Let's do the math!

[awellis3]

Originally Posted by bunjin

Oh. John, you may be able to answer this question. What if Teach were to add a front hitch. Would he have a tighter turn radius?

It wouldn't be practical for this; however, I have thought about a front hitch to make putting the pop up next to my garage easier.

Teach

[JohnB]

[QUOTE=bunjin;118624 What if Teach were to add a front hitch. Would he have a tighter turn radius? I would think so. I plan on adding one to my Tundra double cab to be able to maneuver my trailer into my driveway.

I have a small driveway, a narrow gate and a stone wall to work around even though I have a small trailer.[/QUOTE]

The front receiver offers good maneuverability. I had one on the front of my K2500 Suburban, however to haul bikes.

A few things to work through with them if you plan on moving the TT with it.

Width of the camper to the width of the truck? Before buying drive up close to the ball coupler and make sure you can see around it. Small truck and big camper may create challenges.

Tongue weight, most of the front receiver are rated at 500# load carrying.

For you smaller camper this might be an option as your have lighter TW’s, just check if you can see around the sides. I know I cannot use my tractor to move mine as I cannot see around it.

For Teach, the challenges are a little more. I know he is using a WD hitch and do not know if the front of his truck can hold the TW with no WD hitch and most likely be over the receiver rating.

I myself have never used one for moving a camper, however heard from those that have and where it fits, it has worked well moving the camper around at home in the yard.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by awellis3

Me, too. I was betting you had figured out a formula I could plug some values into and, Voila! Alas, no magic bullet.
Also, I had no idea about how tandem wheels and their suspensions flex in a tight turn until I stood by as my trailer was moved by the dealership's tractor into a service bay. Wow! Someone needs to give an owner a heads up on what he is about to see.

This has been fun, thanks,
Teach

Teach,

No, sorry no magic formula on this one. You are the first to even ask on SOC and well, as you saw, I used the lawn method to figure out the true truning radius.

Tandem wheels doing all kinds of strange looking things going around a turn, for sure. They "seem" to even look worse backing up. It is like they are trying to steer... even with a level of caster no less...

A K & E tape, OK there is some history to that one. Many of my drafting tools where K & E. Had to look up if they are still even in bussiness, seems they may have been bought out in 1987

Keuffel and Esser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And no, I do not have my slide rule any more... A Texas Instrument 5TI with the red LEDs was the in thing back then. Talk about memory lane...

[awellis3]

Originally Posted by JohnB

A K & E tape, OK there is some history to that one.

It belonged to my father. He was a civil engineer (VMI '39). I have his K&E drafting tools, slide rule, engineering rules as well as the aforementioned tape measure. It comes in handy measuring rig lengths.

Teach

[bunjin]

John,

Thanks for the reply. I have tucked the lil guy into its Cubicle for the winter.....maybe. Being able to see around is a good point.

The camper is only 7' wide and the tongue weight is under 200 lbs.

The one thing I have is a Swift Hitch portable wireless camera system to help with blind spots behind the unit while trying to miss the gate, house and small stone wall. Did I mention the tree?!!

At this time I maneuver the trailer with a manual tongue dolly. I can pull the camper out of the resting space and turn it in a circle in the back of driveway, however, I need my son's help to push it up the slight grade to store it where I prefer.

The front hitch would be handy for me to push trailer (I think) up driveway from street also. At this time I pull into driveway, thru gate and remove a course off my two course dry stonewall. This is a corner that the truck front wheel needs to give me just the turn to have camper clear the gate post and corner of house. This leaves the truck well into the back yard. Trailer gets unhitched and pull up along side back of house. Truck gets moved back down driveway. Son gets phone call. Trailer gets pushed back and turned parallel to fence.

The above is part of the reason/s I elected for the T-1550. The 8' ht. x 7' wide helps clear the crouch tree branch on side of driveway just across from house.

Got to love the issues of keeping a trailer at home!!!

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by bunjin

Got to love the issues of keeping a trailer at home!!!

Yep!! But I love the "issues" better then having to store it off site in a storage lot. We have been fortunate to always have the camper at the house. It is just so convenient.

That said, I too have some turn around challenges at our current place. A number of years ago in the spring time I back up on the lawn when it was too soft. Mistake no 1. Then after the camper was 5 inches deep into the lawn, I put the K2500 Suburban in 4 wheel lo. That was mistake no 2. It when from 0 to 6” deep in less than 10 seconds….

Nothing like burring both the camper and truck in the front yard… Went and got the tractor and chain and pulled them both out. Then had to clean up the mess. Thus the extra planning on the driveway turn around at the new place… live and learn!

