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Old 07-10-2010, 07:34 AM   #1
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Tire blow-out and now the clean-up....

Just came back from a "tour of NC" visiting family. Alot of driving/towing. Made a pass thru the Blue Ridge Parkway and stayed at Big Meadows on the way home, very nice!

Anyways, about 75 miles from home we had a tire blow-out. Didnt even know it until I heard the rim scraping on the road. Luckily there was a rest area right there so was able to get to a safe area to change out tire. Which was a real challange as the tread wrapped around the axel and knotted/molded in such a way I had to cut it off. Not easy with a small wood saw cutting thru the metal reinforcment. Note to all who read this post...throw a hack saw, or at least a hack saw blade in your toolbox. I took 2 hours to get back on the road, after being on the road for 10 hours allready.

So, thats the story, now my question. Any reccomendations for removing all the tire rubber from the side of the TT? Luckily there is no damage from the tire tread flying before it wrapped the axel, but it left alot of marking. Any suggestions?

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Old 07-10-2010, 07:48 AM   #2
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Joe.....

Glad you didn't have more damage!

I believe I'd first try "Goof-Off" or (as 2nd choice) "Goo-Gone" on the rubber. I'd not use anything with acetone in it, as it tends to soften and mar the plastic and/or paint.

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Old 07-10-2010, 09:01 AM   #3
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Joe, you may have some success with mineral spirits (paint thinner). It should not be a problem on the fender or the awning arm or the water heater door.

But test it first before using it on the skin of the trailer. I've used it to remove pine sap and other nasties from the skin of my 2453, but it was a small amount and very little rubbing.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:38 AM   #4
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Boy Joe that is a bummer…. WOW. And yes I will add the hack saw. Thanks. Never thought of that and there are other things one can do with it too now that one thinks about it.

I’ll second to NOT use acetone on the aluminum siding. It will dissolve the Krystal kote and you will be looking at silver….

However it will be OK on the plastic but I do not know if it will cut the rubber stuck on mess.

Mineral sprits is OK on the white aluminum and has not affected my white siding/alum trim. I had to use it to take some Eternabond off with. It has more oil in it so it does not seem as aggressive

Franks suggestion on the Goo Gone might work. But I would be cautious on the aluminum, test and see how it goes slow.

Now to the tire…..

Any ideas on what went wrong? Did you know for sure it was OK in pressure somewhere before the trip? And was it at max side wall pressure? And how old was it?

A heads up. Once 1 tire goes out the other one on that side is in serious overload. Don’t know how far you went since you could not feel it but it may have been affected. It is common to have 1 blow out then a few hundred miles later a 2nd one. I do not know of a magic formula on how long and how hard you can run in overload before the problem gets ya.

Good luck and let us know what cleaner works as this will come up again for someone else. Hopefully not me….

Thanks

John
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:04 AM   #5
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Joe,

Glad to see you didn't have more damage and especially that a rest area was near. I always have a fear of not having a safe place to pull over away from the fast moving vehicles when you need to.
I think you already got good information on what to use to remove the rubber.

It looks like the tread may have separated & then from riding on it finally blew out. I had a 12" or so piece of tread separate from one of my 4 tires on my boat trailer a few yrs. ago. I never knew it untill I got home. It did NOT lose any air. I don't know how long I rode on it. The tires were app.6 years old with very low miles & with the correct air in them. I then replaced all 4 tires.

Like JohnB asked: "Any ideas on what went wrong? Did you know for sure it was OK in pressure somewhere before the trip? And was it at max side wall pressure? And how old was it?"
That would be very helpfull information for all to know.
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:18 PM   #6
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Thanks all for the replies! I tried black streak remover on it and it totally removed it from all the metal areas, and worked ok on the plastic but more work is needed. I'll try a little mineral spirits first (I have some already) on a test area of the plastic and let you know how it works, if that doesn’t I buy some goo gone and try it and report back on the results as well.

