Upgrading the Windows

emam · 12-15-2007, 07:32 PM

Has anyone ever upgraded the windows in their Sunline? We dont have double pane windows and I cant stand the fact that they sweat every morning as we sit and eat breakfast.

I walked around the last few campgrounds we stayed out while ours were fogged up, and noticed only the real highend coaches that have double pane windows didnt have this problem.

I checked in with this company that custom makes double pane insulated windows, but I just wanted to make sure that upgrading to the double pane windows will solve this problem.

Does anyone have the double pane windows to know if this will solve the problem?

Pat

**Sunline Fan** · 12-15-2007, 08:44 PM

Message content deleted by author.

kanyonkitty · 12-16-2007, 08:55 AM

I seldom encounter condensation problems, but then again, I seldom rv in the cold, except for my yearly thanksgiving trip to TN. Just this year I was thinking of what I could do to prevent condensation. I was wondering about that clear plastic sheeting that you heat n shrink with a blow dryer

My only problem with that is would it leave a mess when I went to remove it

And how well would it hold up to curious gotta see out the window dog noses

I've never used it, so would need to find these things out before I'd even consider using it.

I even thought about thin plexiglass attached with the little plastic tabs, like I did on my screen door.

IF I could come up with something, it could possibly extend my camping season. I know the condensation drains out of the window, but I just don't like all that moisture inside the trailer.

Kitty

**JohnB** · 12-16-2007, 09:50 AM

Hi Pat

First, I’m not trying to talk anyone out of thermo pane windows. I really wish I had them…. They will help create a better thermal barrier and keep heat in during the winter and cool in during the summer. They will help but may not fix everything you are after. Depending on what that is.

The windows are only part of the issues pending on how cold you camp. We do camp all year round when we can. In fact we are going into camping with drawl… as it has been 4 weeks now… the weather here has just not cooperated on a weekend. Today the wind is blowing like crazy and the snow along with it. Come on spring…..

When we do make it out cold weather camping this is what we have to do or else.

What I’m going to describe is 20 to 25 F nights and 35 to 45 F days. At night especially, you must vent the camper or else. On the T2499 we open the roof vent in the rear living area. The opened end is up a good full 1”. Yes it needs to be that much.

When we sleep the vent over our head in the bedroom we close and have a foam insulated cushion up in it along with the one in the bath room. We even made a cutom one to go up in the shower dome. As we sleep the amount of moisture that comes out of just plain breathing is unbelievable. One night I forgot to open the vent, oh my goodness, everything was drenched. The walls, the ceiling and of course the windows. If you open the vent, come morning, it is 98% better then not doing it. If you do not vent “enough” that percentage changes.

The moisture is dying to get out of the camper, so just open the vent and let it go…. And yes it will let out some heat too but the trade off is not comparable.

If you actually do change the windows, that will help with that area, but if you do not vent you will still have the other moisture problems. Just look around the doors where the aluminum trim is, it will be soaked. Open up the cabinet under the fridge and look at the wheel wells. They too will have moisture on them. Basically any surface to the outside world that does not have some kind of insulation between outside and inside.

There is another option, a dehumidifier. I have not used one, but others have and have reported it does the trick. Need to get a big enough one, but it attacks the moisture problem with the machine removing it.

If you looking for a quick fix, vent. If you want 2nd option that goes beyond venting, try the dehumidifier and a little bit of venting. This will help during the day when cooking inside or showering or other higher moisture producing activities.

And if you can spring for thermo panes, by all means go for it. If I ever buy a new camper, it will have them in it. The last I priced them up on a new camper to upgrade, was like ~$1,400 to $1800 pending how many windows. When only doing the upgrade, you are only paying the difference. Not the total change out cost.

Please let us know how you make out. Actually now that we have the bigger camper, I might investigate the dehumidifier as we have more room to put one. We have a small one in the basement that we could take with us and try. H’mm note to self, remember to do this next time. Thanks, I would not of thought of it until your post. I’ll report back on experiment.

John

emam · 12-16-2007, 08:59 PM

Hey John, great idea with the dehumidifier. I'm going to look around for a real small one. We used to keep one running non-stop in our basement because it was an older house.

Only problem was it was pretty big. I've never seen any that would fit in a camper? Once you said that, Cindy and I both thought about how it would help keep the place warm because of how much heat the dehumidifier gives off itself.

Then there is the fact that a dehumidifier collets water!!! That would be ideal for boondocking as it would give us excess water for flusing toilets and washing dishes.

As for a quick fix, we took Kitty's suggestion and stopped at a big box store and bought some widow film.

Cindy spent an hour tonight covering the big back window and the one right behind the couch. Those were our two biggest complaints because of the slight draft that would blow on you.

