Brake Control Question

tedontario · 12-28-2009, 02:11 PM

Hello Every one

I will first wish everyone a Very Happy and safe New Year. We also wish for everyone many Safe and Happy Miles going where there dreams take them.
Our first trip will be to Henderson Beach State Park in Florida. Truly a lovely place.

Now the other reason for this post. We have an F150 King Ranch with 5.4 engine and we normally only use it to pull the TT. Other than that we use it to go on short trips in our area of Ontario Canada. the problem we encounter is the battery goes dead in a short period of time during Cold weather. The dealer says the battery is okay and the charging system is working correctly. I was wondering if anyone knows if the brake controller draws any amount of power when not connected to the TT. I do know the lights are on on the controller when I get in to drive the truck.

Thanks for your time and have a happy safe day.

177 working days left until Dec 17 2010 and retirement...Not that we are counting

Ted

Stan47 · 12-28-2009, 02:34 PM

Ted, if the lights on the controller are lit without a trailer attached, I'd say there is a wiring problem, and this could be the cause of your battery drain. Should be easy enough to pull the fuse for the controller and see whether the battery stays charged.

Here in MD (and in many other states), they put salt on the highways in freezing weather. You could have an accumulation of salty sludge either on the face of the connector or on the back that is creating a leakage path.

I have had only Tekonsha Voyager controllers, but I don't know of any brake controller that is lit up in any way without being plugged into a trailer.

**JohnB** · 12-28-2009, 08:14 PM

Hi Ted

Gee counting down the days… Great! I have a few more years to count….

Your battery issue, the battery is discharging all the time the truck is turned off. It is not much but the clock and computer are still active. Under normal use this is not an issue. But when weeks and months go by it is. I even had this problem on my F350 a year ago sitting in the garage. I was out of town a lot. Had a rent a car by work policy and Cindy took our Trailblazer where ever she had to go. So the truck just sat. And sure enough the battery went way down.

Here is one fix and it will help you batteries life. This is a battery conditioner/maintainer.

http://www.batteryminders.com/batter...o-p-16134.html

Charge your battery fully with a normal charger or the truck riding around. Then hook this up and let it stay connected all the time. Your battery will be conditioned and stay at 100% full charge all the time.

It comes with a fused terminal connection for quick hook up. I went out tonight and took some pics for you.

Here is the connector. I pulled it out of its storage spot to take the pic

It has a cap that goes on it to keep the weather out. The cap is off here to show you

Then I sneak it in between the grill and headlight when unhooked. Never know it is there and out of the way. Sorry of the poor pic, it it ½ way in for this pic.

To hook up I do not even have to lift the hood.

HEADS up!! Make yourself a sign and hang it on the steering wheel that to unplug before moving the truck..... It's easy to forget. No, I did not yank one out yet... but I could see me doing it so the sign came first....

I have 4 of these battery minders. Tractor, camper, lawn mower, and truck. Check your water level, charge it the battery up and with one of these your good to go.

You can find them for about $39 at many places. Northern tool has them, Camping World, many other places. Look for the model 12117, 1.3 amp charger/maintainer/conditioner

Hope this helps

John

Stan47 · 12-29-2009, 07:58 AM

John - Great stuff, but doesn't it raise a red flag for you that the brake controller is lit? Presumably without the trailer attached...

Stan

dkasten39828 · 12-29-2009, 08:05 AM

Our Prodigy controller only lights up when I turn on the ignition. When it's turned OFF, there are no lights. Of course, that's without the coach connected...

**clueless campers** · 12-29-2009, 10:43 AM

I have a Prodigy brake controller that lights up when truck is running (even without tt) and stays lit for just a few minutes after turning ignition off.

**JohnB** · 12-29-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan47

John - Great stuff, but doesn't it raise a red flag for you that the brake controller is lit? Presumably without the trailer attached...

Stan

Stan, thanks I may have missed something.

Ted, please clarify

Quote:

I was wondering if anyone knows if the brake controller draws any amount of power when not connected to the TT. I do know the lights are on on the controller when I get in to drive the truck.

If the ignition is turned off and your foot is off the brake pedal, do you still have lights on the brake controller?

