Tow vehicle tires

[canoe2]

It's time to replace the tires on my '03 Dodge Ram 1500 2 wheel drive. I'm towing a T-2363 which has a weight of around 5500#. Can anyone suggest a good tire for me? And do I need to go with an E rating?

Thanks,

I appreciate the help.

Doug

[corsair167]

I would go to Big-O-Tires and see what they recommend...

[henryj]

Hi Doug,
See this recent threadhttp://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...nce-11854.html for info on how to research your choice.

Check the door sticker to see what the OEM size is/was. Manufacturers usually pick a tire that will at least match the RGAWR. On a 1/2 ton the rear axle is usually less than 4000 lb. and could be 3800 lb. or even less. A 3/4 ton will have a 6000 lb. axle. The typical LT245 in LRE weighs in at 3042 lb. at 80 psi and is a perfect match for most 3/4 tons. To match the load capacity of an LRE with your current P245 you'd have to air the LRE down to 50 psi which is too soft for trailer towing. In other words an LRE is massive overkill when the RGAWR of 3800 lb. is the limiting factor--bigger is not better in this case.

Check tirerack.com and pick a tire specs/brand that you are comfortable with. I would stick to the top 5 or at least the top 10 rated. I have used an LT LRD on a 1/2 ton and wouldn't hesitate to do that again. Depending on how much you've towed, I'd also check the shocks. I've found the OEMs to be weak even from new and worn out by 40-50,000 mi. They get a lot of extra work when trailer towing with a heavy tongue.

Henry

[JohnB]

Hi Doug

I see Henry already pointed you to our other active post on this topic. Good.

A few questions for you.

What size, brand and type do you have now?

And what tire pressure do you tow at, and what is max side wall on the tire?

Since we reset your hitch you reported an improvement. This is good but trying to find out if there still is a jerking feeling when high winds or semis pass. Is there? And describe what it feels like inside the truck. You may be experiencing side wall flexing.

If you are going slow towing about 25 to 30mph on a back road and do a slight quick left to right swing of the wheel does the back of the truck go soggy?

Some brand P tires and truck suspensions give an acceptable towing experience and others can be down right scary. The key is to get a stiff enough side wall when towing to hold the truck rigid when sway forces act on the rig

I agree with Henry the LT E load range is a caution for your truck. Even LT tires can be sog city until they get up in the higher pressures. They need the higher pressure to become stable in many cases. Well on a 1/2 ton truck a tire that hard may induce hard front end bounce as your truck is so light. So too much is no good either.

A few things to sort thru if you make the jump to LT, can your rims handle the full pressure of the LT tire?

The spare tire. Since you are on P tires now the spare I’m sure is a P as well. I do not know if I would mix a P spare in with LT main tires even as a spare. Since you tow and if you get a flat, that spare need to perform towing as well as the other 3 on the truck.

I can’t help you much on the brands for your suspension. I have heard some folks have called Tire Rack and been given some good advice. Regardless of who you talk to, even your local tire guy, explain you want a tire for towing a TT that needs a stiff side wall for stability but can still give acceptable ride on your truck. And I really caution going to the Michelin LTX for a towing tire on your size truck. While they are premium tires, they have soft side walls. That I can myself report on as I ended up in that situation on my own K2500 Suburban.

Hope this helps and tell us how you made out and when you get them, how do they tow?

John

[JohnB]

Doug here is one more post I put up on RV.net asking the same questions. Again the issue is getting the right tire for your suspension. Some folks swear by a brand and some swear at them. They are also on different truck platforms.

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: 1/2 Ton PU towing tire - need brand and model assistance

Hope this helps

John

[Makers Mark]

Doug,
I have the same truck, same year, same 2W drive, same trailer and put on Firestone Transport's truck tire. I love them while towing however DW and I both complain about the hard ride when not towing or loaded.
Jay

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Makers Mark

Doug,
I have the same truck, same year, same 2W drive, same trailer and put on Firestone Transport's truck tire. I love them while towing however DW and I both complain about the hard ride when not towing or loaded.
Jay

Jay, this is good info from a 1st hand user. And your suspension is the same too. WOW

What size and model/ load range is the Transport? Or did you mean Transforce? I can't seem to find the Transport.

And what pressure are you towing with?

Thanks

John

[Makers Mark]

John,
Yes you are right Firestone Transforce, my bad. They are LT245/70R17. Load range C, max tp is 50#. I run 40# in the back and 35# in the front. The tp's were recomended to me by my trusted local garage Guy's Washington, NJ (shameless plug). I have not deviated from those tp's. I have had no issues yet on my wheels. I have the steel/chrome clad wheel, very standard for Dodge and they seem to handle the pressure very well. The stiffer ride has been a pleasure in towing. I noticed a difference right away. Like I said the unloaded ride will jar the dentures! My wife doesn't like the ride w/o the trailer at all, but it is my truck, if I can only get her to let me drive it once and a while.
Jay

[canoe2]

Hello Henry, John and Jay:

Sorry for the late reply but I've been away from the computer for a few days. Thanks for all the information. I really appreciate it.

