This hitch looks ideal

[awellis3]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Teach, I'll type more later, you almost have it all but there are a few opinions yet to think thru. While your out haggling... look at the Equal-I-zer while your there. I would not drop it off the shopping list just yet.

John

Just got back from the RV show ... only ONE hitch rep in the whole friggin' three buildings worth of stuff. I found folks selling knives, shoes, aluminum siding, even a yard leaf rake, but no hitches!

I got to see the Blue Ox. At $745, it seemed a bit pricey.
I ordered the DVD from Equalizer and watched it today. They're back on the list.

Teach

[JohnB]

Hi Teach

Here are some thoughts to your questions. I’ll type in blue to answer your questions then add some more below.

Originally Posted by awellis3

Thanks, John, I got it now.
My take: 1) The Reese and the Husky hitches exert force to re-center the trailer (spring pack and bar trying to return to level and in the detent) but the Equal-i-zer doesn't.
It is true that the Equal-I-zer is high constant friction regardless of position. That is how that design works.

After doing more reading on the Husky and trying to not get caught up in the marketing hype, it does provide some assist (pressure aka force) at the hitch head in an opposite direction to the sway force acting on the TT. This is a positive thing. However the question is how much assist? After reading the part numbers and the instructions there is only 1 hitch head/spring assembly for tongue weights from 500# all the way to 1,400#. And that lines up with a trailer weight of 4,000# to 14,000#. That’s a wide range for 1 spring pack. I’ll reserve judgment on how effective the spring pack is until I know more about the how much force the springs provide. After reading the manual and how you unhook the hitch, I suspect that the spring force is not in the 1,000’s of pounds. See below for more details on this spring force.

The Reese DC is different. They came up with a unique mouse trap of an idea. When the sway force is high enough to over come the friction of the DC detent, the WD bar starts to move and the load on the WD bar goes up. The helps create more friction. The further off center the WD bar gets the higher the force to resist the sway. The sway can still overcome this setup, TV and TT play a large role here too as to when the sway force will overcome the DC friction hold. Now to the so called centering action, since the WD bar is pushing down on the cam, when the sway force lets up (wind gust subsides) that higher WD force helps the TV and TT easier come back in line. Due to the mechanical advantage of pushing straight down on the cam with an angled WD bar and a whole lot of friction going on, I would not declare the recentering force to be very high here either. Is it something, yes, it is a lot in the big picture of things, no.

The better advantage I see of the Reese DC is that way it creates the friction is very high and that the friction increases when the sway forces try to break the friction loose. None of the others we are talking about here do that. The little self centering force that comes is a side benefit but it is not much. If the Reese DC had a roller on the WD working in a true detent then yes the recentering would be more powerfull. However the roller defeats the entire purpose of creating high friction.


2) Reese requires drilling the frame. The other two don't. Yes this is true. Everyone has a different opinion on drilling 4 holes in the frame. Mine is, if done correctly it will not affect the strength of my frame in the way I use the TT. And for me, I drill holes in steel all the time so it is not a problem to add them. If I can gain a more effective anti sway system, the 4 drilled holes is a not a problem for myself. For folks who do not have metal working tools this could be a big issue.

3) Once the Reese is set up the first time, it is good-to-go. The other two must have the friction points on the sway bar set each time you hook up. Well, almost. Once the Reese DC is setup, as long as you do not highly change tongue weights or truck bed weight aft of the TV rear axle, then yes it is good to go. If you change the weights enough, the WD on the truck needs to be reset and a recheck on the DC settings.

I do not know what you mean by the other 2 must have the friction points on the sway bar set up each time. Yes on the friction sway bar, you turn it on and off and need to make sure it is the correct tightness. On the Blue OX or the Equal-I-zer it is good practice to check the torque on the trunnion lugs often as they can loosen up over time from the pivoting action. OR wear in the trunnion create less tension. This is manageable, however it does need to me checked.

4) Any friction point will wear eventually and loose its CoF value. The Reese is less susceptible to this and the Husky's washer stack can be serviced (but it still depends on friction at the WD bar). H’mm well not exactly. The CoF of friction of steel on steel or steel on brake pad is constant regardless of wear. It does not change. However contamination on the surface can for sure change it. Water, dirt, grease etc. The Husky washer and spring pack I’ll address below.

Seems my decision will be between the Husky and the Reese. Going to a RV show today to do some pricing and haggling. Consider all options and get the best you feel will work for your TT and TV. I’ll add more to this below as well as none of these hitch manufactures will guarantee any outcome of just adding there hitch will it solve your problem

Oh, one more question: Why are the shanks so long? Seems as if the closer the ball is to the bumper, the better. Your point is very valid. The closer the ball is to the bumper the less effect sway can act on the TV. However in can come with side effects given your TT and TV. See pics below. It will be a trade off between dead smack against the bumper and no crunching the TV fender into the TT.

