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Old 05-31-2017, 07:51 AM   #1
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Noob in South New Jersey (1988 T-2263)

Greetings everyone!

I recently purchased a 1988 Sunline Satellite T-2263 from a member of my radio club. It's been in his family for many, many years, but no longer meets his needs and is in need of some TLC he does not have the time to complete. While searching for more information (why blaze new ground when you can learn from others who have already been down a similar path) regarding the issues that require immediate attention.

I grew up tent camping in CA, spent summer vacations tent camping in places like Humboldt National Forest, Manzanita Lake at Mt Lasson and bicycle camping along the coast of Oregon and CA. I relocated to NJ about 11 years ago, got married and started a family. We have a 5 yr old (5 and a half if you ask my daughter) and want to give my family the wonderful experience and foster the fond memories I have from camping.

My T-2263 already has water intrusion issues, on the "passenger" side, so I know I have some work to do to make it a good solid camper. Since this is my first camper, I have many questions, but I will use the search function before asking here (I'm not a noob to forums, search several times first, then search some more using different terms and/or order, then post question if still not sure).

My first order of business is to identify and stop the water intrusion. Then I'll open up the known damaged areas, dry out the camper with a de-humidifier, remove/repair/replace the damaged parts and put humpty-dumpty back together again. The awning needs to have the fabric/vinyl replaced (I need help identifying what specific manufacturer of this awning is). I want to replace all the carpet with vinyl or some other kind of durable flooring that is easier to keep clean.

The biggest question is where to start? Do I reseal the corners and any leaks in the roof first, or do I open things up first to determine what needs to be done. I do not have access to indoor space, so this will be stored outside in the elements.

Once the repairs are complete, I have some upgrades in mind, like adding solar panels to the roof, upgrading the electrical (batteries, charge controller and inverter), add an access/pass through panel for amateur radio antenna connections and replace leveling jack stands with crank-down kind.

If you made it this far and you're still awake, reply below to let me know.

Stay tuned, there will be many more questions to come....
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Old 05-31-2017, 09:06 AM   #2
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I've identified the awning as "Faulkner" and found the following website which carries used parts and replacement awning fabric/vinyl - RV Awnings New/Used/Rebuilt. Anybody done business with them?
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Old 05-31-2017, 02:38 PM   #3
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Welcome aboard. You'll find a wealth of information and very helpful members here. My 2 cents, get it sealed the best you can if it's staying outside. If you plan on tearing things apart from the inside to repair it, you may find you'll have to remove some of those outside moldings that you already sealed but I think that will be the least of your problems. I think once you start tearing apart the inside , you'll have a better idea where the water was coming in. You may have to put a tarp over it to protect the outside while you have it apart. I had to do the floor in my Sunline and I used a cheap Laminate I bought at the Depot. Pretty easy job once the plywood under it was solid. You can buy Awning fabrics on ebay that are universal and will fit most any brand of awning, Some of the hardware parts maybe a little more difficult to find for Faulkner awnings. Submit some pictures when you get a chance and wait for responses to pour in. Good Luck.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:55 PM   #4
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Welcome from Maryland.

I'm not sure where I'd start on the repairs. I see people do it different ways.

Some repair interior walls from the inside without removing the aluminum siding. But I wonder if your not better off removing the siding. I'm a novice so take it for what it's worth.

It helps to understand that, unlike a house, a camper is built from the inside out. Not all cabinet screws are accessible without removing the siding.

Member Thomacine has a good thread on here documenting what he's endured recently and member JohnB has numerous threads with tons of pics.

Good luck on your project.
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Old 05-31-2017, 06:54 PM   #5
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Greetings from the CT/RI border. First things first! We need pictures, Dude! LOL!


And for your reading pleasure, check out what I have been doing to mine to get it ready to camp this season. It may help answer some of your questions without having to dig.


Fixing up my 2000 Sunline Solaris T-2653


This is my 3rd camper and my kids were 5 and 8 when we started and are now 18 and 21 so lets get busy as time flies.


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Old 06-01-2017, 07:35 AM   #6
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Welcome to the SOC and congrats on the 2263! You get plenty of help here and, if you can, post pixs b/c it helps us too.
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:19 PM   #7
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Hi UNIXdude,

Welcome to Sunline Owners Club!! Glad to have you with us and congrats on your Sunny. UNIX, that is unique screen name, like a computer UNIX system maybe?

