Sunline RV Forum
Sunline User Photos

Go Back   Sunline Coach Owner's Club > Technical Forums > Towing and Tow Vehicles
Click Here to Login

Join Sunline Club Forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2010, 07:57 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
awellis3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 626
SUN #987
awellis3
I need a recommendation

I just bought a 1995 Solaris T-2653. Being new to towing a TT, I weighed everything. My TV is an '05 Tundra 4X4 with factory towing package (receiver, tranny cooler, wiring for trailer and brakes). Receiver is rated 7000/750.
TV=5245# (wife, I, full gas tank, no cargo)
TT = 5300# (empty but incl. propane)
Actual GCWR = 10,645#
Factory GCWR = 11,600#
I will be towing with a WD hitch using a Prodigy contoller, but I know I'll need to add a sway control.

My question is what style/brand do y'all recommend and will I need two?
Pic of rig can be seen here
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/251...03096700CUXAag

Thanks,
Teach
__________________

__________________
http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/88/171/5/88/75/2165588750103096700MZYWsp_th.jpgWright Ellis and Penny Sedgley
'10 Tundra 4X4
SOB -'14 Rockwood 2604WS (Rocky)
"Life is a cruel teacher. She gives the test first; the lesson then follows."
awellis3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 09:41 AM   #2
Moderator
 
EMD_Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,039
SUN #897
EMD_Driver is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to EMD_Driver Send a message via Yahoo to EMD_Driver
With only 955# left in your TV's GCWR, you had better pack lightly. JohnB and the others will chime in here directly, but I would advise extreme caution trying to tow the 2653 with that TV.


Edit: Just noticed your receiver setup and looked up the factory dry hitch weight. According to the 1995 brochure, the dry/unloaded hitch weight is 675#. Your post said that your receiver is rated for 750# is that with a WD setup, or just tongue weight?

If it's WD capability is 750# you are only 75# away from that dry.


I'm not trying to scare you, just want you to enjoy your Sunline and be safe doing it!
__________________

__________________
Gary
SunlineClub Custom Google Search

2007 Peterson Excel Limited 30RKE
2014 Ford F350XLT SRW Crew Cab, Long bed 6.7PSD

EMD_Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 11:19 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Poppy & Nana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 2,907
SUN #93
Poppy & Nana is an unknown quantity at this point
Being the "woman" of the family I can't discuss weight limits but I can tell you we had a 2499 (much smaller TT) that we towed with a Ford F150 4x4 and it was NOT fun....me the tight wad of the family, actually told my husband to find another truck........and he did! :P Now the ride is enjoyable, no more oooo's and ahhhhs when towing and no more white knuckles!!!

I'm sure some of our resident tow masters will be chiming in as soon as they dig out from the snow!!!

The other thing I notice is your front kitchen...start loading up those cabinets and I think you'll be looking at a real weight problem....

From my learning experiences from this forum....something is definately wrong with the weights!
__________________
Kathy & Leo SUN 093
Central Adirondacks of New York
2013 Rubicon 2900 Toy Hauler
We loved our 2007 T-2499
2010 Ford F-350 4x4 Lariat Super Crew Dually Diesel
Poppy & Nana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 02:22 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
awellis3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 626
SUN #987
awellis3
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver
Your post said that your receiver is rated for 750# is that with a WD setup, or just tongue weight?

If it's WD capability is 750# you are only 75# away from that dry.
That's tongue weight on the ball alone.

Teach
__________________
http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/88/171/5/88/75/2165588750103096700MZYWsp_th.jpgWright Ellis and Penny Sedgley
'10 Tundra 4X4
SOB -'14 Rockwood 2604WS (Rocky)
"Life is a cruel teacher. She gives the test first; the lesson then follows."
awellis3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 04:36 PM   #5
Moderator
 
EMD_Driver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 2,039
SUN #897
EMD_Driver is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to EMD_Driver Send a message via Yahoo to EMD_Driver
Quote:
Originally Posted by awellis3
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver
Your post said that your receiver is rated for 750# is that with a WD setup, or just tongue weight?

If it's WD capability is 750# you are only 75# away from that dry.
That's tongue weight on the ball alone.

Teach

Thanks for the info!

Do you have any idea what it is rated for, with a WD setup?


.
__________________
Gary
SunlineClub Custom Google Search

2007 Peterson Excel Limited 30RKE
2014 Ford F350XLT SRW Crew Cab, Long bed 6.7PSD

EMD_Driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 06:14 PM   #6
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 9,903
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Hi Teach

First off, welcome to Sunline Club!

