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Old 02-11-2017, 09:29 PM   #41
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Yes, you should put a new sheet of 1/4" luan back on. The older smaller campers it seems they filled the entire lower portion. On the newer campers, they used what I showed you on a 2006 model. About 12 to 16" worth and only at the bottom.
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Old 02-12-2017, 02:24 PM   #42
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Good afternoon,

Tried to get a little done today seeing as it is 80 degrees outside. Ran into a little issue. The top of the sister wood is not lining up flush with the existing wood when I slide it in under the plywood. Any ideas as to why this may be? I would think that it all needs to be flush so that the plywood can lay flat. Any input is appreciated.

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Old 02-12-2017, 06:46 PM   #43
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It sounds like you have an old wood thickness verses new wood thickness issue? With the new wood being thinner. Is that right?

How did that happen? I have 2 guesses.

1. The planed final thickness is different on the new wood. The lumber industry keeps thinning things down. It use to be fairly standard a 2 x 4 was 1 1/2 x 3 1/2. And a 2 x 2 would be 1 1/2 x 1 1/2"

2. The 2 x 2's you have one side planed smooth and the other is a saw cut edge. Look and see. The saw cut edge may be less in width then the planed side. Rotating the board 90 degree to planed thickness may help fix the issue.

If I understood your situation right, yes the top of the new wood needs to be flush with the old wood so the flooring will be flat and smooth. If you find the new wood is planed to a different dimension and you can't rotate the 2 x 2 to fix the issue, you will need to hold up the new wood so it is flush with the old wood when you screw and glue them together.

Do you know how much the difference is? 1/32 or 1/16"? or something else? If it is only 1/32", then just hold up the broads to be flush on top when gluing and screwing so the plywood joint is flush.

If the difference is 1/16" or more, then you may have to shim in areas where the metal frame supports the new wood floor joists. That thin strip can be glued and stapled or just stapled/brad nailed on the bottom so it is sandwiched between the new wood and the metal frame support under it.

And the shim does not have to be wood either. It needs to be something dense to take weight and not compress and it needs to be non brittle. A piece of metal will work, even good solid floor fiber flooring. If you have a wood strip that thin, it is perfect. It may be hard ripping a sliver that thin without a table saw.

Does the 2 x 3 thickness line up with the new 2 x 2's? or is that a problem area too?

80 degrees out....send some heat up our way...

Hope this helps

John
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:29 PM   #44
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Tommie,


Based on your picture above with it all laid out. I would nail those short pieces to the ledger 2x3 and call it a day. As far as the new stock being taller than the old, lay the plywood on your new set up and see how close to being flush it is to the old plywood/OSB. If it sticks up too far then you will have to take those pieces and rip them about a saw blade on a table saw. More than likely the old stuff just shrunk over time or it was never actually 2x stock.
For the luan along the front, I would guess it was extra support for the aluminum as it might take a beating from water, gravel and stuff getting kicked up by the tow vehicle.


Steve P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomascine View Post
Good afternoon,

Tried to get a little done today seeing as it is 80 degrees outside. Ran into a little issue. The top of the sister wood is not lining up flush with the existing wood when I slide it in under the plywood. Any ideas as to why this may be? I would think that it all needs to be flush so that the plywood can lay flat. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,
Tommie
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Old 02-12-2017, 08:38 PM   #45
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Thanks JohnB and Sep.

I will try to clarify because I sometimes do not explain well. So let's see if I can make any sense.

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1. The planed final thickness is different on the new wood. The lumber industry keeps thinning things down. It use to be fairly standard a 2 x 4 was 1 1/2 x 3 1/2. And a 2 x 2 would be 1 1/2 x 1 1/2"
The new wood which is 2x2 (as you said 1.5 x 1.5 actual) is the same thickness as the existing and lines up very well with the 2x3 (1.5 x 2.5 actual). For some reason when I put in the sister pieces that extend under the exiting plywood, on the left side the wood does not go in straight. Seems to be okay on the right. I will have to go back out and double check it but I think you can see a little bit of it in the pic below. I am thinking about cutting it just short of the plywood and not going under it.


2. The 2 x 2's you have one side planed smooth and the other is a saw cut edge. Look and see. The saw cut edge may be less in width then the planed side. Rotating the board 90 degree to planed thickness may help fix the issue.
Yes, one side is smooth and the other side is a saw cut edge. I have the smooth side up to match the existing wood.