Thanks for the camping time line too. That was very nice. And good for you getting your kids into this early on. Make those memories!!! They last a life time.

Now to your camper. Where to start... I agree, you need to stop any new water from getting in, even if this is a temporary fix. One option which can be fast is a big tarp and a lot of rope so it will not blow off in the wind. Since you do not have an inside place to work at, sooner or later odds are high you will need that tarp anyway.

A heads up on caulking if you go that route as your temporary fix, do not use silicone for a roof sealant. While silicone is a good product, it has very limited uses on an RV and the roof is not one of them. It cannot handle the flex of the camper and the heat and cold to stay bonded. It is not a long term repair, it is short lived. And the worst, it is extremely hard to get off the silicone residue to have better product stick. See this product as a sealant. It is primarily for rubber roofs but it will bond to your metal roof and aluminum moldings to create a good seal that is made for an RV application. https://dicorproducts.com/product/ep.../#installation

If you are going to do a repair, the need is to find the leak source or sources. There may be more then 1 and it may not be where you think it started. But you have to start somewhere. Posting pics really helps us see what you are up against and we can make better suggestions.

Here is another help, a moisture meter you can scan the inside walls and ceiling to see what is wet behind it. See this post for more help on this. Moisture Meters For Inspecting a Camper

Once you see how big or small the water issue is, then it is better to understand how to start the repair. There may be a lot more wet behind the wall that you are not seeing. By the time the water is visible on the inside, it could be wet inside the wall, ceiling or floor in many areas for a real long time. Years worth.

You talked about searching to forum. There is an embedded software search in our forum software. It does work but it is hard to get hits on things in some cases. Our admin made us a Custom Google Search for Sunline Club. This search tool works a lot better. Book mark this link. Put your topic in the "Google Custom Search" box and hit go and read on...

https://cse.google.com/cse/home?cx=0...95:95x3m3w6lto

When you get into this repair, take out a new post in the Repair and Maintenance section so we can keep your repair all in one place. This helps you and others in the future when they start looking.

Hope this helps and good luck.

John
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Old 06-01-2017, 06:42 PM   #8
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I just checked out some of your pictures and answered your question about what's under the step. Like John B mentioned, start a new thread with those pics and any repair pics as those albums are nice but hard to do Q&As.


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Old 06-01-2017, 07:11 PM   #9
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Thank you everyone for the warm welcome!

@JohnB - you are absolutely correct, UNIX, the awesome operating system (I'm allergic to windows and my checkbook is allergic to mac's).

The water issues are in 2 known spots and I'm sure there is more lurking. The floor inside the first door, closest to the tow hitch, is rotted out and has a plywood band-aid on it. The wall below the dinner table, on the same wall as the door is bulging out and damp at the bottom.

The second place, which is worse, is on the same side of the trailer, but on the back wall, to the left of the rear door when you are outside, looking in, as well as the back wall. The floor is rotted in that corner, so I know I have to address the floor sooner, rather than later. I'll get some pictures posted on my supermotors account soon.

In a quick glance on the outside, the vinyl cover over the molding holding the corners together is breaking down and will need to be replaced. I was thinking about resealing all of the corners, but I am slightly hesitant until I know if I going to have to remove any of the exterior aluminum panels. There is also a light fixture in the middle of the back wall that looks like it needs to be sealed. If I'm lucky, that will be the source of the water, in the back half at least.

If there is anyone in the Philadelphia area, I'm on the other side of the Delaware River, that would like to stop by and help me assess what needs to be done as the best order to do the work in, that would be awesome. PM me if you're interested.

My high level plan is the stop the water source/sources on the exterior, then attack the rear bedroom first, probably ripping out the bed and walls, then setting up a dehumidifier to really dry it out. Then rebuild what needs rebuilding. Once completely done with the rear, then attack the front room. I don't want it to be down all summer, so by breaking up the work, I'm crossing my fingers I can still take my daughter out camping while it is a work-in-progress. Obviously, I will not know until I get in there and start pealing the layers off the onion.

Any recommendations on what products to use the replace the interior wall with? I'm assuming about 1/3 of mine will need to be replaced, so to make it consistent and aesthetically pleasing, I will probably end up replacing all of the walls.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
Any recommendations on what products to use the replace the interior wall with? I'm assuming about 1/3 of mine will need to be replaced, so to make it consistent and aesthetically pleasing, I will probably end up replacing all of the walls.

