Sway Control With Surge Coupler

dtstanton · 08-02-2013, 12:26 AM

Please bear with me, guys. I know I kind of brought this issue up before, but I'm still confused as to what I should do. Another forum/venue has my wife afraid to go anywhere beyond our usual nearby haunt because of the sway bar issue. The vast majority of the members there say to use sway control all of the time. I brought up my situation, and they fell silent.

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Dear Abby,

Our Sunline T1350 originally had surge brakes. The PO replaced the axle not long before we bought it - with a non-brake axle. The surge coupler is still there and in use, but there are no brakes on the TT. Not a biggie so far.

Manufacturers recommend against friction type sway control to be used with surge brakes. Ok, we have the surge coupler but not the brakes to go with it. I am presuming that even though we do not have hydraulic brakes but do have the surge coupler, we should still abide by manufacturer recommendations.

1. Is there another kind of sway control that we can use with the surge coupling?

2. Is it safer to put friction sway control on a tongue with a surge coupling - against manufacturer recommendations, or dismiss the sway control idea altogether in this case?

3. Would I be better off getting rid of that big ugly surge coupler and having a normal one put on?

4. I am presuming that in light of how surge couplers work, sway control could cause handling problems. Is this a reasonable presumption?

-Confused

MACK C-85 · 08-02-2013, 09:09 AM

Quote:

3. Would I be better off getting rid of that big ugly surge coupler and having a normal one put on?

The surge brake coupler has a hydraulic cylinder in it. The connector to the tow vehicle is actually attached to the piston of the cyclinder. As your tow vehicle brakes and slows, the weight of the trailer pushes against the hydraulic cyclinder which applies the trailer brakes. They were mostly used in marine applications where electric brakes and water were an issue. When you put on a sway bar, you have now placed a solid connection in parallel with the hydraulic cyclinder, and the trailer can no longer push on the cyclinder, basically deactivating the brakes.

I would replace the coupler with a solid coupler and use the sway bar.

Mack

Gene · 08-02-2013, 01:52 PM

It has been a looooooong time since I have seen a surge brake coupler. I remember them from the old Starcraft tent trailers, which I almost bought and a friend had. Since the surge brake would activate when trying to back up there was a pin or bolt that could be inserted to effectively "lock out" the coupler so it would not move. Does your's have a place to put in a pin? That may make it ok with a friction sway control since the coupler would no longer move and it doesn't do anything now anyway.

PS - Got a chuckle out of the "Dear Abby"

hburkholder · 08-02-2013, 02:55 PM

Dear Confused: There probably is a hole to insert a pin when you back up, but if it hasn't been used in years it's probably rusted anyway. That said, I agree with Mack. Replace the coupler. Probably 4 bolts holding it on. Just cut the brake line if it's still there. New coupler is probably $20 or $30 for that trailer.
Abbeys' fill in.............

mainah · 08-03-2013, 07:13 AM

The 1350 is pretty light but most manufactures say any thing in excess of 1,000# needs brakes. Have a look at your TV manual.

dtstanton · 08-03-2013, 08:37 AM

Gene, I don't know. I'll have to check when I get back to the CG.

Harold, this one is welded on. I know a welder, though.

Tim, I know - but it is what it is.

I don't have the resources to make our TT just like a new one with all the things people say we should have, so we make due with what it is. We adjust to what we have, and that's one reason we went from an S-10 to a Yukon, load with proper weight distribution, and use appropriate driving technique for conditions.

Thanks for all your comments, guys. They are appreciated!

mainah · 08-03-2013, 04:09 PM

I don't think you would have any real need for a sway control but they did drive surge brakes nuts some times but if they are not doing any thing any way it should not pose a problem. If the new axle had no brakes all it is a moot point any way. I pull a T1700 with a Tacoma with no sway or WD.

dtstanton · 08-05-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene

Since the surge brake would activate when trying to back up there was a pin or bolt that could be inserted to effectively "lock out" the coupler so it would not move. Does your's have a place to put in a pin? That may make it ok with a friction sway control since the coupler would no longer move and it doesn't do anything now anyway.

