Tractor Swap

[JohnB]

Hi Folks

Since us Sunliner’s talk about most anything we are up to… here is my son and I's latest project that completed today with him taking his home and bringing mine back.... And I might add that this has been consuming my Sunline mod habit big time….

Here is the quick back ground. This spring son and fiancee buy an new home on 5 acres. He had a 1920 house (aka money pit) and was tired of fixing it. So now he has a year 2000 modular on 5 acres out in the country. He was for sure in the right place at the right time and is only paying slightly over his city home (money pit) in mortgage.

So now that he has a lot of lawn…. He asks me what kind of tractor should he be looking for. Gave him some suggestions and he finds one. A 1967 Ford 3000 gas tractor. We went and looked at it, it was not beat, at least on the outside and it ran sort of OK and did not smoke in the sellers yard at least. Was sitting in a barn for the last 10 years as the folks stopped farming years ago.

Son gets it home, uses it for a whopping 4 hours mowing his lawn (aka field), it is then blowing blue smoke like heck out the breather pipe, oh boy number 1, then poof It starts spewing oil out of the bell housing….



He calls me, tells me and the 1st thing I say, “Shut it Off”…. He did already, he put 3 quarts of oil in it and drives it back to his shed… I tell him come get mine and drop yours off here at the house. I’ll see what I can do with it. This was April 24th….. And today I got mine back, YEH!!!!

See here today when he came to give me mine back and take his home. Mine is the one on the left with the fork lift on the back




His is a 1967 Ford 3000 and mine is a 1983 Ford 3600. Same model just 16 years of being newer and the diesel in place of the gas job. Oddly enough I grew up as a kid on the farm operating my Uncle Arts same 1967 Ford 3000.... talk about flash back listening to that engine run...


What had happened was he blew out the rear main crankshaft seal. It had been leaking a long time ago by the sludge in the clutch housing but sitting in the barn for the last 10 years it must of rotted some. Then working it again, it let loose. Well what started out as not too bad a job ended up turning into a full blown engine job, clutch overhaul, transmission input shaft rebuild and a front axle pivot rebuild…. But it is in top shape now!!!! It will last him the rest of his life time and then some…. And I'm glad I was able to help him through this. Just because your kids grow up and move out does not mean you stop worrying about them....


If you want to see the progress see this slide show. See in reverse order. Select reverse order. It will fit the sequence better. Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket


Hope you find this interesting.

John

[Poppy & Nana]

You are a good man John B!

[JohnB]

Thanks Kathy

Yes kids, even at age 27... parents still want to see them succeed. They never put that stuff in the parents handbook... Plus in this case I like doing these things.

What a story, he asks me for help on what to get, I even go with him to check it out and then poof in 4 hours time it breaks big time... At this point no sense getting ticked over it, just need to fix it... The good news is he actually bought it cheap for this size of machine. Even though for the new parts and machine shop work he ended up putting another $900 into it, he now has new running 47 year work horse.

It is amazing the used tractor market it a lot bigger then I ever thought. And the parts places to sell stuff for them is now all on line too. You can buy a 1950 tractor today for about 2 to 3 times what it cost new in 1950... and there is a demand for them complete with many many online tractor forums. It's like there is a forum for just about anything now a days.

[Viking]

John,
Once a parent, always a parent, - but just admit it John, - you enjoyed the heck out of this project!
Roar

[GoodoleBob]

Oh boy John, That was no small task! The ole "Hey Dad, the motor has a skip in it" is probably the nicest thing he could say to you. You are a natural born fixer/builder/engineer/problem solver, and the ultimate neighbor, father, husband, and camping buddy too.

Few of us can do the work you seem so completely comfortable with. I wish I was one of them, but I'm far away from such capability.

I recall how my older brother John and I went in on a rusty wreck of a 1939 Ford coupe back in the late fifties. We figured if we spent every weekend and our collective monies (small dollars) that soon we'd have it fully restored and ready for automotive fame. We soon discovered we were lots better at taking it apart than putting it together.