What do I think caused the blow-out?

First the trailer is a 2005 and the tires are probably 2004 manufacture. They are in excellent shape, like new. The previous owners never towed it and almost never used the TT. It was on a seasonal site from 05 to 09. The tires were covered so very little UV ever hit them until I bought it last year. They are Mission Radials ST225/75R15 load range D. I did check pressures before the trip and additional times over the 10 days were gone. Pressures were good and consistent though-out the whole trip. I run 55 psi cold, I do not max. to 60. I also do visual inspection every time I stop of the tires, hitch, doors, etc. including what I call a punch test of each tire to be sure they all feel and sound the same (its a farmers way of checking tires in a hurry)

Second, my opinion/guess on the cause. I believe the primary cause was some bridge construction I just went through. I hit a metal expansion joint that went all the way across the highway and very exposed. It was on a slight curve around a bend and that tire took all the force...I felt it. I think as luvrque suggested it cut the tread and thus lead to the blow-out. Luckily it was a construction zone, 45 MPH with the concrete barriers, cause the barriers bounced the rim grinding back so I heard it right away. I estimate from the time I hit the bridge, figured something was wrong, and came to a stop was 1 - 2 miles @ 45 MPH. Funny thing is I thought I was dragging a trunnion bar, so actually was relieved it was a tire and not a hitch problem.

I also believe the tires became too hot and weakened the rubber. Not a scientific belief but it was almost 100 degrees all day, and the pavement was way hotter. We were at about 8 hours of moving time (2 hours non-moving) which added to the heat on the tires, and we went from the crazy hills/curves of the Blue Ridge Mountains through the same in the Allegany Mountains, which again stressed the rubber. I think this because every stop when I would check the hubs for heat and the tires for pressure, the rubber was extremely hot, more than usual.
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:30 PM   #7
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Your tires are under inflated. You should be running those tires at 65psi.
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:38 PM   #8
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Joe....

Regardless of tire appearance/visible wear, I believe that at 5 years it's time to bite the bullet & replace them....and to keep them inflated to max recommended capacity thereafter.

I don't know of ANYONE who actually has worn out a trailer thru normal tread wear. I admit that I tend to think of tires as cheap life insurance.

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Old 07-10-2010, 05:01 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nasa42a View Post
Joe....

Regardless of tire appearance/visible wear, I believe that at 5 years it's time to bite the bullet & replace them....and to keep them inflated to max recom ended capacity thereafter.

I don't know of ANYONE who actually has worn out a trailer thru normal tread wear. I admit that I tend to think of tires as cheap life insurance.

Frank
Frank,

I see you had or have a QUE, did you change the tires on it, if so what ones did you buy?
The ones on mine were made the 3rd.week of Nov.in 2005 They are Mission steel belted radials Load range C max pres.50 lbs. They have only been out of the barn app. 7 mos. total. Tread is VG. I run 48lbs. cold pres.
BUT like you said cheap insurance. I am going to buy new ones BEFORE my next trip.

Many years ago I and many others I knew used trailer tires (boat & TT) just like any other tires till the tread was low or signs of cracking showed up. That was to the age of 10 or 15 yrs. sometimes & without problems.... But then again for some of those yrs. we did not have seatbelts etc.... Much different times I guess.

Does anyone have ANY advice on what to buy or not to buy..
Did anyone with a QUE without tire problems buy new tires yet ?
Also does Anybody not feel the tires should be changed after 5 yrs ?
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:34 PM   #10
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Joe......

We did have a Que for just a bit less than 2 years (but 25,000+ miles). Tried to be fair to the Mission tires. Had one puncture (successfully repaired/plug & patched) early on. Utimately had to replace them due an axle problem (axle also had to be replaced) that wore the inner tread belt down to the steel cord w/in a few thousand miles. Replaced them with Goodyear Marathons.

