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Old 03-19-2007, 07:46 PM   #1
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Reese Dual Cam Weight Distribution Bars and T-2499

I have a 2007 Solaris T-2499 TT. I tow using the Reese Dual Cam hitch, with the 1200 lbs distribution bars. Are these bars too stiff? The reason I ask is that, while towing, I seem to feel every bump and therefore, my ride is often quite rocky. Do I need to downgrade to the next level of bars, so that the bars can be more flexible? If so, what bar weights do you recommend? Or should I continue to use the 1200 weight bars? If I should stay with the 1200 lbs bars, what would be the advantage of doing so?
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Old 03-19-2007, 10:12 PM   #2
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How funny that you should post this question!! We're towing a 2007 2499TT with an 2003 F250 Crew Cab, basically the same set up as your truck.

My wife and I were researching the options of Air Bags or Spring Healpers because we noticed the back side of our F250 was sagging a bit. We went to Great Time RV's in North Palm Beach FL as we were traveling through South Florida at the time. Bob Clark talked me out of Air Bags and the Spring Helpers, Saving me the $500 installation and informed me that our 1000lb Reese Dual Cam Load bars were too small for our set up.

He went on to say that I need to upgrade the bars to the 1200lb units as they are just the slightest bit beefier and would allow me to correct the truck angle to where it needs to be. Feel free to give him a call as he was highly knowledgable on the topic and I learned quite a bit from talking to him. 561-799-7078 or www.greattimervs.com

With the 1000lb bars, I dont notice the rough ride you have, but then my truck is a pick up and the bed not being attaced to the interior might loose some of the road sound. One thing I do notice is the bobbing after hitting a large dip in the road. He said this would be corrected after installing the larger bars.

Hope that helps?
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:53 AM   #3
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I have 1200# bars on my Dual Cam HP setup, rig info in signature. Stoltzfus RV in Adamstown set it up that way. They had told me with my truck I really didn't need to go that route, but I told them "Id rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it" I don't care how big my truck is compared to the trailer, I WILL NOT tow without sway control. You might want to refer to the post by John B about hitch/sway control set up. It's very very detailed with photos. Your setup might just need a bit of tweaking to get it just right.

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Old 03-20-2007, 10:04 PM   #4
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Covenantbro

Let me see if I can help. This may be a little long winded but may help. If you have 1,200# bars and a Reese DC, then most likely you have the Reese HP hitch head and Reese HP DC. I’ll post pic’s below. There are a lot of T2499 owners on the site here and I’ll go into some details to maybe help them and you too. The T2499 for DW and I is the perfect camper but it’s unique layout that make it so unique, also makes it have certain weight attributes about it.

I have a 2004 T2499 using the same hitch I believe you have. I have done a fair amount of weight and balance measuring and set up on the TT, my K2500 Suburban and the Reese hitch. Here is what I can tell you from my rig.

On my 2004 T2499 having 1,200# bars is a must in my case. After much investigation I have confirmed, I have a 1,200# tongue.(18% tongue of TT GVW) When I filled the fresh water tank the tongue gained another 200# making it 1,400#. (20.5% tongue) This problem created a real issue on my ½ ton Tahoe truck and was one of the reasons I upgraded to a ¾ Ton Suburban. I was overloading the rear axle on my Tahoe.

This tongue weight issue snuck up on me as I could not believe that the dry tongue of 765# could go that high. My dealer gave me 800# bars, the next size down and said I would be “fine”. I even told him I have no problem paying for the up charges for the heavier bar as it seemed so close to the dry tongue weight. He said no problem. I pushed again and he said he and would not send me down the road with something unsafe. So I took his word and took the 800# bars. He obviously had not ever weighed a loaded camper on the T2499 layout. He was sincere to his knowledge.

After I found this out my problem, I measured the tongue weight using the bath scale method. Using this method it was 1,400# loaded, no water. Later I learned my bath scale method was reading 200# heavy. And I then wrote a letter to Sunline direct. Here is the response from Sunline.

Dear John:

I have a feeling your method may be a bit off. We weigh trailers periodically throughout the model year. In the 2004 Model Year we weighed a 2499 model twice.

Both trailers were very close in weight. We weigh a base model in both the dry and wet mode. Let me explain, the dry mode is without any water, battery, or propane in the trailer. The wet mode is with a battery installed, full propane tanks and full fresh water tank(nothing in the gray or black tanks).

In the dry mode the trailer weighed 4788 lbs including a hitch weight of 680 lbs. In the wet mode the trailer weighed 5165 lbs including a hitch weight of 895 lbs.

According to our records your trailer had the following factory installed options:
4 Leveling Jacks
Mounted spare tire kit

These options only add about 120 lbs to the total weight of the trailer. I would say the hitch weight when the unit left the factory was in the range of 680 lbs.

