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09-09-2015, 01:12 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 162
SUN #1591
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elimnating sway ?
I've towed our 1950 cross country numerous times w/ our current hitch set-up w/o any sway problems.
Had a handy pal fabricate & weld a 7'x2' 100lb rack to trailer's rear frame. Maiden voyage w/ it carrying 250lb scooter was a fright due to lotsa sway @ 55mph & above. Was advised I needed more wt on tongue & to decrease # of unused links. Previously towed w/ 5 unused links on my wt dist. bars. Have tried it w/ fewer unused links (no tension on bars) but rear end still sways badly above 55mph. Should I try more unused links (more bar tension) ? Local RV dealer tech today rec'ed lowering ball ht. but haven't tried that yet either
What do you experts think ? I'd prefer mods on my existing hitch (Curt model 1702-rated 1000lbs tongue wt) before being forced to buy one w/ anti-sway bars. Need to fix this issue before next cc trip later this month
Thanx alot
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Glen & Kathleen
06 4.7L Tundra
06 T-1950, our 6 months/yr traveling home
one of numerous canoes
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09-09-2015, 01:51 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 373
SUN #2943
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The reduced number of links is because of the reduced tongue weight, I don't know how that will affect sway. With your rig I'd just move weight forward. You must carry something in the truck bed that you can putinthetrailer? I'd try that. Our Reese has anti sway and we don't have any, but we also have the trailer loaded heavy in the front and no heavy weight in the back taking tongue weight off
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2006 Sunline T-1950
2019 Ford F-250
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09-09-2015, 03:07 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,279
SUN #1830
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Increase weight on front of trailer. Do not travel with a full freshwater holding tank if it is behind wheels. Add a extra battery to tongue. Adjust chains to make sure trailer is riding level. Move canned goods forward. Your hitch weight was probably not much more than a few hundred pounds and you say you added hundreds to the rear. Now your hitch weight in probably only a few hundred pounds, if that much. You have changed the balance of your camper so need to recheck weights and bring tongue weight back to the recommended percentage of total weight.
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Beverly & Jim
Sebring, Florida
1991 T-2363 Solaris
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09-09-2015, 04:23 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 162
SUN #1591
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Thanx Tod & Jim for the replies
I carry lotsa stuff in back of our Tundra TV under the cap but I'm reluctant to move any of it into the trailer to balance it as I'd just have to move it somewhere else each time after a move to regain the living space it occupied.
Fresh, black & grey water tanks were all empty when nasty sway occurred.
I hope to cure problem w/ hitch adjustments, if possible ???
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Glen & Kathleen
06 4.7L Tundra
06 T-1950, our 6 months/yr traveling home
one of numerous canoes
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09-09-2015, 05:13 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 544
SUN #2366
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If your tongue weight is around 400 lbs, you have almost eliminated it. Very dangerous I would not recommend this setup at all.
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09-09-2015, 06:42 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 1,515
SUN #768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKLarson
....
I hope to cure problem w/ hitch adjustments, if possible ???
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That is not possible. The 100# rack and 250# scooter have removed too much tongue weight. Nothing you do to the hitch will correct the problem. An anti-sway device will not be of much help either. You really need to have 10% to 15% of your total trailer weight on the tongue.
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Gene & DW Ginny
2002 Sunline T-2363
2008 Toyota 4-runner 4wd 4.7L V-8
Reese Dual Cam straightline - P3 Brake controller
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09-09-2015, 07:23 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 544
SUN #2366
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This modification could leave you open to serious liabilty issues should an accident occur because of an unsafe condition. The fact that you towed many times previous to this mod without issue should give you a clue as to the reason for the change in handling.
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09-10-2015, 07:47 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 759
SUN #5039
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It's interesting that you ever had 1000# bars in the first place, IMHO. I find it hard to believe you ever had that kind of tongue weight to start with, tough not impossible. The dry weight of the T-1950 is what about 380 lbs.?
