Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
Sunline RV Forum
Sunline User Photos

Go Back   Sunline Coach Owner's Club > Technical Forums > Repairs and Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Join Sunline Club Forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-08-2017, 05:18 PM   #1
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Toilet to Black Tank Connection - Need help

Hi Folks,

Need some help on my 2004 T1950. I have never had one of these apart and looking for info on how to pull the toilet flange from the black tank. It looks like the flange is ABS welded to a spout pipe that goes into the tank. There does not appear to have any welded fitting on the bottom of the pipe as seen from the inside of the pipe.

Does the tank have a rubber grommet connection that the pipe just sticks into the tank through the grommet?

I tried lifting the flange with 2 screw drivers under it and everything sort of flexed but no movement. I did not want to pull any harder until I knew more how this goes together.

Is there a trick to pulling on the flange to get it to release?

The floor under the bathroom is bad and needs to be replaced. Thus the toilet flange and black tank have to come out.

Any help, greatly appreciated.

Thanks

John

Here is the flange setup.






__________________

__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 06:10 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 39
SUN #9333
JohnByrum is an unknown quantity at this point
I watched a YouTube video a couple of days ago where someone was replacing the black tank in a vintage trailer.
This was a series called Mark's RV Garage where he is restoring an old Yellowstone camper.
The new tank came with no holes in the top.
He drilled the toilet hole and then there was a rubber flange or what looked like a grommet.
He put silicone in the grommet grove and pried it into the tank.
The toilet pipe would side into the center of the grommet.
I went away with the assumption that they were all built this way.
https://youtu.be/2ABq0et2wvk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________

__________________
JohnByrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 06:11 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 39
SUN #9333
JohnByrum is an unknown quantity at this point
https://youtu.be/2ABq0et2wvk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
JohnByrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 06:12 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 39
SUN #9333
JohnByrum is an unknown quantity at this point
This video shows how a new tank is installed with the grommet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
JohnByrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 07:58 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
bunjin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 759
SUN #5039
bunjin is an unknown quantity at this point
JohnB,
From what I can see it looks like black ABS cement I'm seeing in your photo looking into the flange.

May I subject taking a machinist/mechanics telescoping mirror and looking back up under the flange/pipe (which is looking from inside the tank) to see if you can see a grommet flange or just a smooth pipe ID. This may give a clue as to whether you have a grommet or the flange is glued to a fitting on the tank.

The video is interesting. Three things stand out that I would like to make a comment on. 1) he used clear ABS cement, which is ok, however, black was in my day more commonly used. 2) When gluing make at least a 1/4 turn and then back (which he did) but hold the glued parts together for a few moments as the glue pressure can tend to push the parts back apart and it is generally best to be fully seated. 3) The black ABS pipe is for drain and venting, yet he chose what look like schedule 40 PVC pipe as his vent. Why? color, being that it was exposed and not in a chase?
__________________
TT:1983 Sunline T-1550
TT:1996 Sunline T-2053
TV:2005 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 2UZ-FE i-Force 4.7 L DOHC (MFI) V8 4WD SR5 Automatic
P3 break control
"I know a lot about nothing and nothing about a lot"
bunjin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 07:59 PM   #6
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Thanks for that link John. Much appreciated. Mark Polk, yes I know of him, a well respected guy in the RV world.

It seems there are at least 2 different ways to connect the toilet pipe/flange, The rubber grommet like Mark did and then ones that screw in. I cannot see any evidence of threads. And the pipe into the tank sure looked like solvent welded into the floor flange. There is a little melted glue/plastic up top and the ID of the pipe into the tank is straight bore pipe with no indentations of anything. Just pipe.

This may well be the rubber grommet setup. That pipe is really tight in the tank. The rubber may have hardened up some and binding the pipe so it will not budge. Hoping someone has been through this before in how to get it loose.

I do have to drop the tank too, and the vent pipe is there are well. I "thought" the vent pipe had the rubber grommet style fitting. I will come to this next on how to get the vent pipe out.

I did think of something when reading your note. I have an inspection camera, a bore scope, and I can go up in the tank through the dump valve and look at the toilet pipe and see what the tank connection looks like. If it is rubber, then how to spray silicone or something on the rubber to help release it is a thought but how to get it in the right place is still an unknown.

Thanks for the help. It is good to have a sounding board to make me think more on it.

Thanks

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 08:08 PM   #7
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bunjin View Post
JohnB,
From what I can see it looks like black ABS cement I'm seeing in your photo looking into the flange.

May I subject taking a machinist/mechanics telescoping mirror and looking back up under the flange/pipe (which is looking from inside the tank) to see if you can see a grommet flange or just a smooth pipe ID. This may give a clue as to whether you have a grommet or the flange is glued to a fitting on the tank.
Hi bunjin,

I will try my inspection camera tomorrow to help the search. It was late in the day today when I made it to the toilet and I hit that brick wall fast...

Yes, it does look like ABS cement on top. This helps support the rubber grommet in the tank thought. Using a flash light down the pipe I do not see anything that looks like the pipe is in a fitting on the ID of the pipe on top of the tank. It is like it is just cut off. Again that supports the rubber grommet theory.