I looked up your camper, http://www.sunlineclub.com/docs/95.pdf and I see that the T2652 and T2653 had 2 different rear floor plans. And I followed your link to your photo page. Nice looking camper. Congrats!!!! It looks in real good shape from the pics. Sunline had a lot of nice and unique floor plans during that time frame. Every Time I look up an older one I say, gee that great!

I saw your other post about weighing your camper. Good for you!!! That is the only true way to know. The 5,300# empty but with propane seems heavy, but the weight slip tells all however the weight came to be. So that is your starting point.

Just for reference, the catalog weights are truly in the “dry” configuration and less what they considered options at the time the brochure was printed. LP gas and battery weight are for sure not in the catalog weights. And things like spare tire, stabilizer jacks and other things are also options. And do you know if you have a walk on roof? That is a 300# option if they offered it at that time. Sunline Fan might know if it was offered it back then.

If you use the catalog 4,365# for the 53 rear bedroom option, 60# LP, 40# 1 battery, spare tire and stabilizers around 120#, that comes up to 4,477# and if it is the walk on roof at 300# that is 4,777# on just the camper. When you weighed the truck alone, was the hitch in the truck? If not that can add about 120# to what you may have added up to the TT. And even then, 4,777 +120 = 4,897# I have no good explanation of the 5,300 unless that TT had some very unique added option to it that escapes us. And I’m assuming all your water tanks where empty.

Which leads me to your hitch. Since you access to a scale, a good loaded tongue weight would be in order. If you need help in how to get a tongue weight at the tow ball let us know. I’ll type some more.

The front kitchen layout can at times be heavy loaded to the tongue. The dry tongue weight is listed as 675#. Add battery weight and LP gas that can be about around 730 to 750# before you add any camping gear. Since your camper weighs in real heavy to the catalog, best to weigh the tongue as what ever options are on it may drive the tongue weight up above the catalog 675#.

On front kitchen models often times they have rear storage under the bed and some times access from the outside to that cargo hole.. Adding gear in the back helps offset the heavy front kitchen with weight in the cabinets and fridge. For good natural anti sway characteristics you want 13 to 15% of the TT GVW to be tongue weight. Going down into the 10% range on a light suspension truck can be marginal for the TT to track well when an upset comes during towing. Like semi trucks passing at high speeds, cross winds etc.

So the point is, the 1st part of a good anti sway control program is a well balanced TT with good tongue weight. This will help it track well on it’s own. Then we need to start on other mechanical attributes of the TV and WD hitch. Start with your truck tires. The rear tires should be at max cold side wall pressure when towing on the lighter type tires you have. The front need to be at door sticker pressure and up to max cold side wall pressure if the truck does not bounce. If you get a left to right bounce, drop air in 5 psi increments until it stops but for sure not below door sticker.

Next is proper WD hitch setup. The truck receiver plays a role in here as well. The 750/7500# receiver ratings you have sounds like the stock rating I have seen on those series trucks in WD mode. If you have an aftermarket one rated higher in WD mode, please post. Once you get the camper loaded and at least 13% tongue weight you could well be facing a receiver rating problem if you are a lot over 750#. And the other thing to watch for is the rear axle rating. It may only be able to take on not much more then 750#. A rear axle/suspension over it’s ratings can aggravate sway by not being able to hold the truck steady.

You will have to check out your weights and ratings. The rear axle is the one that is hard to fix short of a different TV. Reason I’m point this out is the truck suspension and the receiver are an active part of a good antisway program. Unless you go to a very high end WD hitch, the truck stability must be in place to hold the TT from excess sway.

Now the hitch. You have a 27 foot long TT of considerable weight. I thought I saw you already have a WD hitch. Do you know what kind/size it is? Or can you post some pics and I can figure it out.

Pending the brand of hitch you may be able to add a Reese Dual cam anti sway hitch system to it. Tell us or show us what hitch you have and I can create some links to parts to buy.

Other options changing the entire hitch to a Reese with a Dual cam or a Equal-I-zer brand made by Progress Mfg. You could sell your old hitch and some times there are good used Reese with the correct WD bar ends or Equal-I-zer brands for sale on Creigs list.

Some have used the friction sway bar. They have there place and they help but they are not as good as the 2 I mentioned above. Since you have a light suspension truck to start with, the better antisway system will give better performance.

When you start loading the camper, you are going to have to watch the weights and where they end up in relation to your truck and try and stay at or under the ratings. It is always shocking to see what “stuff” weighs. 20# here, 30# there, 15 # over there…it all adds up.

