Co / Propane alarm - Page 2

**Sunline Fan** · 08-02-2017, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Good evening,

Thanks for the info. It would be a lot easier to install it on the base of the dinette. That would mean it would not be on its own fuse though. The converter and breaker box is in the back of the camper. The dinette is in the front but I don't think I have much of a choice since options are limited.

I am glad I asked because I probably would have installed it too high. I had considered a plugin but we only have three receptacles as it is.

Thanks,
Tommie

Hi Tommie,

Yeah, the typical Sunline installation is about 6" from the floor or so. You do want it down low. The disadvantage is that the odors from your feet can sometimes set it off, which makes it tough if you are sitting at the dinette, but as long as you are a few inches away from it, it should be fine.

Actually, I think the best spot for you would be on the ODS (opposing door side) dinette bench end, the surface that the bathroom door opens up into. I'd put a small rubber bumper there so the door doesn't smash into the detector and hit the test button, but on the end should prevent feet from getting near it for long periods. It should also cause about the least impact to your storage compartment under there. Sunline never put a guard on the back of it, but you could if you want, so something doesn't bump into the back of it.

I'd think you could put an in-line fuse in no problem. Mine has a 1 amp fuse, so it doesn't need a lot.

FWIW, I have the original (functioning) smoke detector on the ceiling of the trailer, but I also have a new combo smoke/CO detector that I just set out when I stay in the trailer. I didn't want to replace the original one for originality reasons, but those combo units are good options now to handle the other two worries when camping.

Thomascine · 08-02-2017, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunline Fan

Actually, I think the best spot for you would be on the ODS (opposing door side) dinette bench end, the surface that the bathroom door opens up into. I'd put a small rubber bumper there so the door doesn't smash into the detector and hit the test button, but on the end should prevent feet from getting near it for long periods. It should also cause about the least impact to your storage compartment under there. Sunline never put a guard on the back of it, but you could if you want, so something doesn't bump into the back of it.

That side of the dinette is where I was thinking. That is the side where I installed the USB socket charger so it will be really easy to tie into the wiring. I have a bunch of inline fuses so I can fuse it. I was thinking about what JohnB mentioned about having it on its on fuse so that if something else blew a fuse, it would not affect the LP detector but I don't think I have that option or it would not be easy. Installing it at the dinette is better than not having it at all. Is it possible or even safe to run it to the battery? I have a cutoff switch installed so that the battery would not get drained when it is not in use.

**JohnB** · 08-02-2017, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Is it possible or even safe to run it to the battery? I have a cutoff switch installed so that the battery would not get drained when it is not in use.

You can go direct to the battery area but a few things need to be in place.

You are right, the tie in needs to be "after" the cut off switch on the side heading to the fuse panel so the switch shuts down the power to the LP detector as well. If not, the battery will get drained in about 2 to 3 weeks in storage. Not good.

If you take power direct from the battery, ideally you install a fuse near the start of the wire by the battery cut off switch. By picking this end this helps protect the wire itself in case something shorts the wire on the way to the detector. You are hooking up to a very powerful battery and the fuse needs to pop quick at the source and not burn up the wire.

That said, there are some other options.

You are right, having the detector on a combination power line is not the best but it is better then not having it. In your case you have your illuminated volt meter to at least tell you the power is on. If you notice the volt display being off, then you know the LP detector is off too and to do something about it.

Another option to help the cause may be, is to fuse the volt meter socket area to less then the full current fuse at the fuse panel. Meaning if the fuse panel has 15 amp fuse on number 14 awg wire feeding this area, then put a 10 amp fuse in the volt meter socket system wiring. Then if the volt meter socket pulls more power, it will trip that fuse and leave the LP detector still powered. You still fuse in a small fuse to the detector ahead of the volt meter fuse. While this can work, I do not know if you have space for that fuse or if there are other things on that circuit other then the volt meter socket. And I do not know if this will limit your power at the volt meter socket enough to be a problem. Does the volt meter area draw more then 10 amps? Again, just options to help create the best solution for you.

Hope this helps

John

Thomascine · 08-02-2017, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Another option to help the cause may be, is to fuse the volt meter socket area to less then the full current fuse at the fuse panel. Meaning if the fuse panel has 15 amp fuse on number 14 awg wire feeding this area, then put a 10 amp fuse in the volt meter socket system wiring. Then if the volt meter socket pulls more power, it will trip that fuse and leave the LP detector still powered. You still fuse in a small fuse to the detector ahead of the volt meter fuse. While this can work, I do not know if you have space for that fuse or if there are other things on that circuit other then the volt meter socket. And I do not know if this will limit your power at the volt meter socket enough to be a problem. Does the volt meter area draw more then 10 amps? Again, just options to help create the best solution for you.

