2004 & Older Slide Floors. Something you should check.

[JohnB]

Hi Fellow Sunliners

This is a friendly fellow Sunline Owners Club News bulletin.

If you have a travel trailer or 5th wheel with a slide year 2004 or older, or even some of the early 2005’s, there is a possibility that yours may be constructed like my 2004 T310SR. I had water enter thru the Darco vapor barrier due too partly bad luck…(lucky me…) and the method used for constructing the slide that was in practice at the time.

From my research into many other high end TT’s slide construction, Sunline followed somewhat RV industry practice for the most part and normally on the higher end of the industry. However even the industry has gone thru learnings over the years on how to build a slide system. It has been an evolution since they first came out.

In the 2005 model year, Sunline went to the next generation of slide floor and forward until the last 2007 models. They may have been some of the first RV companies to change methods. We do not know yet if all of the 2005 TT’s have it, but they went to a plastic coated bottom slide system verses a Darco polypropylene wrap vapor barrier over OSB board. We know at least 1, 2005 5th wheel still has the older method. The 5’ers may not have changed until later.

My 2004 model TT has the Darco polypropylene wrap vapor barrier over OSB board and as such there where exposed holes in the Darco barrier for screws to hold the floor on with. Those holes create, if they exist on your camper, a water entry point into the area above the vapor barrier if all the right conditions exist.

Some which are: The slide is open during a heavy rain, the camper was on a seasonal site with the slide open most of the time increaseing the wet weather odds or even hosing down the side of the slide during washing the camper. If your slide has those holes, the next thing is sort of random luck, good or bad for you to have the problem. The front of my slide has the same holes as the back of the slide. The front never had any water entry. The rear, well I was not so lucky.

This is what my floor looked like when I removed it.




The piece removed.


I bought this camper 3 years old and the infection may have occurred by the prior owner or sitting on the dealers lot with the slide open for months on end. It also did not have a slide topper. The slide topper may slightly decrease the odds of this happening, but given the right conditions it still can occur.

My camper is now all fixed up good as, if not better then, new. There is a complete Pic-o-gram of the repair here on SOC along with pictures showing how the water can get in on page 4. See here. Slide Floor Water Damage

If your camper has small holes in the black vapor material along the bottom ends, front and rear of the slide that look like these:





Now is the time to check and cover them up before the water intrusion problem exists on your unit. Before you cover them up, press up for softness in the wood and or take a flash light and ice pick and look up and around thru those holes for soft wood. If yours has a soft or wet spot, well it is better to repair soon before the damage spreads.

Ideally you install a drip edge on the side of the slide and cover the holes. The link above shows one method of a drip edge. If doing the drip edge is more then you can tackle then at least covering/plugging the holes will prevent a water intrusion.

As a side note, this spring I visited the local RV show in Central Ohio. I looked at every brand there on how the bottom of there slides where built. And from the $80K 5th wheel down to the entry level TT some still used the method of Darco wrapped slide floors. Some took steps to put a 6” wide plastic strip over the slide end to cover the screw holes, some changed the construction all together and went with the plastic coated slide bottom similar to what Sunline did in 2005. And some, brand new in 2010 still had open exposed holes every 6” along the side ends of the slide. It appears some of the RV industry has figured out this problem and taken steps to over come it. And yet some still must not be aware of the issue.

I hope this helps someone prevent a rotted slide floor from happening or at least if you have it, you now know it and get it fixed in the near future before the rot spreads making the damage even that much worse. I myself never knew I had a problem until I went looking.

John

[rich2500]

good post John and I would just like to add that on the 05's with the coated floor there is a problem with the bare osb being exposed on the ends and exposed screw holes underneath allowing water to soak in, so a drip edge is a good idea on that era also.

[Ron & Alice]

Thanks John,
I will have Ron check ours out tomorrow. Gotta love you experts!

[Daffodil1945]

Thanks for the post. I have trouble with my Coachman (02) for several years. Mold got so bad I got sick. It was suppose to be repaired in March but still have mold problem. The manager from the RV place is coming out to the unit Sat. to use some thing to check for leaks. If it is this problem he maybe not find it and think there are no leaks. (I seasonal camp)Thanks again. I hope this might be the answer .