The experience did help us both understand the value of good tools and how they’re used however, and we have remained a couple grease monkeys in the half century that's past. I still would not do what you do nevertheless...unless you just want it taken apart that is…

Exceptional Work as always!

Bob

[Al in PA]

John:

Fantastic job! I really enjoyed your photos. Those 3000 Fords are great tractors. Your son is fortunate to have one in such fine condition; and at a fraction of the price of a new compact diesel. That tractor should be good for a lifetime: I know mine will outlast me. Once you purchase a nice piece of land in the country, you soon discover how much you need a tractor, mower, snowplow, etc. The more implements you accumulate, the more you appreciate their versatility. The more work it does for you, the more time you have to go camping.

[JohnB]

Roar, Yes I did enjoy doing this. The simplicity of the older engines makes it easier too. All my tools fit… I have not had to rebuild an engine in over 20 years since I left NY and stopped farming. It was good to do it again and hear that baby fire right off in about 3 to 4 revolutions. No OBD2 codes to follow or look up. In fact the most electronic thing I used was a timing light to tweak the distributor….

Bob, Gee thanks for the kind words. Yes I do like working with my hands and head and helping others. Since the addition of TT’s in my life… I have found a new outlet for hands on. We all have out hobbies and as long as your enjoying it, it’s fun.

Taking stuff apart…..LOL. That brings back memories. I can hear my mother now, “John your always taking stuff apart” Which was true in my pre-teen years. Interesting what’s in side and how it works. For Christmas presents I remember one year Uncle Art got me some 2 x 4’s, furring strips and nails. I was in hog heaven!!! Was about 11 I think then. Then Mom got me a small tool kit. Super Wow!! Then I advanced to bigger stuff… LOL. And now look at me…

We have many talented folks here on SOC in all ways of life. Seeing their work is amazing to me too and we all pic up something from them. A great Group!!!

Al, Thanks for the good words. Yes I grew up on a Ford 3000. Hearing that unique 3 cylinder engine sound brought back many memories like it was yesterday. One tough tractor for it’s size. And the governor on the thing is amazing. If you try and kill it, just push the clutch in and it comes right back alive. Attachments, I brought many with me from NY. My son now has about 1/4 of them on his new property fixing up the landscape. No need to buy 2 of most things, I heck I’ll never wear them out nor him either. When I moved out here to OH I was thinking of trading my 3600 in on a compact diesel. Well after the sticker shock set in for a machine 1/3 as big…. I just bought new flatter tread front tires over the center rib ag tires and mow lawn with it. All at 4 to 5 mph 6 foot across. So do you have a 3000 as well? They are a great setup.

John

[frank]

Nice work, John! Good timing too, I was just wonder if you had gotten that back together.

If we manage to find some land here soon, I'm sure there will be one of those in my future as well. Although I'm lost with a carb, might have to swap it over to EFI

The 3 cylinder is pretty neat, I'd think it makes quite a bit of torque.

Originally Posted by JohnB

Taking stuff apart…..LOL. That brings back memories. I can hear my mother now, “John your always taking stuff apart” Which was true in my pre-teen years. Interesting what’s in side and how it works. For Christmas presents I remember one year Uncle Art got me some 2 x 4’s, furring strips and nails. I was in hog heaven!!! Was about 11 I think then. Then Mom got me a small tool kit. Super Wow!! Then I advanced to bigger stuff… LOL. And now look at me…

I can't tell you how many times I got in trouble for disassembling things. I have vivid memories of getting in a ton of trouble around age 5 for disassembling the old princess style phone that was in my parents bedroom. Oh, and the times I stuck car keys into the wall outlet, yes times, as in more than once. I think the final one was when I turned the wall black and totally freaked my mother out.

