suggested modifications???

[Tod Osier]

We are dragging out T-1950 to Alaska next summer and I want to start coming up with a list of mods. A concern is the rough roads, so suspension upgrades would be something I’m thinking.


I’ve flipped the axles, and upgraded the tires to LT, so that is a start. We are pretty well set up for boondocking (2 group 24s and generator, all LED lighting, 2 30# propane tanks). I’m happy with the water system (other than the capacity and we carry blue jugs for that), I’ve installed an accumulator tank and detailed the mod here – I really like the accumulator.

Suggestions of suspension related things to do that will improve things a bit for all the rough roads? Best bang for the buck???


Thanks,
Tod

[mainah]

Sounds like you have got it covered only other thing might be a shock kit and maybe another camper spire tire. I have no generator and all of my lights are LED's accumulator low current exhaust fan and I have done 7 days with my 2 batteries (160 amp) with out a charge even using my 100 watt ham radio and a TV. I live in the thing like I do my house and uses what ever makes me comfortable so with a generator you should be fine.

[MOKID]

When you say next summer are you talking about 2013 or 2014? We are planning on taking that trip in 2014 with our T-1950. One of my concerns
is the front glass and window awning. Any thoughts on how to protect that from flying rocks.

[Tod Osier]

Originally Posted by MOKID

When you say next summer are you talking about 2013 or 2014? We are planning on taking that trip in 2014 with our T-1950. One of my concerns
is the front glass and window awning. Any thoughts on how to protect that from flying rocks.

Talking 2013. We are going to do the full deal, hauling the camper up to Prudhoe Bay on the haul road, so we will be on plenty of bad road. I've hauled on a lot of gravel and haven't had problems with strikes high up although the lower 3' of the front alumunum is just trashed at this point.

T

[Tod Osier]

Originally Posted by mainah

Sounds like you have got it covered only other thing might be a shock kit and maybe another camper spire tire. I have no generator and all of my lights are LED's accumulator low current exhaust fan and I have done 7 days with my 2 batteries (160 amp) with out a charge even using my 100 watt ham radio and a TV. I live in the thing like I do my house and uses what ever makes me comfortable so with a generator you should be fine.

Thanks Mainah. We are in good shape for boondocking, I feel very good abotu that part. We spent 7 weeks this spring/summer boondocking in WY in that T-1950.

I'm considering a second spare. One for the truck for sure.

Things like a shock kit are what I'm thinking or upgrading any suspension components that are known to be weak.

[Tweety]

What about carrying an extra leaf spring? There has been some discussion of people breaking those.

[mike71654]

The previous owner of the Sunline we now own took it to Alaska about 5 years ago. I must tell you when we bought our camper the lower 1 1/2 feet of the front end looked like somebody had been using it for target practice with a BB gun. The stone roads up there just beat it to death. When I spoke to the dealer we bought it from they said the previous owner did not have mud flaps on his tow vehicle when he went up there. I have since added a nice shiny piece of diamond plate that cover the front end and it looks great. Lesson learned...MUD FLAPS on the tow vehicle.

[mainah]

I guess the biggest benefit of the shocks it to keep every thing inside from being tossed around like being in a cement mixer.

[O Canada]

Hey Tod. Are you heading up through my neck of the woods; Edmonton, Alberta?

[henryj]

It's been more than 6 years since we towed our previous popup to AK. I have a post in this thread as well as a Yellowknife report here, and will add some additional thoughts. I know from your last trip that you are familiar with backcountry camping so I'll stick to what might be the unexpected--but keep in mind that's 7 years ago this spring.

Traveling the AK Hwy is not difficult. For the most part the road is very good, but with plenty of frost heaves especially in AK itself--but construction sites are very bad. Most pavement is tar and chip, or chip seal depending on where you're from. There's about 50 mi. of genuine asphalt either side of the bigger towns in BC and Whitehorse. Hwys around and between Anchorage and Fairbanks are all asphalt and as good as any state hwy in the south. If you've ever driven through a tar and chip construction site and for about a week after, you'll know the pitfalls of that stuff. In addition, it gets really beat up in winter and miles of it will be ripped up by a grader to smooth it out and then it will just sit until they get around to redoing it in summer. The Milepost is at least 6 mon. out of date and doesn't know this, but nonetheless is absolutely invaluable for travel in the north.

