Towing with a 2002 GMC Envoy

[Thomascine]

She past inspection and the WD setup is done. They had to extend the 7-pin plug because once the WD was installed the wire wasn't long enough. But boy is the ride much better!


They ran a new ground wire. I am thinking they did not see my battery cut-off switch and thought the trailer needed to be grounded. Not sure but now the battery will not shut-off.


I will post the bad under the repair thread.

Thanks for reading.

Tommie

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

The added ground wire should not really be affecting the battery disconnect. That is assuming the disconnect is opening up the red hot wire.

I know somewhere you posted pic's of the battery disconnect wiring. I just can't seem to find them.

If you need to, just unbolt the negative wire off the battery to stop the battery drain until we you can figure out the issue. Your new LP detector is on all the time and will over a week run the battery down.

Glad the WD hitch set came out good and the truck handles better. That is a mega good step forward.

We need to talk about getting the WD bars on and off and not doing very much pulling with the bar lift tool. We did not talk about that yet and do not know if they explained you need to jack the camper up high hitched to the truck way high to make it effortless to put the bars on and off. Pulling up hard with a lot of weight on a WD bar can be dangerous in some cases. We need to make sure you know about the jack up process. If they did not explain this, let em know. I have pics to show the process.

Thanks

John

[Thomascine]

Hi JohnB,

The battery disconnect is connected to the negative wire. The new ground they installed is affecting the battery disconnect. I tested by unhooking theirs from the battery and the lights in the trailer went out. When I connected the new wire back on again, the lights came on. I left it disconnected last night. I am guessing I need to move the disconnect to the positive wire?

The trailer shop is owned by the son of one of our retired police officers. Very nice young man. He explained everything to me. And he did show me the two ways for removing the bars - jack the trailer up high to take the tension off or using the metal tool. I jacked the trailer up high to get the bars off, a lot easier. He did say that if you notice the front end is a little higher, that is because he left room for me to load camping gear in the vehicle. I did not have a way to secure the coupler. There were no holes for a pin (well there was a hole on one side). They drilled a hole on the other side to allow for a pin to secure the coupler to the ball. Don't want that popping off during travel. They said the breaks were fine and the bearings were fine. They rewired the break away switch and now I just need to get some kind of pin to connect it to the vehicle. Right now it is connected to one of the safety chains which defeats the purpose.

Thanks a bunch.
Tommie

[JohnB]

The battery disconnect is by practice, traditionally connected to the positive wire. It technically will work by disconnecting the negative, however using a disconnect switch on the positive lead while the negative lead is still attached is more of the common convention.

If there is no battery disconnect and no way to unhook the battery other then unbolting a wire lead, then it is advised for safety reasons to unbolt the negative and not the positive. This method allows less chance of a tool undoing the bolts to spark on the frame if you are unhooking the negative. Unbolting the hot wire every time has a higher risk the tool will touch something on the metal camper and create a large spark.

If you can move the disconnect switch to the positive side, that is more conventional and will solve your issue. They must of needed a better ground for some reason and never traced back the uncommon negative disconnect.

I am very glad to hear your trailer shop took the time to explain the WD hitch, hitching and unhitching safely by jacking the camper and truck up way high. Sometimes you need a 6" block of wood etc under the jack foot to gain more height as all jacks do not always have enough travel to totally unload the WD bars.

Some folks have been hurt not knowing this jack up procedure as the pipe or tool flew out of their hand trying to lift all that spring tension without jacking up the camper and truck.

Good they created a pinned coupler lock. That is a very documented case that sometimes given the right conditions the coupler can unlock and decouple, if not pinned/locked closed.

Good your shop found those items. They are a keeper.

The breakaway cable, see here. Sometimes you need to use a small chain to create a hook point for the cable with a small carabiner.

Here is one method on Ford pickups




Here is a method on a Chevy Suburban. I cannot find the exact pic I want to show you, (moved pics to Flicker) but the small chain was threaded up through a slot in the bumper.

You can see the small chain and carabiner at the left






Point being, each truck will have a different setup but using a small chain and a carabiner (both strong enough) can create an option to attach to the truck independent of the tow books or the truck receiver.

Hope this helps

John

[Thomascine]

Thanks JohnB.

Does the carabiners have rating scales? I have a few around here. How do I know if they are strong enough? I didn't think it took a lot of force to pull the pin from the breakaway switch.

[BenB]

I went out and looked at our Trailblazer and where the plastic bumper cover attaches with the plastic clip there is a welded metal loop on the main hitch for the clip. This would be a good place to run a small chain though for the carabiner. The GMC bumper is different so this may or may not be the same on yours. It is hard to take a picture of but look above the 7 pin connector for the trailer. The second pic shows me pointing to the clip on the bumper where the metal loop on the hitch is.

I bought a small stainless steel carabiner for mine from Walmart, is was a couple dollars. On my other truck I used one that I has laying around that wasn't stainless and over time it got rusty and was hard to use.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[Thomascine]

Thanks BenB! I will check it out tomorrow.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Thanks JohnB.

Does the carabiners have rating scales? I have a few around here. How do I know if they are strong enough? I didn't think it took a lot of force to pull the pin from the breakaway switch.

Hi Tommie,

General purpose carabiners normally do not have a rating. Certified climbing ones do as they are intended for climbing.

In the case of the emergency breakaway switch cable or attachment, I have not heard of a regulation stating they have to be rated at a certain load.

If you have one of the normal breakaway switches, the actually plunger that pulls out of the switch is plastic. That hoop connection on the end of it is normally the weakest link in something breaking when the plunger is pulled out.