Hope this helps

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2010, 06:40 PM   #7
Moderator
 
Sunline Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,977
SUN #123
Sunline Fan is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Just for reference, the catalog weights are truly in the “dry” configuration and less what they considered options at the time the brochure was printed. LP gas and battery weight are for sure not in the catalog weights. And things like spare tire, stabilizer jacks and other things are also options. And do you know if you have a walk on roof? That is a 300# option if they offered it at that time. Sunline Fan might know if it was offered it back then.
I don't believe the walk on roof was an option then. Although anything is possible, since I would have never known the aluminum roof was an option in '06 without Kitty having it. I really think that it would be such a rare option that the chances aren't very good that this would have it. I also think that if someone were to get this back then, they probably would have opted for getting a ladder mounted on the back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Some have used the friction sway bar. They have there place and they help but they are not as good as the 2 I mentioned above. Since you have a light suspension truck to start with, the better antisway system will give better performance.
My parents pulled around a '97 2653 for five years and probably 20-30,000 miles with 750# WD bars and a friction sway. I certainly didn't find this a good combo now that I look back. I never actually pulled it, so I can't say how it pulled. I do know that the original vehicle used to pick it up was a '96 Explorer, which turned out to be a horrible TV for that coach, besides the fact it was a V6. We only used it for a partial season before upgrading. At the time, the lease price between an Expedition and a Navigator was not much different, so we then pulled the coach with the Navigator for the rest of the time we had it, with the same hitch. However, the Nav had a (wonderful) rear hydraulic load leveling suspension which leveled the trailer out and probably contributed to a lot of why it seemed to pull so good with marginal WD and sway control.

While I never drove it, whenever going on trips I always rode on the bench in the far back. We had the middle row captains chairs with center console, and I'd put a TV (which I still use today) with a 12V option on that console and watch movies. During all our trips I never remember a situation where it seemed to rock side to side dangerously in the back there. Thinking back, I think there were only a couple rare instances where the TV almost fell forward off the console, due to a harsh stop. Somehow I always managed to catch it.

Amazing to think back at how many hours/miles I have into that TV and how we now have the one built in to the '05 Ex and I personally have used it only once... Amazing how our lives change.

Jon
__________________
2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9467.8 (as of 5/26/19)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
Sunline Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2010, 07:41 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
awellis3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 626
SUN #987
awellis3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnB
Hi Teach

First off, welcome to Sunline Club!
Thanks. This is a great forum

Quote:
And do you know if you have a walk on roof? That is a 300# option if they offered it at that time.
It appears to be a membrane of sorts.

Quote:
I have no good explanation of the 5,300 unless that TT had some very unique added option to it that escapes us. And I’m assuming all your water tanks where empty.
Weighed with full propane tanks, two batteries, A/C, stabilizers, some linens and cookware, no water. The weight is what it is and I'll have to deal with it.

Quote:
Start with your truck tires.
I'm upgrading to 10 ply Michelins.

Quote:
Now the hitch. You have a 27 foot long TT of considerable weight. I thought I saw you already have a WD hitch. Do you know what kind/size it is? Or can you post some pics and I can figure it out.
It appears to be a Draw-tite with trunnions and chains. Trailer is 60 miles away at the moment. I've seen the demo videos on the other hitches you mentioned.

Quote:
Some have used the friction sway bar. They have there place and they help but they are not as good as the 2 I mentioned above. Since you have a light suspension truck to start with, the better antisway system will give better performance.
Hope this helps

John
Thanks for all your advice. I have a well maintained truck I love to drive. My wife thinks it's more comfy to travel in than is her Avalon. It's paid for.
It tows our pop up (no brakes) into remote boonies without a problem.
A new TV is not in the budget (retired school teacher, am I).
Soooo .... I will do all I am able to make the Tundra work. (And I don't mind driving 55 mph.)
I guess I'll pop for a new hitch with built-in sway control instead of the add-on friction bar. (I'm a gear head and the supplied hitch is all beat-up and rusty looking anyway.)
We got the trailer for four grand so that gives me some "mental equity" to spend a few dollars more on tires and hitch.

I'll be back with more questions, for sure,
Teach
__________________
http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/88/171/5/88/75/2165588750103096700MZYWsp_th.jpgWright Ellis and Penny Sedgley
'10 Tundra 4X4
SOB -'14 Rockwood 2604WS (Rocky)
"Life is a cruel teacher. She gives the test first; the lesson then follows."
awellis3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2010, 08:08 PM   #9
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 9,903
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by awellis3

Quote:
Start with your truck tires.
I'm upgrading to 10 ply Michelins.

I'll be back with more questions, for sure,
Teach
Hi Teach,

If you are going for LT truck tires a few things to work thru. The rims need to be able to handle 80psi. And if they can, request high pressure stems.

