Slide Floor Water Damage

[JohnB]

Hi Fellow Sunliners

I have a new “opportunity”…. Found it this weekend. Seems like I have a new winter research project on how to fix.

I have a soggy spot on the rear bottom slide floor. I’ll do this with pics. It helps explain better.

Here is the rear slide over all pic for a point of reference.


Here is the soggy spot about 8 1/2” from edge towards the center of slide and about 16” of length starting from outside wall toward the TT


Here is the front, solid as a rock. You can tell how straight the Darco is even.


Now how I “think” I got this soggy spot. First some history on the TT. The Coach was built in Oct 2003. I aquired it in Oct 2007 or 3 years after it was built. I belive when the prior owner traded this to the dealer, it sat on the dealers lot possible 8 months to a year. I can tell by the underneath of this TT and the lack of wear in towing areas when we got it, it was not towed much. So it may have been on a seasonal site. Point: The slide may have been left open for a real long time even when no one was in it. There is no slide topper, yet… Happend at the dealer or by prior owner or both.

While we have camped a lot in the TT since we acquired it, we really have not camped in the rain very much. Point 2: I believe this started at least as a pre existing condition and I never saw it when I bought it. I did notice the Darco was more wavy in this area but never squeezed it or gave it a thought until this past weekend.

So here is the hypothesis:

First how the slide is built. See the lower edging that holds the slide side on. There is putty tape behind it and screws thru the edging, siding, and into the slide wall. When I got the camper, I chalked the top of that edge strip as it just looked like a place for water to work it's way under and in the camper.

This summer I removed the flange screws, counter sunk them and installed stainless screws and then put Etertnabond over them. Now recalling one of those lower screws was rusted badly.

I also replaced the screw holding the grounding lug on as it was rusted to holding almost nothing. Again rusted screws on the inside mean something.



Then I look from the bottom up.


There are a series of holes worn in the Darco moisture barrier. About every 5 maybe 6”. Under those holes is a hard bolt counterbored into the slide floor. Basicaly is appears the floor is bolted up into the wall structure.


What I believe occurred is, when the slide was built the slide floor was Darco wrapped before the walls where ever put on. See this pic by EMD_Driver as he was taking his 2004 T299SR parts camper apart. The Darco is on top of the floor and the wall studs are on top of the Darco.


The holes where pre counterbored before the Darco wrap. When the wall was added, they found those C’bored holes and drilled up into the wall and then inserted screws or carriage bolts. And they never plugged off those holes in the Darco. As on mine, they are still open.

As water comes down the slide wall during a rain, it bumps over the lower edge strip then onto the Darco. Since there is no drip lip, the water follows around under the slide. Water wicks across the Darco until it falls off or wicks up into one of the holes where the C’bored screws are. Once the water gets in, the Darco moisture barrier is so water tight, the water cannot get out. Now the pooled water inside festers and festers. Over enough rain storms and time, rot sets in.

That is one hypothesis that at least explains what I see now from the outside. Inside the camper there is only 1 area of small water damage. I know this was there from day 3 I owned it. I saw it after I got home with it checking out the power converter. And at that time it was still damp I could smell it up close. It is now dry. I have no explanation for how this spot got there other then the slide was not fully extended and water got in. Again on the dealers lot or by the prior owner.




Now to what I have found. I went probing with an ice pic and taking some screws out looking for tell tail signs of how bad the damage is that I can see.

I pulled the lower edging screws out looking for heavy rust. Well no, not really. I also pic probed these holes and they feel solid at the end of the screw. So the wall sill plate is intact at least.


Then I went to the C’bored holes. I could feel the metal bolt so I went to the edge of the bolt at an angle into the wood.

Here is the pick process. Pick up in hole.


Then put finger flush with Darco as a stop gage and pull out.


Then compare to the side of the slide. The slide floor is 1” thick. This probe area is close to an inch in probe depth.


Move along the set of holes to about the middle and do it again. This one now is about 1/2 to 5/8 deep.


Then move into the solid area. About 1/4” and it is hard wood


And at the end by the camper. Even less maybe 3/16” and hard wood


It appears the soggy section is only on the end area. So I took out one of the seal flange screws. Uh Oh…..


Close up on screw


Now a depth probe check. 2 1/2” straight up. It stopped because the tapered pick bottomed out in the aluminum hole.