There's plenty of gas, but no-choice-one-station-stops only. As in most places in the west, the lots are huge so pump access is no problem. Don't drive on the bottom half of the tank and don't pass a gas station unless you're coming into a town where there's more choice. The Milepost could let you down here as a business that is open in the fall may not re-open in spring. Credit and debit cards are good at all gas stations and most other places except perhaps small businesses and public campgrounds. US cash is also good--you won't get anywhere near the going rate and will get CDN$ in change, but can feel confident carrying an emergency stash in just U$. US banks don't like any foreign coins, and that includes CDN loonies and toonies, but will give a good exchange on any left over bills after you get home--or save them for another trip, that's what we do with our U$. Don't plan on writing checks in Canada and forget traveler's checks--use debit cards and you can get cash at ATMs and in most decent size grocery and department stores--yes there are Walmarts even on the AK Hwy. Cell phones are fairly useless, even with a CDN plan, and the US ones too won't work too far out of Anchorage or Fairbanks (that was 7 years ago).

Public campgrounds we saw and stayed at anywhere on the AK Hwy and going to Yellowknife are a very nice typical SP/PP quality. However, your site--and the further north you get, the entire campground--will be dry. If the temp is above freezing and there is potable water, it'll be in an overhead tank that slowly gravity feeds into your tt. If there is a dumpsite, it too will be dry and you can only hope the previous guy didn't mess up. So you really need to manage fresh and waste water. We carry a mid size pail that fits under the drain--it pivots and can be pulled up a bit higher--and fill a larger pail to dump into the outhouse. Dishes are also washed in a pan and on board facilities are only for dire emergency. The black and grey tanks are not designed for travel, especially on rough roads. They are just screwed into the OSB floor and I'm not comfortable traveling anywhere with more than one night's worth of waste in them. The fresh tank is contained in a significant steel cage and is designed for travel while full. We used Trailer Life directory to pick Good Sam campgrounds that sounded decent just to get the services. Avoid private campgrounds that are not Good Sam. There's a whole different standard in the north and while we stayed at some very nice Good Sams, the worst ones by far are also on the AK Hwy. Bacon and bbq's attract bears--best to leave them at home unless it's an electric grill where you can actually clean it up and store it inside the tt. The sun does set, unless you're north of the Arctic Circle, but it never gets dark even at 3 am so you won't miss hydro or campground lighting and can also save battery power. Some people have trouble sleeping, but we were ok.

There are a couple of small town Walmarts in northern BC, but generally nothing but small town shopping between Grande Prairie, AB, Whitehorse, YT and Anchorage/Fairbanks. All of these have the full range of car dealers and at least some rv dealers as well. Gas is much cheaper in AB than anywhere else in Canada. Otherwise the prices go north with the hwy. Like anywhere else food and camping supplies have the best prices in the above cities--otherwise it's gas station stores and prices.

We did not drive to Prudhoe Bay, but did drive solo on Canada's equivalent Dempster Hwy to Inuvik. Reading through my 2005 Milepost, it sounds like the Dalton had at least some pavement even back then so may have more now. The Dempster is all gravel with 2 major ferry crossings and those are a huge hazard to towing. The ferry landings are soft gravel and we had to follow an 18 wheeler off one--the truck dropped so much going into ruts that the receiver clanged off the end of the ramp. The other hazard of gravel towing is flat tires. The locals told me, on a tandem axle trailer, the front tires throw rocks at the rear tires. This helps stick them into the treads and eventually leads to flat tires. Rock cuts are more likely not repairable compared to something like a clean nail puncture. The pump jockey I talked to at the one gas station on the Dempster said he almost never changed flats on the front axle.

