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Old 10-12-2009, 09:01 PM   #1
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Slide Room Wouldn’t Extend – sheared pins

Friday, just a couple hours before we were to leave to go camping, we were unable to open our slide.
We ended up taking it to the dealership to get it fixed. The dealership was great, got us in and out in less then 2 hours and we were still able to go camping..

But I wanted to share our experience with everyone that has a slide so you could check to see if something similar is starting to happen to you.

The problem was that our bracket bent and sheared off the pins. Unfortunately I did not get a picture of the bent bracket before we went to the dealership.
But the picture below shows the fixed bracket and new pins they welded in.


The problem / fix (from the dealership’s paper work) was:
Problem: Found ears on motor broken off and mounting bracket bent.
Fix: Removed and straightened bracket. Fabricated new ears and welded to motor shaft.

The dealership said it’s a common occurrence that they’ve seen similar problems often.

They said the problem occurred from over doing when extending and retracting the slide room.

I though I would share this with everyone so if you have a slide room you can check your bracket to see if it’s starting to show any signs of stress or bending.

Hopefully my buddy JohnB will reply to the post with a much more detailed explanation of what happen, why and how it happened, and what to do to avoid it.

Here are some additional pictures of the fix:






Hutch
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Old 10-13-2009, 10:12 PM   #2
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Hutch

Sorry about your slide system. Bummer for sure. I have been on a quest the last few months trying to figure out the Sunline slide systems as opposed to other brands and why mine has transit bars and yours and others does not. I keep getting closer to knowing and some day the mystery will be solved.…. Your slide actuator break takes this learning to new heights.

My actuator is buried under the cover of my enclosed tanks. So getting fresh pics is a bit of work. However… digging in my pile of pics I now find I “might” have an early onset of your issue. Oh great….

See mine.


A close up. There is a twsit in the brackets there.




And a close up. This one now has me concerned. I saw this back when and wrote it off to just a bent sloppy job during build but there may be more to this. Both brackets have a twist in them. I'm sure they are not made that way. It looks like the brackets took a torque along the way.


The 2 L brackets are twisted and the one on the left is even bent out.

Some questions now come up as to why did yours break off and why is mine bent the way it is?? Good questions. Maybe our other Sunline friends here with slide models can go under theirs and take some pics to see how much of an issue this is or isn’t. I don’t know if mine has progressed since that pic back on 11-18-2007 or basically right after we bought the TT. We sure have used it a lot since then. So if this is a problem I would expect mine to be more bent. Oh great.

Now some questions to all slide model users of at least 2003 and forward or maybe before if you have the Lippert slide system. My 2004 TT was built in October 2003, so it is a Lippert 2003 vintage and it uses transit bars or is declared in the manual to use them.

I will say this, the Lippert system looks like a good design but there are some unanswered questions on how it is suppose to be setup.

On mine when the unit extends the slide, the system ratchets when it gets to full extension. The dealer told me this was on purpose of having an overload on the way out in case a tree or something else is in the way. This is a good feature.

On the retract of the slide, I have no ratchet action. The motor just sort of grunts when the slide is full in and the motor stops turning. What does every one eleses do for extend and retract?

OK analyzing this some more, what is suppose to shut down the motor when the slide comes in? Does the motor system have a current limiting device, a ratchet overload like on the extend stroke, a limit switch, or nothing the motor just runs out of power?

This is sort of like a power tongue jack, just bigger.

See this pic of mine. It shows the stop can. The stop can is a mechanical hard stop for retract. What relationship is that stop can suppose to be in for motor shut off? If there is a limit switch for full retract inside the gear casing by the motor, then that stop can should be hitting the frame just after the switch trips. If there is no full retract limit switch then we are back to what stops the motor? A Current limiting device or it ran out of power or is it supopse to ratchet?


If the system is not shutting down like it should on retract, the motor mount brackets are taking all the torque. And it looks like the slide actuator has more power then the trunnion studs and mounting brackets can take. This can be a problem.

