Sunline RV Forum
Sunline User Photos

Go Back   Sunline Coach Owner's Club > Sunline Club Community Forums > Introduce Yourself
Click Here to Login

Join Sunline Club Forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-05-2018, 10:02 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6
SUN #10767
PAquilter is an unknown quantity at this point
Saying, "Hello!" as a new member

Greetings, Everyone! I stumbled upon this group, (and joined) as I was doing research on a 2003 Sunline Solaris Lite T-2363 I looked at last night as a possible first camper. I'm a single, senior lady who has ideas of getting a self contained camper so I can be more actively responding to disaster recovery sites with a faith-based organization I've worked with. I've been part of leadership teams of volunteers on site in rolling 4-week or longer assignments, doing things that support our teams of 10-35 short-term volunteers that come for 1-2 weeks to clear debris, tarp homes, muck out damaged possessions and building materials, so later teams can make home repairs, and even do some complete rebuilds. Our organization may be on location for several months to a decade helping communities recover. The long-term volunteers stay long enough to get acquainted, build relationships, encourage survivors and provide continuity, and smooth transitions for the overall project sites. it's very rewarding work, but can also be stressful at times because we see and hear so much of the effects on our clients' lives.My particular area is to maintain all kinds of records; be a communicator between our project, locals, clients, short-term volunteer teams as they travel from all parts of US & Canada; to pay project bills, and lots of other "office management" tasks. So far, I've only been part of "Early Response Teams" that go in right after search and rescue operations, up til about 3-4 months later. "Recovery" teams start after that doing bigger repairs and home rebuilds. Our organization may be running a dozen or more projects in US & Canada at any time. They usually have one or two that are RV Projects, where the volunteers go in their own RV's, prepare their own meals, and have a shorter workday and shorter work week that appeals to some seniors not as spry as the teams in their 20's to 40's. I think I'd like to give that a try, and do a bit of meandering on my way home after my assignment is done. Thus--my search for an appropriate RV! My TV is a 2018 Toyota Highlander XLE with a tow capacity of 5000#. The T-2363 I looked at had a plate listing G?WR of 2395# and I came looking to learn if this camper (that blew me away with layout and condition for the price!) will work for my TV. I did see that the 2004 model had a weight of 4200# but the plate said it was manufactured in 2003, though the seller bought it new in 2004. I'm still trying to digest all I read, particularly all that John B had written. Right now my head is spinning, spinning, spinning! I will have some gear for cooking etc, and clothes, but it will be only what I need for myself and not include a lot of extra "stuff" that isn't essential. I may need to load my fresh water tank a hundred miles or so before my destination if I'm on early response, but wouldn't have to travel the whole way with it loaded. Had also seen some T-1950 online that could work, though I REALLY loved the T-2363 layout! For now, I need some shut eye and mental rest. I'll be back!

Lydia, a quilter in Central PA
__________________

__________________
PAquilter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2018, 07:24 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Mellow Yellow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vermont
Posts: 803
SUN #3259
Mellow Yellow is an unknown quantity at this point
Wow, amazing work ! Welcome to the site !
__________________

__________________
Tom and Debbie
2018 Dodge Ram 3500 HD w/Hemi (The Poppie Mobile)
1972 Chevy K10 Custom 4 x4 - (Mellow Yellow) Orig. owners !
2001 Sunline Solaris T-250 SR

Mellow Yellow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2018, 09:56 AM   #3
Moderator
 
Sunline Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,994
SUN #123
Sunline Fan is an unknown quantity at this point
Welcome Lydia!

The GVWR of a 2003 and 2004 T-2363 is 5500 lbs. I'm a little confused on what year this trailer is- the 2004 model year started around July of 2003 and went through around May of 2004, so a 2004 trailer can very likely have a 2003 build date. Personally, I think your tow vehicle is too light duty for a 2363.
__________________
2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9467.8 (as of 5/26/19)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
Sunline Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2018, 07:06 PM   #4
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,174
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Hi Lydia,

Welcome to Club and thanks for your intro. It helps give some background on your needs as far as a camper.