Despite the dicey ferry crossings and lack of any pavement, I have a feeling the Dempster might be a little more civilized than the Dalton--there is a town of 3000 at the end of the Dempster and a full service center/restaurant/motel halfway up. The 05 Milepost recommends 2 mounted spares on the Dalton. For towing, that's 4 extra wheels and tires. We had one each and luckily didn't need either. There are lots of gas stations on the AK Hwy, but check the Dalton carefully to see how much you need to carry with you. On the Dempster there's one station half way at mp230. That alone would keep me from towing our 2499. I don't quite panic at 200 mi. in the south on well traveled roads, but on gravel, mountain passes, high rpm low gear, I wouldn't think of carrying enough gas to go 200 mi. There are always compromises in any RV and you work around them as best you can.

I wouldn't hesitate to take the 2499 on the AK Hwy--it's no better or worse than the road to Yellowknife--but I would cringe going through the construction sites. If you're determined to go up the Dalton, or even the Dempster, I'd seriously look at outfitting the tv with a camper shell and roughing it--store the tt somewhere in Fairbanks and drive solo--it might not be as comfy at night, but the days will sure be better and they're 24 hr. long

I thought I'd post this because it should have general interest, but feel free to pm me for more specific info like which route to take into or across Canada in the first place and other parks like Banff and Jasper. I can't think of any other active SOC members who have been to AK.

Henry

PS. If you're really interested in back country travel there is also a decent gravel alternative to the AK--Stewart/Cassiar Hwy 37 between Hwy 16 and the AK that has a very scenic and once in a lifetime side trip into Stewart, BC, almost at the AK Panhandle border. We haven't been on this road.

[henryj]

Forgot to add that the road to Stewart, BC is also the hwy access to Hyder, AK which is just across the border.

Henry

[Tod Osier]

Originally Posted by mike71654

The previous owner of the Sunline we now own took it to Alaska about 5 years ago. I must tell you when we bought our camper the lower 1 1/2 feet of the front end looked like somebody had been using it for target practice with a BB gun. The stone roads up there just beat it to death. When I spoke to the dealer we bought it from they said the previous owner did not have mud flaps on his tow vehicle when he went up there. I have since added a nice shiny piece of diamond plate that cover the front end and it looks great. Lesson learned...MUD FLAPS on the tow vehicle.

Yes, our has the same look thanks to all the gravel we have driven on already. The more aggressive the tire means the larger the stone it will hold and throw. Mud flaps do help.

[Tod Osier]

Thanks Henry, a lot of excellent information in the post (I'd add as usual). The Dalton isn't the only rough road that we will be on, just the most remote. We have a lot of plans for the out of the way places. I'm trying to decide what to do for spares, I'm for sure thinking a second spare for both, but not sure how it will play out. The guys that drive the Dalton frequently swear by load D and E tires as far as reducing blowouts, ours our "D" and are an aggresive off road tread, which gets even more rubber on there. We are OK on the Dalton for gas, and usually carry an extra 5 as a backup and for the generator, but for this trip may carry a couple more cans. Extraction in a serious failure will take serious money or time or both, but there is always risk there. We are going to look into our towing coverage. We are going up the Dalton to sight see, but also are giong to do a 10 day fly-in float trip on a remote river, so we would like our trailer up there before adn after, but if the road is beyone aweful, we have friends in Fairbanks that we can leave it with.

Thanks for the thoughts on campgrounds, that was information I had not seen or thought through. We will get a honey bucket for outhouses. We usually boondock and just hit campgrounds once a week to water, dump and fully recharge batteries, etc... We always run with stuff in the grey and black tanks, I understand the concerns, but I haven't ever seen a reason not to. In this day and age, there would be 15 warnings in the manual if it was a problem. Of course I try not to run on horribly rough road with full tanks. We carry quite a lot of extra water as well.

The suggestion on the Cassiar is a good one, I drove it about 15 years ago and it was spectacular. We took the road to Stewart/Hyder and spent the night there on the way from Whitehorse to Prince George.

