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Old 05-01-2009, 09:11 PM   #1
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finewillie
Tow vehicle wiring

I have a 2004 Chevy Silverado 4x4 with a factory tow package. It has a problem with the wiring that my trailer guru can't seem to fix. My left & right directionals work on my 2475, but when I apply the brakes, only the left brake light comes on. My trailer guru says there is a converter in the truck that combines the seperate incoming brake and directional inputs, and changes them into single left & right outputs to the trailer. He does not know where in my truck the converter is located, or what is involved in changing it.

Does anybody know where I can get the converter, and the information to tell me where & how to change it.

Thanks so much for your assistance.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:38 PM   #2
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Re: Tow vehicle wiring

Quote:
Originally Posted by finewillie
My left & right directionals work on my 2475, but when I apply the brakes, only the left brake light comes on.
Hi Finewille. I'll see if I can help. Before putting back on my Blue Oval, I had 4 Bow Ties in the middle....

Something not sounding right. If you have the GM 7 wire plug in the back of the truck,

Do you mean, both camper left and right signals work? yes/no?

And

One camper brake light works and 1 camper brake light does not work when you step on the brake pedal? Yes/no?

Before I type a bunch need to know if the 1 camper brake light is working with the brake pedal. As if it is, then the problem is in the camper not the truck. The truck 7 wire receptacle on the TV receiver only has one brake light output wire. It splits into 2 wires in the back of the TT.

Edit: 5-5-09 I appologize, I mixed that up. What is in blue is not correct. The body lights are one pin. The brakes are combo with the left and right turn signals. For brake lights the TV just energizes both turn signals at once. I had my wires crossed... Sorry.


This could be as simple as a dual element light bulb brunt out, a corroded light socket or, more deeper, a wiring problem in the TT.

But need to know what is working or not.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:24 PM   #3
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John,
Thanks for your help. I am diagnosing the problem without the camper even being attached. The tests are with a test light at the 7-round of the TV. Independantly, the left blinker works, and the right blinker works. When the brake pedal is pushed, only the left brake light comes on.
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Old 05-04-2009, 09:24 PM   #4
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Bill

Sorry for being dense on this one. I can’t figure out how you got to what you are describing.

Tell me where I go wrong on this. You have the factory tow package, this means the GM receiver and the GM 7 wire receptacle is mounted to it with all GM wiring. Do I have this right?

If so, on my 2003 Suburban, 2002 Tahoe and 98 Tahoe all I had to do was plug in the brake controller under the dash over by the parking brake and deal with Stud 1 or 2 I think under the hood to make the battery charger hot wire in the 7 wire plug work. There was no splitter system at least on those years that I had to deal with.

Molded in the spring loaded cover of the 7 wire receptacle is what each pin goes to. There is one left turn/brake light, 1 right turn/brake light and one for combo tail lights/clearance markers.

Are you saying that when you push the ”brake pedal”, no camper attached, that both truck brake lights are on but at the 7 wire only the left turn/brake wire is hot? The right turn/brake light pin is dead?

If this is what you are saying, h’mm.

You are not by chance doing this with the brake controller manual lever are you verses the brake pedal?

Let me know If I have this right now. As if so, OK I’m curious and puzzled too. But I do have the complete shop manual down stairs from GM on the 2003 K2500 Burb and I think it did the 2003 Silverado too. I can dig thru the 6 inches worth of books to try and find if any such splitter exits.

H’mm Ok for a test try this. Pull out the brake controller plug over by the parking brake and try it again and see if both brake lights work at the 7 wire, plug and on the back of the truck. This should remove all wired in traces of the brake controller if your if anything like what mine was.

Reason is GM gave me a 7 to 4 wire flat converter plug that you put in the back of the truck can use on a utility trailer or boat trailer with no electric brakes. That receptacle should work on directionals, brake lights and tail lights regardless if you have a brake controller. Where I’m going with this is timed based brake controllers that use the brake pedal switch also have a feature that when pressing the manual lever it turns on the TT brake lights as well. Something in that circuit or the brake controller wire hardness may be mixed up.

Hope this helps and let me know if I have what you are seeing right.