Wall board has always been an issue. Some lumber yards have 1/8" paneling, choices are limited but it is an option. It is a search and destroy mission finding this.

Anther option which is close to what Sunline did or does on the newer campers.

They use 1/8 luan plywood. It is light, can be glued and stapled to the wall studs but yet will hold what can be glued to it as a covering. Then use commercial wall paper and glue it to the luan. SEP (Steve) is doing this now I believe on his camper. We have both found the commercial wall paper option but he may be the first to glue it on. The commercial wall paper is a heavy and strong wall paper used in commercial buildings. What I saw was 4 feet wide. Steve I think found 2 foot wide. This is tough stuff and would hold up, but we have to sort out the glue. This gives you lots of choices to pick from and can look really good when done.

Hope this helps.

John
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Old 06-02-2017, 06:58 PM   #11
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Old 06-02-2017, 07:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Wall board has always been an issue. Some lumber yards have 1/8" paneling, choices are limited but it is an option. It is a search and destroy mission finding this.

Anther option which is close to what Sunline did or does on the newer campers.

They use 1/8 luan plywood. It is light, can be glued and stapled to the wall studs but yet will hold what can be glued to it as a covering. Then use commercial wall paper and glue it to the luan. SEP (Steve) is doing this now I believe on his camper. We have both found the commercial wall paper option but he may be the first to glue it on. The commercial wall paper is a heavy and strong wall paper used in commercial buildings. What I saw was 4 feet wide. Steve I think found 2 foot wide. This is tough stuff and would hold up, but we have to sort out the glue. This gives you lots of choices to pick from and can look really good when done.

Hope this helps.

John
Guys,

Here is the wallboard that I used. It was 10 bucks a sheet at Home Depot. It is just about the right thickness. The commercial vinyl wallpaper is 27" wide and comes in double rolls so I got enough to do just the back room that had the damage.

Steve
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wallboard info.jpg (116.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg wallpaper for shasta 1.jpg (75.1 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg wallpaper for shasta 2.jpg (62.5 KB, 5 views)
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Old 06-02-2017, 07:30 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
















The camper looks good and the damage doesn't look too bad. You may want to get some dicor non-leveling caulk and cover over the screws on the corner/roof trim since the vinyl trim cover is missing in some spots that I could see.

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Old 06-02-2017, 08:17 PM   #14
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Hi again, trying to line up your pics to your wording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
The water issues are in 2 known spots and I'm sure there is more lurking. The floor inside the first door, closest to the tow hitch, is rotted out and has a plywood band-aid on it. The wall below the dinner table, on the same wall as the door is bulging out and damp at the bottom.
The entry door


The table area




Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
The second place, which is worse, is on the same side of the trailer, but on the back wall, to the left of the rear door when you are outside, looking in, as well as the back wall. The floor is rotted in that corner, so I know I have to address the floor sooner, rather than later.
I think this is the rotted floor you mean, yes/no?






And the back wall



Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
In a quick glance on the outside, the vinyl cover over the molding holding the corners together is breaking down and will need to be replaced. I was thinking about resealing all of the corners, but I am slightly hesitant until I know if I going to have to remove any of the exterior aluminum panels. There is also a light fixture in the middle of the back wall that looks like it needs to be sealed. If I'm lucky, that will be the source of the water, in the back half at least.
The degrading vinyl cover


The vinyl cover that is breaking down is not really a sealing cover against water. It is a cover over the screws to make it look nicer. And that said, having the cover on helps keep some wet off the screws that can rust, so on the vertical corners, it helps.

The leaks are normally the sealants behind the moldings that the screws are holding. And this is where ever that molding is. The corners, the gutter rails, windows, cargo holes, entry doors etc.

Your back wall pic has hints of water coming down from above. That corner molding or the roof rear seam or gutter rail may have leaked in.

Under the table might be from a bad window frame seal. Or something up higher.

If you go up on a step ladder from the side, look close at the roof to the siding joint and the back and front walls joint from the roof to the siding, take some pics there. Oh and heads up, you cannot walk directly on the roof. You need to put a tarp down and then pieces of 3/8 or thicker plywood to spread the load across several rafters. Like 2 ft x 4 ft small sheets. The metal roof will not hold you between the rafters. Also you do not know yet if there is a rotted rafter. Feel the rafter that is is a solid as the rest of them.