And here hopefully are the answers to the questions, hopefully I've answered all of them.

I think the suspension is okay on my truck as even though it's an '03 I just turned over 29,000 miles. It pays to live close enough to work that I can walk and when I was fire chief I had a city vehicle so the truck only got used when I needed to tow something.
I'm currently running Michelin LTX A/S size P245/70R17 and they are worn out already and that's with using snow tires in the winter. I've been towing with them at 35 to 38 PSI. Coming down the Thruway to the WNY M & G when I was passed by a semi or straight rig I could definately feel them. It was more of a buffeting action than the white knuckled rides I had before John set up my hitch.
I haven't really noticed a soggy rear end when making quick turns but then again seeing my previous trailer was a '59 Metzendorf the Sunline tows like a dream.

I appreciate all the info and Jay it was very helpful to hear that we have the same set up and what you're running.

I'll review all the info that everyone sent me and I'll let you know what I decide on. Seeing the Sunline is all winterized and waiting to be covered I'll have to wait until next spring to tell you how the new tires tow.

Thanks again.

Doug

[Jim-Bev-2363]

I'm having new tire problems with my 2008 Expedition. I took it to the local rubber shop and they installed Michelin p265/70R18. The door sticker says I should have P255/70R18. I do not know the difference of the sizes.

With the new tires while driving I was being blown all over the road, with 35PSI nitrogen, because of sidewall flex. I returned to the dealer and complained, he drove the vehicle and raised the tire pressure to 48PSI hot. After cooling the presure has lowered to around 45PSI. The ride was ofcourse harder but I could stand that since the control was acceptable without pulling the TT. Not so sure what will happen after hooking up.

I will return to the dealer with some questions about the setup of this tire. What will the increased pressure do to the wear of the tire while not towing. What will the pressure need to be when towing? Why put a 265 tire on my car when it called for 255s? What will the difference in tire size do to my vehicle and towing ability and/or mileage?

I did tell them I wanted a set of tires capable of towing 5,000 pounds of TT so they should have fixed me right the first time. These tires do have a thirty day no questions asked return policy that is up the 16th of the month so I do need to solve any problems before then.

Yes, I do want a tire that will handle towing my 1991 T-2363 but I do not want that tire to wearout in 10,000 miles.

Thanks for any helpful input.

jim

[Sunline Fan]

Jim,

That size tire should be a little wider than the stock one.

35 PSI for an Expedition seems quite low to me. I would think the range he put them in would be good, like 45.

Also, the tires are a "P" tire, meaning they are for passenger cars. Sure, they do fit on an Expedition, but an "LT" (light truck) tire will provide you with more sidewall stability for the same size tire. The fact that these new tires are wider, with soft sidewalls, will just increase the flex and you being all over the road.

Before you run around with 45 PSI though, go look up the max pressure for the tire is on the sidewall. Let's make sure you don't exceed that. Then if you do move up to an LT tire, have them check the inside of the rim once the tire is off to make sure the rim can handle the extra pressure. I suspect it will be fine though.

My door sticker on the Excursion says 45 and 55 PSI front and rear. The stock tires, which were the same size as I have now, were Load Range D with a max pressure of 65. Now with Load Range E's, they max at 80 and I run them at 65. Much more stable at that and the stock rims work fine with the new pressure range.

Jon

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Thanks Jon. The men at the tire shop don't seem concerned about these tires handling my situation but we'll see how they act when I pull into their lot with the full outfit, LOL!

Michelin tire information......
P265/70R18, LTX M/S2, Max Load 2601, 114T, DOT B77B, Max Air 44 PSI, Radial X.

Expedition information.........
Tire Front - Size P255/70R18, Cold Pressure 35 PSI
Tire Rear - Size P255/70R18, Cold Pressure 35 PSI
Spare - P265/70R17, Cold Pressure 35 PSI


Vehicle Information
Date - 09/07, GVWR - 7625#
Front GAWR = 3500#, Rear GGAWR = 4250#
Seating capacity - Total 8, Front 2, Rear 6
Max Cargo 1616#

WB 131, DX FL, R 1, Asle 16, TR C, SPR HHBB, 7B714 KOA , Type MPV


It seems the door sticker tire pressure rating doesn't mean much when new tires are added. It does tell factory original specs but not what new tires may/should be run at.

When looking at the vehicle door sticker and the axle ratings are those actual or maximum? Loaded with fuel or empty.

I'll need to hookup tomorrow, or soon, and see how the tires act with a load on them. Luckily I live close to the main highway and can test handling without going through alot of city traffic.