Hope this helps

John

Thanks JohnB,

Right now, the USB socket charger has inline 10 amp fuse at the device. It is connected on the same wire as the dinette light. The outside light will also be connected to that line. I used the wire that had been tucked away in the wall. I hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Tommie

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**JohnB** · 08-02-2017, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Thanks JohnB,

Right now, the USB socket charger has inline 10 amp fuse at the device. It is connected on the same wire as the dinette light. The outside light will also be connected to that line. I used the wire that had been tucked away in the wall. I hope this makes sense.

Yes, that makes a lot of sense and you are already part way there to limiting the issues. If all that is left on the circuit is 2 light bulbs, odds are now low that something in a light bulb will blow the main fuse for this circuit. Not impossible, but low. It is a power draw device like the charger plug and what you plug into it that may trip it's 10 amp fuse but possibly not the main fuse back in the fuse panel.

Is this a 15 amp circuit with no. 14 awg wire starting at the fuse panel? If so, now hearing what you already in place on the USB socket fused, tying into this line for the detector is becoming a very attractive solution.

Hope this helps

John

jim44646 · 08-03-2017, 05:37 AM

While on the subject of LP/propane detectors. What is the lifespan of a LP/propane detector. Seeing the last Sunline was manufactured in 2007 I'm sure all of our propane detectors are in need of being updated.

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jim44646 · 08-03-2017, 05:50 AM

In doing some reading. The answer to my question. LP/propane detectors should be replaced every 5 years.

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**JohnB** · 08-03-2017, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim44646

While on the subject of LP/propane detectors. What is the lifespan of a LP/propane detector. Seeing the last Sunline was manufactured in 2007 I'm sure all of our propane detectors are in need of being updated.

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Hi Jim,

I recall we had a thread a while back on this. I found it here.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tor-15196.html

You can read the not good situation that accidentally happened and that their detector did not work like it should. The second page of the post talked about the newer Atwood units and they even say right on the front of them to replace them at 84 months (7 years) of power up. They also now make a combo LP and carbon monoxide alarm.

And yes, since Sunline stopped making all campers in Oct/Nov 2006, any detector in a Sunline seems to be out of date unless it has been replaced by the owner along the way.

Good reminder by your inquiry.

Thanks for being curious!

John

Thomascine · 08-03-2017, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Is this a 15 amp circuit with no. 14 awg wire starting at the fuse panel? If so, now hearing what you already in place on the USB socket fused, tying into this line for the detector is becoming a very attractive solution.
John

To be honest, I am not sure where the wire is running back to. The wire is feeding from the roof area down to the dinette light and back out to the USB socket and I tied in for the front utility light. There is another light in that area just outside the dinette area. It is possible that the wire feed coming from the roof is coming from that other light first. Just not sure right now. It is 14 awg wire though.

Thanks,
Tommie

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**JohnB** · 08-03-2017, 08:41 AM

Hi Tommie,

The good news, you have no. 14 awg wire. That allows a 15 amp circuit. The wire coming down from the ceiling is somewhat normal to the front wall. They just routed it that way as it is easier to get the wire there. My T1950 has some that way.

Coming back to the main intent is to power up the LP detector "ideally" from it's own power source to help make sure it always has power. While this is the ideal goal, it may not always be doable so you go to the next best thing and lower the odds something will blow the power fuse.

The USB charger has a smaller fuse of 10 amps and this should be plenty for what you are plugging in there. It should trip before the main 15 amp fuse in most situations.

Next hooked up to that same circuit are lights. If they are the older incandescent lights, they can be 1.2 amps each bulb. If they are LED, they are in the 0.25 amp range. Light bulbs sockets have low odds of creating a short to blow a fuse. If you can change the bulbs to LED this again lowers the odds of creating an over-current situation to blow the main fuse.

Now what else "might" be on that circuit? Do you have a bath room fan? See if it is on that circuit. Since the wire comes from the ceiling, it might be on that circuit. Odds are higher the fan may create a problem then a light bulb. Ideally you can back into what else may be on that circuit. Check the fridge light too, never know if the fridge is on this circuit.