I agree a camper can help you in the way you described. They are self contained campers and can run very well with no outside supplied power for a period of time.

The 2 campers you mentioned, the T1950 and the T2363 are very nice campers and camper wise would do you well. However there is a reality to that size of camper and your 2018 Highlander.

I tried to look up the needed towing info for your little SUV and there is not much about it in the owner's manual as far as real spec's on all the needs. See here https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/docu...f/OM0E031U.pdf

Page 201 talks about what the vehicle was built for. And while it mentioned towing, it was not really built for needs of the T1950 or the T2363. And as a fellow camper friend, any of the 2 axle Sunline campers will be a problem. Sunline did make a lot of single axle campers that after a through review may work. They would be older models, I do not know what year they stopped the most of them, they did make a 2007 Que which is a single axle camper but there are not many of them out there. The problem is not only the ability to pull the camper but the ability of the truck to hold up all the weight of the larger camper that is the biggest issue. Next the pull ratings will quickly show up.

I know that may not be what you wanted to hear, but we are trying to not let you get into a not good situation with a camper beyond the means of your tow vehicle.

We are glad to help, explain as needed to help you learn how to do this and be comfortable with it too.

Hope this helps some, and again we are glad to try and help you. Just ask away.

Thanks

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2018, 08:11 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,999
SUN #2097
mainah is an unknown quantity at this point
I agree the Highlander is not enough for a T2363 I tow a T1700 with a Tacoma and you know it's back there in the hills. My Tacoma is rated 6500# towing but there is no way I would want to. I also think a T1950 is pushing the limits pretty hard. The 4 cylinder Highlander would be out of the question it definitely not enough for anything over 3000#
__________________
mainah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2018, 01:52 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6
SUN #10767
PAquilter is an unknown quantity at this point
Well, good afternoon, and "Thank you!" to all who have chimed in about the suitability of my Highlander being coupled with the Solaris T-2363! I'm certainly not going to brush aside all your comments! The very reason I came upon this SOC was because I was doing research as to whether the T-2363 was in fact something my Highlander could tow--something I was deeply questioning. Just the appearance of that "big thing" made me question, even though I LOVED the layout and the pristine appearance of the trailer when I saw it. The back story: I was advised by a guy now selling cars, but who had been an RV salesman for 17yrs, to get an idea of the pull-behind I wanted and its weight before purchasing a TV. So been looking at various TT listed on line for about a year, and visited a few locally because sometimes pictures just don't give a realistic view. Had determined that most TT's that would fit my needs and wants were 3500# or less I began looking for a TV. The same salesman told me about Trailer Life Magazine's New Vehicle Tow Ratings listed annually in their April issues listing all makes and models and their tow capacities. If buying a used vehicle, I could go back to the appropriate year for Trailer Life's tests and evaluations. This was a resource he used with his former customers in advising them. He, and others, advised I should figure on the trailer's weight + 1000# for contents, as my required tow capacity on the TV, and better to have some wiggle room than to push to the limits of my TV tow capacity. From there, I eventually settled on the 2018 Highlander XLE, 3.5L V6 AWD with manufacturer's declared tow capacity of 5000#. A FWD and earlier versions did/do have a tow capacity of only 3500#, but mine is stated as 5000#, but has actually tested capable of >5000 by Toyota. (However, if I tow over stated limit, the warranty is voided.) I figured if my trailer was 3500# or less, then I'd be within the tow capacity, including what I expected to load as cargo. There is just me, and I've traveled to disaster sites with the 50# luggage limit of airlines for clothing and such for stays over 1 month. Not likely to travel with kids, pets and others. I realize in a trailer, I'll be adding more than clothes, but probably not some of the extras like lights, carpets, recreational equipment, etc., that some campers do for leisure travel.