If I understood your situation right, yes the top of the new wood needs to be flush with the old wood so the flooring will be flat and smooth. If you find the new wood is planed to a different dimension and you can't rotate the 2 x 2 to fix the issue, you will need to hold up the new wood so it is flush with the old wood when you screw and glue them together.
The sister piece to the far left, I have to put quite a bit of force on it to try to make it flush. Not sure how I would get that piece screwed. Not even sure if it would hold. Is it possible that the camper is not level enough?

Do you know how much the difference is? 1/32 or 1/16"? or something else? If it is only 1/32", then just hold up the broads to be flush on top when gluing and screwing so the plywood joint is flush.

If the difference is 1/16" or more, then you may have to shim in areas where the metal frame supports the new wood floor joists. That thin strip can be glued and stapled or just stapled/brad nailed on the bottom so it is sandwiched between the new wood and the metal frame support under it.

And the shim does not have to be wood either. It needs to be something dense to take weight and not compress and it needs to be non brittle. A piece of metal will work, even good solid floor fiber flooring. If you have a wood strip that thin, it is perfect. It may be hard ripping a sliver that thin without a table saw.
There is no frame support where I am working except for the far left and right and where the 2x3 is in the front so I don't think I can shim unless I am not understanding. All that is in that area is the membrane. The next nearest metal support cross bar is back past midway of the door. I would have to cut quite a bit more floor out and the bathroom is that area that looks like a cabinet next to the hamper on the left.

Does the 2 x 3 thickness line up with the new 2 x 2's? or is that a problem area too?
Yep. Their thickness lines up very well. I don't think it is the thickness that is the problem but I could be wrong.

80 degrees out....send some heat up our way...
The weather here has been strange. It was cold (20s at some points) on Thursday and Friday then 60s on Saturday and then 80 today. The rest of the week it is supposed be in the 50s.

Hope this helps

John

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks,
Tommie
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:12 PM   #46
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Pictures help and the added info

Quote:
The new wood which is 2x2 (as you said 1.5 x 1.5 actual) is the same thickness as the existing and lines up very well with the 2x3 (1.5 x 2.5 actual). For some reason when I put in the sister pieces that extend under the exiting plywood, on the left side the wood does not go in straight. Seems to be okay on the right. I will have to go back out and double check it but I think you can see a little bit of it in the pic below. I am thinking about cutting it just short of the plywood and not going under it.


It now looks and sounds like the old floor joist is warped and or twisted and may even be a different thickness, shrunk and is less then the 1 1/2" new 2 x 2.

For the thickness issue, you can sand or hand plane if you have one, the bottom of the new 2 x 2 so it will fit under the old flooring. You only need to do the length that is the problem, not the whole length of the new board. That should drop it down to meet up with the old board. Is that correct?

If you have to take out 1/16 to 1/8" off the new board, that can be sawed. Ideal is on a table saw or radial arm saw but I did not think you had one of them. If you have a good sharp hand plane, you can hand plane off that much.

OR, if you clamp the board solid to a saw horse etc, and lay a 2 x 4 or 2 x 6 next to it to hold a circular saw, you can hold the saw and trim it off. If that is too much for you to do, then do not try it. It takes much use of a circular saw to do that type of fine cutting to control the saw. That said, if you have a good hand saw, you can even hand saw it off.

You mentioned just cutting the new 2 x 2 off so it does not go under the old flooring. I'm not following how that will solve the fit up issue. Wouldn't the bump then still be there? If the metal bottom cover is flexible enough one would think you could push it down and get the new 2 x 2 under the old floor. I must be missing something you are seeing.

If the old floor joist is warped/twisted so it tips the new 2 x 2 on an angle being screwed to the side, is that a problem? Not being able to see it, I can't tell if this will work because it may be a compound angle twist. Old wood and wet can twist like a cork screw if it wants to.

Short of seeing what the issue is, I'll throw this out, you can try and hand plane the old board to make it more true. That is if you have a small hand plane. They make many types. Sanding will work too but it may take forever unless you have a power belt sander. If you are good with a wood chisel and you have one, you can trim it with that too.