If the controller is illuminated for hours on end with the truck turned off, that is a problem.

You said when you get in and drive the truck, what is lit when you just get in and no drive or start the engine?

Also tell us what model and make brake controller. I did see which one you have.

You may be fighting a brake controller or hookup problem on top of the battery just draining from the computer and clock.

Thanks

John

**JohnB** · 12-29-2009, 12:54 PM

Ted, is this your brake controller? http://www.tekonsha.com/product/pdf/N90185.pdf

They have a statement in there that says this

Quote:

Display Readings after Wiring the Prodigy
After successfully wiring your Prodigy you should
see the following on the two-digit display:

(It lists when it will be on and see this last point)

. Power to Prodigy but display is in power saving
mode (no motion or activity for at least fifteen
minutes). No Display

So if your foot is not on the brake pedal, ignition is off, the display should blank out even if it the controller is wired hot all the time after 15 minutes. They do not give me the pigtail wiring diagram so I cannot tell if they want it hot all the time or on ignition power.

Regardless, there should be no lights or dots on after 15 minutes once you leave the truck.

Did you wire in the controller using the pig tail or the plug and play harness?

OK need more info from you now.

Hope this helps

John

**Sunline Fan** · 12-29-2009, 02:14 PM

My grandparents have an '04 Mountaineer. They've pulled trailers of ours in the past (not TT's), so they had a time based Draw-Tite in there. They were going to be taking it to FL almost two years ago so I suggested he upgrade to a Prodigy. He had just gotten the car from his brother-in-law, so he hadn't put in the Draw Tite yet.

For those who are familiar with the '02-'05 Explorers/Mountaineers, the brake controller plug is intelligently put right behind the passenger glovebox. So, if one wants to install the controller on the lower dash on the driver's side, the wires have to be run all the way across. Due to so many obstructions, the easiest way is to remove the center console, remove the glovebox, and run the wires over there.

Due to this fact, I doubt the plug & play harness would work, because I don't think it's long enough. We ran the pigtail and soldered it in there.

Just before they left, I noticed one of the two lights on the Prodigy quit. So we pulled it apart and found a wire had come loose. They had no problems until I guess it was this past summer when I noticed only one light again, and I think it's the same light. I haven't pulled it back apart to see though.

However, when they leave for FL and fly/leave the car here, I have found many times that the battery goes down where it won't start. In the past, with previous vehicles of the same type, this never happened. Only now. One time we took the battery out and brought it home to charge it, but one cell was still bad in the end. My grandpa went out to get a new battery when he got here, but it's still doing it. Just this past time while they were gone I went over and started it to take it for a quick ride to warm/charge it up. It barely started.

We did look into getting them a battery tender last winter, but Sears ran out of them and for some reason there was a huge back order on them. They weren't going to get any for at least a couple months.

I've been very tempted to just pull the plug on the Prodigy (under the dash) until they plan to use it next to see if it might help the battery.

However, I've got the same controller and I never have a problem. In fact, my Ex is stored for a couple weeks right now and as in the past, I expect to just go out and start it right up. I'll admit I did use the plug & play harness though.

Jon

Stan47 · 12-29-2009, 02:24 PM

I have no experience with the Prodigy controller. That's the one where the control head can be unplugged, isn't it?

When I bought the Suburban I wanted one of those installed, and went to Charlie's for the work. Wanted to give them specific instructions on where to mount the controller, because the controller on my previous TV was in a spot where you could hit it with your knee and then have to re-level it. I was discussing this with one of the techs when the service manager interrupted and started a big argument, somehow accusing me of being a know-it-all. The guy tore up the work order and threw my keys at me. "Charlie" himself was there, witnessed all this, and took up for his service manager. I will go back to them when pigs fly.

**Sunline Fan** · 12-29-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan47

When I bought the Suburban I wanted one of those installed, and went to Charlie's for the work. Wanted to give them specific instructions on where to mount the controller, because the controller on my previous TV was in a spot where you could hit it with your knee and then have to re-level it. I was discussing this with one of the techs when the service manager interrupted and started a big argument, somehow accusing me of being a know-it-all. The guy tore up the work order and threw my keys at me. "Charlie" himself was there, witnessed all this, and took up for his service manager. I will go back to them when pigs fly.