Once we put the film up, I just supervised and got yelled at when ever I made a suggestion

It's night and day difference. No draft, and the little heater is shutting off rather then running non-stop.

For $7, it's way better than purchasing new dual-pane windows and a must have in my mind for winter camping.

Oh and we are also going to keep a roof vent cracked to see if will vent out the moisture.

Hopefully with all these improvements, it'll really help in the winter camping routine.

Thanks to everyone, and we'll keep you posted as to how it works

Pat & Cindy

precorguy · 12-17-2007, 06:07 AM

dual pane windows - something that i wished we had ---- i know its not a complete solve for the problem of condensation - but would hlep alot with heating and cooling.

we don't have much of a problem with condensation as we leave the living room and bathroom vents open just a bit - we have the vent covers --- and we keep the furnace down at night as we have a heated mattress pad --- but as noted above, its the heating and cooling that would be somewhat better.

i think that we will try the window film stuff on one of the windows and see what happens -- as i agree, its cheaper than the dual panes.

this should help as we like to camp in the early spring and in the late fall --- or until its too cold to leave the hose out --- up here - many of the campgrounds close after thanksgiving weekend.

we usually start our spring camping right after our winter holiday in florida - not sure how that will work this year as we are going to florida in feb not end of march - oh well.

we didn't get to camp after thanksgiving this past year as my partner was sent to ireland for a month (work - nice eh!).

concerning the dehumidifier --- is there one that is very small - i have never seen one that we could put someplace that we would not be tripping over it.

this leads to two other quesitons:
> where to place a dehumifier?
> what about the nosie of it running?
> how much electricity does it use --- is there going to be a conflict between it and a heater on the trailer electical system?

emam · 12-17-2007, 08:42 AM

Well First night with the window film and the vents open an inch or two and woke up to clear windows and no condinsation

Again I'll bow down and say how much I LOVE THIS FORUM because of all the bits of info I learn from it.

Precorguy, as for the dehumidifier, the more I think about it, the only way you would be able to use one would be if you were plugged into shore power. I remember ours at home would dim all the lights in the house when it would kick on as it drew so much power.

Keep thinking though, there has to be another way around it

Pat

kanyonkitty · 12-17-2007, 12:02 PM

Hey, got to thinking (i know, thinking is dangerous for me to do) about all this condensation that were talking about. Well, I figured out how "I'm" gonna solve it. We cause this condensation because we breath, so from now on when I'm having a condensation problem, I'm just gonna stop breathing so that I don't cause any more condensation. It really can't be all that hard right

Hey how about wearing masks with long hoses that expel our "HOT" air outside of the trailer

Kitty

**JohnB** · 12-17-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kanyonkitty

Hey, got to thinking (i know, thinking is dangerous for me to do) about all this condensation that were talking about. Well, I figured out how "I'm" gonna solve it. We cause this condensation because we breath, so from now on when I'm having a condensation problem, I'm just gonna stop breathing so that I don't cause any more condensation. It really can't be all that hard right

Hey how about wearing masks with long hoses that expel our "HOT" air outside of the trailer

Kitty

H'mm, well that is one approach. Please, test this and report back....

Must admit, the laugh was great

emam · 12-17-2007, 07:41 PM

Kitty, everyone tells me I talk so much, that I'm thinking if someone was to pass by and see this tube hanging out of the bottom of the camper, they'd think it was an old diesel running with white smoke just billowing out of it

Goo thinking though

Pat

**JohnB** · 12-17-2007, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emam

Well First night with the window film and the vents open an inch or two and woke up to clear windows and no condinsation

Again I'll bow down and say how much I LOVE THIS FORUM because of all the bits of info I learn from it.

Precorguy, as for the dehumidifier, the more I think about it, the only way you would be able to use one would be if you were plugged into shore power. I remember ours at home would dim all the lights in the house when it would kick on as it drew so much power.

Keep thinking though, there has to be another way around it

Pat

Pat, the clear film did you stick it on the alum frame work? Thinking about this myself.

Now to the dehumidifier. The one we have in the basement is 12 1/2 wide x 20 deep x 20 high. It's a Kenmore out of Sears. Bought it like 15 years ago.... The terms energy efficient where not a high priority back then

It draws 7.5 amps when on high. So it is something to keep track of. When I winter camp I have a separate 20 gage power cord I feed into the camper to have a 2nd 15 amp line on top of the 30 amp shore line plug.

You are OK if you plug (1) 1500 watt heater in the camper and the dehumidifier into the 2nd power feed. But both on the same 30 amp service will trip a 15 amp breaker. Unless you can get to the micro wave plug which has a separate 20 amp circuit. And even then watch what else you are using.