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by awellis3

It belonged to my father. He was a civil engineer (VMI '39). I have his K&E drafting tools, slide rule, engineering rules as well as the aforementioned tape measure. It comes in handy measuring rig lengths.

Teach

Good tools last a lifetime and in some cases more then one.

I still have some of my Dad's and Grand Dad's tools. You just can't beat good tools.

[OhhWell]

How about a large sheet of graph paper and a scaled down drawing. Then make to-scale cutouts of your truck and trailer. figure out the max angle of pivot and see if it works?

[Jon Isaacs]

Originally Posted by OhhWell

How about a large sheet of graph paper and a scaled down drawing. Then make to-scale cutouts of your truck and trailer. figure out the max angle of pivot and see if it works?

That was my thought as well. It also seems that Google Maps might be useful, the shape of the turns should be visible and maybe even the entire road could simply be scaled to the proper size that would allow the use of cut outs.

Importing the Google Maps image of the difficult spots to a 2D Cad program like Draftsight might be useful too.

I am interested in seeing the difficulty of this task. A Google Maps link might allow those reading this to see just how torturous this road is..

Just some ideas

Jon

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Jon Isaacs

Importing the Google Maps image of the difficult spots to a 2D Cad program like Draftsight might be useful too.

I am interested in seeing the difficulty of this task. A Google Maps link might allow those reading this to see just how torturous this road is..

Hi Jon,

What you are describing in CAD is what I did to create my drive way turn around. What needs to be done first is to create the real world turning radius of your truck and camper. I did this by backing up on my lawn doing a 90 degree turn with the truck off of a gravel driveway with the TT on grass. Then take the tape measure and figure out the inside and outside tracking of the trailer and truck wheels. There is a lot of sliding and squirming going on with tandem axles and the truck turning radius. It all starts with, what is the turning radius for your truck and camper? and it gets shifted a little by grass verses black top but that is a small difference in the big picture of things.

I have done the import of a jpeg into CAD and then scaled it up. As long as the image is looking straight on, the X and Y axis is not that distorted and you can get pretty good use of it. However when I did it, I had a known length of an object in the pic so I know that object was 12 feet etc long so I had reference of what to create the scale up. I suppose to get rough estimate, we have somewhat of known what a road width is as a start. There is some error in this but it is closer than a WAG. Bing use to have a feature you could turn on measuring objects in the image. Can maybe hunt down online map software that still has that.

I use Bing maps with Birds Eye view and compare it to other on line data bases. Bing Maps - Driving Directions, Traffic and Road Conditions

Hit birds eye view in place of roads and it goes into picture mode. When you zoom down close enough it flips into aerial pictures and you can rotate the image. The closer to a more populated area, the better the pics and more recent. Some of the out in the boonies places is just a satellite image way up and you can't get too much detail.

To share with us, zoom to where you want it, click share, (top right of screen) and it creates a link that can be copied and pasted into a post we can see. Here is the intersection of I95 and I195 in the middle of Richmond VA. The rotate feature (top right) looks like a compass and you spin the image to different aerial pics from a direction.
See here Bing Maps - Driving Directions, Traffic and Road Conditions

Then convert the image to a jpeg and import into CAD.

The process I described might be a bit much for someone who has never used CAD. However if Teach can Bing link or Google link us to this campground turn, we might be able to help.

And the paper doll cut out to scale method on a Bing or Google map print out scaled can get one in the ball park. The paper dolls would need be to be in scale to the map. And figure out the max turning angle of the truck with the camper on it so you do not exceed that angle. Then take a test drive on the kitchen table.....

[awellis3]

Find Remington, Va. (near Opal where Rts.29, 15 and 17 meet.)
Newby's Shop Rd. is off Business 29. East on Newbys Shop to the power lines. The turn in question is left onto Thoms Rd. The culvert is hard to see as well as the uphill grade. There's a drop off into the ditch on both sides of the gravel entrance. The right gate post is set into a low bank which continues for about 8 feet before it meets the road's grade. No room to maneuver over there. Inside the gate on the left is a grassy area, part of the power co.'s right-of-way.

'Tis a puzzlement.
Teach

[Jim-Bev-2363]

Is that white box I see a mailbox? That could make it a make-it-or-break-it turn if you have to miss that. Also the uphill turn will throw the TT on the rear axle and therefore make the overall length of the turning unit longer.