This is all about lowering the odds of blowing the main fuse and not knowing about it. Even a direct power line has a chance of an issue, something eats into the wire or other event but a direct line lowers the odds. The good news, you have that voltage display that tells you all the time power is on that line. This is better then most situations as you can see it. Generally a blown fuse is only found when the owner goes on a search to see why something does not work.

Maybe try and figure out what else is on the circuit by pulling the fuse and figure out and confirm what else does not work. You sort of have to back into it. Then as long as the loads are small enough, and that they are not prone to fuse trips, then you can use that circuit for the LP detector. You many find you need to lower the 10 USB charging fuse to something smaller if needed. You have taken actions to lower the odds of a blown main fuse and not know about it and this really helps. This is still a much better situation then you ever had with no detector. And keep and eye out for the voltage display that when it's on, life is good. When it is off, figure out why.

Hope this helps

John

**Sunline Fan** · 08-03-2017, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi Jim,

I recall we had a thread a while back on this. I found it here.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tor-15196.html

You can read the not good situation that accidentally happened and that their detector did not work like it should. The second page of the post talked about the newer Atwood units and they even say right on the front of them to replace them at 84 months (7 years) of power up. They also now make a combo LP and carbon monoxide alarm.

And yes, since Sunline stopped making all campers in Oct/Nov 2006, any detector in a Sunline seems to be out of date unless it has been replaced by the owner along the way.

Good reminder by your inquiry.

Thanks for being curious!

John

Granted it really isn't something worth risking, but I wonder if those seven years are seven years of being powered up, or just seven years of existing once powered up?

I've never had a problem with these detectors before, but I did in this '97. Since the trailer had been set up as a seasonal trailer every summer for many years, it was probably plugged in a lot and the detector was powered on for probably seven years worth of time now. It would be very different to say my '07, which has been powered up for no more than like two months total.

**JohnB** · 08-03-2017, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunline Fan

Granted it really isn't something worth risking, but I wonder if those seven years are seven years of being powered up, or just seven years of existing once powered up?

I've never had a problem with these detectors before, but I did in this '97. Since the trailer had been set up as a seasonal trailer every summer for many years, it was probably plugged in a lot and the detector was powered on for probably seven years worth of time now. It would be very different to say my '07, which has been powered up for no more than like two months total.

I "think" it means, 7 years elapsed time from when it is first powered up then the sensor starts degrading. Meaning, if it is stored in the box and not used, it does not count. But once it is activated, then the 7 year time clock starts regardless of how long it was powered on.

EDIT 8-7-17 The above in red is not correct. Updating my mix up. The label reads 84 months from retail sale.
Meaning 7 years from when you bought regardless if you ever power it up

As to them not giving you a problem, true it may not be creating false alarms but don't know about how sensitive the unit is. Meaning, it may not sense weak gas fumes like it used to be able to when new. Think of it like trailer tires. It's not the miles towed or the tread worn, the rubber itself just plain breaks down over time.

**Sunline Fan** · 08-03-2017, 10:31 AM

Yeah, that's what I was fearing. Oh well. It's just a shame they changed the footprint of it, because retrofitting the new style in the old hole isn't so easy.

Thomascine · 08-03-2017, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Next hooked up to that same circuit are lights. If they are the older incandescent lights, they can be 1.2 amps each bulb. If they are LED, they are in the 0.25 amp range. Light bulbs sockets have low odds of creating a short to blow a fuse. If you can change the bulbs to LED this again lowers the odds of creating an over-current situation to blow the main fuse.
I am in the process of replacing all of the incandescent bulbs with LEDs. I am waiting for the rest of the replacement bulbs to be delivered. I should be good to go with this soon.

Now what else "might" be on that circuit? Do you have a bath room fan? See if it is on that circuit.
I do not have a bathroom fan yet but will in the future.

This is all about lowering the odds of blowing the main fuse and not knowing about it. Even a direct power line has a chance of an issue, something eats into the wire or other event but a direct line lowers the odds. The good news, you have that voltage display that tells you all the time power is on that line. This is better then most situations as you can see it. Generally a blown fuse is only found when the owner goes on a search to see why something does not work.
I am assuming that the "main fuse" is at the battery? Those wires are bundled together with zip ties. There are a couple of fuses there but I have not taken the time to look at it. If that is where the main fuse is, then I can take a look this evening.

Thanks,
Tommie

**JohnB** · 08-03-2017, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunline Fan

Yeah, that's what I was fearing. Oh well. It's just a shame they changed the footprint of it, because retrofitting the new style in the old hole isn't so easy.