Here is the online Lippert manual. http://www.lci1.com/OwnersManuals/Sl...ideout-Web.pdf

Page 11 talks about adjusting the stop can. There is only mention to the slide seals nothing with the motor drive.

Page 5 talks about holding the button until the slide is out or in and if you hold it too long, after a few seconds the system will time out and shut motor off anyway.

On Page 3 the system is declared to have a clutching system. And mine does ratchet trip on extending, just not on retracting. I do not know if it is suppose to trip in both directions.

Here is there basic system. The motor brackets take all the torque and the push pull the system has. The pins that Hutch had shear off, once they go or the bracket strips off, the slide is not moving anywhere.






Since Hutch told me his ratchets on the way out and just grunts on the retract mode, his is working like mine. I’m still questioning what is suppose to stop the motor on the retract mode. Good question. If there is any kind of limit switch for end of stroke it would almost have to be timed with the stop can. Yet the instructions say nothing about that, so the question still remains.

Here is the stop can setup


And here is the motor wiring connections. The motor leads come out of the housing not the motor directly. Any one ever had that cover off and see inside? It may be the wires just come out of the motor on the end and pass thru the gear casing. Or there is more controls inside. There is not a lot of room for much in there plus a overload clutch.


They also caution that when when performing manual operation of the slide to be carefull and not over do it. By the looks of it the manual crank goes right into the end of the ball screw and the overload clutch is not in the equation. So if it is jammed, be carefull. The mechanical advantage of this system is very large as it has to be to move the slide.

At this rate I seem to be talking myself into I need to check mine this weekend. Oh man taking that cover off again.... oh well better now then at the camp ground in the pouring rain....

Hutch any help Lippert can give on yours sure would help us here understand this. We may be able to help ourselves if we know the desired end result for setting the retract mode.

Good learning post. Thanks for sharing.

John
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Old 10-13-2009, 11:05 PM   #3
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Well I found what is inside the gear box. Just gears. No limit switch. $61.60 and you can buy the gears and overload. We have what is called the Venture system.



It's hard to tell from that image but the overload is on the end of the ball screw. Can't tell if it works in both directions from that fuzzy image.

Here is the Lippert on line store

http://store.lci1.com/shared/StoreFr...unt2=907523751

The entire motor, screw and housing is $588.70


Or just the motor and gears for $482


You do have to figure out what gear ratio and length of slide you have before ordering

Digging deeper you can even buy all the parts of the slide system like the brackets that bent.

$12.25 the long one


$12.25 the short one


Well, we can get parts at least. But still do not know what shuts down the slide on the retract motion.

John
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:50 AM   #4
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John,

Thanks for the reply, all good info.

I have a couple emails into Lippert inquiring about operational information.
If and when I get any replies, I'll post them.

In the mean time, I’ll be watching my bracket closely for any new signs of stress or bending, and will now gradually take the slide to full extension & retraction.

In the past, I don’t think we were doing anything that should have over stressed the system. When extending, we released the switch after hearing 3 – 5 clicks of the ratchet. When retracting, we released the switch 1 second or less after hearing the motor groan. So I wouldn’t think these procedures should have added any stress to the system.

It may have been something that gradually happened over time. This is our 4th season using this trailer.

Hutch
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Old 10-14-2009, 08:54 AM   #5
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My fifth wheel ratchets on extension, and groans (no ratchet) on retraction. I would offer to take pictures of mine but it's all hidden beneath the giant corrugated panel under the coach.

My bedroom slide (of a different design) does not ratchet in either direction, but I suspect none of the Sunline travel trailers have a slide design like that one.
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Old 10-14-2009, 11:59 AM   #6
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Jeff

Thanks for the note. We are now 3 with slides that ratchet on extension and just stall out on retractions. Hutch is out camping now. Lucky him….