Thanks

John
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Old 05-05-2009, 11:50 AM   #5
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Ok, maybe I can help clear this up a little (I hope).

The short answer is that the problem most likely lies in the "turn signal/flasher" module, which according to the wiring diagram is located in the instrument panel fuse block.

The module will look a like this:




Now, the long answer. Let's start with the standard 7 pin trailer socket:



As you can see by the diagram, we have 7 connections:

The center pin is for backup lighting
Pin 1 is ground
Pin 2 is the electric brake circuit
Pin 3 is your tail and running lights
Pin 4 is 12V for battery charging purposes
Pin 5 is the Left Turn/Brake Lamp
Pin 6 is the Right Turn/Brake Lamp

Since we're talking lighting we're interested in Pins 3, 5 and 6.

Pin 3, the tail/running lights will be energized any time the parking lights or headlights of the tow vehicle are on.

Pin 5 will be energized (flashing) any time the left turn signal is on or the 4-way flashers are on. It will also be energized (steady) when the brake pedal is depressed.

Pin 6 will be energized (flashing) any time the right turn signal is on or the 4-way flashers are on. It will also be energized (steady) when the brake pedal is depressed.

As you can see, there is no seperate circuit to illuminate the brake lights themselves. The brake lights are run by the same wires used to drive the turn signal. This is done because they are actually the same bulb.

The lightbulbs used in the taillights of our trailers have dual filaments. One (the less bright filament) is connected to the tail/running light circuit. The second filament (the brighter one) is connected to the left or right turn circuit, depending on the side of the trailer it is located on.

This is also why the simplest trailer connection (the 4 pin flat) has only four pins - Ground, Left Turn, Right Turn, and Tail/Running.

In the old days (like up to about 10 years ago), vehicle wiring was still relatively simple, and most domestic vehicles used the same shared turn/stop wiring that trailers still do. Back then, it was real easy to add trailer lighting provisions to a vehicle that didn't come with them.

Those days are gone now, and vehicle wiring has become a bit more complicated. Many vehicles now have amber colored turn signals in the rear, seperate from the brake light circuit (imports have done this forever it seems). Additionally, we now have all kinds of modules and computers to run not only the powetrain, but the radio, windows, and lighting as well (so called "body control modules"). Instead of an electromechanical flasher (with a $3 price tag) to run the turn signals, we now have a module (in some vehicles, a "computer") to do the same job.

Anyway, here's the relevant section of the wiring diagram for an 04 Silverado (sorry it's large, any smaller it becomes impossible to read):



The section we are interested in starts up top, dead center. The dashed-line box represents the "turn signal/flasher module" which is a "fancy" device used to flash the turn signals for both the vehicle and a trailer. Although it performs a similar function in the end, this is not to be confused with the cylindrical 2-pin electromechanical flashers that were used previously. This device has approximately 10 pins and is a solid-state device, with the exception of some relays used to handle current.

I'm not sure if this will help clear things up, but if not, please feel free to comment/question/etc.


- Frank
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:16 PM   #6
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Frank to the rescue.

Great write up Frank. H'mm you must also have that same stack of 6" of books in the basement.... as that wiring diagram sure looks like the one in them.

Bill,

I think Frank is on a roll here. Learn something new every day here on SOC. I never knew that flasher module existed. I also mixed up my 1st reply to you about the brake light split. I edited it in color. Sorry.

By looking at Franks diagram Stud 2 is the 30 amp fuse that needs to be installed if it is not allready to allow the battery charging line to become hot to the camper battery. My factory brake controller harness had the fuse taped to it so you installed the fuse when you put the brake controller in as other wise there is no need.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

John
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:06 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Frank to the rescue.

Great write up Frank. H'mm you must also have that same stack of 6" of books in the basement.... as that wiring diagram sure looks like the one in them.
LOL. Thanks, John. I spend a LOT of time wrenching, mostly on fairly modern stuff.

For the wiring diagrams, thankfully, I have a friend with an Alldata subscription. He prints me the info when I'm in a bind.

- Frank
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Old 05-06-2009, 07:23 PM   #8
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Thanks so much for all of your input. The fuse has been installed on stud 2 to give power to my brake controller. I'll look into the flasher module in the next day or so.
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