overheating question/suggestions

[kkeduda]

Hello,

I'm happy to say that I just completed my maiden voyage for my new saturn TT.

Everything went well except on the big hills, the engine temperature started to get hot. I can't say exactly how hot since the gauge isn't marked off in degrees. However, it did get almost to the red zone. On the flat roadways, the gauge was right near the middle.

It was a very steep hill with about a 700 ft vertical rise. The temperature steadily increased and I was sweating it out until I got to the top, got moving faster, and the temp went down.

I pulling a 24' saturn, about 5000 lb with a 87 F150, 88,000 miles, 5.0L V8, 3.55 rear axle ratio. I don't think it has the towing package, I added the plug and wiring to tow myself.

I realize this may not be the ideal towing vehicle, but I inherited it, so the price was right for my entry into travel trailer camping.

What can I do for some more peace of mind while towing uphills? Trans cooler? Better capacity radiator?

I did some web and ebay searches for "supercooling radiator", but found very little.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or info,

Keith

[Steve Collins]

Keith,

Two things you can do right away that may have a big effect on your overheating.

First, get the radiator properly flushed and refill it with new coolant. The truck is old enough that there maybe some "gunk" built up in there that is blocking proper coolant circulation. And check the radiator itself for obstructions and bent fins. You would be amazed at how much damage bugs can do to a radiator over the years as they hit the fins. And their little carcasses tend to work their way back into the fins and slowly block things up. You could easily have your cooling ability reduced by 25% or more just from radiator issues.

Second, you can add an aftermarket transmission cooler for less than $100 if you install it yourself. Normal transmission cooling is through a portion of the vehicle's regular radiator which actually cools both the engine and the transmission. By adding the tranny cooler, you are significantly lightening the cooling load on the radiator by shifting it over to the tranny cooler.

Given the age of your truck, you may also have other problems affecting engine temp that would not show up if it were not for the extra load of towing. You may want to look into this if the radiator tune-up and tranny cooler don't significantly help. A very small head gasket leak may not show up under normal driving, but adding the weight of the TT could magnify the problem enough to cause concern.

I would suggest you take care of the above items before considering a larger capacity radiator. It would be best to see how much improvement come from them before investing in a bigger radiator.

Just one other bit of info for you. The 3.55 gears are not the best for towing. Generally the engine and tranny have to work harder when accelerating or climbing hills. My previous TV was a '98 Dodge Ram with the 5.2L V8 and 3.53 gears. Big hills in the Adirondacks and in central PA were a real challenge for the truck. I watched the temp gauge go up many degrees while climbing hills. I realize that you can't readily swap out the gears, but you can at least understand the situation better. Many folks tow well with 3.55 or 3.73 gears because of things like tranny coolers and maintenance.

[JohnB]

Hi Keith

I second Steve’s recommendation. The radiator can be filled and if you have an automatic an extra auxiliary trans cooler is a must towing a TT.

An 87 with 88K miles, WOW, cool.

An 87, h’mm just asking, is it an automatic or a stick? We could be way off if this is a stick. I had a 1980 F100, 4 speed stick with overdrive. I lost track of when they went to auto transmission.

Are you towing in 3rd gear or overdrive? 3rd gear will help it not hunt so much if it is an automatic not creating the heat before you get to the hill. The hunting makes a lot of heat while towing.

Speed, what speed are your towing? 55 – 60MPH?

What gear are you in when she gets hot?

Hope this helps

John

[kkeduda]

My 87 F150 has an automatic transmission, withOUT overdrive. Traveling about 55mph on the flat road is fine. On the steep uphill is when it started heating up. On the uphills I didn't want to put the accelerator all the way to the floor, so I slowed down considerably due to the hill and automatically downshifted. The temp started climbing and neared the red part of the gauge. Then my temp starting going up as my 5 year old started asking why can't we go faster? are we there yet? How much longer?