Thanks much for all the help, Not a problem. As you can tell we sort of get into this kind of stuff and it helps the rotten weather blues right now.
Teach

Here is some further investigation on the Husky Centerline in case you did not already find this and for others following.

A you tube video. There is for sure marketing hype in there. They are comparing there new hitch to no sway control. Duh!!! And they are even comparing it to there own existing friction sway bar. And they are taking a jab at Equal-I-zer. They did not go after the Reese DC.

http://www.huskytow.com/FTP/HuskyFea...CenterLine.pdf

And here is link to the info page on there web site.
http://www.huskytow.com/FTP/HuskyFea...eHitch_hv.html

Here are some things to think thru and observations.

The self centering feature. If the springs where very large in force, they could aid in creating very high resistance to sway forces. However if they are very heavy it creates other issues to contend with. Some of which are, very high side forces put into the truck receiver pin box trying to twist it off. Making it very difficult and dangerous to hook up the WD bars as you need to pivot them out to get them on. If you have to pull 500# of force on the WD bar to swing it on, there are not many campers that can use the hitch.

Trying to back into just how strong they are, a broad estimation on the spring force of a lever 30” long (the WD bar) and the ability to rotate out the WD bar by hand with say 30# of pull at the end of the WD bar (they state to rotate out the WD bar and pull out the retaining pin) would create a 75# push at the spring pack if the cam end is 1” beyond the pivot point. If you pull 50# on the WD bar that would be 125# at the spring pack. And if you pull 100# (your beastly) on the end of the WD bar that is 250# at the spring pack. So I’m “guesstimating” the spring pack might be in the 150 maybe 200# range if that. This is a estmated guess and need someone to report back with actual something to help estimate better. Husky I'm sure experimeted with spring force and settled on what the consumer can handle.

The next thing is from the instructions it talked about the shims to take up space between the end of the trunnion and the spring pack. And from the video and pictures there is a snap ring on the spring canister. The spring force is limited to a stop position by the snap ring and the shims allow a take up on excess wear or play. When the hitch is new there may be mostly no play but they talk about for maintiance if you can push the shim in between the trunnion and spriong pad, then install it. That tells me that the trunnion end is not under constant spring force all the time. There is a small amount of play in the trunnion. As the TT is affected by sway and the WD bar breaks loose the friction grip at the L brackets then the springs come into service. Not before hand. So once the TT is into a level of sway the spring helps assist to create more resistance to sway and once the sway gust is over there is that amount of push to help the TT track back to straight. If it is 150 to 200# of push then that is all it is. It is better then nothing but that is it.

Here is a top level look at the Husky Centerline. It has some good features. I like the tooth washer setup on the hitch head tilt. That makes for a good and easy head tilt feature. They used the same principal Pull rite uses on there hitch head. The L brackets looks to appear to be made well. The holding power of the hitch in creating friction comes primarly from the L brackets. It is much more effective over the friction sway bar. They sort of copied and improved the L bracket concept from Equal-I-zer. The spring centering, it is a good idea and it will help however the L bracket high friction is what makes the hitch resist the majority of the sway. When they created a spring pack to work from a 4,000# to a 14,000# TT that was the heads up to me. The dynamics of TT’s differences in that range is enormous. That is like a T1950 compared to my 9,200# 32 foot T310SR. They have a good setup manual, better then most and better then Reese. However they are a little light in how to set up WD on the truck.

The Husky hitch is a good hitch due to the features it has I’m not knocking it, just trying to carve thru the marketing hype. Obvioulsy they cannot yet break the Reese patents.

The question now is which one is the most effective in this series of friction hitches to prevent sway from shifting the TV? That depends on a number of things. There is no 1 all best friction hitch. Each have there own unique pros and cons.

OK some more comments. I searched up most all posts on RV.net on the Husky Centerline. I found your post there as well. The hard part in the posts I found was to get anything that was solid in “why” those who bought it worked OK for them. We see this a lot and it has value. If 10 people bought something and it worked well for them, this means with there combination of TT, TV and that hitch, it worked. While that adds value they may not know why it worked. If there TV was large and stable enough, there TT balanced well and low profile, the hitch does not have to work that much. And then where did they tow with it?

Some folks buy a hitch from the TT dealer, dealers installs it and life is good. They never had a problem and they report it that way as if there are no problems there is nothing to fix. Then the next guy did the same thing, has the same hitch and is fighting this thing all the time getting frustrated.