I learned of the T-2363 via a 1" classified ad in my local paper, with a limited description, but it seemed to include much of what I hoped for. Called the ph# the day the ad first appeared and made arrangements to travel 45 min to go see it. It was advertised as a 2004 Sunline Solaris, but little other specific info & I didn't have time to do online research between calling & seeing it. If I had, I would likely have dismissed it as bigger than I wanted, or fancier than I needed. They didn't have the trailer's weight at hand when I'd called, but thought it to be <4200 fully loaded. When I got there, he'd noted a small metal plate on the outside of the trailer that listed it as a 2003, (at least in manufacture) and a G?WR was stamped as 2345 or 2395. (I now forget) While I LOVED it, and it was in nearly new condition, reportedly used only about 20x since they purchased new in 2004 (so he thought it a 2004 model), I was not ready to buy til I checked more on the brand, the model, and it's weight etc. Even so, even if it was something I could haul, I wasn't sure I wanted to have something that LONG! But I have family who has been looking for TT and this might suit their needs, and they have a TV capable of hauling 10,000#, so they are going with me to look at it tonight and will take time to look more at their original documentations.
In my research on this sight before my original posting, I saw that the weight of the 2003 T-2363 was significantly less than the 4200# 2004 version. Thus, I see that with TVs and TTs, it is important to recognize there can be differences from year to year within models in weights and other aspects. The very positive thing I've discovered is the reputation of Sunline RV products, the way many have held up well over decades, unlike other makes, and the better quality materials used. Wish they'd not gone out of business!!! Plus, I once lived within 15 miles of their manufacturing site & still have friends there!
I'll keep you posted! Thanks for your input!

PA Quilter
__________________
PAquilter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2018, 03:07 PM   #7
Moderator
 
Sunline Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,994
SUN #123
Sunline Fan is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAquilter View Post
In my research on this sight before my original posting, I saw that the weight of the 2003 T-2363 was significantly less than the 4200# 2004 version. Thus, I see that with TVs and TTs, it is important to recognize there can be differences from year to year within models in weights and other aspects.
While it's true that model year changes can result in weight changes between years, that's not the case for 2003 to 2004. Both years' 2363 had a 5500 GVWR. The gross vehicle weight rating is the maximum that your trailer can weigh. No way the GVWR could possibly be 2345#. Dry weight of the 2003 model was 3950# and dry weight of the 2004 model was 4200#. This difference is likely due to adding 2" of interior height to the 2004 smaller (<25') trailers. However, this weight cannot be used for calculating if you can tow it, because everything you add to the trailer and everything you add in your vehicle will take away from that towing capacity.

It's like picking up a gallon of milk. If you have surgery and your doctor says you can't lift more than a half gallon of milk, no full gallons, but you still buy and lift the gallon, thinking it'll only be a half gallon in a couple days. For those first few days, you shouldn't be lifting that whole gallon, but you do anyway. You may not do damage, but you could, and it isn't good for you.
__________________
2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9467.8 (as of 5/26/19)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
Sunline Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2018, 04:37 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6
SUN #10767
PAquilter is an unknown quantity at this point
Thanks for your response and explanation, Sunline Fan! I admit to being new at this, and having trouble understanding (and remembering) how all these various weights & ratings relate. I read about them, and soon forget the differences between GCWR, GVWR, GAWR, TWR and which relates to "dry weight" and which to the loaded trailer, &/or the loaded trailer AND my loaded TV! I'm one who researches, learns, and doesn't make rash decisions without not only my own work, but consulting others with expertise as well. I won't buy a TT until I'm well satisfied it is safe and appropriate for my vehicle, and I'm not going to just take a seller's word that his older V6 TV handled it! I'm one who plays by the "rule books" vs pushing limits in many life matters, so NOT going to risk damaging my new vehicle by attempting to tow too much! I am going to see it again tonight with family members who have intermittently also been looking, and have a TV rated for more weight, and another who works for the DMV. One may like it enough to buy it, and in any case they can help school me in things to look at and look for in considering a TT. I know to look for water stains for roof leaking for instance, but maybe there are other things less evident even my eyes can learn to see?

Thanks for your care that I not get into the wrong situation!

PA Quilter
__________________
PAquilter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2018, 06:51 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,999
SUN #2097
mainah is an unknown quantity at this point
Be advised "dry weight" is empty no propane no water no stuff from home no battery it mounts up fast The T 2363 is way too much for some thing rated 5000# it would a a classic example of the tail wagging the dog.
__________________
mainah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2018, 10:14 PM   #10
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,174
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Hi PA Quilter,

To help explain some of the numbers you saw, here are a few pics to help you interpret what this all means.