Just an observation. How many pounds would you guess you generally have behind the rear axle of the truck?
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TT:1983 Sunline T-1550
TT:1996 Sunline T-2053
TV:2005 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 2UZ-FE i-Force 4.7 L DOHC (MFI) V8 4WD SR5 Automatic
P3 break control
"I know a lot about nothing and nothing about a lot"
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09-10-2015, 09:05 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 544
SUN #2366
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Bunjin, he said his hitch was rated for 1000# of tongue weight. Not the torsion bars. I hope you meant tongue weight is 350 lbs. I think the trailer weighs a good bit more that. If his tongue weight on the 1950 is only 380 lbs and he added 350 to the rear, I wonder what his tongue weight is now! Put anything in the tanks or inside behind the wheels and he'll be lifting the rear of the tow vehicle.
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09-10-2015, 11:59 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 759
SUN #5039
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Thanks, I missed the "rated" tongue rate and yes I indeed meant 380 lbs tongue weight stated by Sunline. Just goes to show when in a hurry mistakes happens.
Good catch!
Your kinda hitting on what I was thinking as to the trailer trying to lift the truck. That is why I ask how much weight in the back of truck.
__________________
TT:1983 Sunline T-1550
TT:1996 Sunline T-2053
TV:2005 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 2UZ-FE i-Force 4.7 L DOHC (MFI) V8 4WD SR5 Automatic
P3 break control
"I know a lot about nothing and nothing about a lot"
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09-10-2015, 03:58 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,279
SUN #1830
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If the maximum weight rating of the camper is reached, 5000#, then the TT tongue weight, at 15% would be 750#. I would guess the scooter carrier at maybe 75#, if not more. Add the scooter, 250# plus 75#, and carrier to get 325#. The reduced hitch weight may be less than the full 325# determined by how balanced on the axle the weights are. Just to keep numbers simple I would say 750# less the 325# has a potential hitch weight of425#. Maybe 1/3 the recommended hitch weight.
Making up for this difference in weight probably cannot be "adjusted" using the hitch adjustments. I say that because if the equalizer bars were completely removed the hitch weight would still be less than needed.
You can add sway control to your existing hitch instead of buying a whole new hitch. Use your equalizer bars to level the camper and TV then use the sway control to hold it all in a straight line. Might work.
Added: I forgot to mention that adding weight to the truck will only have the tail wagging a fat dog. It isn't the truck causing, or stopping, the swaying. It is how the camper is balanced and that balance is now upset.
Just my opinion.
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Beverly & Jim
Sebring, Florida
1991 T-2363 Solaris
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09-10-2015, 08:33 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 544
SUN #2366
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Using less tension on the bars is also removing some downforce on the front axle, which will also destabilize the steering thus adding to difficulty in controlling sway. I think the bigger question is do you really need the scooter and if so, is there any way to put IT in the truck bed? This whole setup has me worried for the safety of you and your family.
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09-11-2015, 08:08 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 162
SUN #1591
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Thanx to all for trying to help me solve this issue
We spend 6 months/yr boondocking in some remote areas of the SW. The idea of the scooter was to make for a cheaper ride to town rather than driving the TV. (Plus some fun) It will stay @ home, however rather than creating a dangerous towing situation. I have a cap on my TV which keeps items in truck bed secure & out of weather but prevents loading the too tall scooter in truck bed w/o laying it on it's side
Although I'm reluctant to moving lotsa stuff to front of trailer to offset rear wt of scooter, I'll give it a try. I can fill 3 6gal water jugs (each 48lbs) & 2 50lb cased portable solar units & place all in far front of trailer hoping that 250lbs will offset the 350lb scooter/rack wt. If this eliminates sway will consider traveling w/ that arrangement despite having to move all that front wt after each move when we wanna use the trailer's living space.'
