Newbie towing questions

[markbrit]

New owner of a 1997 Solaris 2653, this forum is great!

I have read much about weight distributing hitches and sway control. But an experienced opinion is appreciated.

I am driving a 2000 dodge 2500 long bed truck, wheelbase is 135", engine is gas v8 360. Towing capacity of paper looks good.

My questions begin here

This is what I got with the trailer for hitch setup. Items A, B & C are paired items but I am not sure what they are. I imagine a weight distributing hitch. Anybody have anything similiar? Is this a dated setup?

[JohnB]

Hi Markbrit

Welcome to Sunline club. I saw your Coach all cleaned up. WOW. It’s amazing all the decals look so good.

Now to your hitch. Wow, you have one of the top end hitches they make. Or shall I say parts of it. Your hitch ranks up there with the Hensley as far as superior anti sway control. I saw the hitch head tilt adjustment and said that has to be. It is.

You have parts of a Pull-Rite hitch. http://www.pullrite.com/

You have the part that goes on the TT. Or most of it. The chain snap ups do not show in your pics they may still be on the TT.

Yes, we can just barley see them.


However you are missing 1 very large part. The physical swinging hitch on the truck. The Pull-rite uses a concept of moving the pivot point of the TT to being just behind the rear axle under your truck. They put on a special swinging receiver under the truck and that hitch shank you have sticks into it.

It looks like this and they are custom to each brand/model of truck. Now some may fit other brands but they are made TV model specific.


Here is a manual on it. On page 2 they have a great exploded view of all the parts. You can see what you have and what you are missing.

http://www.pullrite.com/pdfs/PullRiteOwnerManual.pdf

That total hitch new, sells for approx $2,700 to $3,000.

OK so now what? Well you have a few options.

Option 1:
Call Pull-Rite and explain what you have and if they will sell just the receiver part that will fit your model truck. Also ask if your spare tire will have to be moved to an alternate location and if the exhaust pipe has to be modified. They do list PN to match your truck.

From the age of it, I do believe it is a 1,000# tongue weight, 10,000# pull rated hitch that you have.

Option 2:
Unfortunately the Pull rite is so special not much of it’s parts work with any other brand hitch. So option 2 is to buy an entire new WD hitch. Seeing the camper you have I will recommend 2 brands that incorporate WD and anti- sway in the same hitch and are very effective as part of a trailer anti sway program.

The Reese HP WD Trunnion bar hitch and HP DC.
http://www.reeseprod.com/

It would look similar to this on your TT.




And the other brand they call the Equal-I-zer. There are SOC members here that have them on their Sunlines. I know HenryJ has one on his T2499. Just make sure it is that brand as a lot of hitches are nick named equalizer hitches.

http://www.equalizerhitch.com/

Cost of both are in the ~ $500 to $600 dollar range. Both are a very good hitch and both have pros and cons. Both are effective as part of a total anti-sway towing solution for your size camper.

I looked up you 99 2653. Boy Sunline made nice campers. That is a front kitchen model. http://www.sunlineclub.com/docs/97.pdf Did I get that right?

7,000 # GVWR rated TT. 4,465# dry weight with a 765# dry tongue.

That tongue weights is 17.1% of the GVW. WOW. Which means it can be a heavy front loading camper. You have a 3/4 ton truck which is good as it will need it with that floor plan. Depending on how you load it , it could go over 1,000# in loaded tongue weight. It could reach 1,100 pending where the fresh water tank is and if you will haul fresh water to camp.

The brochure shows storage under the rear bed. Is there any cargo hole door outside where you can load under the bed with heavy type camp “stuff”? If so that will help offset the heavy front kitchen.

Is there a weigth sticker in one of the cabinets? Sunline was good about weighing each camper when it left the factory.

The Pull –Rite is hands down an excellent hitch. It is superior to both the Reese and Equal-I-izer in eliminating sway as it uses a totally different hitching concept. It does however have the down side of being special to your truck and if you use your truck for normal towing, in non WD mode it is not rated very high for tongue weight. However your receiver now may only be rated for 500# non WD towing anyway.