I do not have this info on a 2004 T2363 but I do on a 2005 T2363. There were some design changes in the 2005 year models over the 2004's but the points I am going to make will not matter what year or what camper you go to look at.

First off, a general picture of this 2005 T2363 so you can identify with it. I too really like this floor plan.


Next is the VIN tag which will be on the front left side (drivers side) of the camper.


The "Date" does mean the month the camper was built at Sunline. However it does not always mean what "model year" it was. Sunline Fan can better tell what years they started making the model years as the date changed when the next year models came out. Sort of like the car industry. However in 2004 and 2005 time frame, Sunline would be building 2005 models in latter 2004. maybe even in October 2004 they would be making a 2005 model camper. I happen to have model year 2004 T1950 that was built in October 2003. Point, you cannot always tell the model year from the VIN tag unless you have the Sunline background of what month and year that model was made.

Next is the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) means the heaviest the camper is allowed to weigh with all cargo, water, LP gas and the weight of the physical camper. It is tricky the way it is printed as they list KG first, in this case, 2,495 KG (Kilograms) and then it lists 5,500 LB (pounds). If the seller or you read the KG number thinking it might be the pounds number, that can be a mix up.

Next is the GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) means the max. "each" axle can support in KG and LB. Since this camper has 2 axles, it can hold up 2 times the number on the tires, springs and axle rating. BUT, you cannot load it so heavy on one axle that you accidentally go over on one axle and be real light on the other.

Next is the "weight tag" inside the camper. Sunline actually weighed each camper it made and listed the weight with all options that is installed prior to shipping. On the Sunlines that have these tags (I do not know what year the weight tag started, but into the 2,000's all of them do.) this tag will be inside a kitchen cabinet or in the bathroom top cabinet.


Here you can see the actual UVW (unloaded vehicle weight) means what the camper weighed at Sunline with no battery installed or LP gas filled in the tanks. NOTE: This UVW does not include anything a dealer or prior owner may have added to the camper. Again it lists it in Pounds and Kilograms. Odd they list pounds first then KG. On the VIN they list KG first then LB...

So this 2005 camper weighs 4,336 lb. the day it left Sunline. When you fill the LP tanks with gas, it adds 63 lb. of weight, when the dealer or you add the required battery to power the camper it adds approx 45 to 50 lb. I do not know if the camper had the spare tire added at Sunline, if it did it would be in the UVW, if someone else added the spare tire then it adds to the weight.

Adding this up, 4,336 lb UVW + 63 LP gas + 50 lb = 4,449 lb before you add anything. If you haul fresh water that would add an addition 332 lb.

As you can see, the actual loaded weight is rising real fast which is why we are stating the T2363 is too much for your Highlander.

The single axle Sunlines were mostly in the 3,500 lb max weight class. Some less but not any with more than that. Meaning their GVWR is at or less than 3,500 lb. which after checking the hitch weight and other things could "maybe" work with your Highlander. This all needs to be checked, you cannot only go by total weight of the camper.

We did not yet get into the needed reserve pulling capacity to deal with travel trailers large frontal area exposed to the wind yet, but that is a real factor to understand and account for. And what the loaded trailer tongue weight does to the rear axle of the tow vehicle, can it hold up the camper tongue weight. They are all part of, what can my vehicle tow in a "travel trailer". Travel trailers have different needs then open utility trailers, boats, or even small cargo trailers. The truck manuals do not state the differences between them however the effects on the truck are very real. The differences are buried in the "fine print" and not the advertised "Tow Rating". That wording Tow Rating has affected many good folks by the wording. Hey it says it can tow that weight? So why is my truck having such a hard time with it?

Hope this helps.