[matti]

while I was resealing all the areas on the slide room I noticed the bottom seal where it attaches to the inner wall was coming off in areas & had sagged down. I also noticed the the (rubber) seal was severely flattened in areas while the ends were still normal. 80% of the screws had been backed (pulled out of the wood)out of the aluminum channel (mostly in the middle where the rubber was flattened) so I re-drilled new holes 1/4 offset to get new wood. Is this flat rubber 3/4 " the original seal as it appears to have had a self stick backing but also there were many staples holding it on also? Is it possible the the slide room is coming in to far & thats why the rubber is flattened?? also what type of seal should I reinstall?

[JohnB]

Hi Matt

Yes, that foam seal is very "flat". See mine



The aluminum angle and the foam seal wavy in the middle


A close up


Not the greatest pic of what we want to see but you can see here the seal is very thin when compressed. This is on the very ends where the angle tapers to match the camper flare


As a patch to help this stick back on, gently peel it back and get some 3M double sided foam sticky tape that is rated for outside. Mine I was able to re-stick it back up to the correct place but soon I know I'm going to need the 3M tape too.

I do not know yet where to buy this to replace. It is on the "have to find" list. Folks who have a very late, like the last, 2004's and newer 2005 to 2007 have a different seal setup as the entire slide floor and trough is different. Their seal is thicker

I have never had any water issues with mine but the seal is 100% intact. The way this vintage of slide is made, that seal was made to be thin.

Now you talked about the aluminum angle and where it stops. The main slide itself stops when the entire slide flange compresses agasinst the the side of the camper and the motor runs out of power. There is what they call a "stop can" on the Lippert slide mechanism and it is suppose to just stop when the main slide flanges compress. The stop can is not intended to be the main system stop. I called Lippert on this and that was what they told me, the slide flanges stop the slide, not the stop can.
or at least that is the way it is suppose to be adjusted





Here is mine


I know that when my side is full in, that foam gasket ends up being very thin when fully compressed. It may be 1/16" to 3/32" It is only about ~ 1/8" to 5/32 maybe 3/16" when the slide is out.

If your looking for new seal material we need to get something thin and close to what we have. I'll hunt some but like I said I have not yet found that part.

Let me know if you turn up anything.

John

[matti]

Hi John, Thanks for all the help & photos as it helps greatly. I was wondering if I could use the kind of foam tape we use to seal a pickup cap (1/4 ")? I will try to take a photo today of what is presently there & I don't think the stapes holding the seal on are original as they are digging in to the channel & I will remove them. As far as the stop cam goes when I retract the slide & it comes all the way in the motor will slip as if there was a clutch & I assume that this is the way its supposed to work. I will be doing the same procedure as what you did on the slide room as the eterna bond tap on the slide roof is starting to peel back & the side seams need to be re caulked. Other then that the bottom seems in pretty good shape. I intend to make this my last TT so I am going over it with a fine tooth comb & getting ahead of any potential problems. I installed a MaxAir power fan in the bathroom & all went well however the original vent frame was showing signs of rusting thru like yours did so I will eventually replace the remaining 2

[JohnB]

Matt

On the foam strip, I'm sure an automotive type could work. The only heads up I would suggest is the compressed thickness. Some foams strips are very thick but very soft and not dense and they squeeze down a long ways. Some foams are more dense and do not compress very much.

The heads up is watch the compressed thickness to what you have now. If you are compressing to say 3/16" and the new stuff will stop at 3/8", well all that extra force is going into the aluminum angle that may bend it or play havoc on the screws. If you have to go thicker as that is all you can get, you may have to reset where the angle is mounted to compensate.

Now on the ratcheting of the slide on the way "in", let me ask these few questions:

1. On the way out when the slide reaches the full "out" position, does the clutch on the slide drive ratchet?

2. And by your comments, when the slide comes full "in" it makes the same ratcheting sound? This is not all bad just different and may point to something else.