This is probably more then you thought when you asked, so I’ll let this much settle in and ask away for round 2.

Good luck and great looking camper.

John

[Sunline Fan]

I have zero experience with PullRite's, but I do recognize part C in your picture. If it really is part of the PullRite, then ignore this, but I know it as a bracket for a rear bumper clothesline.



http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...thesline/30952.

The clothesline is removable, and those are the brackets that mount to the bumper that it attaches to.

If you find inside the trailer two ~3' aluminum square tubes with rope pieces attached between them, that's the other part.

Jon

P.S. Sorry for the big pic, it's Camping World's fault...

[markbrit]

Gents,

Thank you as your feedback is terrific.

I feel like I am on a treasure hunt and will continue in daylight in the morning.

It does appear that is a Pullrite setup, unfortunatly I do not have the part for the truck.

Also it does look like part 3 is a clothesline hanger.

Will poke around and see what else I have in the trailer.

John also good points on the tongue weight. Let me gather my thoughts and reply later.

thanks,
Mark

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Sunline Fan

I have zero experience with PullRite's, but I do recognize part C in your picture. If it really is part of the PullRite, then ignore this, but I know it as a bracket for a rear bumper clothesline.

If you find inside the trailer two ~3' aluminum square tubes with rope pieces attached between them, that's the other part.

Jon

Jon, LOL!!!!!

I'm glad you found the mystery piece with the U bolt as I was really scratching my head as it sure did not look like to fit the hitch.... of any brand…

John

We truley have a combined team here on SOC. What one person does not know, someone else I'm sure does.

[markbrit]

Well here is what I found out today.

First off I looked at where the water tanks are:

Fresh water is underneath the rear bed

Black and gray water tanks are line up with the axles of the trailer.

John you were right on with your advice. I called Pullrite and showed them the pictures. I can buy the new vechicle hitch for $1.5k
Since I already have the other components I can use them.

Pullrite also gave me the phone number of some past customers that were selling thier setups. I called and talked to everybody and they said it is another world using a pullrite. I can get a used complete setup for around $1k including shipping.

Option #2 with a Reese sounds good but boy I am a bit scared of sway when I think of a semi blowing past me...thoughts? Here is the current hitch on the bottom of my truck.


So is the tongue weight is 765 dry, so I need to keep the front very light right? Does tongue weight get affected by what I pack in the pickup bed?

Have I said thank you for the great feeback...thanks!

[Steve Collins]

Mark,

Let me offer you some real world experience about towing with a Reese WD hitch system and a very similar truck.

My trailer is a '99 T-2453 which is 4150# dry, 5,500# GVWR, and 535# tongue weight. It is 24' 11" long, and the height and width are identical to your 2653. Tanks are: fresh water in the nose, black water in the rear, and gray is over the axles. I always travel out from home with full propane tanks, and we tuck a lot of "stuff" in the nose of the TT between the couch and swivel rocker.

My first TV was a '98 Dodge Ram 1500 King Cab, short bed, 2WD with the 5.2 V8. It was rated to tow up to a 7,800# trailer and the CGWR was OK for the Sunline. With the extended cab, it was about the same wheelbase as a standard cab, long bed. (Remember that longer is better in this instance.) The receiver on the truck is identical to yours.

When we bought it, I was not knowledgeable about sway control systems, but was comfortable with WD. The dealer sold us a Reese WD with the friction sway control. Not really what I should gotten, but it worked out OK.

The 5.2 engine turned out to the limiting factor. It just never had enough power in the Adirondack mountains (or on any good-sized hills.) I was always the guy poking along in the right hand lane, even on interstates. Best driving speed was right around 60 mph. At 55 outside the mountains, I rarely had speed issues, although it still bogged down on uphills if I couldn't maintain highway speed approaching the hill.

