Small Generator Recommendations / What Generator Do you use? - Page 2

mainah · 04-25-2014, 05:20 PM

Oh after 5 days there is no doubt they need to be recharged but they are still with in reason. Even if it was really cold and the furnace ran for 6 hours they are only about 6 amps so 36 AH.The generator is enough to run the charger at max charge. Most DVM's now are capable of 10 amps DC.

pwb01 · 04-26-2014, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim44646

There isn't any thing more annoying than sitting outside for peace and quit and hearing an open frame generator running all day. When more than one person is running them you might as well forget it and stay home.

You got that right! For that reason I wouldn't use anything but a quiet Honda or Yamaha myself. The Champions are even a little loud and the Power House brand is tolerable. I have two Honda 2000's so I can power the A/C if needed. (One Honda 3000 is too heavy to be handy).

Here's a lesson learned. A single Honda will run 6 or 8 hours on a tank. If you're in a situation where you are allowed to run a generator continually and need to run the A/C they each empty the one gallon tank in about 3 hours. Not very practical for continual use at the rate of 16 gallons in 24 hours.

2manystoves · 05-08-2014, 07:50 PM

Yamha 2400ISHC...or 2x Yamaha 2000's

I've done quite a bit of research so far and decided that for all the features / portability i'm looking for, I'm down to these two options.

My big problem: the 2400 is less expensive than 2 2000W units, HOWEVER, (very) Mixed reviews on whether it will start the 13.5K BTU A/C (see amazon reviews). My calculations (not perfect) suggest 29 amp draw on start with fan motor running. This is near or at the limit of the 2400 genny according to reviews (theoretically over the max load according to yamamahaha) , although blue brand claims it is designed to power RV A/C at 13.5K btu. not sure why such mixed reviews on whether it will perform this task. seems like I should have no problem with two of the smaller units (but will cost more $$$). Dont want any more weight / maintenance / refilling / aggravation than absolutely necessary (dont we all

)

Please let me know what you all here think about my dilemma. Also would be willing to rent this genny just to test but none of the major rental centers seem to carry anything this "specialized" for rent. Appreciate your advice.

Thanks Everyone,
~2many

**JohnB** · 05-08-2014, 08:58 PM

I did fair amount of sorting out my system and measuring. Here is the starting amps max on a 15K BTU Dometic

When cleaned and running steady state it is this

I can actually run the AC "only" on my Honda 2000 but it a jury rig and the genny does not like this long term.

I have to shut down all AC loads in the camper including the power converter. I'm running the 12 VDC control off the battery direct. I start the fan by itself first, then allow the compressor to start. This minimizes the inrush of the fan and the compressor combined.

While it does work, it is not practical or sustainable.

The folks giving the reviews on the Yamaha 2400, Did any of them give details of what is running on 120VAC in the camper? If the fridge is on electric, is the battery drained and the converter pumping out a lot of amp? For sure, running the fridge on gas only and having a fully charged battery to start with will minimize the AC draw.

While having the ability to run the AC is a good thing, where ones camps and can you run it all the time on a genny? In our case even if I had the dual, 2000 units we cannot run the Genny for more than 3 hours at a time. We do use the Turbo Max fan and a good power converter to recharge the batteries at least back to 90% off the genny.

There is no right or wrong answer to this. It "depends" on where and how you camp.

Hope this helps and good luck

John

mainah · 05-09-2014, 05:43 AM

Wow John that's 4440 watts. Not surprising for a 15K unit. I know a few people have run the 13K's with a 2K Honda by changing the start cap but it's still against the wall even running kind of counter productive for an inverter generator if it has to run wide open. What does the voltage look like? I'll bet it takes a nose dive and of course then the current climbs. I have no A/C in the camper but I do have a fantastic fan pretty much any thing other than 95* high humidity days I'm OK with just the fan granted I'm up here in the north country.

Tod Osier · 05-09-2014, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

I did fair amount of sorting out my system and

There is no right or wrong answer to this. It "depends" on where and how you camp.

Hope this helps and good luck

John

As John says, "it depends" and that is why I added the altitude caveat. I've used the Yamaha 2400 a lot with my 13.5K, but I doubt it would run at 8K feet. The question is would you need it at 8K feet. All my really high camping has been early or late season, so ac isn't needed. As with all gas engines, they loose a lot of ability to produce power at altitude. You can change the jet to a smaller one to get better running at altitude, but the physics (chemistry) of there being less o2 to burn can't be overcome, so by changing the jet you can have a cleaner burning, but less powerful generator at altutude. You have to call Yamaha and talk to a tech to get the part numbers. I can look them up if you buy one. Takes 5 minutes to drop the bowl and pull the jet. This is true of all the generators.

From what I've seen adn read, you are pretty much good to go with the 2400 if you know how to manage your loads at most elevations. I don't trust all the reviews that say it doesn't work, since it depends on what else they are trying to run and the conditions. Is their converter in bulk mode? they have all the lights on at the same time as the micro trying to turn over the AC? We can run the AC (maybe not start the AC) with the micro at the same time. We have never had to manage the loads with the 2400 and the AC, like shut the converter off. I don't turn the AC on with the microwave, but I've done it the other way around to check.