At present, we have about 16,000+ miles on the Goodyear Marathons that came on the Hi-Lo. They've been troublefree, and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. My feeling is that any of the big-name tire companies (Goodyear, Michelin, B F Goodrich, Cooper) would probably be the manufacturers who would most pay attention to the quality control in their contracted overseas factories (my current TT's tires were made in Indonesia).

Construction quality aside, careful attention to tire inflation appears to have a great deal to do with tire life/prospective tire troubles.

Frank
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Old 07-10-2010, 06:38 PM   #11
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Mike...65 psi??? I did error in my earlier post, max cold psi is 65 not 60, but I should run at max pressure? I have run at max 65 psi before and didn’t like how it felt/handled? Found 55 to feel the best, but I didn’t know that on the TT I should run max psi??? Please advise as I must plead ignorance here?

As for the age of current tires and replacement of all tires with new....yes I am deciding what to do? I knew those were getting up there in age and was hoping to get this year out of them, BUT, now that this has happened perhaps now is the time. I need to replace one (the blown one) so should replace all of them including the spare with the same make/vintage? I run Goodyear tires on the TV and my car and have had very positive experience. Goodyear Marathons are TT tires? Are they ok?
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Old 07-10-2010, 07:44 PM   #12
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We also have Goodyear Marathons on our trailer. They are three years old now and have more than 20,000 miles on them, a good percentage on dirt roads. We have had no problems. I run them at 5 pounds under max reccomended pressure, check tire pressure before every big run and visually check the tires at each stop during the day, touching each for temperature. I do this to the TV as well.

On our tow vehicle we run Bridgestones.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:50 PM   #13
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Yes, the Marathon is a trailer radial from Goodyear.

You should run trailer tires at the max pressure listed on the tire. They are designed to be run at that, as long as the tires aren't overloaded.

I have had a lot of luck with the Goodyears in the past, and I intend to replace my Missions with that when the time comes. I use is so infrequently and it sits inside all the rest of the time, so I hope to get another year or two out of them. If I do lose one in the meantime, I would replace them all then.

One thing that's worthy to note here is since you lost the one tire, the other tire on that side was probably stressed a lot and would probably fail soon anyway. So if you were to just replace one tire right now, be aware that one may go soon too.

Jon
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Old 07-11-2010, 01:02 PM   #14
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Load Inflation Table

Joe, according to load inflation tables, your tires are not under inflated at 55 psi on a 264SR which has a GVWR of 8600 lb. An ST225/75R15 LRD is able to carry 2270 lb. at 55 psi. As long as you're not overloaded, and considering 1000 lb. of your GVWR is actually on the tongue, you do have a considerable margin.

However...
1. You should not play with load inflation tables unless you know exactly what your combination weighs at each axle. It's not just a matter of lowering pressure to get a better ride.
2. Heat--mostly caused by under inflation and/or speed--is the most common cause of tire failure. An under inflated tire flexes more and creates more heat which is harder to shed on a really hot day. Ditto for high speed.
3. A trailer tire that is getting on to 5 years in age is approaching the end of its life--especially for high speed long distance travel. Yours are at least 6 years and...
4. A tire that has sat on the ground for a couple of years without any rotation or proper inflation checks likely has a very weak spot in the sidewall. Even covered tires will age and dry out. Rotation and flexing of the tire on the road moves oils from the inside of the rubber to the outside and helps keep the tire in decent condition as it ages.

I would buy at least 4 new tires and inflate them to 60 psi. A stiffer sidewall will help resist sway, although I know you've said before that you have a really stable rig and I sure do like that 4WS. My gut says 55 is just too low especially for running 65 mph on a really hot day. I would rather find a happy psi and stick with it all year than mess around with adding or subtracting. And, if you don't know the weight, by all means weigh the rig or use 65 psi. You wouldn't be the first RVer carrying way more weight than they thought. Read through the links on the Goodyear website--there is lots of additional information on RV tires.

