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Old 04-09-2019, 02:08 PM   #1
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Siding screwed ,nailed or glued

Hello everyone,
I have a question I am repairing a 2005 sunline Solaris t - 2363 that has water damage in the rear bedroom.
Some of the rear wall framing has rotted out but it is repairable from the inside does anyone know if the siding is attached with nails, screws or glued to the frame?
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:25 PM   #2
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:42 PM   #3
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Thank you. Would you happen to know if the siding is removed from the bottom or top first in order to re staple it to the new wood studs.
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:11 PM   #4
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Just like house siding, it's installed from bottom to top. Removal would be from top to bottom.
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:26 PM   #5
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Okay thank you
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Old 04-09-2019, 08:00 PM   #6
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Hi Fred,

Heads up, ideally you fix the majority of your water damage from the outside. This will leave less to repair to the interior and still all match well. Plus the repair will be a lot sounder fixing it from the outside in rather than the inside out.

If you can see water damage on the back wall, odds are high there is other damage. Could start at the roof line, down the back wall and then under the camper. Taking the back wall off will expose you to what you are up against.

These posts may help. While a different floor plans then yours, the way you fix them is the same. I also happen to have a 2005 T2363 apart at the moment if have floor plan specific questions. Just these pics are not up on the site yet.

This one is a front wall, back wall and new roof repair, just it is a slide camper. 2006 T2464SR
A Winter Project - Roof Repair (Picture heavy)

This one of my project campers. It shows how the camper comes apart. 2004 T1950
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...avy-17684.html

This is another one of my project campers. I never made it to posting all the how to's yet, but this camper is back together at the moment. I need to do more on it yet. Roof and back wall.
2004 T2475 Repair - Project Camper No 2

Hope this helps and ask away on any questions.

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Old 04-09-2019, 08:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
Just like house siding, it's installed from bottom to top. Removal would be from top to bottom.

On a Sunline camper, actually no this is not like a house. The top piece of siding goes on first and the bottom piece goes on last. So taking the siding off, you start at the bottom and work your way up.

I am trying to find a pic of the siding joint to show you. The siding staples are at the bottom on our Sunlines. On house siding, the nails are at the top of the siding.

See this one pic. The staples are on the bottom. In order to expose those staples you start at the bottom siding piece and remove the first piece. The front and rear wall has screws at the bottom and some staples. Once they are off, the bottom piece comes out and exposes the siding staples of the piece above it


Before any front or rear wall siding can come off, the corner moldings have to come off. And any windows or other things mounted in that piece of siding.

If I cannot find a pic of the joint, I will take some tomorrow and post.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 04-10-2019, 08:08 AM   #8
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Hi John,
Thank you so much for all the information.
The person I bought the camper from had a tree branch go through the bedroom roof. All the damage is confined to the rear bedroom I have already removed the rotted floor, ceiling and back wall from the inside. Luckily there are only a few rotted studs on the back wall and I have to replace two of the ceiling Trusses. I'm going to take your advice and remove the siding to replace the studs.
The wet Bud board has been removed from the EPDM Rubber roof any recommendations on replacement under it maybe Luan?
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:01 PM   #9
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To help all following along, here are some pics of the siding joints.

Here are a few side shots of the siding joint. This is with the entry door removed.




And down at the bottom. Once the bottom gold siding is removed, the staples of the first bottom white sheet are exposed.


A few other things to know. If you are going to remove siding, there is a sequence to how the camper was built that has to be reversed in order to get the siding off.

The front and rear siding was installed "after" the long left and right side siding was installed. The long sides siding has tabs that are longer than the wall and folded over the ends of the corner studs. Then the front and rear walls are stapled over the top of those tabs.

Point being, if you just want a front or rear wall off, you can take that wall off directly. If you want to take a complete left of right side wall off, you have to remove the front and rear wall first, then take the side siding off.

Here are some pics of the corner joints showing this with the corner molding removed. This is a front wall, the back wall is the same.

