truck for towing - Page 2

eqyncrz · 07-12-2010, 10:10 PM

Not a Sunline owner yet, but looking to buy our first trailer, and the Sunlines keep catching my eye. We have a 2004 Chevy Trailblazer, 4WD, rated to tow 6100 lbs maximum. It can tow our 21 ft cuddy on mild hills down to the Bay. 6cyl, 4.2 L, with 3.73 axle ratio. A dealer nearby told me on the phone that it could pull a 2006 27 footer! dry wt 4750 lbs, but gross wt of 7000! Thank you for all the above info, and keeping me from making a huge mistake. I'll keep looking for my first travel trailer.

luvrque · 07-13-2010, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eqyncrz

Not a Sunline owner yet, but looking to buy our first trailer, and the Sunlines keep catching my eye. We have a 2004 Chevy Trailblazer, 4WD, rated to tow 6100 lbs maximum. It can tow our 21 ft cuddy on mild hills down to the Bay. 6cyl, 4.2 L, with 3.73 axle ratio. A dealer nearby told me on the phone that it could pull a 2006 27 footer! dry wt 4750 lbs, but gross wt of 7000! Thank you for all the above info, and keeping me from making a huge mistake. I'll keep looking for my first travel trailer.

Welcome to the Club,

I have boat and trailer that is more than 1,500lbs. heavier than my QUE TT and I can tell you the heavier boat is MUCH easier to pull mainly because it cuts thru the air unlike the box like TT.
I would guess that your 21'boat & trairler weighs app. 5,000lbs. So the way it tows is the way a 3,500lb. TT would feel !
With your TV as stated I would say you should NOT pull a TT over app. 21ft.....NEVER a 25 to 27ft. one.
Maybe he is just trying to sell you that TT....

nasa42a · 07-13-2010, 07:59 AM

PS, Eqyncrz.....

Adding comments to luvrque's observations:

Most folks underestimate the cumulative effect of wind resistance. Whether it's a Que or a 2499, both have a large (tho different-sized) barn door sticking up in the wind behind the tow vehicle. Add that to the weight of what you're towing....and you have a major load factor for the tow vehicle.

When you're looking for your 1st travel trailer, I'd suggest you think through the type of RVing you'll be doing for your 1st several years:
==> In our early years, we were mostly taking 25-60 mile trips with the kids on weekends, with no major hills or strain on the tow vehicle. That argued for one type of trailer and tow vehicle (and budget, of course).
==> Sharon and I are now retired (geezer & geezeress status), and mostly enjoy much longer trips (FL, NM, SC, MI, etc.), being on the road and moving....but wishing a combination of comfort and travel expense control. That argues for an entirely different lash-up....which we now have. (Our Tacoma-as equipped-has a 6500 lb. tow rating for our 4300 lb-loaded trailer).

I suggest that you always check out the actual rated capacity of a tow vehicle....to verify any casual RV-seller's claims. And then always stay at least 10-15% below that limit. (If my employer had always worked me at my absolute limit...or beyond it.... I'd have broken down and/or quit, too!)

If you go to www.hilotrailer.com/towrating.html you'll find a rather complete access to tow vehicle ratings.

Welcome to the club....and good fortune in your search.

Frank

eqyncrz · 07-13-2010, 09:31 AM

thank you both for your insights. Trailerboats.com also has a nice, user friendly database for tow vehicle limits, which is where I found my Trailblazer downrated from 6500 to 6100 lbs. For the time being, it WILL be local, weekend trips mostly, as we are both still working. I had my husband read this entire thread last night. I've compiled a list of lightweight TT's to keep me focused on reality while we search. But thanks again. Whether it ends up being a Sunline or not, this IS a friendly, helpful group!

guss · 07-13-2010, 06:51 PM

Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. I have a good idea now for what I will need for a tow vehicle. I think I will find a 2009 ford f150 , 5.4L Triton V8, 3.93 rear axel ratio. But as you all know its only the beginning. I'll need a good hitch and weight distribution bars. I would like to hear some advice also for these add ons . I should perhaps post my question on the main forum page. Happy camping everyone.
Regards,
Guss & Glenda

Old Fogey · 08-30-2010, 08:28 PM

Thanks to posters for all the detailed explanations. I understand the need to get all the detailed specs and then to measure both truck and trailer loaded to ensure limits are respected and to reduce sway etc. - but I don't have a trailer yet!

I have pulled smaller trailers previously and am considering going back on the road. I already have a truck which suits my needs for other uses. I am looking for a suitable trailer that my truck can handle. My 2007 Toyota Tacoma Access Cab has trailer towing package( max towing cap 6500 lbs), V6 225 HP, 266 lb. Torque at 4000 RPM, 3.727 rear axle ratio. I have been looking at Sunline T2363 and T2370 models (3950 dry, 5500 GVWR). I am concerned about pulling power, as we are retired and plan some long distance travel. With only 266 lb. of torque, what will happen to my mileage when I hit the mountains?

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

luvrque · 08-30-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Fogey

Thanks to posters for all the detailed explanations. I understand the need to get all the detailed specs and then to measure both truck and trailer loaded to ensure limits are respected and to reduce sway etc. - but I don't have a trailer yet!