I'm doing the trip up and back with just to the dogs, wife and kid are flying into and out of fairbanks.

I'm thinking of at least wet bolts for the springs as an upgrade.

Again thanks,

T

[Tod Osier]

Originally Posted by O Canada

Hey Tod. Are you heading up through my neck of the woods; Edmonton, Alberta?

I'm not sure the final route, but I'd be really surprised if it didn't include Edmonton.

Do you have a Sunline in Edmonton? That is far North and West for one!

[O Canada]

We purchased a 2007 T1950 in the spring of 2012. There is a dealer in Edmonton that used to sell Sunline, Outback RV. It's on the extreme east end of Edmonton, Hwy 16 east and Clover Bar road. I think they still have a few Sunline parts. Keep them in mind if you run into trouble in this area. I have not traveled further north than Fort St John, BC by vehicle. Roads must be decent as there are bus tours that head to Alaska from here. Good luck with your journey and let me know if I can help with any info.

[henryj]

Ted, have you seen the EZ Flex thread? It really isn't much more work to do the whole thing than just wet bolts. For the roads you're going on you should definitely take a grease gun. We put on 12,000 mi. going to AK so wet bolts should be greased at least 3 times.

JohnB and others had the rubber cushion on the EZ Flex crack, but mine are still ok after more than 3 years and about 20,000 mi.

Henry

[Tod Osier]

Originally Posted by henryj

Ted, have you seen the EZ Flex thread? It really isn't much more work to do the whole thing than just wet bolts. For the roads you're going on you should definitely take a grease gun. We put on 12,000 mi. going to AK so wet bolts should be greased at least 3 times.

JohnB and others had the rubber cushion on the EZ Flex crack, but mine are still ok after more than 3 years and about 20,000 mi.

Henry

Yes Henry, that was pretty much what I was thinking. It seems easy and woudl be a benefit if nothing more than just getting the wet bolts.

I just made the order to Dexter.

Thanks,

T

[JohnB]

Hi Tod,

I have not been to AK yet. Hope too some day.

I totally agree with the upgrade to the wet bolt kit. Odds are high your standard nylon bushings are worn through on some of them now. 10,000 miles is a lot for the nylon bushings. Your shackles may be worn too.

On the EZ flex, it will help on the hard shock bounces. My luck I actually had 3 of them. 2 replaced under warranty for cracks and excess compression until Dexter got the problem under control. Since I was one of the early ones to start using them they had a quality problem with the rubber supplier meeting spec. The last I talked to Dexter they stopped using that supplier and my last one had zero issues. And my axle weights are a lot more than yours. I would recommend them without issue if you are buying a new one. Ideal is get one from Dexter direct verses some dealer who has them on the shelf that may a few years old.

Another upgrade is shocks. I added my own but I had enclosed tanks and a slide drive to work around that you will not have. See here if you have not.
Adding Shock Absorbers - Sunline SR model

While I went with the higher grade shock from Monroe, Dexter sells trailer shock kits with the brackets.

The EZ Flex and the shocks do different things. The EZ flex helps reduce the 1st hard bounce and heavy vibration into the camper. The jolt of a bump so to speak.

The shock stops the multi cycle oscillation of the suspension after the bump. On my long camper the suspension oscillation was very noticeable. I would go over a bump, even with the EZ flex and I would look in the side mirrors to see a 4 to 6 cycles flex of the entire camper. Flexing up and down until the oscillation rung itself out. The term whipping in the wind... sure fits. I just did not like that long camper flex up and down like that with the many miles we put on it. The siding, the trailer frame, the camper wood frame, all doing a lot of flexing up and down. Not good for the long term.

Once I went to shocks it was amazing. You would hit the bump, the camper make one cycle and that was it. And I mean nothing. It was amazing.

Larry, (Clarkdc) also added shocks on his T2499, shorter and lighter than my T310 and he said the same thing. One bump, one oscillation and that was it.