I would try going to a scale and getting the attendant to let you weigh you truck alone and then hitch the trailer to the truck without the equalizing bars and pull just the truck onto the scale and get a weight that way.

Hope this helped.

Happy Camping,

Tim Martin


If you notice in that email, even Sunline agrees at the factory with no camping gear and full water, battery and propane, the camper had a 895# tongue. Well I knew my dealer and the 800# bars was way off when I loaded my camper. I have since upgraded the bars.

Since then I set out and did a major weight and balance study. I can now just about predict any weight object I add to the camper and what it will do to tongue weight. Using truck scale, a force jack and a Sherline tongue scale, I have a confirmed 1200# tongue no fresh water.

That real nice front cargo hole we have, well on my rig I could put 308# of gear in there. That 308# of gear adds 200# alone to the hitch. See pic’s. The propane and spring bars is not part of that 308#. They are not in the cargo hole.


And items on garage floor showing 308# in pieces of "stuff"


To make a long story short, 2 more letters to Sunline and I had to go into a serious weight and balance act to get my tongue weight down to 1,000# no fresh water (15% tongue) and 1,200# (16.5% tongue). Other wise I would be over my rear axle limit on my ¾ ton Suburban. You may want to check your TV. It too may have issues on the rear axle.

I have the normal camper amount of stuff” that weighs in the 1,000# of camping gear. (Actually, 1.100#) Yes it all adds up. You may travel lighter than I or heavier. But most likely you are close to the 1,100 or 1,200# tongue if not over with fresh water.

So I think your 1,200# bars are OK, I think your weight distribution (WD) may not be set up properly. When you say “I seem to feel every bump and therefore, my ride is often quite rocky”. Explain this more.

1. Is this when you hit a bump the the front and rear of the truck start into a humpy bumpy ride? Front down, rear up, then down, rear up until it stops? We call this “porpoising” which is most times caused by improper WD.

2. Also tell me something about how much weight you have in the truck. How many pounds of passengers in the front seat and rear seat and how many approx pounds of gear in the rear cargo area? What may be occurring is your have actually reached the GVWR of your truck and are fully loaded and if not slightly over loaded.

3. Tell me about the air pressure you run in the rear tires? For ½ ton SUV’s towing heavy tongues you can air them up to the max side wall pressure to help. Then let air back down after the camping trip.

4. When you feel the bumps, is the camper loaded with normal camping gear? Is the fresh tank loaded with water?

5. Tell us what tow vehicle you are using. Year, make, model? I have a lot of data on GM’s but can help with most others too.

This is my hitch. Tell me if yours looks like this so we know for sure what you have.


A top view


I’m truly trying to help here point you to where to look at your problem. Most of us learned this the hard way until someone helped explained it all. So do not feel alone. And along the investigation trail, you may find some things about your truck, like I did with my 1500 Tahoe, so that you can be proactive to help your situation. Once we know a little more about your rig, we can also help you in adjusting the Reese to be optimized and give the best ride and best anti-sway control.

Glad to help where I can, if I can.

John
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Old 03-21-2007, 09:21 PM   #5
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Thank You

I really appreciate you all taking your time and answering my question. After reading your responses I will be keeping my 1200# bars. I drive a 1997 Ford Expedition. My DW and I are new to RVing and have been on several weekend camping trips. Last week we had our first opportunity to camp on an extended basis (7 days). We had a wonderful time.

JohnB let me attempt to answer some of your questions:

1. We put about 1000 miles on the truck during the week. Our ride was not uncomfortable the entire trip. It was only uncomfortable when the wind was high and the road was bumpy (it wasn't a major expressway. It was a two lane road along the Gulf of Mexico in Florida's panhandle.) Yes, it was more humpty bumpty ride. We didn't experienced any swaying, as far as I could tell.

2. We didn't have much cargo in the truck during the trip - it was only me and my DW, our little dog (about 12lbs). We had about 5 to 10 gallons of fresh water in the fresh water tank (for using the rest room while traveling), enough clothes for a week, and grocery. We didn't store as much such in our storage compartment as you - maybe less than half.

3. I had the suggested tire pressure printed on the truck label. I have to research the "max side wall pressure." I'm not familiar with it.

5. I have a 1997 Ford Expedition, 5.4, 3.73, V8.

I notice that you set your chain link at number 5. I have been using #4. Perhaps I will use #5 next time and see if that makes a difference.

I really appreciate your help. I will keep the 1200# bars. But whatever information you can think of that will be beneficial to a newbie will be greatly appreciated. Again, thank you.
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Old 03-22-2007, 10:53 PM   #6
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Covenantbro

I have not forgotten you… I will be back to give you more specific info and answer all your questions. I’m just running a little behind tonight.