If none of this makes sense, take a few pics looking straight on the old board so we can see what you are up against.

Your doing good. Fit up to old stuff can make you learn lot of new skills. Anyone can work with good clean and square wood. It takes more time, and some ingenuity to work of old twisted up stuff...

Hope this helps

John
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:20 PM   #47
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OK, quick question, is the new 2 x 2 on the far left pointing up hill so to speak because you held the top of the new 2 x 2 flush with the old 2 x 2? Meaning the old 2 x 2 is warped pointing up hill?

Is so, then in this case, align the new 2 x 2 with the new 2 x 3 end. Go back by the plywood flooring and put the new 2 x 2 under the floor. You may have to trim the bottom of the new 2 x 2 to get it under there. You will now see a wedge of the old 2 x 2 sticking up as it is warped up in relation to the new straight 2 x 2. If this is the case, then plane down the top of the old board to align with the new 2 x 2.


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Old 02-12-2017, 09:24 PM   #48
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Thanks JohnB.

I will try to take some pictures at different angles tomorrow evening when I get home and post them up.

Thanks,
Tommie
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Old 02-12-2017, 09:33 PM   #49
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Quote:
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OK, quick question, is the new 2 x 2 on the far left pointing up hill so to speak because you held the top of the new 2 x 2 flush with the old 2 x 2? Meaning the old 2 x 2 is warped pointing up hill?
When I was pushing that piece under the plywood, it seemed the further back I pushed it in the more the front came upward.
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:33 PM   #50
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Good evening,

I went to look at the wood more and to take some pics. The new wood is the same thickness as the existing but is tad bit wider, not really a problem there. I apologize ahead of time. Some of the pictures are sideways.

The far left and the far right has a part of the frame in those areas so the wood is resting on the frame a bit. The right side lays almost flush.



The middle, there appears to be a gap below the wood but I think that is because the membrane has no support there and sags.


And there is a staple next to one of the pieces of existing wood in the middle that is hindering me putting another right next to it.


The left side, I think I will need to get the kid to hold it down while I screw it in. Let me know what you think.


I am going to try to bolt down the 2x3 when I get home tomorrow. Hopefully I will have enough daylight left.


Thanks,
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Old 02-13-2017, 07:51 PM   #51
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Hi Tommie,

Good pics! Now we see what you have.

Yes, the bottom metal is bend up a little in this area. Just do what you where saying, hold it down so the top is flush and screw it on the 2 x 3.

If you do not have a helper, there is a way to clamp a board on top to hold it down for you.

Find a scrape or extra piece of wood. A piece of 3/4" board or even a 2 x something wide board. What ever you have laying around.

See the pic. Cut it long enough to span from the 2 x 3 to the outside 2 x 2. Hold the board down and put a screw in each end. If you can get one screw in the new 2 x 2 to the 2 x 3, then you can lift up the hold down and put the rest of the screws in.



And, if the metal bottom bend has enough force on it, it might pop up the entire 2 x 3 once you get the 2 x 2 screwed to it. That should not be a problem, it will go down once the weight and bolts are in. H'mm but I thought you where maybe going to bolt the 2 x 3 down first which if so, then no problem that sheet metal is not that strong to lift the bolts out you just put in.

Hope this helps and let us know how it goes.

John
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Old 02-13-2017, 07:59 PM   #52
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Question, how are you going to screw the 2 x 2 to the 2 x 3?

I'm assuming angled screws from the side or a pocket hole screw if you have the jig.

If so, drill a pilot hole in the 2 x 2 for the screw a little smaller then the OD of the screw to not accidentally split it just forcing the whole screw through it. The 2 x 3 should be OK with no predrill. If it does create a problem, then put a tiny pilot hole in the 2 x 3 and rub the screw on the side of a bar of soap. The soap acts as a lube and will put screws in a lot easier and not split as fast.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:30 PM   #53
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Thanks JohnB.

Well, I was going to use staples to attach the 2x2s to the 2x3 like the original install. I was afraid of splitting the wood with screws but that one on the far left will require something stronger than staples. I do not have a jig. I guess I could get one. They don't seem to be too expensive. One of my co-workers has one. I could borrow theirs. I will check on it one day this week so that I will have it this weekend. More warm weather expected this weekend, in the 60s I think.