On the T2499, this size dehumidifier might be a bit large; it is more manageable on the T310SR. If we go, I'll try it “once” and see how well or not it works. If it is sliced bread, then have to find a smaller one. I have not shopped for one in 15 years so I have no idea what is out there.

And your quest has prompted some research.

http://www.ezbreathe.com/dehumidifie...ID=80072222021 It says 40 watts. Not a lot of power. Have no idea what it costs or works.

Here is another similar one, 31 watts http://www.humidexhome.com/pub/Basement

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/a...view/index.htm

Well all this tells me, I need to do more home work.... Even if one goes with the dehumidifier technology they now make Energy Star rated ones which will help.

I’ll start with the clear film for $7 bucks

John

emam · 12-17-2007, 11:01 PM

John, on our windows there is a 1/4" to 1/2"?? channel all the way around the window. The 2 way tape that came in the box you would almost think the window frame company made them for each other.

They are the exact same size and with some cutting to make the radius, Cindy had it all trimmed up fine. The package she bought was good for 5 windows in a house, so it did the big window in the back of the 2499 and the one behind the couch.

For us, these were the two trouble some ones because that's were we're always sitting. We probably have enough to do every window in the coach.

Like I said, the hardest part is getting the window treatments down.

For $7, it cant be beat. And all I had to do was supervise this job

Cindy wanted to tackle it herself, so I let her. Cant beat that!!

Pat

**PTHutch** · 12-18-2007, 09:27 AM

Pat,

We keep these Dri-Z-Air in the trailer during winter storage to help remove some of the moisture. They do a good job wrt removing moisture from the air. They're about $8 at camping world.

This may be an alternative to a dehumidifier that will also work while boon-docking.

Hope you and Cindy have a Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year.
Hutch

Skyraider50 · 02-02-2012, 08:49 PM

Just bumping an old thread and wondering...about the De-humidifier. I live in S Florida and humidity MUST be a problem during the summer months when the TT will not be used as much. I was thinking of running the AC here and there to keep things dry inside. Not crazy about that for several reasons BUT maybe a De-humidifier would serve the same purpose....for less and no mileage on the AC?
I have seen some small units on the Web that might work.
Any thoughts as to effectiveness of this plan? AND any suggestions for a unit?
Thank you in advance.....

**Tweety** · 02-03-2012, 05:37 AM

Check out the dehumidifier this person put in. Click the first link in their list of mods. Their 2753 isn't the standard floorplan, so the dehumidifier that's under the sofa is really located across from the kitchen and next to the shower. I wish I knew who it is to ask them where they found it and how it works. I love that it's built in and out of the way.
Owner Modifications - 2003 Sunline Travel Trailer - Solaris 2753

Skyraider50 · 02-03-2012, 04:51 PM

Beautiful job of engineering and installing the Dehumidifier....BUT WHAT THE HECK did they NOT modify? WOW......That is impressive!!
Thanx Tweety!

mainah · 02-04-2012, 06:36 AM

A dehumidifier is nothing more then a A/C unit and I think with all the moisture in a camper it would be working over time. One of the biggest moisture makers is cooking with propane and of course a shower I usually just run the big vent (Fantastic fan) after cooking or a shower yeah it does cool it off but I can make up heat faster then I can get rid of moisture. My T1700 has little clips on the inside of the window frames and I was told they were for storm windows I often wondered if I could cut some thin clear plastic to fit. We usually start camping in early May and it can be some cold up here in Maine my last trip was late Nov to VT. So I could use storm windows! We have the luxury of a garage to put the camper in during the winter so I just open the vents and windows and it stays nice and dry.

Skyraider50 · 02-04-2012, 09:05 AM

What I was really thinking about is the summer months in S FL. ....the rainy season. The humidity level is pretty high (and hot) and the TT won't get used all that much. I was debating whether I wanted to run the AC occasionally or try a dehumifier to keep the interior air dry?

mainah · 02-04-2012, 10:54 AM

I guess it's 6 of 1 and a half a dozen of the other if you are going to be using it then the A/C other wise the dehumidifier. The dehumidifier uses less electricity but does not cool and it does need to be emptied unless there is a provision to drain it externally. I'm not sure if you would notice the difference in the humidity level going into a hot camper it would keep the camper drier though.

Skyraider50 · 02-04-2012, 11:24 AM

Well, the deal is I can buy a small DeH unit for $100 or less...like this:
Eva-Dry Mid-Size Dehumidifier - White (EDV-2200) : Target

that according to specs and reviews is designed for an area much larger than what I need. Operates relatively cheaply. I don't really care about the heat, as it will be for summer down time when not being used. I just want the mold/mildew moisture eliminated more or less.
Have to work out the dumping...thing