Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
Sunline RV Forum
Sunline User Photos

Go Back   Sunline Coach Owner's Club > Technical Forums > Modifications
Click Here to Login

Join Sunline Club Forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-13-2007, 01:34 PM   #1
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,920
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
Skid Wheels to help with Dragging

I think I posted this before as a reply to a different topic, but I thought I would post it as a topic if anyone is interested and to make it a little easier to find.

Our previous Sunline was a T-2670, which sat low. I never flipped the axles, but took the drag bars off and installed skid wheels. It was dragging so much that the drag bars were bending. The skid wheels saved the trailer from a lot of damage.

We now have a T-280SR which sits higher, but I still installed drag wheels as added protection. Figured it’s better to be more protected, just in case.

I mounted the skids wheels on the frame just before the bumper.


Our T-280SR has an I-Beam frame, so I had to drill 4 holes through the beam to attach the side wheels.


Our 1999 Sunline T-2670 had a C-Channel frame and I believe the non-slide trailers still have the C-Channel frames. On the T-2670 I only had to drill 2 holes to attach the mounting bracket for the skid wheels. I centered the mounting bracket on the C-Frame, and the bolts for the skids wheels were spaced enough that they could be installed without interference from the C-Frame.

Note: On the T-2670 I had to cut off the angle iron that was installed at the facture as drag bars. These were actually starting to bend on me because the trailer was dragging so much. I mounted the skid wheels in the same spot where the drag bars were located.
__________________

__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2007, 06:50 PM   #2
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Hutch nice job.

I have been thinking of these myself. But I have only drug my low slung axle T2499 once. It was coming out of a gas station high up off the road.

I do have to go slow and watch it or else.

In the event I get to this, where did you get the swivel casters?

John
__________________

__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 05:52 AM   #3
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,920
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
John,

I got the Skid Wheels at Camping World. I was lucky, one day at the Hamburg Camping World store I say a set on the clearance rack for $20. I grabbed them up in an instant. I don’t think Camping World is carrying them any more. But RV Toy Outlet still has them for ~$95.

Hutch
__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2007, 07:04 PM   #4
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTHutch
John,

I was lucky, one day at the Hamburg Camping World store I say a set on the clearance rack for $20. I grabbed them up in an instant. I don’t think Camping World is carrying them any more.
Hutch
WOW...


Talk about luck...

I know the Hamburg store and visit most times I'm back in Buffalo at the DW's parents. But, my luck has never been that good...

The reason I have not gone there just yet is the $100 bucks and I only drug the back once. I actually have more issues with the hitch hitting (DC) if I forget and bounce the truck over a RR track. It's me that did it as I "forgot" and ding, it reminds me. Now done that 3 times.... I have actually thought of adding a roller to them, but have not made it to that just yet.

Glad for your good fortune.

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 05:38 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 186
SUN #328
bugbite
Good! We were thinking the same thing

Hutch,

I was about to ask this.

We have a very steep angle at the street to the beginning of our drive.

DH was thinking of cutting and then welding caster "helper" wheels. Glad yours didn't need the flip kit. That sounded like a PIA.

I noticed you bolted.

Are the bolts doing their job over the x mount of years you installed them?

What size bolt?

What do you think of using a heavy carriage bolt?
__________________
BB
VOL Fanatic
Sun Seeker
Cool Runnings Silent and Swift
bugbite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 06:05 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTHutch
John,

I got the Skid Wheels at Camping World. I was lucky, one day at the Hamburg Camping World store I say a set on the clearance rack for $20. I grabbed them up in an instant. I don’t think Camping World is carrying them any more. But RV Toy Outlet still has them for ~$95.

Hutch
Hutch, I am wondering if those casters of yours have a weight rating stamped on them. It occurs to me that Home Depot and Lowes carry large swivel casters, and maybe, just maybe, they'd work just as well, and for a lot less money. The only thing I'm worried about is the weight rating. If what I can buy over the counter at Home Depot/Lowes is even close to what is sold as "RV Skid Wheels", I'd go that route.

Anybody have any thoughts on swivel vs. fixed wheels? (Swivels are more expensive.)

My triangular metal skids scrape in my driveway every time I back in, plus the odd entry/exit from a gas station that's too steep. The skid is getting worn to the point where it's going to break, and I best get thinking about fixing it.