- Frank

[Al in PA]

John, yes I bought a 3000 after many years of using a 1947 8N. The extra horsepower, live hydraulics, and live pto had me spoiled in a heartbeat. I enjoy listening to that engine run, too. I mow 6 - 8 hours each week: Mowing and listening to that engine are very therapeutic stress relievers.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by frank

The 3 cylinder is pretty neat, I'd think it makes quite a bit of torque.

Mine the diesel version a 1982 ish version is 42 horse. Looked up the specs today, 118 ft lb of torque at 1,150 rpm. So it’s torque to HP ratio is pretty high. Or 2.8 times more torque then HP. And the engine maxes out at 2,100rpm. The gasser is very close.

Comparing that to the new war on truck engines. 2011 6.7 Duramax (397 hp and 765 ft lb of torque) or the new Ford 6.7 diesel....(390 hp and 735 ftlb of torque) The GM is 1.93 times the torque per HP and the Ford is 1.88 times. So while the new truck engines are in a totally different league, a 1967 tractor can create a lot of deep guts for it’s size. All brands are not this way but the Fords had really deep torque.

The gasser and diesel version has a 4.2" bore x 4.2" stroke and declared as a 175 cubic inch engine. The compression ratio is 7.75:1. The diesel, same bore and stroke has a compression ratio of 16.3:1 and declared a 42 hp

Remember the tractor is all gears. 4 mph is fast… but it’s doing a lot of work.

Originally Posted by frank

I can't tell you how many times I got in trouble for disassembling things. I have vivid memories of getting in a ton of trouble around age 5 for disassembling the old princess style phone that was in my parents bedroom. Oh, and the times I stuck car keys into the wall outlet, yes times, as in more than once. I think the final one was when I turned the wall black and totally freaked my mother out.

- Frank

Gee, you too....LOL.

Strange, I only did the key in the wall outlet once.... This was for sure the days before the kiddy proof plastic inserts we now have all over the house for the Grand kids. Just think, an entire product line was created for us creative kids...

And yes I needed to finish up the project. Winter is coming and wanted my shed back... Camping delayed some of the work and son had to find a machine shop for the head and regrind on the crank and a little bit of procrastination. That and waiting for all the parts to come in.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Al in PA

John, yes I bought a 3000 after many years of using a 1947 8N. The extra horsepower, live hydraulics, and live pto had me spoiled in a heartbeat. I enjoy listening to that engine run, too. I mow 6 - 8 hours each week: Mowing and listening to that engine are very therapeutic stress relievers.

Does your have the differential lock? When I told son what to look for, told him look for a new enough one that had the 2 stage clutch, differential lock , power steering and a spare auxiliary hydraulic valve. Pending year they did not all have those goodies.

Mowing 6 to 8 hours each week. You have some grass there. I use to do that by the acre but not so much any more. But I did bring some mowing toys with me. Here is my field mower. 10 foot wide. The mower is now about 38 years old and still going strong.





And at work last weekend. My neighbors like me. I do their field areas too when I do my back 2.5 acres. This year it went all season as I had no tractor.




And all done


For the front lawn... 3 acres worth I have a 6 foot finishing mower. That is my newest implement and it is 20 years old.


Growing up, mowing in the orchards was part of life. With both a sickle bar mower and the rotary. I remember well Uncle Art stating,(yelling) You can't mow under that tree any closer, there is a grass shy in the barn you can finish the job with... Well one learned how to weave in and out and mow right up to within 4 to 6" of the trunk and better not hit it or else...

Here is another toy. This one is older then I am... Uncle Art had it and when I moved out here I took it in pieces in the moving van. It has wood bearings on the spindles and they where shot. So I have invested $30 worth of oak turned wood bearings and some paint. Does all I need it too.


Plus a bunch of other stuff/implements. It is safe to say by circumstances I have more stuff then the average home owner.... May not be new but is does not cost me anything and gets the job done.

So what kinds of toys do you have?