Teach, think of it this way. You said you where a mechanic for 10 years. I’m sure you can relate to a ratchet wrench. There is 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 and 1” drive ratchet wrenches and sockets. They are all good tools in the draw. Using a 1/4" drive on a rusted tight 1/2" bolt either does nothing or you break your knuckles… Even 3/8” drive can break your knuckles depending on how tight it was. Using a 1/2" drive and with some effort the bolt breaks loose. Using 3/4” or 1” drive, (the wrench weighs a lot) but it snaps that bolt off in a jiffy. Any of these friction principal hitches work just like this. Key is pick the right tool for your setup. That’s the hard part.

OK now on the ball distance to the shank. Closet is best for lowest rear overhang effect of the tow ball behind the rear axle. The trade off is it comes with a turning radius clearance that may not be usable.

Here is my prior K2500 Suburban and a T2499 in a full turn. I miss the LP tanks the side of the TT.


My K2500 Suburban and the T310SR in a full turn. I miss the LP tanks the side of the TT.



Here is my F350 and my T310SR. I miss the LP tanks the side of the TT.






I have a drive way where I have to do a full 180 turn and sometimes in CG's we have to do that too. So I set up my hitches so that I can turn as full as possible before a crunch.

Remember what I posted here is one point of view and I'm always open for anyone to find somthing not right with what I have stated. I mess up just like the next guy. And do not let it stop you from getting the Husky if that is what you have seached out as the best. However since you buying a new hitch do not let the fact of $50 or even $200 change you from the one that you feel has the best working principal. The hitch is no place to pinch this kind of small money.

Hope this helps

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by donreitz

Anyone use a Pullrite hitch? The concept seems to make sense.
Don

Hi Don

I do not know of anyone here on SOC using a Pullrite. I have investigated it a lot though. If I encounter problems with my existing setup it would be on my list of possibles.

They have the best mechanical principle for not having the ability to create sway in the 1st place. They come in 2 sizes, 1,000# WD bars and 10,000# pull and 2,000# WD bars and 20,000# pull. If they work on your application it will not produce sway due to the way it works.

However it is not a total solve all for every towing problem and that was what hurts. For TT towing with WD it is great. However it sort of takes over your truck. If you are not using it for WD towing, it is limited to 350# tongue and 3,500# pull in weight carrying. And that includes the 2K, 20K beast. My 1 ton truck is then limited to what my Chevy Trailblazer can tow on the ball in weight carrying mode. I even contacted Pull Rite if they would do a custom with a high rated weight carrying auxiliary receiver. Answer was no.

Here is a 1,000# WD pullrite installed on one of my camping buddy’s F250. Were where discussing this quote a bit here a month or so ago.


John

[rncordy]

John B.

I want to congratulate you, and thank you for the most lucid and objective analysis of WD hitches I can find on the internet! Well done!

I have a new rig on order and am studying as best I can to make the decision as to what I am going to buy. Delivery of the new rig is in late October.

I like the simplicity of the Husky and the Blue Ox. I'm guessing they are both quieter than the Equalizer and perhaps the Reese DC.

Do you have any updates since you Feb post?

Again, excellent analysis, and THANKS!

Bob

[markbrit]

Originally Posted by donreitz

Anyone use a Pullrite hitch?

I had one for the Sunline when I bought it. It was specialized to fit a 1995 ford van so it was useless to me. In reading about it , it appeared very interesting and did not read a bad review. Only thing I can tell you is it was very heavy. A couple hundred pounds, honestly I would not want it hooked to my truck as you would always be carting it around.

Teach,
We have similiar campers, I bought an equal-i-zer setup from Equal-i-zer Travel Trailer Hitches - RVWholesalers.com RV Parts

I am very happy with it. - Mark

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by rncordy

I want to congratulate you, and thank you for the most lucid and objective analysis of WD hitches I can find on the internet! Well done!

I have a new rig on order and am studying as best I can to make the decision as to what I am going to buy. Delivery of the new rig is in late October.

I like the simplicity of the Husky and the Blue Ox. I'm guessing they are both quieter than the Equalizer and perhaps the Reese DC.

Do you have any updates since you Feb post?

Again, excellent analysis, and THANKS!

Bob

Hi Bob,

1st welcome to Sunline Owners Club. Glad to have you with us.

2nd, WOW thank you for your kind words. I’m humbled.

Noise on the Reese DC and the Equal-I-zer. First the Reese. Pending your tongue weight, if in the 1,100# and higher, you can use vaseoline on the cams to help quite them down. I have a heavy tongue and do not hear much of any noise other then once in a while in a turn. If you have a 1,000# and under tongue weight then it is not so much wanted to use vaseoline. You can but it will reduce the effectiveness of the hitch some in sway control pending your towing setup.

The Equal-I-zer. I have heard some are loud in turns. They do sell a plastic wear pad that goes on the L brackets that helps quite them down, but again pending your setup it have the ability to reduce the effectiveness’ of the anti sway.