Trailer tires from major manufacturers are becoming really scarce. Cooper quit making them in the last year and Goodyear is just about the only game in town, but at least they have brought many sizes back to "made in USA". Use tirerack.com for research and pricing info even if you don't buy from them. They have an excellent website.

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Old 07-11-2010, 08:55 PM   #15
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Hi Joe

I finally found this for you. Been looking for a day now on and off. I know we have discussed here on SOC the topic of tire pressure and brand a number of times.

See this post. I linked this page I made a post there verses repeating it all here. But go back to page 1 as there is other good info in there too. It talks about Bias verses radial and about trailer tires age, and tire inflation on trailer tires.

http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f71/bias-versus-radial-9476-4.html

And here are 2 links that have good info

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/infoTrailerTireFacts.dos

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/direct/brochure/info/tmpInfoSeparationAnxiety.jsp

I have the same size tires as you, but a heavier camper. ST225/75R15 8 ply and rated at 2,540# at 65 psi load ratings. And in my case the 4 tires can take my full GVWR of 10,000#. Sunline was good that way as they sized the axles, tires and suspension to take the entire weight of the camper even though the truck holds up the tongue and the axles should never approach that limit.

I have weighed my camper and on my floor plan the slide side is heavier then the non slide side. The axle loads when I have to tow with full fresh water are 8,028# or 7,680# no fresh and full WD engaged. My fresh tank is over the axle thank goodness as I do not need any more tongue weight.

I do run max cold side wall pressure which is 65 psi. And I did that too on the T2499 which was 50 psi. I check each trip and reset as needed. Since the camper is not evenly loaded left to right I know I do not have to worry I’m on the edge using an inflation table. The tires also run cooler and are stiffer to help in anti sway control measures. I did not create this, I found it after much research into TT tires from multiple sources. But I do practice it.

Looking at some possible weights, your camper has an 8,600# GVWR and the T264SR can have a 1,100# tongue weight as an average. Well fully loaded 8,600 – 1,100 = 7,500 then add back approx 350# from WD and axle weights might be 7,850#. So if you ever load your camper to the max, your tires will be as loaded as mine. Have you been able to get a scaled weight on your yet?

And then there is this aging tire issue and the duration of capacity with age. I have not yet seen a load inflation table that talks about trailer tire age. Yet there are now many articles talking about 5 years being it for trailer tires and even automotive is getting in on it. So if the tire strength is changing over time a load inflation table does not do one much good in a trailer situation. So another yes to running max side wall cold pressures.

I researched this for a good amount of time and came up with Denman ST Express Radials made in Mexico. They are now into there 2nd season. At that time in Denman’s history they stated in there warranty they would not honor any tire past 5 years old regardless if used or tread. They used that meaning…. So if they will not warrant a 5 year old tire if not even used, then there must be something to this 5 year deal. Unfortunately the business sold and the ST Express radial went by the way side and a new China tire replaced it…. ERRRR and then I think it was this spring they went out of business…. So Denman is no longer and option. I was lucky I got them when I did. Oh and I looked today there web site is still up even thought I’m pretty sure they are out of business and the new owners changed the warranty. But is still only lists 60 months.

Another heads up, many tire dealer have zero issues selling you 2 year or older tires. Well if we are suppose to change then at 5 years you just lost 2 because they sold you old ones. I really had to push/ask/demand to get all 5 of mine less then 1 year old. I flat out told them I can wait a week or more, just I will not buy a tire older then 1 year or I’ll go to the next guy. They found them some where 6 months old and 2 I think 8 months but if not I would have had 2 year old tires on day one. So heads up. If you do not ask odds may not be in your favor.

Goodyear Marathons went off shore to China a while ago and the issues went up as well. They have since I have heard come back to the US. Many have had good luck with the US made Marathon ST trailer tire. So if you are going this route, look for the US ones.

From the offshore ones, Maxxis seems to be the better in check quality control. I have had 2 sets of them and not an issue.

