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Old 12-23-2012, 06:05 PM   #1
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Towing my T1950

Hello and Merry Christmas to all. Thought it might be prudent to inform the group of my towing experience this year. I pulled our T1950 (3750 pounds) plus minimal gear and food for 2 (no water) with a 2011 Toyota Tacoma. I would estimate 4700 pounds max. This truck has a 4L V6, 5 speed auto and is rated to pull 6300 pounds. No way can that be done safely. I was really disappointed with the experience. Not enough horsepower (240) to feel comfy on the slightest of inclines. I was in 4th gear, but the truck spent much of the time in 3rd. Even on the flat there is nothing left when traveling at highway speed. We had the truck before the trailer so I thought I would give it a try. My message here is make sure you have the tow vehicle to do the job. I will not attempt it again with this truck. Fortunately we have the trailer parked at a lakeside rv resort not far away so we can use it often right where it sits. Just my thoughts for those who may be borderline with respect to their tow vehicle.
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Old 12-24-2012, 07:47 AM   #2
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Wow they sure have overrated that tow capacity. I tow our 1950 with a GMC Envoy, 4.2 I6, 290 hp which is rated at 5500 lb with tow package. It does a good job but I would not want anything much heavier.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:59 AM   #3
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Hi there and thanks for the reply. I had neglected to mention that the truck has the tow package on it. I just checked the brochure and without that package, the truck is rated at only 3500 pounds. It's curious because the trailering package uses the same 4L engine (V8 not available in Tacoma) with the addition of trans and oil coolers, larger alternator, hitch, wiring, etc. No increase in power which is the major problem in my mind. Seems strange that engine and trans protection could add almost 3000 pounds of capacity. I think Toyota has vastly overrated that aspect. Oh well, I have to live with it for now, but I will seriously take a look at the new ford with the V6 twin turbo. I mentioned in the original post that we have our T1950 parked at a lakeside RV resort not too far from where we live in Edmonton, Alberta. That is working well as we get to use the trailer any day we want through the spring, summer and early fall. We sometimes go out just for breakfast and coffee or an evening fire. Sure enjoy that trailer. Quality is second to none.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:49 AM   #4
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We enjoy ours too, even though we just bought it this past summer. We have a lot of campgrounds within a few hours drive but don't have a permanent site. Sometimes it would be nice just to be able to spend an evening or morning there. I just retired so hopefully we will be doing some traveling with it in the years ahead when my wife retires.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:40 AM   #5
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I have a 2011 Tacoma with the 6 spd. standard it is no power house but it also has no problem on any thing other then big hills I can travel the highways in 6th with no problem. The tow rating difference is because of the tow package it's self the 3500# rating is aftermarket stuff. The factory equpt. is a lot better built and includes oil cooler, trans cooler (auto) larger battery, wiring and alt. I can tell you the eco boost has plenty of power but you pay for it with fuel it drops like a rock towing. I do agree if I needed to tow any thing much bigger then what I have I probably would have bought the Tundra even though I did not want a truck that big as it is also my every day ride. The 4L does like to be driven at higher revs that is where all of it's power is and it dos not seems to have much effect on longevity there are a lot of them out there with over 250K.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:34 PM   #6
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Interesting info to me. We currently pull our 1950 with an '07 Dodge Ram with a Hemi. We bought the Ram because our '03 Chevy Trailblazer with a 275 V6 with towing package lugged on the hills. The Ram pulls it easily, but the gas mileage (even daily driving) is awful. We're considering going to a Tacoma for our next vehicle for better daily mileage, but want to make sure it's strong enough to pull the trailer without much strain. You would think that with that factory tow package, it would do the job. Any other experiences with a Tacoma and a 1950?
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy G. View Post
Interesting info to me. We currently pull our 1950 with an '07 Dodge Ram with a Hemi. We bought the Ram because our '03 Chevy Trailblazer with a 275 V6 with towing package lugged on the hills. The Ram pulls it easily, but the gas mileage (even daily driving) is awful. We're considering going to a Tacoma for our next vehicle for better daily mileage, but want to make sure it's strong enough to pull the trailer without much strain. You would think that with that factory tow package, it would do the job. Any other experiences with a Tacoma and a 1950?
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:57 PM   #8
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Seems my original post has generated a bit of interest so I'll continue with my experience. My automatic gets me 19 mpg (US gallons) in the summer, less in our cold winters. However, when I pulled the trailer mileage went down to about 9 or 10 mpg US. It's a small tank, 22 gal US, so not a lot of range between fill ups. Maybe the manual trans is better? Another thing that annoyed me was the lack of custom mirror extenders (in my area anyway). Had to make do with a universal strap on model which I found too small and not real steady. Maybe that is an indication of what the aftermarket folks think of the Tacoma as a hauler. There are a ton of them on the road here, but no available custom towing mirror, even from Toyota. If anyone reading has a source, please let me know.