Granted your camper is shorter and lighter but I can still see it benefiting the camper and tires by having shocks. I myself now that I have them, will not have another camper without shocks and a rubber equalizer.

And yes, a fresh bearing repack is a good idea.

Good luck, take lots of pics and looking forward to your trip report.

John

[Tod Osier]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi Tod,

I have not been to AK yet. Hope too some day.

I totally agree with the upgrade to the wet bolt kit. Odds are high your standard nylon bushings are worn through on some of them now. 10,000 miles is a lot for the nylon bushings. Your shackles may be worn too.

On the EZ flex, it will help on the hard shock bounces. My luck I actually had 3 of them. 2 replaced under warranty for cracks and excess compression until Dexter got the problem under control. Since I was one of the early ones to start using them they had a quality problem with the rubber supplier meeting spec. The last I talked to Dexter they stopped using that supplier and my last one had zero issues. And my axle weights are a lot more than yours. I would recommend them without issue if you are buying a new one. Ideal is get one from Dexter direct verses some dealer who has them on the shelf that may a few years old.

Another upgrade is shocks. I added my own but I had enclosed tanks and a slide drive to work around that you will not have. See here if you have not.
Adding Shock Absorbers - Sunline SR model

While I went with the higher grade shock from Monroe, Dexter sells trailer shock kits with the brackets.

The EZ Flex and the shocks do different things. The EZ flex helps reduce the 1st hard bounce and heavy vibration into the camper. The jolt of a bump so to speak.

The shock stops the multi cycle oscillation of the suspension after the bump. On my long camper the suspension oscillation was very noticeable. I would go over a bump, even with the EZ flex and I would look in the side mirrors to see a 4 to 6 cycles flex of the entire camper. Flexing up and down until the oscillation rung itself out. The term whipping in the wind... sure fits. I just did not like that long camper flex up and down like that with the many miles we put on it. The siding, the trailer frame, the camper wood frame, all doing a lot of flexing up and down. Not good for the long term.

Once I went to shocks it was amazing. You would hit the bump, the camper make one cycle and that was it. And I mean nothing. It was amazing.

Larry, (Clarkdc) also added shocks on his T2499, shorter and lighter than my T310 and he said the same thing. One bump, one oscillation and that was it.

Granted your camper is shorter and lighter but I can still see it benefiting the camper and tires by having shocks. I myself now that I have them, will not have another camper without shocks and a rubber equalizer.

And yes, a fresh bearing repack is a good idea.

Good luck, take lots of pics and looking forward to your trip report.

John

Thanks John, I'll read up on the shocks, now would be the time to put them on. I don't think we get a whole lot of oscillation transmitting through the rig, but it may be one of those things that once you try it will be very obvious.

Here is a question for you on weight distribution and rough roads. We have a Reese HP dual cam. I have a good understanding of how the system works. Because the WD system links the truck and trailer, I've always been concerned that on very rough road that the WD puts excessive strain on the truck frame. One of the reasons we went with the T-1950 and a 1/2 ton is that the combo leaves a lot of room for towing with no WD. With no WD we get some squat for the TV (but it is visually OK, not nearly as bad as some rigs you see). I'd never tow on real road without WD. In practice we will pull the WD bars off if we encounter something like steep sided creek we need to cross or are cutting across off road to a camp site where the ground is not level and there is a lit of L-R torson or U-D bending between the TV and TT. If we are driving for miles and miles on rough gravel road, we often will add a link or two to the WD chains to "soften" up the connetion between truck and trailer. I have looked and looked for information on how to manage rough road, but haven't seen anytihing written that is useful.