I have pulled smaller trailers previously and am considering going back on the road. I already have a truck which suits my needs for other uses. I am looking for a suitable trailer that my truck can handle. My 2007 Toyota Tacoma Access Cab has trailer towing package( max towing cap 6500 lbs), V6 225 HP, 266 lb. Torque at 4000 RPM, 3.727 rear axle ratio. I have been looking at Sunline T2363 and T2370 models (3950 dry, 5500 GVWR). I am concerned about pulling power, as we are retired and plan some long distance travel. With only 266 lb. of torque, what will happen to my mileage when I hit the mountains?

Any comments or suggestions are welcome.

I think you should look for a smaller & lighter TT for your truck....IMHO
With plans for some long distance travel, I don't think you would be happy with that setup.
Sorry for the short answer but thats how I feel.

Hematite · 08-31-2010, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvrque

I think you should look for a smaller & lighter TT for your truck....IMHO
With plans for some long distance travel, I don't think you would be happy with that setup.
Sorry for the short answer but thats how I feel.

That pretty much sums it up!

Steve Collins · 08-31-2010, 04:44 AM

My 2453 is only a couple of hundred pounds heavier and has the same GVWR. I towed it for 9 years with a Dodge Ram 1500 with the 5.2L V-8. It was pretty good on flat terrain, but had no power in the hills, let alone any mountainous areas like the Adirondacks. I was unhappy with that combination.

The truck was big enough that sway was never an issue. IMHO, a smaller, lighter truck is not a good choice when thinking about other towing issues beside pure pulling ability.

Another user here pulled a T-1950 with a Nissan Frontier configured similarly to your Tacoma, and he was unhappy with that setup. There's a Ford F-150 in his driveway now.

Gene · 08-31-2010, 12:13 PM

I have a Toyota 4-runner with the same 3.727 rear axle ratio but a 4.7L V8 and 4WD rated to tow 7,000# so it is similar to the Tacoma drive train but a biger engine. I can tow my 2363 (5500 gross weight) ok even in the hills of New Hampshire but do have to hit the gas to downshift on some of the long uphill grades ( 1 mile or so). I usually get 11 to 12 mpg towing and 20 to 23 without the "house" over the same routes to Maine and New Hampshire.

That said, I think the V6 will struggle to tow the same size trailer if there are any hills, it may be ok on the flats.

Another comparison; I drove a company owned Tacoma 4 cylinder PU for a few years and it would not accelerate to highway speeds on the on ramps nearly as well as my 4-runner pulling my 2363. Again, I think the V6 will not quite handle the job.

Steve Collins · 08-31-2010, 12:32 PM

Guss, I've had both standard and extended cabs on pickups. I found that once you have an extended cab, you can't go back. The extra interior space is just invaluable whether for extra people for a trip to the restaurant or some gear that you want to keep out of the elements. Grandchildren fit great in the back seat! I keep my tool boxes and such in the cab while on campsite for just a bit of extra security.

If I have my druthers, I'd have an extended cab with a 6' bed for towing a TT. Roughly the same wheelbase as the 8' bed and standard cab so it isn't any more difficult to maneuver in parking lots, etc. It'll tow the 2499 about the same in either configuration.

If you have to haul 8' sheets of plywood or whatever, the tailgate in the down position still gives full support.

You'll notice that the above doesn't have anything to do with towing, but rather with your enjoyment of the truck even when not towing.

I think towing a 2499 with a half ton pickup needs all the advantage you can muster. The 5.4L with HD options would be a good choice.

Like Kitty and many others here, I am a solid believer in 3/4 or 1 ton trucks for towing anything heavier than the 5,500# GVWR weight class

GoodoleBob · 08-31-2010, 05:38 PM

Since this post is nearing it's forth page of replies, one more comment can't hurt.

I think this subject, which so frequently dominates the TT forums, is somewhat hard to swallow for the new trailer buyer. The conventional wisdom generally offered is basically telling someone to go out and buy a fairly substantial truck to tow his dream trailer down the road. This poor guy was hoping to hear that his 12 year old mini-pickup would be just fine and he comes away hearing most people suggesting a relative monster truck instead.

The truth in this discussion cannot be softened to appease the dream unfortunately. A heavy trailer can become a danger to everyone near it if it is allowed to over-power it's tow vehicle because said tow vehicle was mismatched for towing it right from the start. If there was ever a case for overkill...this has to be a very prominent example.

It is a dis-service to tell someone their "not quite" heavy enough truck is probably ok under average circumstances. His camping buddies talk him into a weekend trip up in the hills and that somewhat heavy trailer is now becoming a beast both up and down every grade..that average goes down the drain and his camping dream could easily become a terrifying experience or worse. The dynamics of towing a heavy trailer can be a real surprise for a newbie trailer owner.

If getting a suitable tow vehicle means waiting until either funds or the availability of the right truck present themselves then let safety and sensibility prevail. The eagerness to get RVing shouldn't be the controlling factor in such an important decision.