Hopefully this weekend will cooperate with the weather and I will take my cover off and inspect as I don’t like the looks of mine after seeing Hutches. It is 20 degrees below normal this time of year here in Central Ohio…why? Good question.

When the slide extends, the only stop per say is when the slide itself comes in contact with the side of the camper. The seals get compressed and then the slide actuator ratchets and only delivers a preset amount of torque.

When the slide retracts back in, this is a different action. The slide stops because of 2 reasons, the seals touch the camper flange and the stop can on the slide system. If the overload system is suppose to be able to trip in both directions, it is not on mine. So why? It appears we are having motor stall out and the actuator is giving all it has to offer. Another good question is, is the overload suppose to trip in both directions? Mine does not in it’s present state. I’ll let you know more after I have a closer look.

Hopefully some slide SOC club member will chime in with a Lippert slide system and say, yes mine ratchets on the way out and in. OK now why?

Thanks

John
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Old 10-14-2009, 12:11 PM   #7
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OK, I'll chime in, my '07 (not sure of who made it) ratchets in both directions. In fact, the dealer told us that was how to tell it was in or out all the way. Remember from previous discussions, it also does not have transport rods.

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Old 10-14-2009, 12:36 PM   #8
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I thought mine ratchets both ways too, but I couldn't remember. Now that I know another '07 does, I'm pretty sure mine does too.

I will confirm this weekend if possible. I will have to plug it in though because I already brought the battery back home for the winter.

BTW, the '08 ratchets in neither direction

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Old 10-14-2009, 01:02 PM   #9
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Hi everyone on my 05 I do not have the lock bars, and it rachets going out but it use to also do it coming in but doesnt anymore, I was told that the battery has to be full charged with no other draw on it to have enought jucie to make it rachet coming in . I dont know if this true or not but my battery is not 4 years old the other concern is maybe my brackets are starting to bend I have never check they and maybe that has something to do with why it dosent rachet coming in Dan
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:17 PM   #10
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Ours ratchets going out, but not coming in. The motor doesn't groan when it is all the way in, it just stops.
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Old 10-14-2009, 09:46 PM   #11
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Fellow Sunline Side owners,

THANKS this helps. Any more with slides, please add your info too.

Right now we have a mixture of results with Sunnyseagull being a tie breaker, sort of. It ratchets on the way out and use to on the way in but now does not. His TT is a 2005 so it can very well be like Hutch’s and mine.

It seems the newer 2007’s of Mack and Sunline Fan ratchet in both directions. Jon when you head up north, take your camera and come back with any pics if possible. We will at least know the brand and setup. And look for any part numbers or ideally ratios you can find on the unit. There may be a difference in the gearing ratios. Does your yellow spec sheet in the Sunline manual have an part numbers of the slide system?

Also anyone else with pic’s are a great help too. You may find yours bent or hopefully not. And not would be a good thing too as that means it can be done without bending.

Mike (264SRinPA) my groan on retract is not a real load one, it is quick groan and stop. May or may not be the same as yours, it’s hard to explain the sound it happens so fast.

Ideally I’m under the camper with Cindy retracting the slide so I can tell if my twisted brackets are in the wind up direction of the slide coming in. That would help point to the bending problme when the sldie come in. If it is in the direction of going out….well that is another issue… as the overload is tripping there going out and then the brackets just can’t take the torque.

Here is my take on the voltage deal. Yes, low voltage can cause an issue and it may not create enough power to trip the clutch. However in our case, I have 2, group 27 batteries that are at 100% state of charge plus we plug into the camp ground power before the slide ever goes out. The 60 amp converter is either at 13.25, 13.65 or 14.4 volts depending on the battery needs. Low voltage is not a problem in my case.

Mine has always ratcheted on the extend. So if the system has enough power to trip the over load clutch on the way out, why isn’t it tripping it on the way in??

The internet is a wonderful thing if you have some time to search and know a little about what you want. See here for Venture Manufacturing in Dayton Ohio. An hour away from us…. This is belived to eb the same Venture system Lippert it refering to. They buy and install it in there slide units. Venture also sels customs so don't know if Venture modifies it for Lippert's application.