3. When the slide come in, how do the slide seals look being compressed by the slide flange? Any chance of a pic?

4. Did you ever notice does the stop can touch way in advance of the slide seals being fully compressed? Trying to figure out what is stopping the motor, the slide seals or the stop can and the way your TT frame is built

Your 2004 should be a Venture slide actuator unless we learn something new here. That was the style Lippert was using during that time. Does your slide actuator look like this:



Here is the motor off the unit


Each time we troubleshoot a slide, we learn a few new things Sunline did on their slide system. The last learning was in the last 2004's before the 2005's came out, some 2004's had the new slide floor upgrades. I thought the changed that with the 2005 model year. Nope, as Ron and Alice have a 2004 made just about before the model year changed and theirs is the new slide redesign. I missed that by 6 month build date on mine...

Thanks

John

[matti]

Hi John Here are some photos. As you can see the aluminum channel was about 2" away from the seal on one end & did not even touch the seal. I could actually put my hand up & into the trailer!!! I removed all the screws 3/4 of the way down & the bent the channel into towards the frame. I closed the slide room & went under & marked where the channel was pushed out to after hitting the seal. I then slid the room in & reattached the screws while lining up the channel to the new mark. closed the room & all is well now. I did adjust the stop cam as it was about 3" away from the frame while the room was in so I closed the room until I got a good seal without crushing the side seals & then adjusted the cam to the frame. I found the little holes in the bottom poly just like what you had but thank G-d no floor rot so I sealed them up.



The clutch does ratchet when it comes to a full out. The seals looked like they were completely flattened & so I adjusted the cam stop as described. My actuator is the same as what you show. I picked up 10' feat of foam seal that "sunybrook' trailers use for their bottom slide seal & I will let you know how it compresses

[matti]

Hi John,
I installed 8' of the new bottom seal which is 1 3/4 wide & then closed the slide room. I am extremely pleased with the amount of compression which matched the remaining seal. I can send you a 2" sample if you want so you can feel the density as I think this is an excellent replacement for the original.

[JohnB]

Matt, wow..... your slide was for sure out of adjustment. The bottom aluminum angle being that far out... that one just does not add up how they could of had it like that. But stranger things has happened before.

Glad you have this sorted out. Not having a good good compression on the seal on the bottom can allow road water when wet out come in the camper if the rains are heavy enough.

Now to clutch ratchet. Just asking so I have this straight.

It appears for sure that when the slide extends "out" and reaches full out, at the end of travel you hear the clutch ratchet (like a cordless drill ratchet) then you let your finger off the out button.

Originally Posted by matti

The clutch does ratchet when it comes to a full out. The seals looked like they were completely flattened & so I adjusted the cam stop as described. My actuator is the same as what you show. I picked up 10' feat of foam seal that "sunybrook' trailers use for their bottom slide seal & I will let you know how it compresses

Now on the retract "in" travel, does your ratchet when you are full in or does it just make a moan and stop, no ratchet? Once the movement stops you just take your finger off the "in" button.

If so that is the same as mine and many others. I thought I understood yours ratcheted on the way in.

Good find on the seal material. Sunnybrook, OK that is a lead. There is a Sunnybrook dealer not to far from here. Have to see what he has. Thanks for the tip and lead.

John

[Sunline Fan]

Mine was just a little more spaced out than this before I moved the aluminum angle, but the sealing abilities were about the same. They just couldn't get these things on right if they tried!

Do you have a part number for the seal? Perhaps a receipt from the dealer would show it if it's computer generated? Many dealers carry over supplier part numbers as their own or can reference this. If you can get us the name of the dealer and that part number, we should be able to figure it out. There are many different types of bulb seals (if that's what this is) and other seals used on all sorts of doors and slides, so it's good to figure out exactly what works.

[matti]

John, The ratchet sound occurs only at the end of travel both out & in so I take is normal. In a previous TT (not mentioned the slide room simply stopped even with the button still pressed in. I will get a Part # for the seal today. Getting ready to redo the slide room top where the eterna bond is peeling back..any suggestions on removal??

[matti]

White Horse RV Center in NJ
856-262-1717
Here is the part# for the seal I used
03030024
Closed cell foam seal
used by Sunny-Brook TT
13/4 wide x 3/8"

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by matti

Getting ready to redo the slide room top where the eterna bond is peeling back..any suggestions on removal??

Matt

That is not Eternabond that Sunline used on the slide, it is butyl slide tape. Different animal.