As for sway, I never encountered a real or potential sway situation in 8 years of hauling the Sunline all over the northeast US. BUT on the interstates, the big semis blowing by me at 75+ mph always produced the "pull me in, push me out" feeling. It wasn't much movement, but I could feel it. The less the speed differential, the less the feeling. I never felt that that effect might have progressed into real sway. If I didn't keep a sharp eye on the rear view mirror, my first notice that a semi was passing me was the "pull me in" sensation.

On more than one occasion, I forgot to tighten up the friction sway control, and it didn't seem to make any difference.

But I should have had the Dual Cam system.

Now, my current TV is an '02 Dodge Ram 3500 diesel dually. We bought it with an eye to stepping up to a much bigger TT or a fiver. It is the extended cab, long bed version. Its rated to pull up to a 12,400# trailer but it has exactly the same receiver ratings as yours. We nicknamed it "Beast". We still have the 2453 since the economic downturn happened right when our long range plan said we should have traded for a bigger trailer.

Sway is just plain not an issue with this TV. Neither power nor speed deficincies exist with the truck. It has the weight and wheelbase to overcome the "pull me in, push me out" feeling completely. I can keep up with traffic on an interstate (70+ mph), but choose to keep the speeds down around 60-65. I pass slow traffic on uphill grades.

As I said earlier, wheelbase matters when it comes to sway. Both TV and TT weight matter, too. Sway is essentially the tail wagging the dog. The bigger the dog, the less the tail can affect the dog.

So, if budget is an issue, I think that you will be well served by the Reese WD with the HP DC sway control or an equivalent from one of the other major brand hitch manufaturers. If you go that route, you will need the 1,000# spring bars.

If you watch Craigslist in your area, there are usually full WD hitch systems for sale there and many at very favorable prices. Buying new is not essential as these systems typically don't deteriorate very much over time. (One notable exception is the guy that never takes the shank/head off the TV year round, particularly in the northeast where salt is the primary snow/ice control method. So check carefully for pitting under that fresh paint job.) If you look for used, make sure all the pieces are included if possible. Sometimes, sellers forget that the hook-ups or other parts that sit on the A-frame are part of the WD system and should be sold with the rest of it. If you decide to look for a used system, point us at the ad before you buy, and we can tell you if its all there or what is missing, etc.

Your Pullrite pieces have value, too. You can put them up on Craigslist. Or, since Pullrite seems to keep lists of folks looking for used gear, they may be able to connect you with a buyer, too.

Very, very few of us are towing with Pullrites or Hensleys. The vast majority are using Reese (or equivalent) WD, and most with bigger TT's have the HP DC system. We collectively don't spend any time in here talking about issues with 18-wheelers passing us so I can only surmise that none of us are having those problems.

One other factor... Sunline seems to have built these trailers right when it comes to sway. We've speculated on this here in the forums before, and the best guess is that the positioning of the axles in relation to the a-frame and hitch ball really makes a difference. With a reasonable choice of TV and hitch system, sway seems to be a minor concern for Sunlines.

As JohnB will tell you, the WD with HP DC system is very, very adequate to the task of controlling sway and providing a safe towing situation. And you are starting in the right ball park with your Dodge Ram 2500.

[markbrit]

Thank you everybody for taking the time to talk me down off the edge

Steve your feedback provides a great perspective.

The sway factor alarms me, lets face it I have my most prized possessions riding along with me and do not want to put anyone in danger. I imagine I will get more comfortable with experience.

Right now here are my thoughts.

I have a call into the previous owner and may be able to get the pullrite chassis off his van. If so I can at least try to sell the setup and recoup some $$ for the new setup I purchase.

I did talk with some pullrite owners that have used setups but it would be roughly $800 with shipping included. Also I would have to modify my exhaust.

I will investigate the reese options and see what is available locally. Will share my findings soon.

[markbrit]

Bot those Equal-I-zer hitches sure look nice and easy to work with. Anybody have any feedback on those?