On gluing up the fittings, thank you. Yes I know about the push back effect and the 1/4 turn 2 ways. On Mark's video, I missed he used the other PVC cement. Good eye!. And I didn't notice until now the PVC pipe?? It will work but why change from ABS? I'm sure he may have had a reason, just not obvious to us.

I'll report back tomorrow on my findings.

Thanks

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2017, 08:34 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
bunjin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 759
SUN #5039
bunjin is an unknown quantity at this point
I knew you had the resources for looking back up the pipe to see what it looks like.

It may be a stretch but is it by chance possible to wick a lubricant under the flange (once determining it is a grommet)? ABS onto ABS (pipe to socket/fitting) can lock up almost as if it were glued as I'm sure you know.

I guess worst comes to worst is sacrificing the flange fitting?

Good luck and as usual you are doing a fantastic job of documenting. Most appreciated for the time, effort and sharing.

Lynn

P.S. We should have a section called: "The Adventures of JohnB"!
__________________
TT:1983 Sunline T-1550
TT:1996 Sunline T-2053
TV:2005 Toyota Tundra Double Cab 2UZ-FE i-Force 4.7 L DOHC (MFI) V8 4WD SR5 Automatic
P3 break control
"I know a lot about nothing and nothing about a lot"
bunjin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 08:26 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
jim44646's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,125
SUN #4040
jim44646 is an unknown quantity at this point
In talking with Home Depot guy that works in the plumbing department. He told me ABS is being phased out and soon be off the market. Something about the amount of oil used in ABS.
__________________
Jim and DW Darlene
2001 T-2553 Sunline Solaris
2006 GMC Sierra Duramax 2500HD 4X4
Firestone Transforce AT tires
Reese Dual Cam Sway Control
jim44646 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 06:52 PM   #10
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim44646 View Post
In talking with Home Depot guy that works in the plumbing department. He told me ABS is being phased out and soon be off the market. Something about the amount of oil used in ABS.
Thanks for the update Jim. H'mm wonder if the RV suppliers will change or not. There is a lot of ABS in the RV world and repair parts are still needed.

Valtera and all the other dump valve etc manufactures may be affected too.

Time will tell.

Thanks

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 07:39 PM   #11
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Today was successful on the toilet flange front.

I hooked up the inspection camera borescope and went into the black tank. One good thing about the camper last being used in 2010 was, they cleaned out the black tank before putting it in storage and it was for sure dry inside. Some dirt, but no moisture.

Here is the camera work.

John having a sit down doing a probe job on the black tank...


Nice thing about this camera, the display can be remote. It uses a wireless connection to the monitor. It can be on the power handle or by itself.

And if you are wondered what it looks like looking up from the tank into the camper? See here. NOTE: The time and date are off on the borescope. I never made it to updating it.


Amazing this camera can see that far away well. But close up in the tank, it is hard to get it to focus as you are so close to things. But it did what I needed it to.

Here is the toilet flange inside the tank. Ah ha! Threads! OK I can make this work, I think.


While I had everything all hooked up, I needed to find out how the black tank vent pipe connected to the tank. Here I had "thought" they used the rubber grommet. It does not appear that way. It appears they glued the vent pipe into the tank with no fitting. At least from what is inside the tank. Will know more when I drop the black tank.

Fishing around with the stiff flexible camera cable was not easy. I had to add a cable extension so I could go into the tank deeper. And I had to go on the roof and measure the vent pipe in order to figure out where in the tank to start looking. I tried before I measured and came up dry, could not find anything. After not finding anything, I used the vent pipe dimensions and found an approx area. I used a flash light and looked in the tank by eye and saw one corner of the vent pipe. That and the dimensions allowed me to find the vent with the camera.

Once I found the right area, I put a flash light in the top of the pipe on the roof to shine down so I could look for the light. This helped.

Here are some numbers on the top inside of the tank left over from manufacturing. Have no idea what 143 is for


Here is the top edge of the tank. I needed to use that seam to follow it down the tank.


The middle of the tank was a big blur. See here


Globs of ABS glue squirted in the tank from bonding the top on. These tanks I believe are thermoformed as an open top and then a top lid bonded on.


And the flash light shinning down the vent pipe


And the side of the vent pipe in the tank. It looks like the vent pipe is welded in the tank directly. Will know for sure when we take the tank down.


This camera work took over an hour. The toilet flange went quick, 10 minutes, but the tank vent was searching in the dark with a head light on... but we got er done.

So with this, I had a preconceived notion that 3" threaded fitting on the toilet flange was going to be a bugger to get out. I did not want to damage the toilet flange so I stopped and made a spanner wrench to be able to turn the flange on all 4 bolt slots at once. It took be an hour to make the tool but it worked great!

The spanner wrench. The top side I can put a large socket on. I made this up of left over steel and a large bolt I had laying around.


The bottom with 4 bolts sticking out as pins. I can adjust the depth of the pins and needed too. The toilet flange was not flat.