My guess, strictly a guess, is you can make that turn. Swing wide and when you can go no more forward then back up to move the rear of the TT to the right and then pull forward after the unit is more in line with the gate. Coming out and getting straight with the road while missing the gate post could be a different story.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by awellis3

Find Remington, Va. (near Opal where Rts.29, 15 and 17 meet.)
Newby's Shop Rd. is off Business 29. East on Newbys Shop to the power lines. The turn in question is left onto Thoms Rd. The culvert is hard to see as well as the uphill grade. There's a drop off into the ditch on both sides of the gravel entrance. The right gate post is set into a low bank which continues for about 8 feet before it meets the road's grade. No room to maneuver over there. Inside the gate on the left is a grassy area, part of the power co.'s right-of-way.

'Tis a puzzlement.
Teach

OK, fire this link
Bing Maps - Driving Directions, Traffic and Road Conditions

Is it the problem turn from Newbys Shop Road onto Thoms Rd?

Here is a better image off of google
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Remin...ginia&t=h&z=20

Let us know as I can find Newbys Shop Road onto Thoms Rd but it does not seem to line you with what else you are referring to or the image is too old.

Use your mouse and wheel on the mouse to zoom in and out and pan around.

[Poppy & Nana]

Originally Posted by awellis3

Find Remington, Va. (near Opal where Rts.29, 15 and 17 meet.)
Newby's Shop Rd. is off Business 29. East on Newbys Shop to the power lines. The turn in question is left onto Thoms Rd.
'Tis a puzzlement.
Teach

I'm confused with the turn left onto Thoms Rd.....coming from 29 isn' Thoms Rd on the right? Or am I just being a blonde, with grey hair????

[awellis3]

Originally Posted by Poppy & Nana

I'm confused with the turn left onto Thoms Rd.....coming from 29 isn' Thoms Rd on the right? Or am I just being a blonde, with grey hair????

I come N on 29 from Culpeper, exit on Bus.29 to Remington, right onto Newbys Shop Rd. (Rt.673), then left into the camp on Thoms Rd. You can see the pole barn at the end of the grassy field.
Jim, that's no mailbox. That is an attempt to repair the culvert with cement-filled burlap bags. That white area (on Google maps) is where folks drop trailer tires trying to make the turn. And yes, the trip out will be more difficult because of the "goal post" formed by the farm gate.

Teach

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by awellis3

I come N on 29 from Culpeper, exit on Bus.29 to Remington, right onto Newbys Shop Rd. (Rt.673), then left into the camp on Thoms Rd. You can see the pole barn at the end of the grassy field.

Teach

The plot thickens.... Teach, there appears to be qty 2 Thoms Rd's...both heading south, One if a left turn off of Newbys, then a few miles down the road is a right off Newbys to Thoms road

Please confrim.

1. Heading south east on Newbys from bus 29 to the 1st Thoms rd. This section of Thoms is heading "east". And yes there are power lines there.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Remin...ginia&t=h&z=19

2. Heading south east on Newbys from bus 29 to the 2nd Thoms rd. This section of Thoms is heading "west". And yes there are power lines there.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Remin...ginia&t=h&z=18

After your last description, I'm assuming this is Thoms road no 1 heading more east? The 1st Thoms road one would find when when heading down from bus 29

[Poppy & Nana]

Originally Posted by awellis3

I come N on 29 from Culpeper, exit on Bus.29 to Remington, right onto Newbys Shop Rd. (Rt.673), then left into the camp on Thoms Rd. You can see the pole barn at the end of the grassy field.
Jim, that's no mailbox. That is an attempt to repair the culvert with cement-filled burlap bags. That white area (on Google maps) is where folks drop trailer tires trying to make the turn. And yes, the trip out will be more difficult because of the "goal post" formed by the farm gate.

Teach

OK - got it now........

[Gene]

Originally Posted by JohnB

...1. Heading south east on Newbys from bus 29 to the 1st Thoms rd. This section of Thoms is heading "east". And yes there are power lines there.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Remin...ginia&t=h&z=19
...

That is the one I was looking at last night.

I thought it might be "doable" but then I saw Length: 29 ft 8 in for the Rockwood 2604WS.

[hiller64]

One part of the equation you should not ignore is your stabilizing bars and anti- sway bar. Unless you have a Hensley you will end up binding on the weight distribution bars before you get the trailer to 90 degrees. I know this from bitter experience things can and will break. if you can drop bars you can cut a little sharper arc.

Not sure If your Tundra can support the Rockwood with out the weight distribution bars, my 2001 Tundra would not support the 2499 with out bars. Something else to consider.

[hiller64]

Since I just live up the road from Remington, would it be helpful for me to drive down to Remington and get some real world measurements for you?