RV slide actuators:
http://www.venturemfgco.com/rv-slide...cessories.html

And possibly the one I have:
http://www.venturemfgco.com/docs/RVS...cal%20Data.pdf

If you want to see what the ball screw is like, see here:
http://www.venturemfgco.com/docs/850...rts%20list.pdf

And they do offer a limit switch option just we do not have that. It is a kit you can field add if you want.
http://www.venturemfgco.com/docs/Add...20Switches.pdf

They also sell the L brackets to do the mounting like Lippert uses. I will try to call them this week and talk to them about there clutch system. And I'll see if I can get Lippert tech service. The unit I would think it is suppose to overload in both directions. That has to be confirmed. If Sunline Fan’s and Mack C-85’s are both this same actuator, then there could point to a setup problem. At least on mine and most likely Hutch’s. If the motor stalls out, then it is full power and all she has each time. I really need to see the way that clutch is made on why it would not trip in the retract stroke. It’s bugging me…. If it is setup, the can stop on the slide may be part of the issue.

Well all for now.

Thanks

John
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Old 10-15-2009, 09:04 PM   #12
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Hi Fellow Sunline Slide Owners

Well I learned a lot more today then I knew yesterday. Call both Lippert service and Venture Manufacturing. Both gave good tech help. I made it to the right folks. While I have a lot more info, I still do not yet have the cause to my bent slide actuator brackets and neither Lippert or Venture knew what might cause it. Both stated the brackets are pretty heavy to bend. Well Hutch proved he had a problem and mine, well it’s not right, yet.

So this is what I now know. First is to note this is for a Venture style actuator. While a lot may be applicable, I asked directly about the Venture system. Lippert stated they do have 3 suppliers/brands of slide actuators they use.

I asked: Is the slide suppose to ratchet overload on the slide retract motion at the end of it travel? Both gave me the same answer. It is common for the system to not ratchet on the retract travel and that was declared OK. Some slides do ratchet on retract and that is OK too. It is all the way they are made and setup. H’mm so I pressed some more questions as to why.

Part of this is how the slide is setup and the way the actuator is made. On the slide extend it is common, and is in my case, for the ball screw or ACME screw drive to reach end of stroke internally in the actuator. That is a hard dead stop at an abrupt moment. That hard stop will cause the overload to trip or ratchet. Basically the actuator is setup to reach end of stroke and then the slide is adjusted/moved to compress the seals by where it stopped at the end of stroke.

This is done by the 2 jam nuts in are C shown here. So at every extend I get a ratchet trip.


On the slide retract you may not reach the end of stroke inside the actual actuator. It may be less then end of stroke and in my case appears to be. Now here Lippert told me more then what is in there manual. On the retract, the system compresses the seals it does this slowly. Our Sunlines the top of the slide touches 1st, then the bottom comes in and then that is it. The motor literally can stall out and it stops verses trip the clutch. When it stops you take your finger off the switch. I was told the stop can actually does not have to touch the frame as the frame in that area can flex. He said you bring it full in, then adjust the stop can real close to the frame and leave about a sheet of paper daylight between frame and the can. If the seals wear then the stop can helps stop them from getting over squeezed.

See here


Since you do not bottom out hard, the overload is not tripped. But you do run out of power on the motor. I asked Venture if the motor can take what we call locked rotor current constant. Which is full stalled power of the motor. They said yes. Problems do not occur unless you hold the button for like 30 to 45 seconds then heat starts to build. We let go of the button about 1 to 2 seconds after it stops so we never get to that point.

Lippert did state every slide has it’s own personality, some have more or less friction drag and they all set up a little different.

According to what the Venture tech told me there system clutch trips at about 95 to 105 in. lb of torque at the screw drive. In the world of mechanical twist, that is not a lot. 8.75 foot lb. However the mechanical advantage of the ACME screw and Ball screw is hughe. That is where it gets all it’s power.