Remember the floor is only 1” thick. I'm about 1 1/2” above the floor line now with the pick tip.

So that’s the problem. Until I take off some of the Darco and maybe siding I will not know if this has gone up into the wall support wood. It may only be limited to the floor.

So now the first thing is:

Research on how to do a Darco repair that is bonded dead flush and flat as the slide bottom slides on the Darco when it comes in. I cannot have any edges sticking up or it may rip.

Once I figure out how to bad the damage is, then sort out a method to correct. Can I create a wood patch bonded with metal or do I need a new slide floor?

Anyone been thru this before? Or know how to flush fix Darco. In fact I cannot even find who make Darco... Doing a search on "darco polythene moisture barrier" bring up about every RV maker but no company... Who are they?


Thanks

John

[Sunline Fan]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Uh Oh…..

When JohnB says uh oh, this can't be good. Hopefully the damage won't be as bad as it looks right now.

I tightened the screws on that side plate this summer. I remember they stuck out just a little bit and I didn't want them to catch. I do remember one, I think close to the inside of the coach, wouldn't tighten much. I seem to remember it just stripped out. I never took them out though to see if they were rusty...I'm hoping that at this point they wouldn't be. However, I suspect the dealer did leave the slide out for periods of time.

At least there's a small supply of slide room floors right now...

Jon

[EMD_Driver]

John,
You are correct, that the walls were fastened to the slide floor after the Darco was applied. The hole you referenced in this pic:



Was found every 5-6" on the T-299's slide. Even when you think you've gotten them all out.... Check again! It is those screws and the four slide mechanism bolts, that hold everything together.

Gary

[henryj]

John, try these guys:
http://www.darcoinc.com/

The page doesn't say they make the membrane, but the name is just too much of a coincidence.

Henry

[frank]

Well, that just plain sucks.

No matter how you slice it, that is not going to be a fun one to fix.

John, you have access to a borescope? You might be able to pop that side window out and use a scope to see into the wall. Obviously you'd have to drill a hole in the bottom of the opening to get the probe down in there, but that's no biggie. I'd like to be sure that the water came up instead of down. You could also get a peek up into the membrane with one.

Just thinking about the membrane and judging from the pictures, I think you might actually be able to rewrap the bottom and sides with a piece. Of course you couldn't easily get it under the walls, but I think you could get a piece on there under the trim and seal it with something like eternabond.

Feel free to yell if you need an extra pair of hands at some point.

- Frank

[Gene]

Originally Posted by JohnB

{snip} ... Can I create a wood patch bonded with metal or do I need a new slide floor?

If you could peel back the Darco maybe the soft section of floor could be "solidified" with Git Rot. Many years ago I used it on a section of the transom of a wood boat. One section was real soft and rotted. I used Git Rot per the instructions on the kit and got a solid surface that seemed bonded to the solid wood. I sanded and painted it and you could not see the repair. I did that so long ago that I forgot the details, and the amount of mess, but I did the repair in one afternoon then waited a few days to sand and paint. You do need to start with dry wood or OSB.

I have followed your other projects here and am sure I will follow this one.

Good luck,

Gene

[EMD_Driver]

If you cannot find Darco, perhaps something like this would work...

http://www.garysupholstery.com/seamark.html


Nope.... It's not my website either!

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Gene

If you could peel back the Darco maybe the soft section of floor could be "solidified" with Git Rot. Many years ago I used it on a section of the transom of a wood boat. One section was real soft and rotted. I used Git Rot per the instructions on the kit and got a solid surface that seemed bonded to the solid wood. I sanded and painted it and you could not see the repair. I did that so long ago that I forgot the details, and the amount of mess, but I did the repair in one afternoon then waited a few days to sand and paint. You do need to start with dry wood or OSB.

I have followed your other projects here and am sure I will follow this one.

Good luck,

Gene

Gene

Thanks. I'll look up more on the Git rod. There is another product called Rot Dr. http://www.rotdoctor.com/ I'll have to read up more on them too.

Pending what I find, it may be a combo of new pressure treated wood and Rot Dr etc. verses the entire floor.

I will not know how good or bad this is until I take down a section of Darco and look up... yuck...

Thanks for the tip

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by EMD_Driver

John,
You are correct, that the walls were fastened to the slide floor after the Darco was applied. The hole you referenced in this pic:

Was found every 5-6" on the T-299's slide. Even when you think you've gotten them all out.... Check again! It is those screws and the four slide mechanism bolts, that hold everything together.