[kanyonkitty]

Hi Mark,

First, welcome to the group and wonderful pleasure of owning a Sunline.

I am, I "think" currently the only solo female Sunline owner on this site. I have been thru about 13 Sunlines, 2 of which were the 2653 (one a '93 & one a '97) I almost bought a brand new one in '05 when I opted for the 2499.

I towed at the time with a '95 1500 chevy longbed. I don't recall the exact terminology, but it was a heavy duty truck for only being 1/2 ton.

I used the Reese dual cam w/ sway control, and never had the push/pull from the semis'. Now with my '05 2499, I have 1175#'s of tongue weight so I use the Reese dual cam HP and I have overkill with my '05 F-350, but it looks nice together

The 2653 has a great layout, and should tow just fine with a reese dual cam setup.

Kitty

[MACK C-85]

I tow an '07 276SR (6085lbs. Dry, 8600lbs. gross, 750lb dry hitch) with a Dodge 2500 CTD Ext. Cab Short Bed using the Equilizer hitch. It is very easy to use and I have no issues with sway. It does take a little getting used to the creaks and groans it makes in turns, but like I said, it works very well.

Very easy hookup (especially if you have an electric jack), attach trailer hitch to ball, jack truck/trailer up to take off the weight, swing bars into L brackets on the trailer, attach bars with a hook and pin, lower the rig, and go.

[markbrit]

Wow I am amazed at the brand loyalty you guys have, sounds like I made the right choice in a Sunline.

Thabks for the feedback I am leaning towards the equalizer hitch. Will continue my research.

[JohnB]

Mark

I have not forgotten you... Sorry. I'll get back to you here shortly. You have good info from others I see already.

Both the Reese and the Equal-I-izer are very good. Each is very close to the same effectiveness. Each has a pro's and a con's. Can't go wrong with either, but before you buy, the one quick heads up on the Equal-I-izer. It is a weight class specific hitch. The 1,000# hitch can not ever be upgraded. It is made as a 1,000# hitch, just like the other weigth ranges. The Reese if you go trunion bar, it has 600, 800, 1200,1500 and 1700# WD bars that all interchange. The Reese round bar goes 800, 1000#, 1,200# With the same hitch head, dual cam and snap ups.

The only down side is your receiver is 1,000# rated. Your truck can more then likely handle more tongue weight, like a 1,200# tongue, but your Receiver can't.

In a nut shell, I have a "feeling" you might boarder line on a 1,000 to 1,100# tongue weight, maybe 1,150#. And if you carry much bed weight aft of the axle, that too should dial into the hitch sizing. So a 1,050# tongue with 150# of fire wood just behind the tail gate should have a 1,200# WD hitch and reciever to gop with it.

You have one of the gray area TT tongue and layouts. It might and it might not cross over the 1,000# mark..

In the ideal world, load the camper, weigh the tongue and then go buy a hitch. That does not always work and we have to make educated guesses, but weighing it is the most fool proof.

You can however upgrade the Dodge Receiver with an aftermarket one and get all the rating you need or your truck can handle. Reese, Drawtite, Putnam, Curt are some names of good after market receivers. Here is my 1st hit. Have to dig some more research and better price and the exact right one for your truck as it does not say 2000, Dodge 2500

It is rated 1,400# tongue weight in WD mode on 2” shank.

http://www.etrailer.com/pc-H~41923.h...icleid=2000764

http://www.etrailer.com/instructions.aspx?pn=41923

http://www.putnamhitch.com/products_receivers.html

But if you do upgrade, it needs to have at least a 1,200# Weight distributing tongue weight rating. Some come with 1,400# and still a 2" shank. It will be at least a Class IV receiver and some like Putnam declare a class V with a 1,500# to 1700# WD rating on a 2" shank for $20 more then a 1,200# one.