Luckily, my '99 has the C channel for main frame so it's just be a matter of drilling the holes. I can fabricate the mounting plates in my shop so no biggie there.
__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 09:06 AM   #7
Moderator
 
Sunline Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,155
SUN #123
Sunline Fan is an unknown quantity at this point
Steve,

My dad had straight casters on the back of his car hauler for the longest time. When coming out of the garage, it went down an incline and then had to turn 90 degrees. The straight casters got chewed up in a couple times because it was dragging them sideways. With some minor modification, there's now swivel casters on there and they work great. In this particular case, it's well worth the extra money, but on a TT, it may not be as necessary. If you plan on a lot of hilly travel, such as in Steubenville, OH, swivel casters are a must, no matter what type of trailer you have. We had the car hauler down there for a car show and it hit on every single driveway! BTW, that was before any casters.

Jon
__________________
2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
Sunline Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 09:26 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 186
SUN #328
bugbite
swivel vs.

>>Anybody have any thoughts on swivel vs. fixed wheels? (Swivels are more expensive.) <<

I asked that on RV.forum and a guy really cool PM'd me. ( He thot I wa a male too LOL) He said he tried the fixed first and had to sweat them off and weld on swivels. The angle you take on a turn up into a steep incline just bends the fixed and they go caterwonger.

That would be a no go on that one. Spend a bit more vs. a do over.

No sense patchin ceement and having to reweld. No that really adds up. Diff in price of a caster vs. a straight would be nominal in comparison.

BB
__________________
BB
VOL Fanatic
Sun Seeker
Cool Runnings Silent and Swift
bugbite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 06:46 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 95
SUN #296
RPierce
Try looking on http://www.northerntool.com they hav...<br /> <br />http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_14014_14014

these have a 2500 pound rating for $37.00
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...7561_200337561
__________________
Bob & Jen
Very UpState NY

1994 Sunline Solaris T2670
2002 2500HD Chev D-max

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1...gely005pm5.jpg
RPierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 07:36 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPierce
Try looking on www.northerntool.com they have heavy duty swivel casters for around $21.00 each. They have a 1200 pound rating.
I bet the 1200 pounders will do the job just fine. Guess I gotta make sure my Northern Products account is still active...

Hey, Potsdam! I'm a Clarkson guy... Would have been class of '70 if I'd gone all the way.
__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 08:17 PM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
 
kanyonkitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,289
SUN #17
kanyonkitty is an unknown quantity at this point
I have thought about the swivel skid wheels, but not taken that step yet. My main concern "IS" what happens to the frame when you drag? Your now putting a lot of pressure on the frame, or am I'm not thinking right

Kitty
__________________
Sunny #18 2003 F-344SR #8157
Sunny #19 1997 T-2653 #5485
1999 Ford F350XLT DRW Crew Cab, Long bed 7.3 PSD
2002 VW Jetta TDI.. AKA: Kitty's Kruiser
kanyonkitty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 08:21 PM   #12
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Steve

If you are upgrading, go for the swivels. The side loading in turns can create as many issues as the V bars.

From a loading point of view, if you want I can estimate how much weight the rear skid bar is taking in a pure static condition if you tried to lift the camper by say 1"

If you want this, I would need these numbers.

1. GVWR on the TT
2. Dry tongue weight
3. Dry GVW
4. Distance from TT ball to end of TT frame where the wheel will mount.
5. Distance from TT ball to center of first axle
6. Distance from center of first axle to center of rear axle.

If by any chance you have loaded scaled tongue weights and TT axle weights I'll take them too.

This number I'll give you would not take into account side loads, shock impact loads or trying to lift the rear of the TT many inches. The further you lift, the higher the load goes up.

BUT it would give you starting place. If it can't take this static load, it will never take the rest. Each TT setup would be different so what works on one, may not on the other. A 30 foot 7,000# GVWR camper would have less load on the skid bars then a 7,000# 25 foot camper.

Good luck and let me know if you need know. Glad to help if I can.

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2007, 08:57 PM   #13
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanyonkitty
I have thought about the swivel skid wheels, but not taken that step yet. My main concern "IS" what happens to the frame when you drag? Your now putting a lot of pressure on the frame, or am I'm not thinking right

Kitty
Kitty

Your point is very valid. Here are some things to think on.