Nancy, you had stated that you would like a Tacoma as an everyday truck. Good decision there as they are very well built and a nice size for an everyday truck . I just don't think they are suitable for towing your trailer any distance, especially if you find some wind on the way. When you are maxed out or feel close to it, it's surprising how many inclines there are on a seemingly flat roadway.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:28 AM   #9
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I think I would put the cutoff point at 3500# for a Tacoma but still go with the factory tow package. I have no doubt it would pull 6500# but not with me driving it! The automatic trans in the Tacoma is the same one in the Tundra so they are plenty tough. I have seen them pulling backhoes etc. and big campers but your asking for trouble. I would never think about towing some thing that approached the weight of the TV. The mileage towing is no prize and goes down fast with speed I get 10-12 at highway speeds and close to 15 at 50 but that holds true for all of them Ford, Chevy or Toyota doesn't matter.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:34 AM   #10
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Nancy.....

Sharon and I towed our 4300-lb + Harmony with our 07 Tacoma PreRunner Doublecab with tow package..... for over 18,000 miles quite comfortably. Our replacement of the vehicle (after 75,000 miles) was due to only 3 factors:
==>expiration of extended warranty coverage
==>availability of an unbelievable deal on a low-mileage Tundra 2wd with tow package and a certified 100,000-mile warranty
==>our plans to spend significant miles in the upper Rocky Mountains.

Having now towed for 41+ years, I believe that once basic adequate mechanical towing capacity is achieved, the driver's preferred towing style and urgency become the underlying factors in driver comfort and opinion. These days, the "no substitute for truck size, cubic inches and big torque" group has, I think, a tendency to overstate the need for size and power.

In other words....for my towing style, I think that the Tacoma would meet your mechanical towing needs...and save some fuel. But depending on your preferred towing style........

Why not find a Tacoma owner (original tow package equipped) who'll let you tow your rig for 50 miles or so? It could be an eye-opener.

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Old 12-28-2012, 03:20 PM   #11
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A few things to consider:

1 - When driving we are not alone on the road. Somehow we need to mesh with other traffic and not everyone will move over for us. Being able to keep up with traffic is important. No need in being the cause of road rage because of hogging the road and making others go as slow as you must travel to be safe with your equipment. If more horsepower is the answer then play it safer and spend the money for better equipment.

2 - Since we all tend to move into larger camping quarters it might make sense to buy not for what your pulling now but what you could be pulling before your tow-vehicle wears out or is no longer capable. Starting with a tent that fits in the back of the family car, going to a popup that can be pulled with a family car and going to solid walled campers which are usually from small to large is normal. No need to buy a new tow vehicle with each camper if you plan ahead.

3 - There is much more to towing than just hooking up and driving away. We need the proper equipment for what we are towing. If the hitch weight overloads the tow vehicle then get the proper weight distribution system and/or larger TV. If the towed equipment has special needs such as sway control do not hesitate to buy sway control. Proper equipment is not limited to the tow vehicle.

4 - Most of the time the details come from experience. Your driving habits will change while towing as you become more confident with your rig or where you want to travel. If your experience comes from buying the wrong equipment or borrowing or renting other tow equipment, then so be it. What is good for the goose is not always good for the gander. My experience while towing on flatlands of Florida may not meet your conditons or desires.


I hope you find a good combination that will handle your camping trips and do it safely.
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Old 12-28-2012, 04:39 PM   #12
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I had the same experience with my Nissan 6 cyl and my T-1950. I then bought an F150 V8 with 300hp, 3:55 rear end and 7300# capacity. Perfect.

