Which model Sunline can I tow?

[WayneG]

Would a trailer with a gavr of 5500 fit in my weight rating safely?
Wayne

[OhhWell]

Wayne,

Did you mean GAWR? If so, that is just the weight the axle(s) are rated to carry. What you should try to get is the dry weight of the trailer.

If you can find the trailer on the NADA website

Prices & Used Values for RVs, Travel Trailers & more - NADAguides

And follow to where it appraises the value it will also list the dry weight on alot of them.

If you keep your gear light and it is just the two of you, it's possible that a trailer with a dry weight of even as high as 4500lbs could be no problem. Remember that you don't want to go too long either unless you get a hensly hitch.

[JohnB]

Hi Wayne

Where you able to turn up any more info?

I filled in what you gave us in blue.

1. GVWR: 6, 600#
2. The GAWR-Front: frt 3160
3. GAWR-Rear. rr 3900

Then on your truck we need to know the

4. The year: 2001
5. Model: Sequoia
6. Engine size: 4.7 liter V8
7. 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive: 4 wheel drive
8. Does it have the towing package
9. Truck rear axle ratio
9A. Any extra options groups you have in the truck above the standard if you know them.

10. GCWR. (Gross Combined Weight Rating) 11,800#

11. We need to know the total weight of the people inside the truck including any pets.

12. We need to know the total weight of the absolute “must have” extra things inside the truck when you go camping. These are things that cannot go in the camper and must be in the truck. It might be 150# of stuff that are essential to a pleasant experience of going camping.

13. Here is one request you may not know right now, but is the absolute best way to figure this out and you are then armed with real world numbers. Need an actual scaled front and rear axle weight of the truck with all people and pets inside, full tank of gas and the “must” have extra stuff.

14. While your digging, here is one more rating. It is the receiver (some times called hitch) that is on the back of your truck.

15. If by chance there is any mention to a curb weight of your truck in the manual and by really strange chance the split of the curb weight to the front and rear axle.



I found this here, can you tell me if this is your options package? While I do not like taking off these types of sites as the info can be very wrong here is a stab at it.



2001 Toyota Sequoia SR5 4dr SUV 4.7L V8 4-speed Automatic Features and Specs


It lists:

• Wheel base: 118.1 in.

• Maximum towing capacity: 6500 lbs.
• Maximum payload: 1430 lbs.
• Gross weight: 6500 lbs.
• Curb weight: 5070 lbs.

If you found the GCWR in your manual to be 11,800# that semi lines up with these numbers. Stock curb weight of 5,070# + a tow rating of 6,500# = 11,500 which is under the GCWR you told us.



The problem with curb weights is they can often times be without all the options and they can add up to 300 to 400# more. There is no mention if that 5,070# curb weight is 4 x 4 or 2 wheel drive and any other options.


By this site it seems to point to you have the "Limited" version due to you telling us the GVWR was 6,600.



Toyota Sequoia Compare - Engines and Performance - MSN Autos


If that is the case then these are the numbers.


Standard Towing (lb.)
6200
Standard Payload (lb.)
1305 Max Payload (lb.)
1305 Standard GVWR (lb.)
6600 Max GVWR (lb.)
6600

If I use those numbers, GVWR of 6600 - 1305 payload = 5,295 curb weight

5,295# + 6,200# towing = 11,495 as a GCW which still does not match your 11,800# in owners manual for GVWR.

We start this process trying to have a good idea on what the truck weighs empty, add all passenger weight, add all must have items in the truck and that gives us a real GVW.

I'm going to "guess" so you can see this until you can give some more info.

5,295 curb weight + 350# of passengers + 100# of must have gear = 5,745# truck and no TT.

Taking the 11,800# GCWR - 5,745# = 6,055# of pull rating left with 0% reserve for wind drag and hills. If we use a somewhat bare minimum of 10 or 15% reserve for TT frontal area drag and little hills, 11,800# - 15% is 1,770# reduction in pulling or resetting the max pulling number to 11,800 - 1,770# = 10,030# as a max pull weight. I will not recommend when towing a TT to use all the 100% pull capacity a truck has on paper as those ratings never take into account the wind drag a TT can give. If you never drive about 45mph then going closer to 100% is not so much and issue.

With that, 10,030 - 5,745# GVW truck = 4,285# of TT for pulling the "loaded" camper.

A 4,285# loaded TT should have a 13% loaded tongue for stable towing or 557# tongue weight.