- When you drag on a V skid bar, the TT frame takes a very directed point load.
- Before the V bar crushes, the frame is taking the same load on a wheel as a skid bar.
- Once the V bar crushes and gives way, then an immediate unloading occurs. The V bar sort of act’s like a shear pin overload device. It takes so much load, then breaks off and you gain approx 6” more clearance before you drag the frame.
- If you drag bad enough, when the V bar breaks off and you hit the frame, the frame pressure is still there.

So is a wheel better or worse? Depends.

If you have a light drag that does not crush a V bar, then wheel or V bar will not matter. The frame is taking the same loading.

EDIT: 7-1-07 After thinking on this, if you add a wheel, make sure it is equal to or less than the hang down height of the V bar. If not the wheel will hit before the V bar would of.

If you drag like say, 3 or 4 inches worth that would mostly likely break off a V bar, then the wheel will exert more pressure and “may” damage parts of the TT. Depending on the TT layout this may or may not be as severe.

In summary, when you drag,

- Drag slow.
- Stop when you hear a bad crash. Get out and look. Backing up may be a better option.
- A heavy drag of many inches by a wheel could create a problem faster than a V bar setup. How much depends on how hard the drag is.
- A V bar set up that has crushed and then drags on the frame, can create the same heavy loading as a wheel setup.

So what does one do?

1. Don’t drag…
2. If you use wheels, keep an eye on it and if the drag is too much. Stop.
3. If you have V bars, keep and eye on it and if the drag is too much. Stop.

4. EDIT 7-1-07 Thinking more on this, ideally adding a wheel of ample loading that has a shorter over all height than a V bar, could offer benefits. The wheel would not touch as soon a V bar would of and give rolling friction verses a drag bar. This ideal wheel would be a swivel caster, heavy axle pin and caster fork for the load and short in over all height.

5. When the TT hitch is setup, TT being level is best but if your hitch shank will not allow this, slight nose down, ~ 1/2 to 1" max. Being nose up on some TT’s allows sway to occur sooner and creates the drag on the V bars faster since the TT is tipped down in the back.


The wheel will approach the point of problem potentially quicker then a V bar.

I wish we had Sunline still here to ask them. I know they would give us an answer that helped us sort this out and made sense.

Hope this helps

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2007, 04:20 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 186
SUN #328
bugbite
I read on RV Forum that some had to remove their skids before weldng casters.

Do you have to Hutch?
__________________
BB
VOL Fanatic
Sun Seeker
Cool Runnings Silent and Swift
bugbite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 10:15 AM   #15
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,920
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
Can't add much more technical info than what JohnB as already included.
But here’s a little more on my specific usage, experience, and reasoning.

I didn’t weld the base on either Sunline. Bolted both on to the frame using the bolts that came with the skid wheels. What was included in the packages was 2- bases w/ 2 bolts/nuts each to bolt to frame, and 2 skid wheels / casters with 4 bolts/nuts each to bolt to base.

If you’re going to weld the base to the frame, I would recommend NOT having the skid wheel/caster attached to the base during the welding process.

The placement process they recommended was to take a long board (I used a string) from the base/ground of the rear tire and angle the board up to where it touches the bumper. This establishes the potential drag/clearance line. Position the skid wheels on the frame such that the wheel extends below this line.

I don’t drag with our T-280SR, but I installed the drag wheels after determining that if I did drag, the bottom of the spare tire would hit/drag, not the bumper. Knowing this at a minimum would damage the spare tire cover, and possibly damage the tire and/or rip the spare tire off depending on the severity of the drag I decided to add the skid wheels as a safety measure. Plus when I found a pair for $20, it was a no brainer.

Wrt weight rating, the manufacture does not assign a weight rating to their skid wheels, but has recommended usage based on their impact rating / testing (though they don’t list their impact rating either). But they do have a valid point, the impact rating is more important than the weight rating, since there is no constant weight on the skid wheels.

On our previous T-2670 I tried their wheels mounted on the skid bar first.