What you are looking for is cracked, gaped and missing sealants under the moldings. I have a boat load of pics on water entry but they are the new robber roofs. Yours has a metal roof and the transitions from the metal roof to the siding may be a little different. If you can post some pics of those areas we can see what you have.

Also, this is a great place to start your new thread on identifying and sealing out your water leaks.

Oh, and that full size Bronco is looking good! Haven't seen one of them in a while. That must be a mid 90's one?

Hope this helps

John
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:42 PM   #15
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Sorry for not labeling the pictures.

Here's the band-aided front entry:




This is actually the front cargo hold,under the seat behind the tow hitch, accessed from the drivers side through the small trap door.




Here's the wall over the front door that has the plywood band-aid:



This is the "drivers side" where the vinyl cover over screws is missing:



Here's the ceiling, in the back corner where the floor is disintegrating:



Here's a better shot of the corner:




My tow vehicle - it's hard to tell, but it has a 4" lift and those are 35" tires (35x12.5r15). It's a 1995 Bronco that I have owned since Nov 1998. It's been coast to coast 3 times. I bought it in the SF Bay Area. It used to be my daily driver until gas shot up over $3 / gal

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Old 06-02-2017, 09:08 PM   #16
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Thanks, these new pics and labels help

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
Here's the band-aided front entry:

OH, OK, I see this area now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
This is actually the front cargo hold:



Here's the wall over the front door that has the plywood band-aid:

These pics show the water at the ceiling line meaning the water came in from the roof seams. The front cargo hole may be a combo of water intrusion. Some coming down from the roof and some getting in from a corner molding or the cargo door seal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
This is the "drivers side" where the vinyl cover over screws is missing:



Here's the ceiling, in the back corner where the floor is disintegrating:



Here's a better shot of the corner:

That ceiling leak points to water from the roof. The rear corner or the rear seam or both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIXdude View Post
My tow vehicle - it's hard to tell, but it has a 4" lift and those are 35" tires (35x12.5r15).

Cool on the Bronco.

On water leaks from above, like a roof leak. The leak may be slow at the start and the water collects in the roof area that is filled with batt insulation. The insulation soaks up the water like a sponge and eventually it becomes saturated and the water starts flowing down hill. Gravity will take that water as far down as it can go.

Corners are sometimes passage ways to allow water to come down from the roof to the floor area and under the floor area. Wall studs also can do this.

As the leak progresses for years, yes what you have is not new, the damage keeps spreading from new water getting in and maybe even more infiltration areas. By the time you see a leak on the inside, it may have been 1 to 2 years or longer behind the wall.

Look up at the roof seams, the gutter rail screws, the corner moldings, doors, windows for cracked, dried up and missing sealants. Gutter rail screws can some times turn into water wicks. The screws rust, water follows the rust into the wood, the wood rots and the screw rusts more creating a bigger hole to let water in. And there are a lot of gutter rails screws.

Hope this helps

John

PS. Odds are good the moisture meter I linked you in the prior post can tell how far across the ceiling and the walls as scanned on the inside your water infection has progressed. See this post, iambucket created a wetness map of the camper from roof to floor. He had a different meter as that is what he had but you can see how far the water damage has progressed. Water in Front Left Basement
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Old 06-02-2017, 09:37 PM   #17
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I've been looking at the following "kit" to re-seal all of the corners:

Corner Seal Kit - 1.5" - Seal Design LLcSeal Design LLc

I don't know if their product lives up to the advertising ....

Weather and time permitting, I will try to get pictures of the roof. My gut feeling is the corner seals are the culprit, but I will not know until I get the walls off and assess the damage. As for the rear bedroom, to get access to the flooring and the walls, I'm assuming that will be almost a full gut-job. I can't start into it until after the Field Day weekend (the last full weekend in June). When I start the project, I will start a new thread in the appropriate section.
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:37 AM   #18
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I've been looking at the following "kit" to re-seal all of the corners:

Corner Seal Kit - 1.5" - Seal Design LLcSeal Design LLc

I don't know if their product lives up to the advertising ....
The corner seal kit has come up recently asking the same questions, Anyone use it and does it work? It is new in the big picture of things, nothing says no, do not use it but having years of field tested time on it is not there yet. It for sure is better then your original putty tape that is way past it's useful sealing life.