Just my thoughts on the matter, for what it's worth

Bob

Honda03842 · 08-31-2010, 07:00 PM

Dear Old Fogey,

People with large trailers seem to need the space. We have traveled in a large motorhome (32 x 8.5 ' inside) and a small trailer (12 x 6' 10" inside). Both modes of travel were fun. The advantage of the small trailer was it's size, you can go any where and gas costs were one third, and campgrounds always seems to have a space for you.

In addition we did not have to buy a big tow vehicle, our Honda has worked great with only 160 Hp, taking us to Labrador and a loop of the United States.

We continue to find we are very happy with less, we travel light, do not have special outfits for New Years and St Patricks day, carry no coolers. We never add anything to our load without eliminating something. Outside of emergency tools, if we don't use it it doesn't make the next trip.

The space is small, but how much time does one spend in the trailer. We're usually out during the daylight hours, if not away exploring, we're outside reading or on our computers, we carry two, have wireless and SAT tv.

At night we watch a little TV, read and surf the net.

Of course everywhere we go people are amazed by our Honda and its towing prowess, generally not believing what's possible, and shocked that we have spent 10 months of a year in a 12 x 7 space.

I love to make the case for the joy of smallness.

**JohnB** · 08-31-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodoleBob

Since this post is nearing it's forth page of replies, one more comment can't hurt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoodoleBob

I think this subject, which so frequently dominates the TT forums, is somewhat hard to swallow for the new trailer buyer. The conventional wisdom generally offered is basically telling someone to go out and buy a fairly substantial truck to tow his dream trailer down the road. This poor guy was hoping to hear that his 12 year old mini-pickup would be just fine and he comes away hearing most people suggesting a relative monster truck instead.

The truth in this discussion cannot be softened to appease the dream unfortunately. A heavy trailer can become a danger to everyone near it if it is allowed to over-power it's tow vehicle because said tow vehicle was mismatched for towing it right from the start. If there was ever a case for overkill...this has to be a very prominent example.

It is a dis-service to tell someone their "not quite" heavy enough truck is probably ok under average circumstances. His camping buddies talk him into a weekend trip up in the hills and that somewhat heavy trailer is now becoming a beast both up and down every grade..that average goes down the drain and his camping dream could easily become a terrifying experience or worse. The dynamics of towing a heavy trailer can be a real surprise for a newbie trailer owner.

If getting a suitable tow vehicle means waiting until either funds or the availability of the right truck present themselves then let safety and sensibility prevail. The eagerness to get RVing shouldn't be the controlling factor in such an important decision.

Just my thoughts on the matter, for what it's worth

Bob

Bob, your post is worth a lot.

I know, unfortunately as friendly as a forum we have always strived to be, we have lost some new members from ever posting again because of this very topic. It is hard to accept and understand all that can go on in some TV & TT combinations to make them work. Some get lucky and they line up quick and never had an issue and others picked that a floor plan and camper size that does not match well with there truck. The salesmen said it was fine right? .

It is hard to accept your new pride and joy camper will not do well with your beauty of a good pulling truck. Until the day the TV and TT manufactures ever get together on how to rate a TV to pull and control a TT, it is sort of up to us campers to help new folks sort thru this.

I know I myself was caught up in this with our 1st camper. Lucky me I picked the heaviest tongue weight floor plan 7,000# chassis TT Sunline made. A beauty at that. I had a 2002 Tahoe and pulling was not so much the issue as was trying to control and hold up the heavy tongue weight. And for sure both the TT dealer and my Chevy dealer told me it would do fine. Yeh right, the driver is still responsible not them.

After I realized what I had messed up on, we loved our brand new TT way too much and after many nights of restless sleep the 2 year old truck had to go. I lost some trade money on that great truck but I found a good used 2500 Suburban in the right price range. That solved the problem and from then on I set out to educate myself totally and to help others the best I can to not make the same mistake I had.

And then you learn about towing accidents where bad things can happen to good people. Seeing one of them with a miss matched rig, underrated hitch equipment and improper WD/antisway setups because they innocently did not know, hurts.

I’m not saying every TV needs to be a 2500 or 3500 truck, the truck needs to match the TT 1st to be able to control it, then to be able to pull it. Sunline was unique where many of there floor plans work well with smaller TV’s but not all and floor plan, tongue weight, TT length to TV wheelbase make a difference.

To any member that we may have accidentally offended with the wrong choice of words on how to tell or show you your TV and TT are not a good combo, we apologize. It was not meant to hurt. We will try to use better wording in the future. Most all of use that have upgraded along the way learned this the hard way and we want your camping experience to be the best and safest it can be.

Happy camping and tow safe

John

quaddriver · 09-14-2010, 10:20 AM

Of course, we forget what it was like not so long ago, say 25 years when not even the big blocks saw 200 net hp yet were rated for some large trailers. The standard engine in an 80's F350 truck was a 120hp I6 and with the 4.10 could pull 3-4 tons if you were not in a hurry.

I guess we are in a hurry today.

(I was looking at old sunline brochures - which is how I found this site - and the pics of the bigger 11ft truck campers in old F250s/F350s which had 160hp or less 351M/400 engines)