.

Was your insurance a rider on an auto policy? It sounded like they looked up the current day value for how old the camper was and used this as the payout price.

Thanks

John
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:58 AM   #12
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This scares the H out of me. Seems like I'm always reading about water problems. I bought a moisture meter and occasionally go around TT and probe for moisture. Hopefully to catch anything before it gets bad. I inspect the roof several times a summer also.
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Old 12-06-2012, 12:13 PM   #13
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Yes, my RV policy was a rider on my auto & home policy.
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:39 PM   #14
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Sorry to hear about the water problem. Good the insurance came through. FYI, we have a #1950, used it three times so far, but enough to say we love it. If you don't want to pull a big unit this is the perfect size. We are already signed up for the M&G in June. Can't wait for spring...
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:10 PM   #15
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So sorry to hear about your problem.....happy to hear the insurance company did right by you!

Hopefully you will find a 1950 that is in good shape, that you will learn to love as much as your Que for Two!
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marbarker View Post
Yes, my RV policy was a rider on my auto & home policy.
Hi again,

Thanks for the note. I do not know the exact rider you have but I will pass this along when you get your next camper on something to think through.

When we bought our pop up new, I called my local auto insurer and added it. It was cheap, I think about $45 on $10,750 PU for full coverage, what ever they offered. It had what they called full coverage, fire and comp. OK great. I thought it was cheap but since I had all my home and cars with them this may have been a bundle deal.

Then we bought our first new Sunline. We now have a lot more invested. I started hearing about an RV policy verses a rider on your auto insurance. The more I researched the more I learned.

So I called my agent before we bought the new camper and asked this question. On my present policy on my PU, if we were camping in the CG and my LP tank blew up and started the camper next to me on fire was I covered? This threw them for a loop. They came back and said no.

Then I learned that my camper was only covered when it left my home only as long as it was hooked to the truck. If I totaled it when driving I had coverage. When we were at the camp ground unhooked from the truck, the coverage was no longer in force. Oh boy.... Why would they do that.... It's a camper, people camp in these things.

If I camped in my back yard unhooked from the truck, no problem as it is on my property. Many auto polices treat campers as a trailer. On your property it is covered, towing down the road it is covered. A home owner normally does not take their trailer and go unhook it somewhere other than their own property.

I was lucky, nothing ever happened when we had out PU. I asked our agent if they offer a complete RV policy, they did not offer one. So I had to go buy one for the camper elsewhere.

On an RV policy for a new camper, the price you paid for it new is locked into your policy. For 5 years if a total damage problem would come they give you a new camper of the same status. After 5 years they will pay out the price you paid regardless of how old it is, 10 years or older. When you unhook at a CG, your covered. It is not part of the auto and has nothing to do with it. Each brand and RV policy is a little different but most have the same common theme, they are made for a camper and the way we use our campers. And yes they do cost more. Shop around. What made me change was the fact I had no coverage in the CG once I unhooked from the truck.

I also happen to have diss-appearing deductible. I have had the policy long enough with no claims I have no deductable. I use the insurance for only a disaster. If I total it while towing or a very bad thing happens like a fire, then I would use it to pay put. In my case I will get the full policy price to help towards a new camper.

I took some time to type this in case you did not know or other folks following along. We had another club member total his camper in a towing accident a few years back. If was a total loss for him. He did not have the replacement insurance. Very unfortunate. I learned from that to call my RV policy company and triple check that I would be covered totally if it was my fault or someone else's. It would be covered under comp or collision, to the full value of the policy but it was covered. And where ever the damage occurred. I did not ask about going out of the country, if and when we go to Canada, I will have to check.

In your case, your company gave you high dollar for the unit and that is good. It may have been because of the type of damage verses a tree falling on it in a camp ground unhooked from the truck. It did sound like they used the depreciated value.

Just a friendly heads up to check if you have not already for what to do on your next camper. Pending what you pay for it may affect the type of policy.

Good luck in your new camper search. And yes the T1950 is a very nice camper. A very popular model.

John
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:25 PM   #17
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Sorry to hear it came to this. Glad to hear you plan to stay in the Sunline family.

If you get a chance, please consider submitting all the owner's manual info to me from your trailer before it goes to auction. Chances are, once it goes there, someone will buy it for parts and the frame and likely won't repair it, so that information would be lost for good.
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Old 12-15-2012, 12:36 PM   #18
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Our little Que was hauled away this past Tuesday. So, now we're off camper shopping, not my favorite thing to do. Anyways, we looked at a 2004 Sunline T2075 in fantastic shape. My question is what tow vehicle is needed to haul this camper? We have a Chevy Trailblazer with a V6. The GVWR is 5600lbs so we're concerned about the Trailblazer not being up to the challenge. We'd love to find a 1950 but they seem rare. Help!
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:07 PM   #19
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JohnB...interesting info. Might be time for a call to our insurance agent.
Marbarker...we towed our QUE with a Chevy trailblazer and felt it was maxed out with that. IMO even a 1950 is too much for that vehicle. There are a lot of older model Sunlines that would work if you could find one in good shape. ie. 1550, 1650 series, 1750s.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:45 PM   #20
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I have a 6 cyl Explorer that I used to tow a T-2363 with a GVWR of 5500 lbs until we got the F-150. It did okay for short trips but I wouldn't try towing through mountains.
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