See this response to Thomascine in her camper rebuild post. Water Damage Assessment and Repair

As FYI, there is "putty tape" and "butyl tape" and both are very different in long lasting. Both had pros and con's. The "right" brand and kind of butyl will out last the putty tape but you need to deal with the one con which is it has a higher dirt attraction to the exposed edge then the putty tape. It is super sticky and that is why it works better and it stays that way longer. That can be cured with non leveling Dicor over the exposed edge. Butyl also costs a little more, not much. On the OEM scale of things doing butyl will add cost to the camper. When someone is doing a restore and dealing with water infection spending a little extra is not a concern to get longer life from the seal.

The corner seal kit is sort of a middle ground between the putty tape method and the method I listed in my link. I may have over killed it, but did that on purpose. We need someone to try the corner seal kit and report back in 10 to 15 years how it is holding up... Creating the sealants on a camper is an industry wide issue. It is a tough problem and cost to make it work over a real long time comes into play at the OEM level.

Thanks

John
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Old 06-03-2017, 08:50 AM   #19
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The corner seal kit has come up recently asking the same questions, Anyone use it and does it work? It is new in the big picture of things, nothing says no, do not use it but having years of field tested time on it is not there yet. It for sure is better then your original putty tape that is way past it's useful sealing life.

See this response to Thomascine in her camper rebuild post. Water Damage Assessment and Repair

As FYI, there is "putty tape" and "butyl tape" and both are very different in long lasting. Both had pros and con's. The "right" brand and kind of butyl will out last the putty tape but you need to deal with the one con which is it has a higher dirt attraction to the exposed edge then the putty tape. It is super sticky and that is why it works better and it stays that way longer. That can be cured with non leveling Dicor over the exposed edge. Butyl also costs a little more, not much. On the OEM scale of things doing butyl will add cost to the camper. When someone is doing a restore and dealing with water infection spending a little extra is not a concern to get longer life from the seal.

The corner seal kit is sort of a middle ground between the putty tape method and the method I listed in my link. I may have over killed it, but did that on purpose. We need someone to try the corner seal kit and report back in 10 to 15 years how it is holding up... Creating the sealants on a camper is an industry wide issue. It is a tough problem and cost to make it work over a real long time comes into play at the OEM level.

Thanks

John
Since it's $95 + shipping and comes with 100' of corner seal, I'm think I'm gonna bite the bullet and order it. The next question is size, do I need the 1.5" or 2" wide kit?

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Old 06-03-2017, 05:23 PM   #20
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Since it's $95 + shipping and comes with 100' of corner seal, I'm think I'm gonna bite the bullet and order it. The next question is size, do I need the 1.5" or 2" wide kit?

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Great! Please create a post on it when you do it. It would be interesting to seen it in action.

The width, from what I have read you measure the inside corner so it is close to but not wider then the internal surface of the molding. Meaning it is wide enough to line both sides of the corner but not hang out.

I'm assuming you will not have your corner molding off yet before you order, here is one thought on how to measure it.

Get down on the ground and look up at the end of the molding. On the newer campers, I can see the end of the molding and the siding joint. Using a tape measure try and create the inside measurement of both corners using a tape measure. This then gives you the max dimension the tape needs to be.

I do not know if you can trim the tape on the camper. If this is anything like Eternabond tape, you have to cut it before you install it. No way to really trim it on the camper. But, butyl and putty tape your can trim with a plastic putty knife but suspect the corner seal with the fleece backing will not allow that.

Hope this helps

John

PS. When you get to taking the molding off, cleaning it up and then straightening it out, ask away. These links which are parts of other repair post may help show you some tips on doing this. These links sort of drop in the middle of the post to the specific area. Other areas of those posts may help in rebuilding your camper.

This post helps on the cleanup of the old putty tape on the camper
A Winter Project - Slide Opening, Frame Repair (Picture heavy)

Here is cleaning up and straightening the corner moldings
A Winter Project - Roof Repair (Picture heavy)

To get the molding to release and not bend so badly, use a heat gun and warm the molding to help release the putty tape. Doing this in the winter and spring even late fall, the heat gun is almost a must. In the high heat of summer in the 80's and above, it may release on it's own. Or if the tape is all dried out it might come off pretty easy. Just try and not kink the molding when taking it off. Slight bends can be straightened out fairly easy. A kink, that is more of an issue.
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