However until I can get back to you in the next day or so, see this link. It talks about WD setup on your vehicle and on the bottom of it is a post I have done which shows the Reese DC on my Sunline T2499. TT WD setup proceedure on RV.net

Also I saw you are running on 4 links under load (tension). This can be a problem where in some compound angle turns when the TV drops into a slight dip while turning. The hitch head pivots on an angle and the spring bar acts as a lever in the turn against the DC cam arm and can break off the actual cam bar as you proceed thru the turn. Each TT tongue setup is different and this does not always exist. But is can exist on low slung axle TT’s where the trailer ball coupler is mounted on top, just like yours and mine… Or on any HP DC not adjusted properly.

In the link I sent you to at the lower ½ of it is a link to a DC problems post with lot’s of pictures of my hitch and other camper friends who helped figure out this problem and a solution to it. DC problem post on RV.net There is 19 pages of doumented stuff there.

Yes you need to go to 5 chain links, but when doing so it will lessen the preload on your spring bars. To get that same loading back, you tilt the Reese HP head back to compensate. The serrated teeth on the Reese HP hitch head make this easy. On the HP head, 2 teeth clicks = about 1 chain link of loading. And once you do this, you have to tweak the DC back into alignment.

You will be doing this anyway as you optimize your WD setup which is most likely not set 100% optimized and causing some of your porposing. Going to 5 links and not adjusting the WD properly will actually make your problem worse. Tihs adjsuting is notn that complex once someone shows you how to do this. And it is good to know how to adjust your hitch anyway.

Read on those 2 links and that will get you started and probably then some.

Be back soon

John
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Old 03-23-2007, 12:02 AM   #7
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what about the smaller sunlines?

what kind of a hitch setup do you recommend for the smaller sunlines? We're newbies picking up a T2363. A relative has given us just a simple hitch with 2 chain link adjustable sway bars. We've seen the Reese hitch and equalizer brand hitch advertised, but thought they might be overkill for our smaller trailer. Our extended cab F250 is a heavy 1/2 ton (F150 with a beefed up suspension). We'd like a comfortable and safe ride and no snickering from the old pros we pass. 300 lbs of passengers and probably a couple bicycles and a stroller in the truck bed which is covered by a tonneau cover.
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Old 03-23-2007, 05:32 AM   #8
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Re: what about the smaller sunlines?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelly
what kind of a hitch setup do you recommend for the smaller sunlines? We're newbies picking up a T2363. A relative has given us just a simple hitch with 2 chain link adjustable sway bars. We've seen the Reese hitch and equalizer brand hitch advertised, but thought they might be overkill for our smaller trailer. Our extended cab F250 is a heavy 1/2 ton (F150 with a beefed up suspension). We'd like a comfortable and safe ride and no snickering from the old pros we pass. 300 lbs of passengers and probably a couple bicycles and a stroller in the truck bed which is covered by a tonneau cover.
Shelly,
Wait until JohnB gets back on here. He will get you set right up. Sounds like what you currently have is the weight distributing hitch, and "NEED" to add the integrated sway control to it. John might even have pics to help you out.

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Old 03-23-2007, 06:27 AM   #9
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Re: what about the smaller sunlines?

Hi Shelly,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelly
what kind of a hitch setup do you recommend for the smaller sunlines? We're newbies picking up a T2363. A relative has given us just a simple hitch with 2 chain link adjustable sway bars. We've seen the Reese hitch and equalizer brand hitch advertised, but thought they might be overkill for our smaller trailer. Our extended cab F250 is a heavy 1/2 ton (F150 with a beefed up suspension). We'd like a comfortable and safe ride and no snickering from the old pros we pass. 300 lbs of passengers and probably a couple bicycles and a stroller in the truck bed which is covered by a tonneau cover.


Even though you are using 1/2 ton and pulling a smaller trailer, it's still a good idea to have the WD hitch. I use a Draw Tite (Reese is the same thing) round bar style, 750 lb bars. I used this hitch on three of the four trailers in my sig. The one I didn't use it on was the 1550 because it had a 2" ball and was very light to begin with. I never actually got a chance to take that out for a weekend- I just bought it and sold it in about 4 months time. If you decide to go without a WD hitch, you should still have a sway control. Any ordinary standard hitch could have a bracket welded on to accomidate a sway control. I always use my sway on the highway; the only time I don't use it is when bringing it home from hibernation, which is only about a 25 minute ride and its only on small country roads, where I do about 60.