You also mentioned Michelins. What is your truck wheel base?

I bought Michlelin LT23575R16 LTX Mud and Snow to put on my prior K2500 Suburban.(130” wheel base) I went that route believing I was buying a premium tire. And I will admit that truck rode the smoothest it ever did, empty. Like a new truck.

However the day I started towing with them is when the problems all started. A truck that was rock solid stable on the original Steel Tex tires now turned into a TV that could not hold a 26 foot TT in 25 MPH cross winds. After a lot of research and investigation the problem came from the tire itself. The sidewalls even though LT are still soft. A tire that flexes in the side wall is not a good towing tire. Having cushy ride and good towing stability do not go together.

The rear tires where already at 80 psi but the fronts where lower at door sticker on a 3/4 ton truck. 50psi. That 50psi on the Steel Tex was stiff. It was soggy on the LTX. A global shift occurred at 60psi in holding the TT better and 70 psi bounced so hard it created front end stability issues on that truck. So 65 psi was all I could do. The truck held the TT however it still was never the same. And then I had this issue.

This is the rear tire at 3,000 miles with most of it towing.


Yes you are looking at a 1/32” wear feathering pattern in 3000 miles on the rear tires.


All across the tire face.


And this on the front.




And yes my truck was aligned with the new tires. My weights are a lot higher then yours but under the tire ratings. That softer tire and sip pattern is not good for towing heavy on a mid to short wheel base truck.

Now, take that same tire and put it on a F250, crew cab short bed, or 2500HD crew cab short bed and the entire dynamics change. The F250 with the diesel up front can handle 75 psi and not bounce. Both of these trucks have long wheel base and the longer wheel base creates better towing stability so you do not see the side wall flex affect you.

But this past summer I had a another camping buddy put them on his F250 ext cab short bed V10 and a Hensley hitch. He too had Steel Tex before. I cautioned him but he bought them as other long bed truck owners had no issues. Well on trip one even with the Hensley hitch, the front of his truck was wandering all over. He aired them up and got out of it as his Frod front end could handle the higher pressure and not bounce.

If your wheel base is 135 to 130 or less, I would caution using Michlean’s as a towing tire.

And if you are going to LT’s they only gain there good stiffness at the higher pressures. Running them at 50psi can be as bad as a P rated tire. Had a buddy with BFG’s LT on his Yukon trying to get stability and he had to go to 70spi to get it.

So what tire is good for towing in LT’s? Best is find someone that has your same weight/length TT and truck if at all possible. I have Continental Conti Trac TR’s and they work on my F350. When I had to change them last year, tire guy tried again to sell me LTX, no way. However I do buy them on the DW's Trailblazer and they are great. Just not for towing and we do not tow with the Trailblazer.

Ask around what other folks are using and what there WB is and weight if
they know them.

Hope this helps

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 06:48 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
awellis3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 626
SUN #987
awellis3
Hmmmmm .... I guess I'll head back to the Tundra forum and see what I can find out.

Thanks, John,

Teach
__________________
http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/88/171/5/88/75/2165588750103096700MZYWsp_th.jpgWright Ellis and Penny Sedgley
'10 Tundra 4X4
SOB -'14 Rockwood 2604WS (Rocky)
"Life is a cruel teacher. She gives the test first; the lesson then follows."
awellis3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2010, 10:18 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
henryj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ontario
Posts: 635
SUN #597
henryj
I'll add some of my first hand experience to John's. I switched a previous Silverado 1500 from the original P235/16 car tires to LT225/75R16 LRD. The difference solo and towing a popup was huge. I would never use P tires on a truck again. I think you should also look at LRD not LRE. The LRE is totally over the top on a 1/2 ton. The max. psi on LRD is 65 psi so you can get a nice stiff sidewall and you can also play with load inflation tables to dial in the psi you need for your load and a good ride. I'm not sure what size you're looking for, but there's no place like Tirerack.com for research.

I had this Yokohama which is still a highly rated tire on tirerack. Click on the specs link to get a table of all sizes. Also when you enter tirerack's home page you can search all brands for the size you need. You might not be able to get the exact LT size that your current P is--look for the overall diameter and pick something close. My speedometer was off a bit on the Silverado because the LT225 is a shorter tire than P235, but it was tolerable. I would be inclined to go shorter for a better axle ratio before going taller than OEM.

Henry
__________________

__________________
2015 Silverado 1500 NHT
2014 Arctic Fox 22G
2005 Sunline T-2499
henryj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Northern Ohio Campground Recommendation ihsolutions Sunline Community 5 10-28-2009 04:34 PM



Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sunline RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:52 AM.