I also asked and I can get parts from Venture for there actuator. Lippert also can sell us parts. Both told me where to go looking for the part serial numbers and the gear ratio to order the right ones.

Last night I dig some digging on RV.net for slide problems. Well it’s filled with slide problems…. But there are more brands out there then we have here and a lot of factors to go with it. Right now I’ll just stick with the Sunline slide… I will have to confirm, but I do believe the gear motor head has a metal overload clutch gear but a plastic idler gear. I saw pictures of the plastic gear stripped out of a Venture system. Don’t know what vintage it was, I’ll check mine and report back.

I also asked Lippert about transit bars and if the actuator ever released on the road. They said they have never had that problem. The gear ratios backwards is so high it does not occur. So I asked then what drives the need for transit bars? He plead the TT manufacture route. Sunline declares the need based upon the way the slide is made not due to the this slide actuator. Well at least I now know what it is not.

Hutch and I did a comparison between his 2005 and my 2004 on push at the top test. Hutch’s will not budge when in. It is solid. No movement. Mack C-85 also reports the same. So since I had Hutch calibrated…. I had him push mine with the transit bars in. Rock solid. Then I took them out. Well the top moved about 1/2" then it locked up hard like how his started with? Is it slide adjustment or something else? Don’t know. Although his ripped the slide actuator mounts apart, mine has not, yet.

So now I know how the intent of the slide setup with the actuator. However I’m still no closer to why mine is bent or why Hutch’s ripped apart. More as the investigation continues.

Anyone with a bent slide motor bracket?

Thanks

John
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:56 AM   #13
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With being sick for several days and us getting more rain than we have gotten all summer, I haven't been able to get any pictures of our slide mechanism. (Haven't been able to repair the black tank either! )

Our '03-320 does ratchet on extend and groans on retract.

After reading all the posts in this thread, I may try to fab up a retract limit switch. Basically, it would kill the power to the motor when the slide is fully retracted. Since the slide mechanism already ratchets on extend, I believe I would only need a retract limit switch. It would have to kill the power to the motor, only on retract.

Depending on how our actuator brackets look, I may end up beefing them up a bit. Without having seen ours face to face yet, I'm not sure what exactly would be necessary.

EDIT:

Looking at Lippert's slide manual, I found these two quotes.. Now I have to find out where the "Control" is.



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Old 10-16-2009, 09:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMD_Driver

Our '03-320 does ratchet on extend and groans on retract.

After reading all the posts in this thread, I may try to fab up a retract limit switch. Basically, it would kill the power to the motor when the slide is fully retracted. Since the slide mechanism already ratchets on extend, I believe I would only need a retract limit switch. It would have to kill the power to the motor, only on retract.

Depending on how our actuator brackets look, I may end up beefing them up a bit. Without having seen ours face to face yet, I'm not sure what exactly would be necessary.

EDIT:

Looking at Lippert's slide manual, I found these two quotes.. Now I have to find out where the "Control" is.



Hi Gary

Your slide and mine most likely made of the same vintage. The 2005's the slide floor changed. The actual actuator, I do believe Hutches 2005 is the same as mine and may be the same as yours.

Lippert uses 3 manufactures of the motor/acutator.

1. The Venture, Made by Venture Manufacturing, that is the one I have in my pics and that I did all the links on.

2. The Tuson. Looks like this


3. And a 3rd one. The Lippert guy rattled it off on the phone but I forgot to write it down. I cannot find it per say in the parts on line store for a TT.

So do not know which one you have.

Now to beefing up the bracket. That is no problem for me to do, but I have more questions on what it is getting so beat up. If I fix the motor bracket, then I moved the weak link to the next spot. Until I know more what is causing the problem I can’t make that determination. The clutch should protect this thing. While I really do not like that cantilivered bracket, there are a lot of them made that way. I was interested in how wide spread or not this bent bracket deal is. If there are several 2005’s and 2006 out there with a lot of use and no bend, well that says something. What, well have to figure out what is different.