Jon
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Old 03-26-2007, 11:42 PM   #10
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Reese Draw Tite vs Equalizer

When you got your Reese setup did you consider the Equalizer brand? Are there advantages to one or the other?
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Old 03-27-2007, 04:59 PM   #11
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Shelly,

I never looked into the Equalizer. My parents actually bought the hitch originally from General RV in Wixom, MI with the 2653. I wasn't old enough to really remember a whole lot, but I just assumed they knew what they were doing. When we first got the 2653, we had a Ford Explorer. I'm really not in a position to comment on advantages for the Equalizer since I've never had one. All I can say about the Reese/Draw Tite is the whole setup in quite inexpensive compared to an Equalizer, Dual Cam, or Hensley. If you don't plan on using the trailer all the time, it's the way to go. If you plan on booking quite a few miles, it's probably better to upgrade your hitch choice. You'll notice the regular WD hitch is a popular choice among many RVers, whereas the more expensive ones aren't seen as much. I'll admit I haven't been out in a lot of campgrounds in a few years, but it was that way then. They may have become more popular now as technology improves.

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Old 05-05-2007, 03:01 PM   #12
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Interesting thread but it has me a bit puzzled. I tow a 2499 with my Silverado 2500HD D/A. I have the Dual-Cam setup using 800 lb bars. I tow dead level and the setup works just fine. It's not clear to me what the advantage of 1,200 lb bars is.
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Old 05-08-2007, 09:02 PM   #13
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Hi Don

I do not know your loaded tongue weight on your T2499, but I suspect it will be more than 800#. With our camper layout, filling the fresh tank alone adds 200# to the tongue.

Now to the 800# bars. Having had 800# bars and now having 1,200# bars and having a GM ¾ ton truck, I can help pass along what I have found out.

I called Reese tech service direct on this as my dealer set me up with 800# bars and after doing an amount of investigation, I found out they where too light. I asked Reese directly if it was OK to run their 800# spring bars on a 1,200# tongue.

They said no. With that much overloading a bar could possibly snap and it would void any and all Reese warranty running anything over the sticker ratings. Meaning an 800# bar is rated for a tongue load of up to 800# and that is OK. Anything over, voids the warranty.

Now each spring bar is actually capable of lifting 800#. So when you are driving straight ahead, a 1,200# tongue is held up by 2, 800# bars. Yes it will lift the tongue. They will be flexed fairly good but they will lift it and pending how you setup the WD, the TT can even be level. However most likely the WD on the front end of the truck may not be optimal.

The strain problem comes in a compound angle turn. See this pic of my Reese hitch with a DC. When you turn and the truck pivots side to side on an angle, the inside spring bar is holding up the entire tongue weight on it’s own. The outside spring bar is totally UN loaded and actually loose. It is just laying there.

Top view of turn


Side view of turn


So in this case in a normal 50 degree turn with only 8 degrees of truck tilt, if I was still running my 800# bars, I would be 50% over the 800# bar rating on that one inside spring bar with a 1,200# tongue. Going straight each bar is holding up 600# but in turns, each bar could be taking the whole load.

You have that nice 2500HD. Great truck. I know you say you are towing level, but has the front end of the TV returned to unhitched height? I do not think with 800# bars you be able to get there. While it could be riding OK, the steering setup is not optimal.

Another thing to think about is gear in the back of the PU bed behind the rear axle. If you are hauling something heavy back there while hitched to the TT, like fire wood or a quad, anything aft of the rear axle, the spring bars are lifting that weight on top of the TT tongue.

Don’t know what your exact setup is, but this is what I have found out in my investigation on the Reese WD hitch and my GM ¾ ton suspension. Gm sates in their manual they want the front end returned to unhitched height with a WD hitch. This did not make it into the actual truck manuals until around 2004. Here is a cut of that page out of a 2005 Silverado manual.


Hope this helps.

John
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Old 05-09-2007, 12:54 AM   #14
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JohnB, my hat is off to you, sir. Your descriptive reasoning for the heavier weight bars is one of the most rational and well stated that I have ever seen.

For years, I have been saying to folks that 3/4 ton trucks properly equipped with WD hitches and 1000# or 1200# weight bars are the only way to go with todays 7800# GVWR (and larger) trailers.

The manufacturers have been selling larger and larger trailers, and the dealers are still telling the customers that they can safely tow these bigger rigs with 1/2 trucks. Even with the newer 1/2 ton trucks with higher tow ratings than in the past, I think that the 3/4 and 1 ton models provide much safer platforms for towing.

My '99 T-2453 is in the 5500# GVWR class, and tows nicely with a 1/2 ton truck. My old Dodge is rated to tow 7,800#, so there is a bit of a safety margin. But if my budget allows, I will upgrade to something in the 3/4 ton range before attempting cross country trips.

Thanks again.
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Old 05-10-2007, 12:03 PM   #15
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Wow. I think I'll look into bigger bars. Thanks to JohnB.
Don
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