I do not know the axle weights of your truck so I cannot tell of the rear axle can take on 600# of WD hitch and TT tongue weight. That is if you have a weight distributing receiver to start with.

Not knowing much more you are looking for a "loaded" camper in the 4,000# range and a tongue weight not much more then 500 to 600# and that has to be verified your receiver can take it and your rear axle. This also assumes I have the truck weights right.

As you can see a whole lot of assuming going on with out a real scaled rear axle and front axle weight and knowing your receiver.

The Bayside PU you have, that is a nice unit. We had a 2004 Mesa. I "think" they are a 3,600# GVWR PU which loaded may weigh in at ~ 3,400#. That is lower profile camper but those higher PU's catch wind too but not like a TT.

Sunline use to make many single axle TT's that fit in your weight range. When you get into the double axle units really need to watch the weights. There may be a few.

Also to note I used the wording "loaded" TT. It is not hard in a small unit like that to gain 600 to 700# of camping gear. So be looking at dry weights 600 to 700# less then the "loaded" weight.

I hope this helps. If you can get some axle weights with people and must haves items inside we can get a lot closer. That and what your receiver can handle.

Hope this helps and good luck.

John

[WayneG]

John
I really am appreciative of the help that you have given. I am going to have the Sequoia weighed this eek end.
I noticed a T2363 in the for sale column. Is this something I could handle?

Wayne

[OhhWell]

At 3750lbs dry and a hitch weight of 550lbs dry, it should be fine. You will just have to watch that hitch weight (Going off the data on your hitch listing a TW max of 640lbs). Luckly the storage under the bed is in the rear and can offset that as you add propane and a battery.

Bear in mind though that the 2363 only has two berthing areas.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by WayneG

John
I really am appreciative of the help that you have given. I am going to have the Sequoia weighed this eek end.
I noticed a T2363 in the for sale column. Is this something I could handle?

Wayne

Hi Wayne

Yes, get your truck weights. Full fuel tank, absolute must have things in the truck and no extras. Need a front axle and rear axle weight. This then tells you for sure what you have.

Have to find the receiver rating some how. This is complex sometimes on Toyota's and need to know if it is rated for a weight distribution and at what rating.

The camper, I'm assuming this is the 1995 T2363 you where looking at. That is a popular camper here on the forum and a nice camper. The catalog lists a dry weight of 3,755# and a dry tongue weight of 550#. Which is 14.6% dry tongue. I actually did a tongue weight on 2, T2363's in the last 2 years at M & G's I was at. I did not add them to my tongue weight list and now I can't find them. They may read this post and chime in. I "thought" they where in the 700# ish loaded area.

I did however at Buttonwood a few years ago weight 2 more T2363's. They came in at 650# and 645# the way those folks camped.

With that size camper it is not hard to add about 600 to 800# of gear as it is a very nice layout. The camper is a 5,500# GVWR camper so it has room to add "stuff"

If you added 600# it could weigh in around 4,355# and at 800 it would be 4,555#. With out knowing the weights of your truck yet, it can put you at your trucks limit, just under or maybe a little over. I'm most concerned first on the rear axle rating in the truck on how it can handle the loaded tongue weight. When you come from the scales we can then see for sure.

This I do know, for sure that camper with your truck will need a good WD hitch with a built in anti sway control. For that low slung camper I would recommend the Equal-I-zer brand by Progress Mfg. as long as you are not forced to go to a 1,000# unit which could be a receiver problem for you. The frame is lower to the ground and you will have more ground clearance with the Equal-I-zer. The reese with the DC however does give you an 800# WD bar option and the Reese does work on this camper just ground clearance is close. And for sure get the trunnion bar setup. It adjusts out better.

I will say this, the last 2 folks I helped set up their hitch on this T2363 camper had 1/2 ton pickup trucks, extended cab at least. A friction bar and their truck did not cut it on the interstate. Going to the Dual Cam as they had a Reese helped greatly once hitch was optimized in setup. However both where also dealing with tire flex which is a big part of controlling a camper. They both have new tires over the winter and may just have started towing this season. They may pop in here to tell of their new towing experiences. Back country roads and interstates have different conditions to deal with.

Since your this close on weights, I'll hold off on declaring is this is a good fit our not until you can get your scaled weights and then we can see how this comes out.

Hope this helps

John

[WayneG]

John
Sorry it took me so long to get this information. I got the Sequoia weighed and this is it. I had a full tank of gas but I was the only passenger and I didn't have any camping equipment.
steer axle 2900 lbs.
drive axle 2640 lbs.
Gross weight 5540 lbs.

