Toilet/Black Tank Issue

Buffalo Man · 08-07-2014, 03:14 PM

Hi guys and gals,

I haven't seen this problem yet on any message boards. I went to take out the trash this morning and noticed a big wet spot under the camper in the area of the black tank. Oh No, what next!

Last week I finally got around to replacing the City Water Inlet Check Valve and that fixed my leak that I had when city water was hooked up. I was a happy camper.

Now this. I went under the camper and it was leaking around the clamps that hold the black tank in place. It's leaking a little in the rear but a constant drip in the front of the tank.

I went inside the camper and looked in the toilet and it was full of water all the way to the top of the toilet. I flushed and all went down and noticed the black tank was almost full of water. What would cause that? I also heard the pump pumping away. I noticed the pump light was on. I apparently had left it on from a couple of days before.

My question is, what would cause the toilet to fill up with water? I figured that leaving the pump on was the culprit, but I have read where the pump is an "on demand" pump where it only runs when you turn on a spigot. So, maybe I have a leak in the water system some place and this causes the pump to activate? Don't know!

On the black tank being almost full of water, I'm pretty sure I only left a couple of inches or so of water in it. I could be that I put in more than I thought. I added water by holding down on the flush lever for a few minutes. Can't really remember how long.

Oh, have not been hooked up to City Water since I replaced the inlet valve. This is happening with the fresh water tank in use only. This is a 1992, Sunline Saturn T-1700.

Any thoughts, or prayers, would be appreciated

Howard

MACK C-85 · 08-07-2014, 03:29 PM

Slow leak in toilet valve would be my first check, since it looks like the only place with extra water is the black tank.

bunjin · 08-07-2014, 03:42 PM

Having the pump switch on when not needed is IMHO asking for trouble ( I have gone back on a number of occasions to make sure I shut off....see end of this post) . There is a thread here that tells what happened to Johnb and myself leaving pump on.

I think you have a pressure/vacuum leak, which is telling the pump to run. In time you have been filling up your toilet/black tank. Hopefully not to the point that water leaked out of the toilet onto the floor, rather the slide valve leaked down at a rate to fill the black tank instead.

I would first get water levels well under control in tanks. Then have water in the fresh water tank and have pump on. Have all faucets, etc. closed tight. Pay attention to the pump cycling or not. May be a slow long process. Pay very close attention to valves and lines feeding the toilet as my guess is that is where you are letting water pass.

Check my albums and look at the one where I replaced parts due to a plumbing failure in the toilet valve assembly. I had left my pump on and the pressure on the old plastic finally caused it to burst. Lucky I was in the trailer at the time it burst as water was coming out very fast.

Just as a side note: You do use a water regulator on your city hook up right? City pressure can be to much for a trailer's plumbing, esp. as it gets older and/or the old plastic pipe, as it gets brittle with age.

Side note 2: city water hook up may show if toilet inlet valve is leaking water into the toilet.

jim44646 · 08-07-2014, 04:12 PM

If the flush valve is leaking then toilet would fill with water unless the flush door seal is also bad and allowing water to seep past. As for the black tank leak it could be so full that it's leaking around toilet seal or where stink pipe goes into black tank. It definitely points to toilet, That's the only thing that feeds black tank. All else goes into gray tank

mainah · 08-07-2014, 04:13 PM

If you a connected to city water it is a real good ideal to put a pressure regulator inline with your hose. The city water systems are generally far better pressure than your camper needs or wants. The regulators are set to about 40 psi. The city water can exceed 65 psi or more so there maybe nothing more that an over pressure issue causing the toilet valve to leak into the toilet. Try it with out the city hook and just the pump and see what happens.

Buffalo Man · 08-08-2014, 01:28 PM

Hi,
I want to thank everyone who posted with all the insightful information. I've decided to go ahead and replace the inlet valve and might as well do the seal as well.

Now that the pump is off, the toilet isn't taking on anymore water and appears to be normal. This is after sitting overnight. The leaking has also stopped, after turning off the pump and releasing all the pressure from the lines.