[Al in PA]

John, yes mine has differential lock. It comes in handy, especially when plowing snow. I mow approximately 3 acres of lawn at my place and 2.5 acres for my next door neighbor each week. She's had some health problems and I've been helping her ever since her husband passed away three years ago. The large, open areas I do with the Ford and a 5' flail mower; the rest with a Wheelhorse garden tractor and a 42" deck.

Many of my implements were purchased when I only had the small Ford 8N, so the newer 3000 could handle larger attachments. I actually have two 3000's: The 1969 is an 8-speed with live hydraulics/pto that I use for mowing and gardening; the 1973 is 6-speed with a 6' bucket on front and a 7' blade on the back - used to plow snow and save my back (those front loaders are great). In addition to the flail mower, I have a 5' brush hog, 2-bottom 14" plow, 7' disc, 2-row planter, and a 3-pt log splitter. I haven't had a chance to use the splitter yet, so I'm anxious to see how it works with the tractor's hydraulics (slow I suspect).

When I moved to this small farm (13 acres) 27 years ago, the neighboring farmers used to get some good laughs watching me learn how to use the equipment. Two years ago, a young man went around to the different neighbors looking for someone to plow, disc, plant some deer plots for him. Between urban sprawl and retirements, it ends up I'm the only guy in the area that still owns a plow!

[GoodoleBob]

Originally Posted by Al in PA

The large, open areas I do with the Ford and a 5' flail mower; the rest with a Wheelhorse garden tractor and a 42" deck.

Well thank God one of you finally mentioned something more my size. I mow and plow with my trusty 1986 Wheelhorse 12HP 8 speed using that same 42" deck. The cast iron Kohler motor has been extra reliable.


Also since the matter of electrical plugs was brought up let me explain a technique I perfected as a grammer school lad. It's simple really...take one of your Dad's metal tie clips (remember those) and clip it accross the two blades of the toaster plug. Wait until no ones watching...then plug it in the wall receptacle....if you've waited until it's dark outside...the resulting effect with be quite startling, as well as completely annoying for everyone else....

Bob


Bob

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Al in PA

When I moved to this small farm (13 acres) 27 years ago, the neighboring farmers used to get some good laughs watching me learn how to use the equipment. Two years ago, a young man went around to the different neighbors looking for someone to plow, disc, plant some deer plots for him. Between urban sprawl and retirements, it ends up I'm the only guy in the area that still owns a plow!

Hi Al

Yes those with a plow, the numbers are dwindling. Back home in NY the entire road I lived on was farms. We where in the heart of Macintosh country. And I might add a 1/3rd of the road was related to me.... Well, between everyone passing on or moving out there is only 1 farmer left period....

That picture of the 3600 with this disk on the back was taken after my neighbor needed him lawn smoothed out and I was the only one with even a tractor. When I moved here, (20 years ago) I in was in farming country with the exception of a hand full of homes on 5 acre lots that one of the main farmers split up. Well the 500 acre soy bean field across the street sold, it now has at least 350 high end homes on it... my taxes went up... So while I'm not in commercial farming any more, other then the rancher down the road I may to the only one left with a plow and disk...

The toys (implements) I kept/acquired here on OH. 7 foot drag spring tooth harrow, 6 foot 3 point disk, 3 point 2 bottom plow, 2 row 3 point cultivator, planting row V plow, 3 point lifting forks, 7 foot 3 point rear blade (dirt and snow), 3 point scoop, 6 foot finishing mower, 10 foot field mower and a 6 x 8 utility trailer (road ready). Enough to still do large gardening, anything I want around the house and deal with the drive way.

So you have 2, 3000's. Cool! Yes those front end loaders are handy. I went the cheap route with the 3 point rear scoop. The log splinter, well yes slow but maybe not too bad. But the Ford with the front end loader may have a larger hydraulic pump. I use to have a full fork lift on the back of mine. Was a mast off an old Clark fork lift converted. The main cylinder went up OK, not as fast as my Uncle's JD 2020 but his was setup with on a front end loader and they had 2 hydraulic pumps, one boosting the other. Regardless of speed, your splitter will beat swinging the sledge

Your 69 3000 must be really close to my sons 67. A good machine.