A heat gun and a scraper is your friend in removing the slide tape. Use a rounded nose or really dull scraper (putty knife etc) so you do not dig the roof. Wipe hot goo on a board to clean the putty knife.

On the aluminum part you can use mineral sprits on a rag to get old goo off the flange. On the rubber, light heat and dull scraper. No mineral sprits on rubber.

Use Actetone or Eternaclean as final cleaning on rubber as well to prep before putting EB on.

Use a bead of dicro on the exposed edge of the Eternabond so the roof sealant does not get sticky and full of dirt over time. You do not have to put this on immediately but in a few weeks before stuff gets stuck to that small exposed edge. Use a wet finger, dip in water, and smooth the Dicro. Keeps it from sticking to your finger. It’s amazing. Only do about 2 feet and then wipe finger off and rewet go again.

Good luck

Some time when you have the camera out, take some pics of the slide actuator setup. It ratcheting on the way “in” is not a real problem but I cannot figure out how it is doing it with put a dead hard stop. Unless yours the clutch has a slightly weaker spring in it. I even talked to Lippert and Venture who made the slide motor and clutch. Curiosity now has me for sure.


John

PS Thanks for the Sunnybrook info. Will use I'm sure as 3/8" thick sound justr about right for our vintage slide

[matti]

Hi John,
Here are some photos of the slide Room Actuator
I sprayed Dry Lube on all the moving parts & in moves out & in smoothly. The only time it ratchets is when it comes to a full out & full in after the motor appears to stop.
I found some Rubber molding insert that is used on a "Fleetwood" door & windows #1338888 at $1.75 a foot. as you can see it bends around corners with ease & because it is a tad larger then the vinyl it really locks in & the best part is you don't need to use





screws in the corners

I think this is a great replacement for the Sunny vinyl insert & if you want I can mail you a small piece so you can see how it bends.
I applied Dicor across the entire front roof including the channel to make ready for the eterna bond in about a week. Replacing the slide out topper next week when it comes in. Kicking around the idea of replacing the carpet with bamboo laminate as no matter what you do with your shoes you always seem to get the carpet dirty Ill take some photos if I when I do it. I hope you don't mind me always asking you questions
Matt

[JohnB]

Hi Matt

H'mm, this is not the same slide actuator motor drive that I have in my 2004.

Yours looks like the Lippert motor drive. Mine is the Venture motor drive. This would explain why your clutch ratchets on the way in. The clutch spring I'm sure is different. I know when I talked to Lippert service tech they said they use about 2 kinds back in that time frame so it looks like you have the "other" type.



Thanks for posting that pic. We just learned another puzzle piece in how Sunlines are made and what changed when.

The carpet, I'm assuming yours and mine are the same style as that was the 2004 carpet. The 2005's had different carpet.

In our layout we have enough vinyl tile for the heavy traffic that we can keep the carpet in OK shape. We are also shoe "removers" when we go inside on 98% of the time. I swear dirt on that floor is like a magnet. I can vacuum the tile and 30 seconds later, where did that come from???

Your pics of the seals are not showing. The link is broke. Did you move the picture on your photo bucket account? If you PM a moderator with the new links/location we can edit the post and put them in for you.

No worries on the questions. That is how we all learn, by asking questions. We all take away different learning's from members questions and fixing things.

John

[JohnB]

Matt

I went to your photo site. The 2 pics you posted are not there, did you delete them?

I did find this one, is this the molding you are talking about?

[matti]

Hi John, Yes that is one of them (trying to get the hang on Photobucket
But the links will not work??? They are on the Photo Bucket site so I don't know what the issue is?? ( here is the direct link) http://s1239.photobucket.com/albums/...tiredtraveler/

We also take our shoes off but the dirt still manages to get there??? The molding works excellent & notice...NO screws!!!

[JohnB]

Matt,

Well I don't know what to say, they are now showing up and they are on your web site?? I looked last night and there was only the one.

I am envious of how good a shape your decals are. Your prior owner must of did something to help protect them. Mine has about 2 1/2 to 3 years of no TLC before I took ownership and that did mine in.

The rubber strip looks really good. Is it a little off white or eggshell in color? It looks a little cream colored in the pic. Not bad just not high bright white.

John