Whew! That sure sounds like a prime model for customer service! Apparently they need to visit Jimmy John's more often, where they have a sign saying something like "the customer always knows best"...

Yes, the Prodigy does have a plug in on the back of the unit, as do all Tekonsha controllers now I believe, or at least the Primus, Prodigy, and P3. The box includes a plug in pigtail that plugs into the back of the controller with bare wire ends on the other end, which can be soldered, etc into the vehicle's harness or tapped into brake lines if the case may be.

However, they came out with a wonderful thing that had a Tekonsha plug on one end and either a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge plug on the other. It's plenty long for most applications. So if one isn't concerned with mounting the controller, the controller can be hooked up and ready to pull a trailer in five minutes or maybe less if you know exactly where the plug is.

Jon

henryj · 12-29-2009, 04:46 PM

I have a Prodigy in a truck that is not driven in winter--maybe once or twice on a salt free day--and I have never had battery problems. The dots on the Prodigy display are lit when I shut down, but they are never lit the next day. They will light as soon as I hit the brake pedal even before starting, and they will not light after starting either until I hit the brake pedal to shift out of park. I would agree with others that the Prodigy wiring is the likely culprit and that possibility should be eliminated before digging deeper.

I use the BatteryMinder John linked to on the trailer battery. I bought it in the US at CW at a good price. But I recently got a second different unit for my truck at Canadian Tire--the website won't let me link directly to it. Type ctek into the home page search field and that will find it.

http://www.canadiantire.ca/home.jsp?site=WebStore

This is not a good price--I got mine on sale for $50 or $60. If you ask nicely, I've found most staff will look over their shoulder and then check the computer to see when it's scheduled to be on sale again and at what price. Don't be too hasty to take electrical advice from me, but I believe this unit will do everything the BatteryMinder does--and if you can get it on sale, it's a local source at a competitive price without cross border shipping issues.

Desulfation is not a new technology, but has only recently hit the mainstream--like Canadian Tire. A number of SOC members have one or another brand, but I don't believe anyone has had one long enough to know how much they help. The science behind it is sound so I'm willing to give it a shot. RV batteries, as well as TV batteries that also sit all winter, need all the help they can get. Discharged batteries sulfate faster and may also freeze in cold weather. I believe Norm has reported previously that he has gotten long life simply by leaving his batteries on a trickle charge.

Henry

tedontario · 12-29-2009, 04:52 PM

Well Thank you John, Jon, Stan and Dave;

I went out earlier today and plugged the controller in, yes John that is the one I have, and the two small lights stay on. Now I will admit I didn't just sit there in the cold for 15 minutes but for the 3 or so I sat the lights stay on. The controller was installed by the Ford dealer and so I will ask if they can check it out. i should tell you that if I didn't really like this truck we would not have a Ford. I delivered to Ford dealers as a truck driver for quit a while and was never too impressed with the way they treated me in that respect. But as a customer with a truck to service they are not too bad.

I have taken the controller out and as stated by some it is very easy to snap it back in it April when I need it. John I checked at our local Canadian Tire Store and they have a unit like a Battery Minder for about 60.00 Canadian so if I still encounter trouble I will pick one up. For now I have a quick start unit that I keep charged up in the house and when needed I can get started easy enough. But I am just not used to having to worry about it.

Very Happy New Year to everyone and thanks again for the help

Ted

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EMD_Driver · 12-29-2009, 07:15 PM

Hi Ted,

Sorry for taking so long to chime in.. I have a P3 brake controller by Tekonsha. It doesn't have any lights on it, but does have an information screen. It works very similar to Henry's, but will display "No trailer connected" when I first hit the brake pedal. After a few seconds, it goes to the normal Tekonsha display. When I turn my truck off, it will still have the Tekonsha display showing.

After so long, it will shut itself off and there will be nothing on the display. Evidently, it is always waiting for a trailer to be connected, because it will immediately display "0.0" when I plug in a trailer. Even when the truck is not running.

I don't know if this info helps you, but it's how mine works. It is always in standby... Even when the truck is not running.