I'm really not exactly sure how to drive properly up bigger hills. Gather some speed initally? Stay in D and let the trans automatically shift down, or should I shift to 2 or 1? Should I try to go faster up hills so there is more air flowing?

I'm planning on flushing and refilling the radiator, and installing a trans cooler. Both of those items seem pretty easy to do?!?! My mechanic already changed the trans fluid when I had him look over the truck. Any specific product on installation suggestions are still welcome.

[Steve Collins]

Keith,

The tranny coolers I installed on my vehicles in years gone by were pretty simple. The kit consisted of a small radiator (maybe a square foot or less), some tubing and clamps, a brass fitting or two, some hardware and a couple of pieces of universal bracket material.

Basically, all I did was disconnect one of the tranny lines that goes into the regular radiator and connect the cooler in line to that and figure out how to hang it in front of the regular radiator. It came with instructions that were very easy to follow. Total time to install was maybe an hour including getting the grille out of the way and back in place. Of course back then, grilles were simple things that came out by removing just a few screws.

Here is a link to one I found online: http://broncograveyard.com/bronco/i-11158_froogle.htm
$67 bucks is pretty reasonable.

I found some pics of an installed tranny cooler in a F-150 over on the f150online.com site. http://www.f150online.com/forums/par...on-cooler.html

Your local auto parts store may well have one in stock for around that price.

[kkeduda]

Here's my progress (and questions) on my overheating problem:

1. I flushed and changed the radiator fluid. It was 22 years old! Also, I found some chunks or crystals that had formed in the overflow tank that had completely blocked the overflow tube.

When I drained it, I only got about 2 gallons out when the listed capacity is over 3 gallons???? Even when I reflushed it with water the same amount came out. I drained the radiator and the lower hose too. What's up with the difference?

2. I purchased a transmission cooler to aid in overall cooling, but I have a couple of questions about its installation that I can't figure out from the directions:

Do I want to install the cooler in series with the radiator? The directions tell me to have the output from the transmission go to the radiator, then to the cooler, then back to the transmission? Isn't the radiator still doing the cooling then?

I was worried about disconnecting the trans fluid lines. Will I leak fluid all over as I'm making the connections?

Thanks for the assistance

Keith

[Steve Collins]

Originally Posted by kkeduda

Here's my progress (and questions) on my overheating problem:

1. I flushed and changed the radiator fluid. It was 22 years old! Also, I found some chunks or crystals that had formed in the overflow tank that had completely blocked the overflow tube.

That is a very good thing. Cleaning out that line between the reservoir and the radiator helps as the radiator can now pull in or push out fluid when it needs it.

Originally Posted by kkeduda

When I drained it, I only got about 2 gallons out when the listed capacity is over 3 gallons???? Even when I reflushed it with water the same amount came out. I drained the radiator and the lower hose too. What's up with the difference?

I am not sure about this. Every time I ever flushed a radiator, I hooked up a garden hose and let the water run for several minutes so I am certain I moved way more than 3 gallons through the system. I guess it is possible that simply draining the system via the drain point on the radiator doesn't remove all the fluid. That may be a vehicle specific thing. If you pour exactly 3 gallons in and then open the drain, you should get 3 gallons out. If there is extra fluid in there, you're obviously not getting quite the same 3 gallons out as some of it remains behind.

Originally Posted by kkeduda

2. I purchased a transmission cooler to aid in overall cooling, but I have a couple of questions about its installation that I can't figure out from the directions:

Do I want to install the cooler in series with the radiator? The directions tell me to have the output from the transmission go to the radiator, then to the cooler, then back to the transmission? Isn't the radiator still doing the cooling then?

Follow the manufacturer's instructions on this. It has been a long time since I did one, but I seem to recall that if you had the tranny cooler ahead of the radiator, you'd then be reheating the fluid after it was already cooled some by the tranny cooler. Having the cooler after the radiator means you'd be sending the coolest possible fluid direct back to the tranny.