Gary

Gary

Need some info. The carpet, Did they lay the carpet down all the way to the edge of the Darco board, then put the wall sill plate on over top sandwiching it inbetween? Or did they stapled it down inside the room?

This weekend curiosity may get the best of me and I may lift up the couch and take back the carpet corner if it is not sandwiched and look at if the rot has come up to the top yet.

The good news is, if they wraped the Darco around the OSB board and then put the walls on, I have better odds the rot has not gone up the walls yet. The Darco would hold it to the slide floor area.



Thanks

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by frank

No matter how you slice it, that is not going to be a fun one to fix.

John, you have access to a borescope?

- Frank

Fun to fix?? Well remember last year it was my axles…. While it took a while, it was actually fun doing the repair. I knew it was right when I was done and I learned a ton in the process.

The floor, I’m prepped mentally to replace the whole floor if I have to. I have enough stuff here at the house to make that happen. Just that will take a bit and won’t happen for sure until next spring when the weather cooperates for like 2 to 3 days straight.

A borescope. They have them at work. We use them to look in pipes. It’s an option I have not thought of.

I know I will learn more again by the time this fix is over.

The help offer, I’ll let you know but I should have it covered. Have to strong strapping sons One an in-law the other a sibling. Both owe Dad some favors as they have no problem calling when something at there house does not work…

[JohnB]

Hi Folks

The makers of Darco, well that is still a mystery but I have been tipped off on some repairs options for it. Seems the Mobile home industry uses Darco big time.

Flex-Mend is a brand name of repair tape. Once I knew where to start looking, it was easier. Here are 2 hits that come up quick.

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/shield.htm

http://www.randgsupply.com/Warehouse...yadhesives.htm

Also some one on Sunline club has bought and used something to patch their underbelly. I’ll have to search for them. I’m thinking Greg, (Mooney) found something and posted about it now over a year ago.

Thanks for the looking

John

[Sunline Fan]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Also some one on Sunline club has bought and used something to patch their underbelly. I’ll have to search for them. I’m thinking Greg, (Mooney) found something and posted about it now over a year ago.

I do remember that too John. I also remember someone else patching their underside with a tape that they bought through Sunline. So it could be the same stuff.

I have an e-mail out to Tim Martin at the moment with probably two pages worth of questions. When he gets back to me I'll try to remember to pass along the question about the frames and this.

Jon

[Steve Collins]

John,

That tape may also be available through a mobile home dealer. They have the same material sealing up the underbellies of mobile homes that is used on TT's.

[frank]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Fun to fix?? Well remember last year it was my axles…. While it took a while, it was actually fun doing the repair. I knew it was right when I was done and I learned a ton in the process.

Oh no, I meant **NOT** fun!

For me, it's not that I really mind doing the work, it's the shock that it NEEDS to be done. That sinking feeling in the gut.. That's the part that always gets me down.

I agree it will be a learning experience for sure.

Oh, speaking of your wheel alignment I have a link to send you. Keep forgetting. I'll find it and shoot it over.

Originally Posted by JohnB

The floor, I’m prepped mentally to replace the whole floor if I have to. I have enough stuff here at the house to make that happen. Just that will take a bit and won’t happen for sure until next spring when the weather cooperates for like 2 to 3 days straight.

Yes, I didn't want to jump to any conclusions until you pop it open, but I was thinking the same thing "Be prepared to replace.." Any thoughts on using ply vs. OSB? No doubt you can pull it off. Looking through Gary's pictures, it doesn't look terribly difficult, but a little time consuming.

Originally Posted by JohnB

A borescope. They have them at work. We use them to look in pipes. It’s an option I have not thought of.

I borrowed one and used it to look up in the ceiling when I had my leak. I used it again to find holes in the ceiling to run wires through. It was a low-end model, but it did work. Something with a video screen and light would be wonderful.

Originally Posted by JohnB

The help offer, I’ll let you know but I should have it covered. Have to strong strapping sons One an in-law the other a sibling. Both owe Dad some favors as they have no problem calling when something at there house does not work…

Believe me, I know how that goes. Seems like I am always helping somebody with a project, but when I need a hand for a few hours, everybody is tied up.

Anyway, the offer is always open, John. Like you have said many times, "Us Sunliners have to stick together."

- Frank