The Missons you have, many have had problems.

So for me the next time tires come up in a few years, Goodyear US made ones if I can get them or Maxxis will be on the list. That is if things do not change once again.

You stated your rig had some stability issues when you aired up the tires. Part of this may be WD hitch set and truck tire pressure. If you want take out a post on that once you get your new tires we can help you get the rig stable with max side wall pressure.

Good luck and hope this helps

John
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Old 07-12-2010, 06:36 AM   #16
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First and foremost as always everyone here is so gracious with the help/info…THANK YOU!

I must admit I am a bit embarrassed as to my TT trailer pressures. I need to do some more reading, but I am on the right track now. John, the max pressure still handled fine I just did like the stiff ride. I guess I just need get use to it. I actually knew the tires I had were old and needed to get replaced soon…I was hoping the get this year out of them, oh well it’s only money…right. I will replace all 5, going to call my local Goodyear dealer today about the Marathons.

I have never weighed, have always wanted to but haven’t made the time to do so yet. I need to, I know I am on the heavy side.

One more question….sorry….on the TV, I run my tires to recommendations on the truck door. 50 psi front axle and 80 psi rear axle. Should I be at 80 psi on the front as well? I have Goodyear Wrangler Pro Grade Load Range E.
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Old 07-12-2010, 08:55 AM   #17
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Joe,
You definitely don't want 50 or 80 on the front. I have the same truck, but 2wd. The factory sticker and psi is exactly what gets you to max front and rear GAWR. In other words the factory is using load inflation tables for LT tires. Even though 50 psi on the front is within spec it will give you a soft mushy, poor handling tire. Front pressure is a bit of a black art. I used to run the factory Bridgestones at 60, but moved them up to 65 on John's recommendation and found that pretty much eliminated semi truck blow by. The rear ones I run at 75 psi--using load inflation tables--which is well within a margin of safety for the load I carry.

Our truck is not a daily driver and when we drive solo it is most often on a long camping trip. So I leave these pressures in all the time. It does really firm up the ride though. If it was a daily driver I would air down to maybe 55-60 psi on all 4 tires. If you do that you need a good air compressor to bring them back up as the small 12V jobs will need to run too long and overheat.

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Old 07-12-2010, 09:52 PM   #18
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Hi Joe

Don’t beat yourself up too bad. We all make errors and we all learn from them. The good news is we have Sunline Club to talk about this and help each other out. Cuts down on the learning curve big time….

Truck tire pressure. The door sticker pressures line up with the truck axle ratings plus a little margin above that. Since you have LT E range and a 3/4 ton suspension the TV air pressure sets a little different then 1/2 ton or 1 ton.

Here is what applies to yours that I can see that I picked up from my own and helping others. I had a 2500 Suburban, 130” wheel base and I towed the T2499 with it any where I wanted to go. The truck and camper with the Reese DC was truly rock solid and even in 35 to 40MPH cross winds. I had Steel Tex tires on it the same size I’m sure as yours. The 2500 Burb and your front end are about the same, GM 3/4 ton torsion bar.

I ran the door sticker, 80 psi rear and 50 psi front and had zero issues with the Steel Tex. Life was good for a few years until I needed new tires. Researched and researched and landed on Michlean LTX. Thought I would get premium tires. The day I left the tire shop that truck ran as smooth as it ever did..

Then the 1st trip out we had a 150 mile tow to camp. Wind was blowing good heading west to IN. Holy cow the truck was into the early onset of sway. I remember Cindy saying, “What was that!” The DC came out of the lock and it felt like the back of the truck just shifted sideways. Semis where not a problem but hard wind gusts, every one of then would do the same thing. Pulled over to a rest stop and thought something in the hitch let loose. Nope. So I wiped the Vaseline off the cams and back out we went. The lack of Vaseline helps a little but the truck was still not stable. That was a not a fun 3 1/2 hr tow. After that trip I rechecked everything on the hitch, receiver and WD. It was all still dead on. But yet each trip out a wind gust did the same thing.