I have a fix for that. Stay tuned. You can buy Atwood 35181 adapter plate if you can find it or use the old bezel plate and mount the new 36720 detector to it. I found a pic on how to do that this AM. Can't find the pic again...

**Sunline Fan** · 08-03-2017, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

I have a fix for that. Stay tuned. You can buy Atwood 35181 adapter plate if you can find it or use the old bezel plate and mount the new 36720 detector to it. I found a pic on how to do that this AM. Can't find the pic again...

I tried to find the adapter plate but couldn't, I was wondering if they discontinued it. Do you know a source for it? I'm not super happy with the patch plate I made, but it works.

I didn't want to modify the original bezel.

**JohnB** · 08-03-2017, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomascine

This is all about lowering the odds of blowing the main fuse and not knowing about it. Even a direct power line has a chance of an issue, something eats into the wire or other event but a direct line lowers the odds. The good news, you have that voltage display that tells you all the time power is on that line. This is better then most situations as you can see it. Generally a blown fuse is only found when the owner goes on a search to see why something does not work.

I am assuming that the "main fuse" is at the battery? Those wires are bundled together with zip ties. There are a couple of fuses there but I have not taken the time to look at it. If that is where the main fuse is, then I can take a look this evening.

H'mm, the "individual" circuit fuse for that wire should be "somewhere" back by the power converter. I do not know what your power center looks like. Pics help here. This is not the "main" fuse from the battery but an individual circuit just for the individual set of items on that circuit. I'm assuming they had a few individual circuits at least on the older campers protected by one or two larger fuses heading to the battery. Have a look.

**JohnB** · 08-03-2017, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunline Fan

I tried to find the adapter plate but couldn't, I was wondering if they discontinued it. Do you know a source for it? I'm not super happy with the patch plate I made, but it works.

I didn't want to modify the original bezel.

OK I found the pics but I cannot link them.

Go into the 47 reviews of this one with pics. Scroll down 5 responses to response By: Firechachion April 26, 2017 He shows how he added 4 screws to the old Protector 2001 series detector and used the old bezel.

https://www.amazon.com/Atwood-36720-...s=atwood+36720

I know adding those 4 screws might be considered modifying an original camper part...., but your odds are not good finding a new working 2001 series unit to replace it with. I called Atwood today and tried to find out, they seem have discontinued the 2001 series units and the 36720 is the replacement. Even though their web site still shows it....

I have not been able to find the adapter plate 35181 for sale on line and I have not asked Atwood if they still make them.

**Sunline Fan** · 08-04-2017, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

OK I found the pics but I cannot link them.

Go into the 47 reviews of this one with pics. Scroll down 5 responses to response By: Firechachion April 26, 2017 He shows how he added 4 screws to the old Protector 2001 series detector and used the old bezel.

https://www.amazon.com/Atwood-36720-...s=atwood+36720

I know adding those 4 screws might be considered modifying an original camper part...., but your odds are not good finding a new working 2001 series unit to replace it with. I called Atwood today and tried to find out, they seem have discontinued the 2001 series units and the 36720 is the replacement. Even though their web site still shows it....

I have not been able to find the adapter plate 35181 for sale on line and I have not asked Atwood if they still make them.

Thanks, yeah I saw about the four screw mod when I put my new one in. I just cut a piece of aluminum flashing about the same size as the series 2001 bezel, then cut the center out to the size of the new version. Then mounted the new one in that with some little machine screws and nuts. The whole thing mounts in the original holes in the cabinet, and the original screws.

What doesn't impress me about the new one is how loose it is in the bracket. I read about this ahead of time and it lived up to the disappointment. I put two cable zip ties together and tightened them up around the back side of the unit, and the new bezel tabs. It tightened it up enough that it doesn't wiggle and shouldn't fall out now.

**JohnB** · 08-07-2017, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

I "think" it means, 7 years elapsed time from when it is first powered up then the sensor starts degrading. Meaning, if it is stored in the box and not used, it does not count. But once it is activated, then the 7 year time clock starts regardless of how long it was powered on.

Jon,

I read the label wrong, the states 84 months from the time of "retail sale". Meaning from the time you buy it. Does not matter when the unit was powered up or stored in a box for 7 years. They must allow some small amount of time to be able to sell it from the time it ships from the factory.

These devices just need to go on the timed replacement list of items in the camper along with smoke detectors, fire extinguishers, emergency breakaway switches etc.