[JohnB]

Wayne, I see your post but a bit busy right now as son getting married this Saturday and the family is all here. I will respond shortly after the weekend if someone else does not help add this up for you. Be back soon.

John

[WayneG]

John
Thanks for the reply. Congratulations to your son, and I hope everything goes well this weekend.
Wayne

[awellis3]

Originally Posted by larry stone

Why not think about getting a real truck? The cost to fix the broken SUV will be the same as buying a real truck.

Hey, Wayne, we towed a pop-up with a '05 Tundra 4X4 because we do a lot of off-road boondocking. When we fell into a deal on a Sunline, my wife was concerned that that truck would be at its limits for pulling and stopping a 3-ton trailer.
Rest of story: Dealer fell all over himself to get his hands on my '05 and put me in a '10 Tundra with 4-wheel disc brakes and a 11,000+lbs. of towing capacity. Zero percent financing iced the deal. Check with your Toyota store and see what kind of deals they have. If you can wait until August, you'll get a great deal on trade for an '11.

Good luck,
Teach

[JohnB]

Hi Wayne


I have updated the info. Now armed with this here is how this stacks up.

I filled in what you gave us in blue.

1. GVWR: 6, 600#
2. The GAWR-Front: 3160
2A. Scaled front: 2,900
3. GAWR-Rear. 3900
3A. Scaled rear 2,640

3B. Scaled GVW: 5540 lbs

Note on scaled weights from Wayne: “Had a full tank of gas but I was the only passenger and I didn't have any camping equipment.”

4. The year: 2001
5. Model: Sequoia
6. Engine size: 4.7 liter V8
7. 2 wheel drive or 4 wheel drive: 4 wheel drive
8. Does it have the towing package ?
9. Truck rear axle ratio ?

10. GCWR. (Gross Combined Weight Rating) 11,800#
11. Wheel Base: 118.10” Found from here: 2001 Sequioa

Since your scaled weights did not have a passenger I’m going to add that in the end along with camping gear. If you are talking 1 passenger that is not going to break the bank. If you have a entire truck full, well let’s talk again on how many pounds we have for them.

Let’s look at what the truck can handle as far as axle loads.

TV Front axle rating – actual scaled: 3,160 – 2,900 = 260# before reaching the limit.
TV Rear axle rating – actual scaled: 3,900 – 2,640 = 1,260# before reaching the limit.

TV GVWR – Actual scaled GVW: 6,600 - 5,540 = 1,060# before reaching the limit.

From these 3 numbers we can see your sitting real close to the front axle rating. The rear axle has some room for weight however the GVWR is a limit factor that you should only add 1,060# or more cargo to the truck. In this case cargo is anything is weight, your passenger, your pop cooler, lunch box etc. Making an assumption here that your passenger and any camping must haves in the truck, your pop cooler etc add up to 200#. Having the 1,060 – 200# = 860# left for the camper tongue weight and hitch as a maximum. So now we know that the camper “loaded” tongue weight can be. Notice I emphasized loaded tongue weight not the brochure weight that has no gear in it yet. We also need to confirm the receiver on your truck is rated above 860# or that becomes the limiting factor in actual camper tongue weight. Some of the older smaller Toyota's only had a 750# WD rated receiver at least in the small pickups. You will have to confirm this.

Now lets look at the pull ratings. The truck and must have camper gear/people comes out to 5,540# + 200# must haves = 5,740# . Your GCWR is 11,800. Subtracting the 2 we get 11,800 – 5,740 = 6,060# the engine, transmission and rear axle is rated to pull.

Now we enter the TT frontal area wind drag reduction. I do not know if Toyota lists the actual reduction for frontal are of the trailer but it is common that 60 sq feet of area is a limit that once your above that limit pulling performance is affected. And just about any 8 foot wide free standing TT is over that limit. A Hi/Lo is not as it is lower to the ground. Basically putting it this “brick” we pull down the highway eats up power once we start going over about 45 mph and you can start to feel the loss. Think like your towing a big dead stump behind you as that is what it feels like the 1st time.

What we do is add what we call a safety factor or reserve factor now to account for the wind drag of a TT. Here bigger is better. Meaning the more reserve, safety factor you have the more enjoyable your towing will be and the longer your TV will not strain and work so hard.