Another concern is sway happened when my fresh, grey & blackwater tanks were all empty. Both black & fresh water tanks are located behind rear axle while grey is centered over front axle. As each of these accumulates wt it will offset any efforts I make to add wt to trailer's front
BTW on last test tow I had no tension on wt dist bars thus allowing (I think)tongue to take all possible wt of trailer current balance situation
__________________
Glen & Kathleen
06 4.7L Tundra
06 T-1950, our 6 months/yr traveling home
one of numerous canoes
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09-11-2015, 09:02 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 759
SUN #5039
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Glen,
You may want to consider a front hitch mount for your truck and move the scooter up there.
Etrailer sells them. I had consider the mount to help me move my trailers around in my tight area at home.
I'm linking you to their page. General mounts
Front Truck hitch for tundra | etrailer.com
__________________
TT:1983 Sunline T-1550
TT:1996 Sunline T-2053
TV:2005 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 2UZ-FE i-Force 4.7 L DOHC (MFI) V8 4WD SR5 Automatic
P3 break control
"I know a lot about nothing and nothing about a lot"
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09-11-2015, 09:23 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 544
SUN #2366
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FYI, having no tension on WD bars will lift the front of thd TV, resulting in a decrease in the weigt on the front axle of your TV. This can affect steering and create a whole new, and conceivably more dangerous, situation of loss of directional control. Add that to rear sway and you are in deep doo doo.
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09-11-2015, 01:12 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 162
SUN #1591
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test results
So, as planned, I placed 250 lbs of wt inside as close to front of trailer as possible & drove "around the block". Got to 61-62 mph before rear end began to sway, not as badly as past but still wasn't tracking straight & I'd hope to travel safely (& straightly) @ 65mph on next trip
After test I moved scooter as far forward (about an additional 4in) as it would sit on rack w/o handlebar rubbing rear trailer exterior. Considering adding a 4th 6 gal water jug (another 48lbs) & re-testing but I'm not confident of results & unsure I wanna reposition all that wt each time we move.
BTW Already have 2 type 27 batteries mounted on tongue
Bunjin, I've thought about perhaps converting my rack to one that mounts on a front receiver but concerned about potential problems it may cause w/ safety, handling, tire & front end wear ??? But thanx for link. Will review it
Using my mt bike rather than scooter to dash into town this winter would be a healthier alternative in any case
Again, I appreciate the helpful replies
__________________
Glen & Kathleen
06 4.7L Tundra
06 T-1950, our 6 months/yr traveling home
one of numerous canoes
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09-11-2015, 02:25 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 544
SUN #2366
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How much is the tv squatting? Measure center of fender wells from the ground up to the body. The rear and front measurements should be within 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. The more weight you add to the front of the trailer to increase tongue weight, the more tension you need on the WD bars to keep the front of tv from lifting. The tv needs to sit as level as possible for steering putposes
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09-11-2015, 04:27 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,279
SUN #1830
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A helpful page/link: Our Rolling Home | Every Miles A Memory
Their home page: Every Miles A Memory
They have lots of help about setting up their tow vehicle and camper. That includes a rear rack and extra batteries, water for extended stays and many other things.
Their Sunline page: Sunline Coach Owner's Club - View Profile: emam
I think they have gone where you are going and might be able to answer some questions.
Hope this helps some.
__________________
Beverly & Jim
Sebring, Florida
1991 T-2363 Solaris
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09-13-2015, 03:57 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 162
SUN #1591
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the final solution
So, along w/ my handy friend we tried a number of different wt & hitch setups today & nothing we tried totally eliminated the sway & rough, bouncy ride
Was resigned to leaving the scooter @ home while away this winter when friend measured front of scooter from top to bottom of forks & thought it would fit w/ front wheel removed
Lo & behold, I got it to fit by doing so
Thanx for all replies Zoom zoom ...........
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Glen & Kathleen
06 4.7L Tundra
06 T-1950, our 6 months/yr traveling home
one of numerous canoes
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