Tod Osier · 05-09-2014, 07:55 AM

Couple things... as I said above, I'd probably get 2 hondas to do it again, especially if I was a little older or shorter or out of shape. You talk about renting one - I think you would learn a ton just picking one up and pretending to heft it into the bed of your truck - the 2000s are like feathers and although I haven't done it, I'd expect that although the combined weight of the hondas is greater, it would be easier to carry one honda in each hand than one yamaha in both (I've always fit the lazy man carrying the biggest load category though)

'nuther thing is the 2400 is good when running perfectly. I don't know where the break off point if you get the carb junked up and it is running a bit poorly would 2 hondas result in a better performance if they were both crudded up? - it is more combined watts. They would result in a higher bill to have 2 carb jobs done for sure.

mainah · 05-09-2014, 10:48 AM

I have never look at the Honda's carb but the Onan's have an altitude adjust external to the carb. No matter what you do you'll still lose about 3% of the engine power output per 1,000 feet.

2manystoves · 05-09-2014, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tod Osier

From what I've seen adn read, you are pretty much good to go with the 2400 if you know how to manage your loads at most elevations. I don't trust all the reviews that say it doesn't work, since it depends on what else they are trying to run and the conditions. Is their converter in bulk mode?

Thank you for responses so far. I have a '95...have not fiddled with the converter....would I even have bulk mode capability?

2manystoves · 05-09-2014, 08:48 PM

Also had one other thought....since my Dometic is a '94 model 57912 (uses R-22) am I less efficient to the point that the 2400 would not be able to start it? Yamaha specifically states in their brochure "able to start most EFFICIENT 13.5K RV A/C units." This is my first TT...have the A/C's really gotten much more "efficient" since then, requiring less starting amps? From what I've seen, not particularly....

**JohnB** · 05-09-2014, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainah

Wow John that's 4440 watts. Not surprising for a 15K unit. I know a few people have run the 13K's with a 2K Honda by changing the start cap but it's still against the wall even running kind of counter productive for an inverter generator if it has to run wide open. What does the voltage look like? I'll bet it takes a nose dive and of course then the current climbs. I have no A/C in the camper but I do have a fantastic fan pretty much any thing other than 95* high humidity days I'm OK with just the fan granted I'm up here in the north country.

I did not mention, I flipped the Honda manually into hi speed before the test. I have little to no faith it would sense, kick in from eco mode and then run in high without stalling it. When DW uses the microwave, it kicks in from eco mode and jumps to high speed and you can see it, that load kicked it pretty hard.

Also to note, the 37 amps is both the fan and compressor. I did not do that with the Honda, I had the fan running already. That only took 28 amps with fan running and the compressor starting.... A bit better but still pushing the 2,000 watt unit into an area I would not want to run it at for hours on end.

I did not measure the voltage drop, I'm sure it takes a momentary nose dive when compressor starts even at 28 amps instantaneous.

Here is the whole thread those pics came from with the rest of the test.

http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...ics-10405.html

Again, while it worked, it is not practical or would I think of sustaining it. If I ever camp out in AZ etc during the summer, I'll get the 2nd Honda to parallel it. Here on the east cost, the Turbo Max fan will make due, for now anyway.

mainah · 05-10-2014, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2manystoves

Also had one other thought....since my Dometic is a '94 model 57912 (uses R-22) am I less efficient to the point that the 2400 would not be able to start it? Yamaha specifically states in their brochure "able to start most EFFICIENT 13.5K RV A/C units." This is my first TT...have the A/C's really gotten much more "efficient" since then, requiring less starting amps? From what I've seen, not particularly....

R22 is typical commercial refrigerant. Here is something you might consider--http://www.modmyrv.com/2009/05/27/rv-air-conditioner-hard-start-capacitor
The biggest hit comes when it is really hot outside and the A/C head pressure is high.

OhhWell · 05-14-2014, 10:29 AM

Amazon.com : Champion Power Equipment No.75531i Inverter Generator, 3100-watt : Patio, Lawn & Garden

mainah · 05-14-2014, 04:27 PM

Champion have been pushing the RV market you might notice they all ready have 30 RV outlets in a lot of their generators some thing Honda just caught on to. I know nothing about their inverter generators as to how quiet and reliable they are. Noise figures are deceiving a gain of only 3 Db is twice the noise level.

pwb01 · 05-14-2014, 06:47 PM

Okay, the final count

Honda 2000 - 2
Yamaha 2400 - 2
Champion - 2
Chinese knock off - 1
Honda 3000 - 1
2 Honda 2000 - 3
Solar panel - 1

I actually bought the Honda 3000 and after thinking about it overnight, cancelled the order and bought the 2, 2000's (one being the companion) for the same price. At 130# the 3000 would be too heavy and 4000 watts are better than 3000. I bring both only when I think I'll need the AC.

bunjin · 05-15-2014, 10:00 AM

low db with higher pitch is harder on the ears than higher db and lower pitch.

I say this from a comfort/discomfort level, not from a physical actual harm level.

Finger nails across a chalk board has an annoying pitch, but not a high db.

I learned the db/pitch relationship when working for a manufacturer of swimming pools, filters and pumps. A story for another time maybe.