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by GoodoleBob

Well thank God one of you finally mentioned something more my size. I mow and plow with my trusty 1986 Wheelhorse 12HP 8 speed using that same 42" deck. The cast iron Kohler motor has been extra reliable.


Also since the matter of electrical plugs was brought up let me explain a technique I perfected as a grammer school lad. It's simple really...take one of your Dad's metal tie clips (remember those) and clip it accross the two blades of the toaster plug. Wait until no ones watching...then plug it in the wall receptacle....if you've waited until it's dark outside...the resulting effect with be quite startling, as well as completely annoying for everyone else....

Bob

Bob, yes those cast iron Kolhers are a good engine. I gave my son the 7 hp Wheel Horse I had as a kid and it is still going. I think that lawn tractor is a 65 or 68 year. Not too bad a service ah!

H'mm seems you where more ingenious with the wall outlet.... The tie clip trick. H'mm learning to weld early? Must confess I never thought of that one. However my brother did do a good job of messing up Mom's kitchen ceiling with his chemistry set... Poof! After that episode there was no more chemistry in the house....

[MACK C-85]

Oh, and the times I stuck car keys into the wall outlet, yes times, as in more than once. I think the final one was when I turned the wall black and totally freaked my mother out.

Strange, I only did the key in the wall outlet once....

Also since the matter of electrical plugs was brought up let me explain a technique I perfected as a grammer school lad. It's simple really...take one of your Dad's metal tie clips (remember those) and clip it accross the two blades of the toaster plug. Wait until no ones watching...then plug it in the wall receptacle....if you've waited until it's dark outside...the resulting effect with be quite startling, as well as completely annoying for everyone else....

H'mm seems you where more ingenious with the wall outlet.... The tie clip trick. H'mm learning to weld early? Must confess I never thought of that one. However my brother did do a good job of messing up Mom's kitchen ceiling with his chemistry set... Poof! After that episode there was no more chemistry in the house....

Humm....you guys prove once again that Firefighter/Paramedic will always be an indemand job choice!!!

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by MACK C-85

Humm....you guys prove once again that Firefighter/Paramedic will always be an indemand job choice!!!

Mack LOL

OK time to tell, So "when and how" did you discover electricity???

All kidding aside, we will always need the professional services of the guys and gals in the red truck. We really do not want to live without them.

[MACK C-85]

OK time to tell, So "when and how" did you discover electricity???

My beloved late uncle had me (closely supervised, of course) sweating coppper and helping him with hvac systems when I was still in elementary school, so I had my early curiousity satisfied without "exploring" on my own. If I had a day off from school, I could usually be found with him somewhere changing out a furnace and air conditioner!!

My dad was the same way with firearms, they both believed that if you introduce a kid early it removes the mystery, and therefore the desire for unsupervised curiousity.

I have both an Associate of Arts Degree and a Bachelors Degree, but I can guarantee you my dad and uncle were proudest when I completed my Electrician's Apprenticeship.

Mack

And to Un-hijack the thread.....real tractors are RED:

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by MACK C-85

And to Un-hijack the thread.....real tractors are RED:

Congrats on your Electrician's Apprenticeship!. Cool!!!

Now to the color of real tractors.... We had red and gray (Massey Ferguson) all green, (John Deere) blue (Ford), yellow (Caterpillar). And one uncle even had a deep forest green (Oliver). However the John Bean speed sprayer was all red. And after thinking about it so was the Chevy 1 ton stake body trucks... So red is a good color.

That little Farm All of your wife's is a good little tractor. I remember the high pitched sound of the engine as our neighbor had one. IRRC it was a little 4 cylinder.

They are all good when they run.... At least that is what Uncle Art use to say.

John