This weekend if the weather cooperates I’ll be into mine. I’m going to do a torque check on the clutch too. That will then help guide me on what to do with the bracket.

Now to that infamous control that shuts down after a few seconds. That is really misleading in the manual to us tech'y types. If you pull up the wiring diagram in that same manual there is no control other then a forward/reverse switch. And the kill switch on some models. The motor is made to be able to take seconds of locked rotor full current and survive. At least in the Venture system as the factory engineer told me earlier this week. There is no control that times out, other then your finger on the button or given enough time, the circuit breaker feeding the unit.

Hope you feel better.

Oh that WV Sunline and the Slide Room are getting bigger….. You folks growing down there! LOL You adjusted that sig pic again…

John
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Old 10-17-2009, 01:21 AM   #15
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John,
I did some searching on Lippert's site and found a wealth of information. In addition to the Venture motor, I found "Toaster" and the 18:1 Motor and Driveshaft with Right Angle Gear Box by Tuson. The one they probably told you was Klauber. The Klauber had six different motors listed. There was also one called "EZ Bedlift Motor Assembly" on the same page. The most interesting thing I found on the page, was the "LT Global Motor Brake" As per the description for this item, the website proclaims that: "This motor brake is used in various Lippert slide-outs, tv and cabinet lifts, and EZ-Bedlifts." Here's a picture of it:



I may be wrong, but it looks as if this is the "Missing link" we've been looking for.

I tried putting a link to the page I found, but it would not work either way... Hmmmmm
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Old 10-17-2009, 10:15 AM   #16
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Hey John I was thinking about what you were saying about how the motor justs stops with out any kind of switch once it reaches the in or out postion . this motor and acuator set up is simlar to the power locks and windows in our cars and trucks, i have replace the lock acuators in my Excrusion and on the fte web site there is a thread on how to rebuld the acuators because they are so pron to going bad. they list the cause and and interal part that works like a therostat it heats up and cut the power off to the internal switch to keep it from burning up , , the fx is to open up the acuator and take a very small piece ot aluminuim foil between the contection to over ride it, . so my point is maybe the motor is the same type of design. Just a thought !!
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:27 PM   #17
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Hi again Fellow Sunline Slide Campers

Today was a good learning day and I believe I found the issue causing the bent slide actuator brackets. I’ll leave that until the end. At least on mine. Hutch is out camping this weekend and I need to quiz him on his issue this spring at the storage yard when his slide would not open. What I have listed here I firmly now believe is what casued mine.

So now one with the show.....

First the learning and how I came to the conclusion the damage occurred before I ever owned this camper. We bought it used and is was not used very much. The damage could of occurred by the prior owner or at the dealership opening up the slide.

I’ll do this with pics in attempts to keep the wording down.

Here is the bent slide actuator brackets 1 month after we owned the TT. The bent brackets show heavy torsion force in the direction the slide extends. Which is also the way the clutch trips. Mine trips on full slide extend and just stalls out the motor on retract. This is a key point with the clutch tripping in the direction of the damage.


And here it is today, 2 years later and a lot of camping fun later. Approx 60 camping trips later… The damage has not really progressed if any. I truly believe the damage occurred before we took ownership due to this. If this was an ongoing problem, it would of progressed.


Here are the brackets off the TT before straightening. The long one is 0.180” thick the small one is 0.166” thick. About 3/16”.








And the bent mounting plate on the master slide rail.


And here is the system put back together. I was able to straighten each bracket back to just about perfect. The mount on the main slide rail was not as perfect, as I could not get the it there very well. It is 90% better then it was. I feel after my learning today, this fix is now sound and no further work needed for the bent brackets.