In practice, I understand the downside of doing something like adding a link to the WD chains on a really rough road. By doing that you are taking weight off the front wheels and possibly making steering (and braking) less responsive (these roads are usually gravel and having all the steering you can get is not a bad thing). We have had situations where we literally could not drive with the WD bars on the correct link because the washboard set up a harmonic between the trailer and the truck. One place I'm thinking of in Wyoming last summer we had to drive on a road about 30 miles that was OK to drive with the PU alone, but literally was not possible to drive with the WD properly set - the washboard was so bad that you couldnt' stand it - obviously that situation is putting a lot of stress on the TV and TT. One link added to the bars and it was like night and day, uncomfortable, but manageable and 2 was even better. In the end we drove with 2 links down form normal at about 30 mph. The issue I'm most concerned about is driving on forest service roads that can be quite rough, but you are also driving at a decent speed, like 40 mph and up since the roads are wide and designed for semi-trailer traffic. I would think this would apply to the rougher highways of the north as well. When I drove the Cassiar HWY in the 90's that was for sure the case.

Have you seen anything that would give some advice on managing such a situation or do you have any thoughts?

[JohnB]

Hi Tod,

I add some thoughts that may help or at least spark other ideas.

To find info about off roading, try the Toy hauler forum guys. When I was looking for info on flexing spring hangers I ran into them talking about reinforcing the hangers on a brand new camper as when they go up and over humps/bump in the back country that heavy flexing plays havoc on the spring hangers. This group of campers needs to get the toys out in the middle of the secluded back country and then go have toy fun. They may offer some thoughts on WD in rough country.

The average TT or even TH running gear is very light duty to say the least so twisting spring hangers with a heavy camper going up, over and around can really flex them into permanent deformation.

The WD hitch and rough roads. What you where describing I have experienced in our present rig. Except this is on the highway. Every year when I head back to NYS I go through the toll booth on I90 on the NYS thruway heading east into Buffalo where it turns into toll free zone. Exit 50 something. After about a 5 minute drive I hit concrete road stretch for about a mile or more that sets my truck off into non stop bucking. And it for sure is very uncomfortable to the point dangerous. After 3 years of trying to figure this out I have found if I slow to 50 mph it stops. 52 mph and it starts right back up again. Lucky me I have found the natural frequency of my truck wheel base and suspension with the camper on the back. This effect left let go at high speed it will do damage.

I have a SOC buddy in Rochester who pulls this same stretch of road with a Chevy 2500HD and it sets his truck off into this too. His camper is 2 foot shorter and the truck may be slighter shorter. His suspension is a little softer than mine and his loaded TW is lighter than mine yet that bad section of road will set it off.

So your wash board road may be this on steroids. Lowering the speed can help if it is an option. Loosening up the WD and slowing down may be the option to get past this section. Now that is not a blanket statement as there are some things to check.

Your truck receiver, what is the Weight Carrying rating? Meaning not using WD. If your loaded tongue weight is over the Weight Carrying limit then this is a heads up to watch out for. Running with no WD and overrunning the Weight Carrying limit of the receiver can play great havoc on the receiver. Many are only 500# some 350# rated without WD. Your rating may be in the truck owners manual. The older Toyota's never had a sticker on the receiver, I do not know if your 2011 does.

Here is a Reese receiver that was suppose to be for your truck.
http://www.reeseprod.com/content/dow...ion/N44568.pdf

If you need to upgrade theirs is 600# in weight carrying mode and only 800 in WD mode. I know the older Tundras had a I think 750# in WD mode and about 1/2 that in WC mode. But the newer trucks may have a higher rating.

Washboard road towing a camper with a WD hitch or even with out is not simple one. Lowering the speed gets to the heart of the issue. I do not know if running with no WD is good thing for extended time. While you may not feel it in the truck, the receiver is the shock absorber. They really flex hard and full stroke in this situation.

If you want to add hardware to help the problem, this Air Safe receiver is made to do what you are after and using the WD.

Class VI | Air Hitch by AirSafe Hitch Technology

They make a few sizes, this one is good for 8,000# trailer, however I have not found that one on the Air Safe site.
Air Safe Receiver Hitch, 8,000 lbs. - $510.00

I have heard of some folks using them and they have been positive reviews. I have never seen one up close.

If you get one, please give a report and pics.

Hope this helps

John