The wrench on top of the floor flange
The flange itself showing the 4 bolt slots the spanner works on




And the tool in action.


Within 30 seconds after this, the flange was out. Yeh! I thought for sure this was going to come out hard.


Here is the flange and pipe


They used ABS glue and screwed a pipe nipple into the flange. This is why we saw cement on the top of the flange. I think they wanted the pipe to be part of the flange and insure the pipe would come out of the tank.


Here is the female thread flange welded in the tank


So this is how the toilet flange connects to the black tank on a 2004 camper.

Thanks

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2017, 10:44 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
jim44646's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,125
SUN #4040
jim44646 is an unknown quantity at this point
Good job,

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
__________________
Jim and DW Darlene
2001 T-2553 Sunline Solaris
2006 GMC Sierra Duramax 2500HD 4X4
Firestone Transforce AT tires
Reese Dual Cam Sway Control
jim44646 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2017, 05:23 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,357
SUN #2097
mainah is an unknown quantity at this point
Yep mine was screwed in too. I did not have an issue but when i redid the camper I turned the flange so my knees were not against the cabinet when I used the john. be sure to use a RV seal the standard toilet wax rings will not last in a RV because of the heat.
__________________
mainah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 02:04 PM   #14
Moderator
 
Sunline Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,155
SUN #123
Sunline Fan is an unknown quantity at this point
Yep, my '98 was screwed in like this too. I didn't have to unscrew it- the connecting pipe was broken off at the flange. Bought a new connecting pipe and flange and reassembled.
__________________
2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
Sunline Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2017, 11:40 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4
SUN #9684
FayeW is an unknown quantity at this point
Hope that this would be helpful to you. Here are the general steps used by the toilet repair service providers to pull out the toilet flanges.
Unscrew the screw that holds the flange to the floor.
Pull out the flanges either by twisting it counter clockwise or upwards from the black water tank.
Remove the black water vent cover
Next is to detach the vent pipe from the tank. For that, unscrew the vent pipe from the black water tank.
Remove the black water tank
Remove sensors and probes attached to the exterior of the black tank
Remove the dump valve assembly
Pull out the black water tank.
__________________
FayeW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2017, 09:01 PM   #16
RPC
Junior Member
 
RPC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20
SUN #9752
RPC is an unknown quantity at this point
A lot of good info shared here!

John,
Thanks for taking the time to document, with pictures.
I "side-tracked" to your link here, while reading about your T-1950 restoration.
The spanner wrench you made for the toilet flange removal is first-class...

My knowledge about Sunline Campers is increasing by leaps and bounds every time I log on.

I'm going back to continue reading more on your T-1950 restoration thread now.

Thanks for sharing,
-Bob
__________________
RPC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 11:41 AM   #17
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,643
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC View Post
A lot of good info shared here!

John,
Thanks for taking the time to document, with pictures.
I "side-tracked" to your link here, while reading about your T-1950 restoration.
The spanner wrench you made for the toilet flange removal is first-class...

My knowledge about Sunline Campers is increasing by leaps and bounds every time I log on.
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the good words. Much appreciated.

Oh yes, we "all" learn something new all the time here on Sunline Owners Club. And the learning ranges all over the place. From a really nice new camping location, camping critters doing strange things to your camper..., the tech'y stuff about break and fix on the camper, things about your truck and hitch, to members modifications and the list goes on. You miss a few days and you can be reading a good long time to catch up....

Thanks

John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2017, 10:42 PM   #18
Moderator
 
Sunline Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 6,155
SUN #123
Sunline Fan is an unknown quantity at this point
I wish I had seen this thread sooner John. My '98 was also threaded on both ends. Reason I knew that is because the toilet was leaking out underneath, and that connection pipe had split into two pieces. Pulled the toilet out, unscrewed the flange, and it lifted right out, with the remaining part still on the tank.

After getting the rest out, I measured it, and the local RV dealer had a match. IIRC, there were two different lengths, with this being the shorter of the two. Reassembly was a snap.

Some land whale must have been sitting on that one, because not only was that pipe cracked, the hinge for the toilet cover was broken off too.
__________________

__________________
2007 T-286SR Cherry/Granola, #6236, original owner, current mileage: 9473.8 (as of 6/18/21)
1997 T-2653 Blue Denim, #5471
1979 12 1/2' MC, Beige & Avocado, #4639
Past Sunlines: '97 T-2653 #5089, '94 T-2251, '86 T-1550, '94 T-2363, '98 T-270SR
Sunline Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! Repair to black water tank on sunline 2352 rv trailer Henrysimonds Repairs and Maintenance 1 09-01-2016 12:38 PM
Fill fresh tank from city water connection EMD_Driver Modifications 6 12-28-2014 05:13 PM
need black tank vent diagram/info for 1350 noralee Repairs and Maintenance 3 12-15-2014 03:33 PM
Toilet/Black Tank Issue Buffalo Man Sunline Community 12 08-15-2014 11:02 AM
Black water tank help!!! Mylyn Repairs and Maintenance 3 08-06-2014 07:55 PM


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sunline RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:34 AM.


×