OK now the real learning. How could it and how did it get this way When I talked to Venture Manufacturing they said they set the clutches up to trip at around 95 to 105 in. lb. That is not a lot of torque so how could thus heavy type of a bend occur? So I first set out to see if this very low torque was true. Well it is, as I measured it.

I made up an adapter out of an old pipe to go on the manual crank shaft so I could measure the running, slide closing and extending stop torque.






And here is the running torque in the middle of travel. A whopping 25 in. lb. I was shocked but now realized the large mechanical advantage of the ACME screw actuator and the beginning of what when wrong.


I check slide closed (retracted in), that was 75 in lb. It took 75 in lb to break loose the slide and start it moving out. This also explains part of why I do not trip the clutch on retract.

And I checked the slide fully extended. That was 100 in. lb. of torque. It took me 100 in lb to break loose the slide from full out and start back in. Also to note Venture stated the clutch tripped at 95 to 105 in lb and on my camper the clutch ratchets in overload at the end of each slide extend. So now, this all fits.

So I continued the learning to see how the gear box worked and to find out which one it was in case I even needed to buy one. There is nothing in our Sunline manauls on what this part is. And on mine there are not even any part number on the actual part...

Here is the gear box removed and the end that attached to the ACME screw drive. A roll pin drive pin. Take out the 2 , 5/16 bolts and this is in your hand. Not a problem.


The opposite side


The ACME screw adaptor end


Now for what is inside.




With the clutch gear removed


And now how the clutch works. (It is just resting in this vise on a shoulder, not clamped. )


Remove the snap ring


And the 2 Belleville springs. These are spring washers. 0.030 thick, 1.233 OD and 0.649 ID. They are common in the machine building industry. Nothing special to the RV world. Here you can read more on these, this is just 1 place I have bought them from. http://www.leespring.com/int_learn_belleville_wash.asp

And now the gear and clutch star off the shaft.


And the clutch star out of the output shaft gear. This star is slotted, keyed, to the output shaft.


How the clutch works is, the clutch star (keyed to the shaft) is held by pressure in formed pockets in the output shaft gear by the force of the Belleville spring. When the torque on the output shaft exceeds the spring force, the clutch star pops out of the output shaft gear. That popping out of the clutch star is the ratcheting or click, click, click you hear. See here in the home position.



Now the beginning of an overload.


And 1/2 way thru it’s travel before it pops back in.


When I put it back together, I did a bench test on just this clutch part out in the open. It trips at 100 in. lb. Same as I got at the TT when I backed out the slide from full extend.

Now that I had it apart, I had to count the teeth to get the ratio as there is absolutely no numbers or tags on this thing, Only a sticker stating patent pending. I have 18.1 : 1 gear down ratio. Looking at the Venture cut sheet, that 100 in. lb clutch with this ratio and ACME screw = 1,200# of push and pull of the actuator. Now the stars are starting to align on what went wrong to bend the brackets…. Since I had it open, I added more grease as well in hopes of it lasting longer.


And here is some more learning. My super slide only has 36 11/16” travel. Again looking at the Venture cut sheet, my actuator has 40 inches of stroke. This is now why they set up the slide to reach the actuator over travel limit on the extend. It runs out of stroke on the way out, hits the hard stop in the actuator and ratchets the clutch. You then take your finger off the button and it stops clicking. You adjust the position of the slide and seals then by using the all thread rod screwed into the actuator.

Since this actuator has more stroke then the camper slide width, when I retract the slide, the unit comes up against the seals of the camper and the stop can. The motor then just plan runs out of power and stalls with the slide closed. Since I only reached 75 in lbs on the retract stroke, the cutch did not trip. Now why? Well the seals are soft and flexible like a shock absorber. There is no hard mechanical dead stop like on the extend inside the actuator. Since the motor power is matched very close to the clutch size, it is easier to run out of motor power then to have enough inertia to trip the clutch. Remember I’m only 25 in lb away from the clutch trip. Not a lot. If I had a motor with more power, it would trip the clutch and squeeze the seals and camper frame harder along with it. 25 in. lb of clutch = 300# of actuator force on the camper.