The actual cable is many times stronger than the plastic hoop. For a carabiner, some key features of what you could use:

Select one made out a metal. Stainless does not rust or corrode as easy, plated steel is usable just over a few years the plating can corroded and it can rust sometimes not making the spring loaded hoop not close right. Aluminum ones if they are thick enough can work too, just road salts can attack them in some cases. All are usable just some may last longer than others.

If you are using a chain loop to create an attaching point, the thickness of the carabiner needs to fit through the chain loop. That can be a driving need as to what size carabiner. Again being steal, it will be stronger than the plastic hoop on the switch.

I can take a pic of my setup on Sunday and post. It is a 1/4" stainless made by Stanley, (National) one that when the latching lever clicks in place, it completes the loop and makes it stronger. It also fits through the small chain I use.

This link has good pics of the size and type, just I bought them in a single pack. No need to buy 4 of them ti get 1 but it was all I could find quick
https://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Stainl...70_&dpSrc=srch

Hope this helps

John

[Thomascine]

Originally Posted by JohnB

A heads up though on the 4 x 4 parts. The front differential casing (axle) has been known to leak over time on these vintage vehicles. It caught me off guard. We had a noise in the front end that started. I thought for sure it was a wheel bearing. Nope... After much testing we concluded it had to be the front differential gear case and must of had a bearing going bad in side.

As a side line, we really lucked out. The differential gear case was not the noise... It did get totally rebuilt though and we dodged a bullet that would of left us stranded if and when it would let go. It ended up being a constant velocity joint on the 4 x 4 drive shafts to the front wheels. Naturally to change those parts, you do all new wheel bearings and drives shafts at the same time. The parts were costly. We had about $850 worth of parts in the repair. And that was with no labor.

John

11 months and $800 later, the front CV axle shafts had to be replaced. Even though I knew it was coming, it doesn't feel any better!

[mainah]

I was a shop manager for a transmission shop years ago we would not warrant a transmission job on a vehicle that was either a motor home or a tow vehicle without adding a auxiliary cooler.

[mainah]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

Thanks JohnB.

Does the carabiners have rating scales? I have a few around here. How do I know if they are strong enough? I didn't think it took a lot of force to pull the pin from the breakaway switch.

The cheap ones are 150# if you believe it I use them to pull a drag for grooming ski trails and snowmobile tracks after damaging my draw bar twice on the sled I use them as a hitch point because they break. I use the steel ones on my brake switch.

[Thomascine]

Originally Posted by mainah

I was a shop manager for a transmission shop years ago we would not warrant a transmission job on a vehicle that was either a motor home or a tow vehicle without adding a auxiliary cooler.

I do still plan to have an auxiliary cooler installed. Maybe sometime between now and Spring.

[mainah]

Are you towing your 1550? I tow a T1700 with a Tacoma no sway bars no load bars I do use a drop hitch so everything is level it does not bottom out and it does not sway at all. I'm guessing I have done close to 10K miles with it and it tracks spot on even being passed by large trucks. The Tacoma is rated 6500# mine is a 6 speed manual.

[Thomascine]

Originally Posted by mainah

Are you towing your 1550? I tow a T1700 with a Tacoma no sway bars no load bars I do use a drop hitch so everything is level it does not bottom out and it does not sway at all. I'm guessing I have done close to 10K miles with it and it tracks spot on even being passed by large trucks. The Tacoma is rated 6500# mine is a 6 speed manual.

Yeah, I am towing the 1550. The Envoy has a GVWR of 5800# and I have a weight distribution with sway bars. It tows a lot smoother since the weight distribution was installed. And I travel with empty water tanks. So far, I have gone as far as a couple of hours away. But the group I joined is planning a trip to Cape May. This will be the farthest that I have gone. I figured since it is an old vehicle, adding the auxiliary cooler would be a good idea. I had been putting it off.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Thomascine

11 months and $800 later, the front CV axle shafts had to be replaced. Even though I knew it was coming, it doesn't feel any better!

Yup. sooner or later... How many miles are on the truck?

The good news, I think, you caught it before it left you stranded... not good. 4 wheel drive in about any brand has some level of issues as the miles adds up.

I'm assuming the shop checked the oil in the front differential? If not have someone check it. After having the issue, and researching it, it is a semi common issue on that truck for a seal leak in the front differential gear housing. Now knowing this, it should be checked at every oil change on the engine. I had a long 1/2" ratchet extension and could crank the steering wheel fully to the left and reach in and take the oil fill plug out, use a flashlight and look in and top off if needed. Painless to add a little oil before it runs dry and dies from a lack of lube.

Thanks

John

[Thomascine]

This is my first 4WD. It has just under 145000 miles. Front differentials - actually took pictures you posted from the thread with me. He said that they do that when they replace the CV axle shafts. I did not go in and check myself.

[JohnB]

145,000 miles, yup. That is the time and some time before then when these kind of issues start to surface. The good news, your new drive shafts should be good for a long time now.

Good to hear the shop checked the oil. Just add it to your list of things to do when getting an engine oil change, have the shop check that front differential each time. Sooner or later one of the seals will start seeping. The check is cheap, the repair is not...

[mainah]

There is a bit of marret to disconnecting the negative basically the same ideal of removing the negative cable first if there is no ground there is no path for the positive to take so a live wire can be laying on the frame and nothing will happen.

[Thomascine]

Good afternoon,

I am in need of some input. I am considering a T1850 but not sure if I can tow it with my '02 Envoy (Tow capacity = 5800lbs). Any input on this will be very helpful.

Thanks,
Tommie

[JohnB]

Hi Tommie,

What model year is the T1850?