The Husky has L brackets like the Equal-I-zer and noise can come from the L brackets regardless of brand. I have not yet seen the plastic pads offered on the Husky

The Blue Ox has adjustable trunnion pivots. Pending your setup once again they may make some noise. Lube here helps but can again in some cases reduces the effectiveness.

Again part of this is your towing combo. Lighter tongue weigth campers have the ability to make less noise regardless of brand. All of those hitches work on high friction as an anti sway holding system. The high friction can create some noise when the pivot or sliding WD bar breaks free and starts to move. You can survey here on other folks who have those types of hitches on what they hear in noise level. Also ask what loaded tongue weight they have if they now it. To them with there setup they may not mind it at all and have a light 600 to 800# tongue. Others may have a 1,000# tongue and just deal with the noise that comes. Part of this is a personal tolerance choice. I have heard some cuss out an Equal-I-zer or DC for noise and others who love them and either deal with the noise or help it with the appropriate lube for that hitch.

I myself would not let noise be the sole factor in deciding on a high friction based hitch. They all have the same issue of friction breaking free that can create noise. Actually it would be down to the bottom of the must have criteria. Here is how I shop for a hitch or recommend to others.

Note this is amongst the high friction based hitches. For the higher end hitches like the Hensley, Pro Pride or Pull-rite the choices change some.

My 1st criteria is, which one is the most effective in controlling sway?

Then 2nd is, will this hitch fit properly on my TT A frame.

Then 3rd comes the quality of the construction of the hitch and the how the company stands behind it.

Then 4th do I want to keep this hitch across many TT’s or dedicate it to just this one TT I have now?

Noise has not been in the must haves, more a nice to have. I get more noise from the TT leaf spring suspension then I do my hitch.

I stay objective on all hitches. They all have value, some more then others. If a fellow forum member already has a certain brand, we help them make it as good as it can be. Pending there TT and TV is may or may not be enough and that then brings up the possibility of an upgrade.

If someone does not have a hitch bought yet then if they ask I will make a recommendation and that is based on my 4 things above.

If you would like me to suggest some options for you I would be glad to and explain why but I need to know more about your TT and the TV.

Can you provide the TV make, model, year, wheel base and suspension size? For the TT, year, brand, model and ideally a link to the mfg web site to save me some hunting. If it is a Sunline, then no problem I can find it quick.

The hitch is only part of the equation. Pending the TT and TV you may have more options then other combos.

Hope this helps

John

[Hematite]

Originally Posted by donreitz

Anyone use a Pullrite hitch? The concept seems to make sense.
Don

Funny, I saw a Pullrite on a truck that was being used by a caterer at our car club picnic. I was fascinated by the ball that swings from side to side. I asked him about it and he said that when he bought the truck the previous owner told him that once he used this hitch he would never use another type.
Suffice it to say, the caterer agrees. He said that it offered tremendous stability when towing and that it made precise backing up VERY easy. He was very much sold on the Pullrite.

[JohnB]

Hi Rick

Yes, the Pullrite is a simple effective principal. I investigated the Pullrite a lot including contacting then for one for my F350 and if they would alter it for me. It seems they are really into the 5th wheel hitch business and the Pullrite trailer WD hitch while offered is no where in the same volume as the Super Glide 5th wheel hitch. So they only offer the 2 models. The 1,000# and the 2,000# system and nothing in the middle.

In my case the 2,000# Pullrite hitch has an auxiliary receiver in it. The main WD hitch has a swinging 2 1/2" draw bar that is used for towing with WD. The auxiliary receiver is a fixed 2” pin box welded in the cross frame. It is a non WD receiver and only rated at 300# tongue weight. Which was the problem for me. Here I have a 1 ton truck that can use the 2,000# WD hitch but can only haul 300# tongue weight when in non WD. I use the truck for flat bed trailers that tow non WD and in this case I would have to hook up the WD hitch to tow a 500# tongue weight.

They did do back to there eng dept to check if a larger upgraded aux receiver could go in and they stated no. I know it will fit as the mounting frame is similar to my Reese Tow Beast receiver. But for a 1 off hitch I’m sure they did not want to have to deal with the changes even as slight as they are.

I also asked if I could get any other WD bars then the 2K ones. Nope that’s it.

So if my current setup ever runs into issues, I have some things to work thru to make the 2k Pullrite fit all my combination needs. However I had a buddy with one on his Chevy 2500HD and he said for sure it works as advertised. They are a great hitch where they fit the application.

John

[Hematite]

Yes, I see that although it is an excellent design, it is only excellent in its very limited applications. Unfortunate, really, that the manufacturer doesn't develop the possibilities for this hitch. I would think that they sell very few since the competition from the Reese and Equalizer hitches must be daunting.