Originally Posted by kkeduda

I was worried about disconnecting the trans fluid lines. Will I leak fluid all over as I'm making the connections?

If memory serves, you are disconnecting only the upper fitting. If that is the case, there won't be much if any fluid to leak out since it is all below the level of the fitting in the system. And, that is very small tubing so capillary action works in your favor. Keep a rag under the work area, and you should be fine.

[Honda03842]

Though I don't have a Ford Tow vehicle, I do have a Ford based Motorhome. When I go up hills, I watch the gauge, actually I have an arrow on the front of my gauge to mark the normal operating point.

Do you have a separate gauge for your transmission fluid and water temperature? The fastest way to kill a transmission is to burn the fluid, Heated fluid causes an increase in transmission heating, it feeds on itself. I check mine for color regularly. Actually on motorhomes Ford recommends flushing the transmission fluid every 25,000 miles.

I don't speed but do try to note when I'm coming to a hill and do go about 5 mph faster though it hardly matters because the hills that get you are usually long pulls.

Ideally the addtional cooler should block as little of your existing radiator as possible nor should it be blocked by your radiator. Techically it should not matter too much what the order of the series connection is.

I don't worry about the water temperature too much unless it gets near the top of the temp range, I do worry about transmission fluid temperature.

We do a lot of Rocky Mountain driving where there are really long hills. Therefore, I have a secondary solution that I use when I see the temp climbing. I have rerouted the output of my windshield washer to a hose that sprays the front of the radiators with water. I've added a switch on the dash that I just flip on for a few seconds when I see the temp climbing. This has always kept the temp within bounds on the hottest day,

As a side note, it's a rare day that I have to refill the washer reservoir.

As to when will we get there daddy, it doesn't matter how fast you go, only age fixes that.

Norm Milliard
1997 Bounder 32H, 17,000 lbs pulling a 4000 lb Honda
1982 Sunline 15.5 SB with dry shower installation under way
2004 Honda CRV

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by kkeduda

Here's my progress (and questions) on my overheating problem:

2. I purchased a transmission cooler to aid in overall cooling, but I have a couple of questions about its installation that I can't figure out from the directions:

Do I want to install the cooler in series with the radiator? The directions tell me to have the output from the transmission go to the radiator, then to the cooler, then back to the transmission? Isn't the radiator still doing the cooling then?

I was worried about disconnecting the trans fluid lines. Will I leak fluid all over as I'm making the connections?

Thanks for the assistance

Keith

Keith,

This much I know for sure, on my 2003 Suburban (GM) the torque converter out put line went to the main radiator “first”. Then out of the radiator it went to the aux cooler then back to the tranny.

The engine fan and main radiator is doing a lot to cool that hot fluid just out for the torque converter. My belief, is the main radiator with the fan drawing air thru it is more efficient in removing that high heat out of the fluid then the little aux cooler. The aux cooler which generally ends up out in front of the main radiator I “believe” has less sq inches of area so it is only doing a last cooling step once the high heated fluid comes down. This is “belief” not fact based on backed up data.

I have not crawled under my Ford yet.

The oil gusher you are worried about, again on my GM it was almost nothing when I unhooked the TC output line to install a temp sensor. The pump in the transmission is shut off so there is no pressure and I lost about 3 teaspons, again GM.

Oh and heads up, 22 years old coolant. Keep and eye on the water pump seal. Once you start removing crud from the system it seems that more opportunities start to surface.

The capacity, well a few thoughts. If that 3 gallon is accurate, the drain out does not drain everything, or at least never has for me. There are low dip in the hoses and some stuck in the block. Again this may be brand/model specific.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

John

[BobNKaren]

All of the advice is good. I would pursue the radiator cleaning with what you found. One easy thing that did not crop up is manually dropping back a gear to bring the engine revs up and need less throttle. When we pulled Wolf creek pass in Colorado the transmission kept shifting between 3rd and 3rd torque converter lock up. I dropped the transmission back to 2nd gear. The temp never budged.