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Old 02-14-2017, 08:20 AM   #54
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Hi Tommie,

On the staples, yes they will work as all our campers started that way. But I believe they stapled the top and the bottom, not just one side. You can still do this, put 2 x 3 in the camper, line up all the 2 x 2's, number the 2 x 2's in order, mark their location, take it all out, staple top and bottom then bring the whole thing back in.

Yes this is more fiddling around and my be harder to get it back in, but I do not know if just stapling from the top would hold very well long term. If the 2 x 2's are supported by a steel beam under them, then maybe staples from the top only and glue and screw on the plywood to create the full joint holding could work. If there is no steel beam under the 2 x 2's, then I would be leary of just 2 staples on top holding it all.

The Krieg jig screws, yes they will hold. They make a silver (interior) screw and a blue (corrosion resistant screw). If you have to buy new ones, in this bottom location near moisture from condensation, I would use the blue.

Thanks

John
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:58 AM   #55
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Thanks JohnB!

Decisions, decisions. The part of the 2x2s that bump against the 2x3 does touch over a small portion of the front of the frame horizontally. I don't recall if there were staples at the bottom of the old 2x2 pieces. I won't take any chances. I will get a Kreg tool and use screws. I have never used one before but it sounds pretty simple. I am sure there is a YouTube video out there. I love YouTube.

I saw a thread by another member that mentioned a brand of screws that was pretty strong but don't recall who it was. Any experiences with any good brands? I only ask because I have bought screws in the past from a recommendation by a Lowes associate and a bunch of them broke when we were putting them in. First tried without pilot holes and then tried with. They were of poor quality.

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Old 02-14-2017, 03:34 PM   #56
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Yeah, don't sweat using the jig. It's easy.

Was this the camper in Silver Spring I had seen on eBay?

Keep up the good work. You'll be camping in no time and can be proud of your accomplishment.
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:49 PM   #57
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Hi Tommie,

If your using the Kreg system, I would use their screws. The are hardened screws, very good quality, use the #2 square drive bit and the threads and heads fit the pocket hole system.

If you get or borrow the R3 kit, it comes with the tools/parts you need plus the jig. You mentioned a U tube, Yes, just go to U tube and put in Kreg Jig and watch for a good long time.

Here is a simple one on the R3 unit and it shows a quick how to use it, what it can do and how the pocket hole concept works


I would suggest you get the Blue Coat for floor and wall joints. There will be a small level of condensation there and the blue ones have better corrosion resistance.
https://www.kregtool.com/store/c20/k...crews/#tab4818

And since this is soft wood, you get the course thread

They also offer screw kits which has an assortment. Just I do not recall the 2 1/2" being in the kit. Amazon has a lot of the Kreg products. Menard's, Home Depot and I think Lowes has then too.

These jigs are very versatile for joining wood. You just need different screws for the different applications. Once you use them, you wonder how you ever got along with out one when doing wood projects.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:15 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybgood View Post
Yeah, don't sweat using the jig. It's easy.

Was this the camper in Silver Spring I had seen on eBay?

Keep up the good work. You'll be camping in no time and can be proud of your accomplishment.
Good evening Johnnybgood.

Yes, I did buy the camper on eBay from a guy in Maryland. I was so excited until I found out that it had water damage. I am still glad that I bought one. It is a good learning experience. I can't wait to start using it.

Thanks,
Tommie
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:32 PM   #59
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Thanks JohnB.

I was going to ask about the length of the screws. I have some wood in the garage left over from other projects. I can practice on that before moving on to the new wood for the camper. I made a note to look for blue coated, coarse thread screws, 2 1/2 inches for the current task. I did see the Krej Jig at both Lowes and Home Depot for about the same price as Amazon. So I will probably buy it locally. I will stick to their brand for the screws. I didn't look to see their availability of the screws but I'm sure they carry them.

Wow! I feel like my brain is overloaded. Lots of information to take in. But it is a good learning experience.


Thanks again,
Tommie
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:36 PM   #60
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Good evening,

Got a Kreg Jig today. I haven't tested it yet but it will be interesting to see how such a big drill bit can work for skinny screws.


Quick question. The jig has two slots for drilling holes side by side. Would you use two screws in a 2x2?

Learning more each day.

Thanks,
Tommie
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