These didn’t work too well and the skid bar eventually bent. That’s when I cut off the skid bars and installed the skid wheels.
__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 06:11 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 503
SUN #43
Trailblazer is an unknown quantity at this point
I have been following this thread with great interest. It contains a lot of very valuable information. Now I figure one day I am going to have to replace my skid bars with skid wheels. My original thought was to buy a pair of swivel caster wheels that are rated for 900 lbs weight and make up my own mounting plate to mount on the trailer when the time comes to remove my skid bars. Now PThutch has brought up an interesting point about the impact rating of the wheels and it is something I hadn't thought of in the past. So now I have to ask if the 900 lb rated skid wheels will handle the impact or am I better buy the ones actually sold as skid wheels.

Just to add to the conversation about an axle flip vs skid wheels, when I did the factory tour last fall I talk to Carl the design engineer at the factory and he said to me that when the Skid bars wear out I should add 6 inch skid wheels instead of doing the axle flip. He also said that Sunline sold a skid wheel kit for the trailer. A search in the FAQ section of the sunline website suggest skid wheels along with the axle flip if you experience dragging during travel. I would think that if Sunline felt the skid wheels would do any damage to the frame or the trailer, they would not suggest the adding of skid wheels to the trailer.
__________________
Trailblazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 06:34 PM   #17
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,920
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
Trailblazer,

You bring up some good points. I wasn’t aware that Sunline had a skid wheel kit nor did I know that they recommended skid wheels over flipping the axles. Thanks for sharing.

With our T-2670 I had always wanted to flip the axles, not due to dragging but so I could raise the sewer drain pipe. That was my biggest issue with the low profile of the T-2670, at a lot of full hook-up sites, the sewer hose was draining up hill because the camp site’s sewer pipe was at the same level or higher than the trailer’s sewer drain.

Hutch
__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 06:54 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Ontario
Posts: 503
SUN #43
Trailblazer is an unknown quantity at this point
PTHutch

Don't get me wrong, Sunline did not recommend one solution over another it was Carl who recommended it to me while at the factory tour. I believe Sunline's official position was that it was an alternative to an axle flip. Here is the link to the Sunline website where they answer the question about what to do if your trailer drags a lot during travel:

http://www.sunlinerv.com/index.php/s...do_about_this/
__________________
Trailblazer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2007, 07:43 PM   #19
Moderator
 
PTHutch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,920
SUN #98
PTHutch is an unknown quantity at this point
Thanks for the clarification and the link.

I guess our soluation was, in stead of flipping the axles, we just bought a new Sunline Not sure if that was really cost affective, but it worked for us and we're happy we did it.
__________________
Mary & Tom (aka Hutch)
2015 Jayco Eagle Premier 361REQS
2014 GMC Sierra 3500HD 4x4 CC D/A
Sunlines: 2005 Solaris T-280SR; 1999 Solaris T-2670; 1998 Saturn T-24A
PTHutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2007, 02:01 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 186
SUN #328
bugbite
IMHO Casters are not optional

Hutch,

Even flatlanders can benefit having casters. One never knows.

>>I don’t drag with our T-280SR, but I installed the drag wheels after determining that if I did drag, the bottom of the spare tire would hit/drag, not the bumper. Knowing this at a minimum would damage the spare tire cover, and possibly damage the tire and/or rip the spare tire off depending on the severity of the drag I decided to add the skid wheels as a safety measure. Plus when I found a pair for $20, it was a no brainer.
<<

Say, someone was asking (believe it or not, not me) about "load rating" of the casters. Not a tire for sure. These are meant for momentary touching of ground slope only. Just enough to keep the rear end from scraping.

So where did you find your 20 buck no brainers?

BB
__________________

__________________
BB
VOL Fanatic
Sun Seeker
Cool Runnings Silent and Swift
bugbite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Safe on 3 wheels???? Lode Sunline Community 5 06-26-2009 02:02 PM
My wheels were bent? dkasten39828 Sunline Community 2 05-11-2009 03:13 PM
Replacing Skid Bars donreitz Repairs and Maintenance 7 05-02-2008 02:12 PM
trailer wheels vmifan Repairs and Maintenance 2 07-26-2007 03:22 PM
Sunline 5th Wheels? rebellious78 Sunline Community 1 11-13-2006 05:55 PM


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sunline RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:15 PM.


×