You have to consider HP and gearing. My F150 today is 365HP. With a 3:55 rear end it's 7300# cap. With the 3:73 rear end as I have, it's 11300#. One's for mileage and one's for towing. I have the 6cyl ecoboost towing an 8500# 5th wheel, no problem.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:06 PM   #13
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Since this is still a live topic... a couple of thoughts from someone who has progressed through various pop ups, 2 Ford 6 cyl. with standard, a small block auto V8 and current large block auto V8.

The best way to interpret today's wildly optimistic tow ratings is that they are the highest numbers the engineering department will tolerate in the face of unrelenting pressure from the marketing department. Gene, your Tacoma may well be able to tow 6300 lb., but it better be a load of bricks on a small trailer that tucks in behind the Tacoma's profile. Although the 1950 is a "small" Sunline, the Tacoma sees and feels a full size trailer. The 1950 has the same profile as my much heavier 2499 and any 6 cyl. truck simply doesn't have the horsepower to overcome that air resistance. The power needed to start a trailer from a stop pales in comparison to the power needed to overcome air resistance at 60 mph plus climb any kind of prairie grade, never mind mountains. In my somewhat limited Ford/GM experience, Ford is the only manufacturer that even warns of the effect of towing wide tall loads behind underpowered tow vehicles--and that's only in the owner's manual after you've bought the truck. So, how big is this air resistance? Travelling from ON along the rugged north shore of L. Superior and 5 different passes to the west coast, I have rarely encountered any downhill slope that can be navigated at 60 mph where I need any brakes at all--other than the big "air brake" behind me. On tight curves in the mountains that can only be navigated at 10-20 mph, I gear down and am constantly on the brakes because the speed is too slow to generate enough air resistance for braking.

Another factor often overlooked is the loss of hp at higher altitudes. In this case, Edmonton is already at 2200 ft. and it's a steady climb from there to Jasper. The Tacoma has already given up 15-20 hp at this altitude. A turbocharger would go a long way to wiping out this loss.

I don't need a daily driver and my current truck would be a poor choice for tooling around in the city or commuting. Of course there is a big mileage penalty--16 mpg solo--but I easily get 10 mpg towing the 2499, except in western head winds. The downfall of any small underpowered truck is that unless you really do need a daily driver--and put a lot of miles on it--you can never make up for its poor performance and poor mileage towing. However, local circumstances do matter. We tow a large trailer west--where 2 sons live--at least 7-8000 miles every year. If I towed a smaller trailer for weekend camping within 200 miles of home in southern ON, I'd put up with a lot less truck than I have now.

Lastly, in my experience, a standard transmission is a very poor choice for towing--18 wheelers not withstanding. My 4 and 5 sp. Fords, typically would be trapped in 3rd on any kind of grade without enough momentum to overcome the rpm and torque loss of an upshift--a very unhappy experience for the driver and anyone else behind.

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Old 12-28-2012, 07:49 PM   #14
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This is some good discussion. I'll throw in some thoughts. Towing mirrors, having a good set of towing mirrors where you can see the back end of the camper can be priceless. It can get you the most when trying to back up.

Here is an option that may help and what to look for. The distance between the inside left and right tow mirror as measured right through the cab of the truck should be equal to or larger than the width of the camper. Meaning if you have an 8 foot wide camper, it should be 8 feet or more between the towing mirrors. The mirrors need to be outside the width of the camper. The less you have from the camper witch the harder it gets to see good.

The goal is on the drivers side as a minimum is to see the back of the side of the camper when going straight ahead without having to lean forward. The right side get harder as your further away from that mirror. You might have to lean forward a little to help that side unless your way far beyond the camper width.

Here is one option I found to be very good if you do not have factory tow mirrors. They are called McKesh mirrors from Hensley. See here
McKesh Mirrors | Hensley Hitch Trailer Towing Products

Yes they cost a little more than average but you get what you pay for. I recommend the round blind spot mirror too. See here I had these on our Suburban. These pics are without leaning forward.



Right side


Driver side


They go on easy and are rigid. No bad wiggle going down the road.