Almost forgot the T-2363 Information from the factory specs.....
Axle weight empty - 3065#
Gross vehicle weight rating - 5000#
Hitch weight - 495#
Twin 20# propane
Fresh water - 34 Gal, Gray water - 25 Gal, Black water - 25 Gal

I'm sure I forgot something but that is about it for now.


jim

[canoe2]

Well I bit the bullet and got rid of my worn out after 30,000 miles Michelin LTX A/S and went on my mechanic's recommendation and bought Toyo Open Country H/T. I have Toyo snow tires and love them and so far I'm finding my new tires to be much quieter than the old ones. My camper is still covered and in the back yard as it is still snowing so I have no clue how they will tow. My mechanic says everyone that he has sold them to so far loves them. I'll let everyone know how they are when I start camping.

Doug

[Steve Collins]

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

Michelin tire information......
P265/70R18, LTX M/S2, Max Load 2601, 114T, DOT B77B, Max Air 44 PSI, Radial X.

Jim,

What load range rating were your previous tires and what are the new tires rated?

From the way you're describing the difference in required inflation, it sounds like you had B's and the tire shop moved you up to C's. B's would require a max inflation of 35 psi while C's would go to 50 psi.

(This from a guy who runs 6 load range E tires that are aired down to 65 psi!)

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Steve, The new tires state Max Load of 2601 but I didn't see the load 'rating' letter on them. I could have missed it I guess. Will double check tomorrow. The factory tires were Perelli white letter tires and I don't remember the ratings on them. I do know they were abused tires and not maintained properly but it could have been a weight rating issue for them too. Wear patterns indicated improper PSI and was the main reason for the new tires and 28,000 miles.

The sidewall of the new tires says Max PSI is 44 PSI. I think the guy at the dealership said they would stand 57 PSI. Again that is another thing I have to check with them about. Damned details.

I probably should have kept the motorhome since I had a new set of tires on it, LOL!

jim

[henryj]

Jim, check out tirerack.com to do your research and click on the specs tab. You can also click on the "shop by vehicle" tab at the top of the page to get more info as to which brands are available.

Near as I can tell your OEM size is not available in this tire and they just bumped you to what is commonly called "plus one" which is generally ok if it fits, but...

In your case that tire is at least 1/2" taller than OEM and that will numerically lower the axle ratio. JohnB will know by how much. If it fits, going wider and lower, like 265/65R18 is generally better than just wider by itself as the lower profile tire will have a stiffer sidewall.

in my experience 35 psi is still not enough for a heavy tv just driving around town. P series tires are passenger car rated. For a truck application their load rating is actually downgraded by 10%. I used to run P series at 42 psi on my previous tv, but an upgrade to LT LRD and 60 psi made it a different truck.

Which Expedition and model have you got? I'll nose around tirerack and see what I can find. If you've got sloppy handling without a trailer already, that is not good.

As to your other questions:
The door sticker axle weights are ratings for maximum full load. The psi gives the OEM tires the load carrying capacity to at least match the axle ratings. For a P series tire, 35 psi generally gives the max. load for an SL tire, but it is quite common for these to go up to 44 psi just to make a stiffer tire for better handling. P series XL tires go up to 51 psi. It is not at all necessary to run a tire at 35 psi just because the door sticker says so, but it definitely shouldn't be run at less as that would reduce load capacity and make a very sloppy flexing tire. When replacing OEMs, always buy the same or more load capacity as stamped on the sidewall--see tirerack's tables--and, if they are LRC, LRD or LRE inflate them to way more than 35 psi. If you decide to go that route, there are load inflation tables that have that worked out for you.

Henry

[henryj]

Jim, I think you need a new dealer as well as new tires. No P series tire I know of takes 57 psi, and certainly not the LTX M/S 2. The max. pressure and max. load is molded into the sidewall. No amount of verbiage trumps that.

Henry

[Jim-Bev-2363]

After looking online about tire load ratings I think the new tires are rated as "LTX" which might be a light truck, X rating which transfers to a maximum load pressure of 41 PSI. This is closer to the lettering on the side of the tire giving a maximum tire pressure of 44 PSI. Perhaps the first mechanic that installed the tires simple got the pressure wrong and it should have been 44 PSI. A simple oversight to create so much doubt about the tires. I do still wonder about the PSI when under full load. If I am at the maximum pressure rating now, without hooking up, what will need to be done after hooking up.

A continuing saga, I guess.

jim

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Henry, I do still have until the 16th to return these tires if they aren't right for the job. In the next two days I'll hookup the TT and return to the dealer. Then they will have to make me confident in their choice. I am like you and think the tires are at their maximum without the TT. I probably will end up returning them for a stronger tire set.

[Jim-Bev-2363]

My tow vehicle is the 2008 Ford Expedition EL Limited.

I think this page is for my vehicle.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...ting=S&tab=All