After some more digging I ran into another buddy with a 2500 Suburban and LTX. He had no good words to use for them and he was towing with a Hensley. So now I suspected the tires. And a tire pressure experiment began. I started out up’ing the front to 60 psi. Immediately there was a global shift in stability better. Still not as good as the Steel Tex but a whole lot better. So then I kept going up in 5 psi moves. 65, no difference, 70 psi and 75 psi in the front made the Burb jump left to right when I hit a bump. That bounce is no good. So back down to 65 psi. So the rear at 80 and the front at 65 was what I ran until I sold the truck. It still was not as good as the Steel Tex as I knew how close to the edge I was. 130” WB and LTX do not go together. Cushy ride and towing do not go together even on LT E range tires.

The part that was tricky to figure out was it felt like the rear of the truck was shifting where in fact the front could not hold itself and was flexing in the side walls. If the front gives way then the back will get pushed by the TT.

Now wheel base has a lot to do with this too. I have a buddy with a 7.3 Power stroke F250 pulling a 30ft Sunnybrook running LTX. 80psi rear, 70 psi front. He swears by them while I was swearing at them…. Also had a buddy last summer and a V10 F250 with a 32 foot Skyline and a Hensley hitch no less with LTX. He had the Steel Tex before too amd ran his front end at 50 psi on the Steel tex and that did not translate over to the LTX. The front end even with the Hensley was all soggy at 50. I cautioned him and he found the same thing. He aired them up and then OK.

So on yours, I would go 80 psi rear with the larger camper and 55 or 60 in the front as a stating place if you have any stability issues. Then go up 5 psi at a time if you need to. If the front starts to bounce left to right then that pressure is too much go back down 5 psi. I do not know your brand tire and it may act different.

I know that was a long story to a 1 paragraph answer but now you know why and what is going on to look for.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Hope this helps

John

PS on the TT bounce, maybe some day think about the EZ flex equalizer upgrade and even better, shocks.
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Old 07-13-2010, 02:15 PM   #19
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m4myka is an unknown quantity at this point
How ironic. I just joined the owners club today and posted a question on my water line mishap. Unfortunately, on my way to my weekend trip that revealed my water problem, I too had a blowout with similar results, i.e. "blacklash" marks, some denting and a broken corner of my fender flare.
Long story short, I had a blowout last year for the 1st time in nine (9) years of perioiodically travelling with my TT. I thought it was caused by underinflation, but was now convinced (and worrying days before the trip) that probably unapparent dry rot took place. Since I had 300 miles to go, I decided I pushed my luck too much and called and found a tire shop nearby who, within two (2) hours had three (3) new tires delivered and installed them in less than an hour thereafter. Along with my new tire from last year, it was a reassuring trip. Even though I got close to 10 years out of those old tires, I'll opt to replace these new ones in 5 years.
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Old 07-31-2010, 05:01 AM   #20
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jsms264
Update......

As for the removal of the black marks on the molding...tried alot of different products (black streak remover, bug and tar remover, paint thinner, mineral spirits, goo gone, and awesome) and nothing worked 100% on the plastic. The metal cleaned up easily with black streak remover. On the plastic maybe 75% of the black streak is gone after much effort. All in all not so bad!

As for the tires, I went with 5 new Goodyear Marathons, dated 24th week of 2010, and "made in USA". Air pressure is at about 62 psi cold. Tried the 65 psi and the TT just bounces too much for my comfort...seems to move around alot side to side, or be more active back there at max psi. So I dropped to 62 psi and way better, based on a short trip last weekend. Also upped the truck pressure close to max psi. Leaving tomorrow morning for 5 hour trip to Fish Creek Pond in Adirondacks for the week, so we'll see how well everything proforms on a longer trip.

Thank you all for the help with tires and clean-up!

"see ya on the road"
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