OK so now how does all this learning fit. Sorry this took so long but I had to sort this out in order to come to this conclusion. See this pic. This is the manual crank on my camper


What I firmly believe happened is 1 or 2 things.

1. The prior owner had a battery problem or no power and ran the slide out by hand. They had no idea of the high mechanical advantage of the ACME screw and this ratio. When you are in manual crank mode, you are on the end of the ACME screw. There is not clutch. Technically you should only push 11 pounds of force on that crank to seat the slide all the way out. The actuator bottoms out when extending. If you keep cranking the only place for the force to go now is directly into the actuator mounting brackets. 11 pounds on that crank is like nothing. If you go up to 22 lb that translates into 2,200# of push… something has to give! And even 22 pounds of push is not a lot. If they would of kept going they would of twisted the motor right off. This cannot happen with the motor running as the clutch is in the system then. Unless the clutch freezes up.

2. The next thing could have been at the dealer. They may have done the same thing. This TT sat for a long time on the dealers lot. Sunline was out of business then and it may have been to big for most. There was no battery in it when I got it. They had to put an old one in for me to tow home until I could put a new one in. If during its sales life in the dealers lot they cranked the slide out to show it, well they could mess it up too just as easy.

Here is a friendly camper heads up. If you have not already figured this out from reading gone with the wind here…. . If you do not know exactly which direction your manual crank turns for extend or retract, now is a good time to find out. I never did until this saga. I never realized the damage that can so easily come.


How to do this safely, open the slide under power about a foot or so, 1/2 way out is fine too. Then put the manual crank in. Turn the crank slow and then figure out which way is extend and which way is retract. AND write it on the side of the TT some how. A direction arrow would go a long way here…. Since you are not on an end of travel limit, there is little danger of messing something up. The caution is at the ends of travel. If you are trying to open the side by hand due to power outage etc. and you start cranking it IN, when you want to go OUT, that is a problem as all that force is going into the motor mounts unprotected. And you can end up like mine or worse.

Well thanks for reading. Hope this helps.

John
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Old 10-17-2009, 11:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyseagull
Hey John I was thinking about what you were saying about how the motor justs stops with out any kind of switch once it reaches the in or out postion . this motor and acuator set up is simlar to the power locks and windows in our cars and trucks, i have replace the lock acuators in my Excrusion and on the fte web site there is a thread on how to rebuld the acuators because they are so pron to going bad. they list the cause and and interal part that works like a therostat it heats up and cut the power off to the internal switch to keep it from burning up , , the fx is to open up the acuator and take a very small piece ot aluminuim foil between the contection to over ride it, . so my point is maybe the motor is the same type of design. Just a thought !!
Dan

Thanks for the note. Read my saga. And find out which way our manul crank works for in and out. And read my note before trying....

I too thought we had an issue with the motor not shutting off on the retract stroke. Well not really now that I figure this thing out.

Thanks

John

PS I want to do an amp check on full out and in and see what that is. There is a 30 amp breaker at the battery that feeds this and mine never tripped. If we are very far away far that 30 amp breaker then there is room for something smaller to help in self destruct mode. But right now my motor does not have enough guts to tear this thing up. Others may have stronger motor on the newer ones.
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Old 10-18-2009, 09:01 AM   #19
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Very well done John! Everything I have read about manually operating slides, has said damage can occur if you turn the crank after the slide is extended or retracted.

Here's the warning in Lippert's Slide manual:




This was just above that warning..



As usual, your thorough, detailed and no-nonsense investigative techniques astound me! When I grow up, I hope I can follow closely in your footsteps!!

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Old 10-18-2009, 09:55 AM   #20
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Thanks once again John I think I speak for everyone on this forum your are a true asset ! and we appreacate you taking the time to post pic, and calculate many different problems that other members have had . that is very kind of you keep up the great work thanks again Dan .
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