Camping World now sells a generic version of these, I do not know if the mirror itself is as good. Only seen them in a box.


Towing. First I'm a big fan of making sure the truck is at or under the axle weights, GVWR ratings first. This is part of being able to control the camper. It is a must to be able to control the trailer. Then that you are at or under the GCWR with some reserve capacity.

Now to the tug of war. I have not yet found an auto manufacture who rates towing performance and capacity for TT's. They get close but it leaves much to be desired. The T1950 we are talking about here is 8 feet wide 9' 8" tall on the newer models. The older ones may have been narrower. Aka, towing a brick.... Once we get above 45 mph the wind drag starts affecting the pulling performance in orders of magnitude. Many TV makers create a 60 sq foot of frontal area as a limit where you will notice a performance difference. They never say how much of a difference, it more of a bail out statement to tell you they did not create the CGWR using anything over 60 sq feet. Most all the 8 foot wide campers are over this 60 sq feet rating.

This wind drag is a large part of what eats up the excess fuel. If you tow a 3,000# open utility trailer, a 3,000# boat, even a 3,000# enclosed cargo trailer it will feel significantly easier to tow than a 8 foot wide 9 foot high 3,000# camper. The only way around this is, flat land, do not tow a lot over 45 mph, narrower and shorter height camper or get a larger reserve capacity drive train in the truck.

We all camp different, some may only camp 3 times a year and go 50 miles down the road. Others camp 60 nights or more and put on 5,000 plus miles a year. Others full time it. You have to have enough truck to meet the axle weight and GVWR ratings for towing the camper you have. You need to be at or under the GCWR for the drive train. This creates the "mechanical towing needs" Frank so very well put it.

Now comes the how much and how long you tow comes into the equation. For those traveling the more miles and longer distances along with harder terrain (up hill), having higher reserve towing capacity creates a much more pleasurable experience.

And then there is if you are doing 15 to 20 mph and that is all shes got constantly when others are doing 45 to 50, you can become a road hazard. It seems all the jerks come out when you hitch up the camper. They start doing dangous acts not wanting to get stuck behind you. This does not matter what size truck you have but it increases when you are under matched.

On the other hand if you are only doing 3 camping trips within 50 miles a year, it is not practical to go buy a different truck but the one you have needs to mechanically do the job within it's ratings regardless of distance. It will not take you too long to know if you are comfortable in the truck you have.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:20 PM   #15
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Great discussion everyone. Thanks for your thoughts, experiences and advice. I have already decided that the Tacoma is not the tow vehicle for me. I'll be trading before my next road trip. Hope the discussion has proved useful for others as well. Keep the comments coming. You can never have enough info, especially that which is based on past towing experience.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:29 PM   #16
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my $.02

I think you'e makng the right decision to upgrade your TV
I tow our 1950 w/ a '06 Tundra w/ the 4.7L V-8 & woudn't feel comfortable w/ anything smaller. In addition to wt of trailer you're gonna put lots more wt in back of your Tacoma & that 6 cyl will just have to work too hard
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:55 PM   #17
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When I was looking for a new tow vehicle to tow an 8500# 5th wheel here's what I found:

F150 F/X 4 ecoboost with max tow package
3:73 rear end for 11.300# capacity
6 cyl, 365 hp and 420# torque (about 11mpg towing, 21 best empty)
1800# pin load
extending side mirrors with large blind spot mirrors on each
brake controller built in on the dash, setting display on dash
6 speed automatic transmission
"haul" setting in transmission extending time in each gear
hill hold brakes (5 seconds)
anti sway control, applies trailer brakes if it senses sway
trailer hookup checklist built in to the dash display
transmission cooler with temp guage on dash
19" wheels and large brake rotors
36 gal tank
(not to mention the many options not related to towing)
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:51 PM   #18
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Great discussion and an awful lot of good thoughts. When we first purchased our Sunline we knew very little about the many issues of towing. Nice to have this group with the extensive knowledge of the trials and tribulations of RV'ing.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:30 AM   #19
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Hi and thanks for the help. The data sticker on my 1998Solaris t-1950 has faded and I am not able to read the info anymore. Is there a way to get a replacement sticker? Thanks.. Ken
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