John

Hope
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2018, 04:20 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
enormiss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 119
SUN #9247
enormiss is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB View Post
We did not yet get into the needed reserve pulling capacity to deal with travel trailers large frontal area exposed to the wind yet, but that is a real factor to understand and account for. Travel trailers have different needs then open utility trailers, boats, or even small cargo trailers. The truck manuals do not state the differences between them however the effects on the truck are very real. The differences are buried in the "fine print" and not the advertised "Tow Rating". That wording Tow Rating has affected many good folks by the wording. Hey it says it can tow that weight? So why is my truck having such a hard time with it?
This is something frequently overlooked. I experienced it with a previous tow rig and trailer. I was towing a 22' trailer with a 1ton van (3500). Brakes and suspension were no problem, even overkill, but it hated life highway merging. It could keep up with traffic on flat highway but slowed on every hill. I'm normally a passing lane driver and being in the slow lane and still holding up a string of traffic worked my nerves and was physically exhausting. I had towed my jeep with the same vehicle without the same issues.

Just keep in mind a camper is like pulling a big parachute! You may never realize it but doing your homework now will save you grief later. I think most of us learn the hard way!
__________________
Norm 01 T267SR
enormiss is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2018, 07:57 AM   #12
Moderator
 
Sunline Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,994
SUN #123
Sunline Fan is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by enormiss View Post
This is something frequently overlooked. I experienced it with a previous tow rig and trailer. I was towing a 22' trailer with a 1ton van (3500). Brakes and suspension were no problem, even overkill, but it hated life highway merging. It could keep up with traffic on flat highway but slowed on every hill. I'm normally a passing lane driver and being in the slow lane and still holding up a string of traffic worked my nerves and was physically exhausting. I had towed my jeep with the same vehicle without the same issues.

Just keep in mind a camper is like pulling a big parachute! You may never realize it but doing your homework now will save you grief later. I think most of us learn the hard way!
This is a great discussion! So many people look at dry weight and their tow capacity and think if they are around that or under, they are good. When in fact, that couldn't be further from the truth. A perceived 4000 lb trailer can become 5-6000 lbs and really overload a tow vehicle rated for 4500, and then the parachute effect just compounds the problem.
__________________
2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9467.8 (as of 5/26/19)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
Sunline Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2018, 06:01 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 6
SUN #10767
PAquilter is an unknown quantity at this point
I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your input! I'll be digesting what all you've all shared for a while, I think. Right now, my brain is fried so I'm taking a step back for a few days and tending to other matters at home between rain drops & down pours. 2 daughters & their husbands went with me to again look at the 2363 on Tuesday. By that time, I was near sure I wouldn't be buying it for myself, thanks to the advice and explanations received here and other research, but one of those couples were interested in seeing it for themselves and I'd asked the guys to point out other things I ought be looking for in checking out used campers, but may have missed with my glazed-over enthusiastic eyes. (They like being able to turn the tables and teach me things!) All agreed it was a VERY nice camper in very good condition and well cared for, with many extras thrown in worth hundreds of dollars. Had it not been for the weight issues, they would have concurred with me getting it. The sticker on the outside front by driver's side was somewhat worn, but we did determine that the 2495 figure was KG not POUNDS! In the owners manual GVWR was 5500, UVW was 4306, with 34gal Fresh water = 282lbs and 10gal LP gas @42, that allowed for 867lbs of cargo. Now, aware of other factors, it clearly was too much for my TV. Will be a nice one for someone though! Thanks ever so much everyone. You are a great group, and maybe I'll yet find a suitable TT that is also a Sunny, and could hang out here more, go to meet ups, and enjoy some great people! PA Quilter (but not a Sunny owner---YET!)
__________________

__________________
PAquilter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Member saying Hello Richard Owl Introduce Yourself 6 11-07-2013 09:56 PM
Sunline "SR" "Slide Room" and "Solaris" Decals EMD_Driver Accessories, Parts, Etc. For Sale 7 05-09-2011 08:53 PM
Saying hello. New to the site but a Sunline owner since 99 Finelinevan Introduce Yourself 9 10-30-2009 07:42 PM
Saying Hello-new member Stan Introduce Yourself 4 08-21-2007 08:12 AM
Hello All, Just the Kern family saying hello! Eclipse Introduce Yourself 12 04-20-2007 12:09 PM


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sunline RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:44 PM.


×