Mack C-85: It sounds like what you said. Looks like I'm in for a fun job.

bunjin:

Quote:

"I think you have a pressure/vacuum leak, which is telling the pump to run. In time you have been filling up your toilet/black tank. Hopefully not to the point that water leaked out of the toilet onto the floor, rather the slide valve leaked down at a rate to fill the black tank instead."

This makes a lot of sense. I believe I'll replace the toilet valve and seal and hope for the best. Yes I do use a regulator when I hook up to city water. I'm hoping that the pipes do not need replacing. Thanks

jim44646: From the different posts here, it sounds like the toilet valve and possibly the toilet gasket/seal. It's hard to say if it's overfull or not. It's not leaking around the toilet. No water on bathroom floor or anywhere inside of trailer. I put a measuring stick in there this morning and it showed about 3" of water in the black tank. so it wasn't as full as I thought. I'm new to all this, so i guess my eyeball guesstimate wasn't accurate.

Thanks

Mainah: All this was taking place while on the fresh water tank. Not hooked up to the city water when this happened. I just bought a "Valterra A01-1122VP Lead-Free High Flow Water Regulator" and use it faithfully.

Thanks

I have a Thedford Aqua Magic SL, I believe it is the Low profile. Would anyone know the exact terminology of these parts (toilet valve and seal)? I'm a little confused on what parts to order and would anyone have any part numbers?

Is there a way to keep the smell in the tank, while it is being worked on or do you just John Wayne it?

Thanks again everyone for the great information. Howard

jim44646 · 08-08-2014, 02:07 PM

Take the 2 toilet flange bolts loose. disconnect water line remove toilet shove a rag in the hole and take it out side. Hose ii off well. no odor

bunjin · 08-08-2014, 02:33 PM

Go to the link below. Look at your model and parts. Then take part # and cost compare it with Amazon, etc.

Also check my album on a step by step replacement. Your model will be similar in the approach I believe.

Thetford RV Toilets - PPL Motor Homes

jim44646 · 08-08-2014, 05:27 PM

("I know a lot about nothing and nothing about a lot" )

Me Too

Buffalo Man · 08-09-2014, 10:41 PM

jim44646 - Great, Sounds like a plan. Thanks

bunjin - I looked at your album, good write-up. Yours is a little newer I think, but you're probably right, concept should be close, hopefully!

Also, Great Link, Thanks, Howard

PanamaRvers · 08-10-2014, 03:00 PM

There is a lot of good information here. I learned a lesson this week-end as well. While out camping the first night we had no issues. Woke up the next morning and used the bathroom. Heard a small leak under the sink. I guess some how while traveling the fitting to the sink loosen up. I was lucky, all I had to do was tighten the fitting. This could have been worse if I had been away with the pump on. Best of luck to you Howard. I hope there is no major damage to the floor and frame and you are able to find the cause and repair it easily.

Buffalo Man · 08-11-2014, 09:42 PM

Panama: Great story, I like endings like that! I hope mine ends as well. My parts are on the way. Howard

**JohnB** · 08-15-2014, 11:02 AM

Good post with a lot of good info. I'll add some other tips.

When using the on board water pump, when the pump is "on"

If you heard it start running and building pressure and "you" did not use any water, then.

1. You might have a leak, faucet drip, toilet fill drip, hot water heater safety relief valve drip, fresh water inlet valve leak, low point drains leak or the worst, a plumbing leak inside the camper are the normal suspects. (an old dried up grommet washer, loose fitting, cracked pipe etc)

2. If you cannot find any leaks, there is one leak that is harder to find. This is inside the pump itself. It leaks past the check valves in the pump and blows out pressure back into the fresh tank. This happens if dirt gets in the pump, and it does not take much or the diaphragm goes bad.

No. 1 is more common, however No. 2 does happen from time to time.

Point: If the pump runs and you are not drawing water, the pressure it pushing water somewhere else. Need to start the hunt ASAP.