Now comes the question, what is this reserve factor? I have not ever found one published for a TT. Some use 80% of your tow rating to size the trailer as they do not want to do all this math. Some times it fits well, some times not as well. From my experiences I have 20,000 plus miles towing at 12% less then the GCWR on a low profile non slide Sunline. On the high profile Sunline with a slide I have towed a short time (3,500 miles) at 2% less then GCWR and feared to never go in the winding hills of southern OH. Since we are talking a Sunline with a roof line swept back for better air flow I will pick the 12% rule. This is if you have some minor hills. If your into heavy mountains and gaining 1,000 or more plus feet above seal level the numbers needs to go up higher. AT ~ 8,600 feet you loose 2 cylinders of power on your V8 do to a gas non turbo/super charged engine.

So 12% less then 11,800# is 10,384 as your pulling limit with some reserve capacity. Now taking the pull limit of 10,384 – 5,740# TV and cargo = 4,644# for a TT. If you go to 10% less that ups the TT 236# or to 4,880#. I know this looks low and may raise many eyebrows but I can attest you will not be happy towing a 6,000# loaded TT very far or very long as that is the limit on your truck. I’m conservative in how I do this especially to a first time camper friend towing a TT.

Recapping:

Only add 200# to the truck for passengers and gear to stay within the GVWR of the truck. You can add more if your tongue weight goes down from 860#

The loaded tongue weight of the camper needs to be at or under the rating of your truck receiver. You will need to check that. This should not exceed 860# to stay at or under the GVWR on the truck. You have to use a WD hitch for these kind of tongue weights.

The loaded camper should be no more then 4,600 to 4,800# to have an enjoyable towing experience. The truck will work on hills but your towing a camper and a light truck will work on hills towing a camper. For a first time towing this will be a lot until your get use to it. It will be different then your pop up.

On a 4,600# camper with a 13% loaded tongue weight as an example that is 598# tongue weight. This creates stable towing and is under your 860# limit and odds are better under your receiver WD limit. Even if you are at 15% loaded tongue weight that is 690# tongue and those are still good numbers.

Since you have a shorter wheel base truck get a WD with a combined anti-sway system if you are up in the 4,600# TT. There are many brands out there that will work and are not that expensive. Can help on that too if needed.

Most any of the single axle Sunlines could fit as a big picture statement. Have to check for sure. In the dual axle versions looking at a year 2000 catalog for example the T 1950 has a dry weight of 3450# and a GVWR of 5,000 #. If you add 1,000# of gear that brings you to 4,450# which on paper fits. The T2053 also is in that range. The T2363 starts getting heavier and you may need to drop some gear because of it to stay in that 4500# range. The T2370 may also fit but that is already a 24 foot TT . Will need to carry light in the gear and for sure a good WD hitch and anti-sway control.

If you get one of the bigger ones I listed in time your next truck will be a bigger one. You can also ask around here on the forum with folks who have towed a T1950 or T2053 and what size truck they had. You at least have the V8 version however the smaller one.

I hope this helps and if you or anyone else sees an error please point it out.

Good luck

John

[WayneG]

John
Thanks for the reply. I would like to find a 2053. That for the present would allow me to camp and travel and still keep Susan happy.
Now I just have to find one.
Thanks again to all.
Wayne

[OhhWell]

Very cool. It's great that John takes the time to really dial into these things. Being new to this, I just guestimated when we bought our trailer. What I didn't estimate properly was how much stuff we would bring with us. I probably should have known though as I was very familiar with the wife's packing style on other trips.

We had a 99 burb and believe it or not, the tow rating (Pound wise) is very similar to your Sequia. We put a 28 foot trailer on it because the sunline dry weight was listed at only 4500lbs roughly. Well, we ended up pretty much right at our rated weight for the vehicle and although I had no stability issues, it was a rough trip and I overheated the transmission. I could deal with the slow accelleration but stopping every 30 miles to cool off was a bit much.

Needless to say, we went to a bigger tow vehicle as getting rid of the trailer was obviously not an option. Now we're at about 60% of our max rating fully loaded and can't wait to head down to sanibel for the 4th.

[JohnB]

Wayne and Ohh

I hope this all helps and your very welcome. I do not mind doing this and I too end up learning something new all the time from it. I, like many others here on SOC learned how to sort out these numbers the hard way. There are many TT dealers that do not take the time to help explain this to you. You may get an hour walk thru on the TT and 2 minutes on a WD hitch and sure your can tow it on the truck. Not all dealers are this way, but the stories of too many doing it are all too often including the dealers I bought my 1st TT from.

So here on the camper forums we have no sale to make and only to help a fellow camper out try to sort this out in their head so they can make a better decision.

Good luck on your Sunline search. Keep digging one is bound to show up.

John