Ideally the WD springs are not larger then the receiver ratings. Receiver can be the same bar ratings or larger. Which comes back to your gray area which hitch size do I get?

Does Mark:

Manage only to a 1,000# tongue weight and not a lot of bed weight or upgrade the receiver and get a 1,200# hitch which works OK even on a 1,100# tongue plus bed weight? You are in that gray zone.

More later

John

[markbrit]

Thanks John for info. Yes I thought about the hitch and tongue weight too. In real world use, I agree it will be topping out to the max.

I plan to bring the camper in for brake check and get the bearings done so I will ask them to weigh the tongue weight.

I may have found a used equalizer hitch with a 1200 WD in the area, just need to see what the pricing is. I do not plan to do anything until I visit the Reese dealer on Saturday. Then will review cost options to make up my mind.

I did make a decision on tire replacement. Will be getting 4 new Towmaster ST205/75/15 radial tires next week.

Suggestions for the Brake Controller? I thought this was good reading.

http://www.etrailer.com/faq_brakecontroller.aspx

[Steve Collins]

Originally Posted by markbrit

I did make a decision on tire replacement. Will be getting 4 new Towmaster ST205/75/15 radial tires next week.

Suggestions for the Brake Controller?

If your TT is rated to have B load range tires, consider stepping up to C's. If it is rated for C's, think about stepping up to D's. There is a lot of peace of mind in the extra capacity of the tires.

You can not go wrong with either the Prodigy or the newer P3, both from Tekonsha. I bought my Prodigy a year and a half ago brand new in the box from an RV dealer via an eBay sale for $113 which included the Dodge specific adapter harness. The P3 was over $200 at the time. The P3's are now selling in the $110 range on eBay, and there are some huge deals on new Prodigy's up there.

[markbrit]

Steve,

I will ask about the D rated tires, I matched the C load range. Will the tire width change? Instead of 205 will they go to 225?

I like those prodigy brake setups. Did you do the wiring yourself or did you get it installed?

[Steve Collins]

Originally Posted by markbrit

Steve,

I will ask about the D rated tires, I matched the C load range. Will the tire width change? Instead of 205 will they go to 225?

I like those prodigy brake setups. Did you do the wiring yourself or did you get it installed?

I don't believe the tire size or shape changes if you go to a heavier load rating for the same size tires.

My truck came with the factory tow package which includes a plug for the brake controller wiring. All I did was buy the right adapter for the Dodge plug to the Prodigy plug. It was "plug and play."

The Prodigy and the P3 both come with a generic wiring cable and full instructions about tapping into the appropriate wiring.

If your truck doesn't have the 7-way wiring already in place, you'll have to run #10 stranded, jacketed 2 conductor wire from the brake controller to the rear of the truck and out to the battery.

The turn signal/marker light wiring is dealt with by purchasing a vehicle specific harness that plugs in the the truck harness back by the taillights and goes down to the area of the trailer hitch.

If your truck already has a receiver, it is likely that you have the factory tow package in which case you can ignore all my babble about adding wiring and just get the right adapter for the Prodigy or P3 (it's actually the same adapter for either.)

That said, the toughest part of the job will then be finding the Dodge connector. They are usually tucked up behind the steering column under the dash. My truck had been used as a tow vehicle by the first owner so the plug was nicely hanging down where I could spot it.

[markbrit]

Steve, weird request but can you show me a photo of the plug? Is there anything on the web? I would try the install myself since I already have a 7 wire connector at the back of the truck.

Am I looking for an empty molex connector?

[Steve Collins]

Originally Posted by markbrit

Steve, weird request but can you show me a photo of the plug? Is there anything on the web? I would try the install myself since I already have a 7 wire connector at the back of the truck.

Am I looking for an empty molex connector?

Yes, it is an empty connector - four conductor - mates up with the white end of this adapter:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Prodi...Q5fAccessories

[markbrit]

Thank you Steve, your knowledge and patience is great!

Will crawl under the steering wheel tommorow to look for it.