This coupling looks like mine, but it's welded in between the ends of the A-frame instead of bolted on. Would the bolt (circled) be the one in question? (It's got a locknut on the other end.) It's just loose enough to move with the coupler and appears that if I tightened it down good, it may lock it down.

Quote:

PS - Got a chuckle out of the "Dear Abby"

It seemed appropriate. <G>

Gene · 08-05-2013, 07:53 PM

That looks like it could be it, been a long time since I saw one. If it keep the hitch ball from pushing back then you know.

Yes, a new hitch head would be nice BUT you do what you gotta do so you can get out there camping.

mainah · 08-06-2013, 06:29 AM

I'm a little lost here there are no brakes on the axle the surge cylinder is not connected to any thing is the plan to just keep the thing from moving? If so a tightened bolt will not do it a weld will. Have you asked a weld shop about a new hitch install? They should be able to deal with that in a hour or so. Another thing to consider you have no brake away trailer breaking.

dtstanton · 08-06-2013, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainah

I'm a little lost here there are no brakes on the axle the surge cylinder is not connected to any thing is the plan to just keep the thing from moving?

First of all, Tim, another forum/venue has raised concerns with my wife about the "necessity" of using sway control. The vast majority says "ya gotta have it" for safety reasons - period. When I mention surge couplers, they clam up as if the subject was plague infected. Therein lies the root of it all. I agree that when the installation allows, sway control is good idea. That is a "given".

I'm just looking for information concerning the concept of a surge coupler used with sway control. (Brakes do not enter into it, only the coupler.) For one, is it better to use friction sway control on a surge coupling against manufacturers' recommendations or not use it? Would there be a control issue if I was to install friction sway control on my existing setup? That is, is it safer to add sway control or not - with a surge coupler? That coupler moves by design, and sway control resists unusual movement of the tongue/trailer. Sway control is designed to reduce/stop sway. If the flex in the coupler moves, and the sway bar stops that movement - will it in effect cause sway?

FTR, I have had no problems with sway at all.

I am leaning towards replacing it with a normal coupler, but I haven't checked with weld shops or welders yet. I'm just on a fact-finding mission.

mainah · 08-06-2013, 05:10 PM

The way I understand it sway control interferes with the surge control systems breaking effectiveness perhaps I’m all wet someone else might chime in. I really don’t think something as light and properly loaded as a 1350 should have any issue with sway. Any way a weld shop could weld the surge hitch solid in a matter of minutes of course the best method would be a standard hitch coupler.

dtstanton · 08-06-2013, 05:31 PM

I wouldn't think so either, Tim. Since I'm still a bit of a newbie at TTs and towing, I have to defer to those with more knowledge and experience.

I'm actually kind of surprised that it even had surge brakes originally. I would expect them on boat trailers, since they would presumably be more immersible than electric.

Thanks for all your help.
-Dale

**Sunline Fan** · 08-06-2013, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtstanton

I'm actually kind of surprised that it even had surge brakes originally. I would expect them on boat trailers, since they would presumably be more immersible than electric.

Dale, that's definitely a modification. I've never known any Sunline to have a surge brake coupler on the front besides yours. I would be surprised if they even had the knowledge on how to outfit a trailer with surge brakes.

Also, I'm not sure surge brakes would be RVIA approved, which means the trailer couldn't have been approved. There's no way for a breakaway switch to work with surge brakes.

dtstanton · 08-07-2013, 04:22 AM

Thank you for that, Jon! That steers me more definitely in the direction of getting it replaced with a solid coupler - when I can.

mainah · 08-07-2013, 10:51 AM

Technically by the letter of the law surge brakes are illegal DOT says the brakes must be able to be controlled by the driver but it’s been mostly ignored for decades. Surge brakes do have a break away feature loaded against a spring (or they are supposed to) you don’t find them much on campers mostly because they are only used infrequently. Brake fluid collects moisture at a pretty good clip and the internal parts tend to rust up with lack of use. The maintenance on surge brakes is very high. A lot of the newer stuff has electric lock outs for the surge brakes so you don’t have to pin the coupler to backup tied to the reverse signal in the 7 pin trailer wiring. Surge breaking also can’t be used to stop a swaying trailer like the electric type.