Before removing siding, any doors, cargo hold doors, fenders, corner molding etc. that cut into the bottom siding needs to be removed. Then you can start on the siding.

To start, the front bottom siding is screwed on. See the rusted screws along the bottom. Taking those screws out and staples in the ends of that sheet in the corners, and the bottom sheet will come out. Again, same for the rear wall.


Here you can see the tabs of the gold siding folded over the corner.




Here is a side shot of the corner with the front siding over the top of the side siding tabs.


Then you can get to the staples on the sheet above the bottom piece.


A heads up on the front wall. I do not know what model year Sunline started this technique, however on anything 2004 and newer, the front siding sheets have butyl caulk between the top of the sheet and the bottom of the sheet above it. I suspect this caulking goes back into the 1990's models as well. This is to help stop driving rain water from coming in the siding when towing in the rain. I have found, using a heat gun and warming the entire width of the camper at that joint will soften the butyl enough you can pull the sheet out. This is only done on the front wall.

While we are on taking siding off, on the "non slide room" Sunlines, the long side walls lower piece of siding (gold in these pics) is stapled up from the bottom. See here.


The slide room campers are built different as the frame is so much wider, the bottom piece is siding is hanging down from the floor wood to cover the frame up.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred54 View Post
The person I bought the camper from had a tree branch go through the bedroom roof. All the damage is confined to the rear bedroom I have already removed the rotted floor, ceiling and back wall from the inside. Luckily there are only a few rotted studs on the back wall and I have to replace two of the ceiling Trusses. I'm going to take your advice and remove the siding to replace the studs.
The wet Bud board has been removed from the EPDM Rubber roof any recommendations on replacement under it maybe Luan?
Ouch, nasty tree got in the act...

OK I see, you have a very wet camper doing roof, ceiling and floor repairs. Yes, pull the back wall off, you can then look at the bottom end floor joist. If there was any corner rot, from a roof leak or a corner molding leak, it normally takes bottom rear wall floor joist in the back on the non slide camper. All the water sets stuck there above the black Darco waterproof membrane and rots.

Now to the roof repair, I have done roof repair a few ways depending on how bad the roof was.

If I just had a corner leak that took out the bud board and had say, a 2' x 2' wet spot in the bud board, then I would use new 1/8" luan supported by a framework under it and glue the rubber to the luan. In this case, the thin luan was supported enough to hold rubber. It was not a large span of unsupported luan. See here. This is on a 2005 T264SR camper. It had a front and rear roof corner leak.




Scored the budboard to make a clean cut and patch tie in onto the 1/8" luan.


Installed supporting wood for the tie in to support the thin luan.


Had to deal with power cables too.


This is also Rot Dr treated with CPES to kill any dry rot fungus and stiffen up the ceiling board.


Then the luan




Here is that corner all repaired and the roof cleaned. You can see the a faint dirt line where the angled transition of the patch is.


That said, the 1/8" made it work well on a "patch" that small. I sanded then transition edge of the luan to help guide the budboard over onto the luan that then only had rubber on it. This helped on the thickness difference.

On larger areas, like the entire roof, I have done 3/8" BC sanded exterior plywood on walk on roofs. That camper a 2006 T264SR had enough cargo capacity to handle the increased weight. On lighter campers, I used this.

This is a 2005 T2363 I am in the process of completing. This is exterior glue flooring underlayment. It is sanded fine on the top and it is solid, no voids in the layers. It is 3/16" thick. Well the actual is 0.185" thick can can range up to 0.210. It is 5mm I think in the lumber yard. Here is a PDF cut sheet on it. https://hw.menardc.com/main/items/me...structions.pdf

This is a link to our local Menards who handles it for more info. https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...roduct=1251910

Why I used that in place of the 1/8" luan? In this case I was doing the whole roof. I wanted something more substantial then the 1/8" luan and it was thick enough I could countersink no. 6 flat head screws in it. It is still not a walk on roof, but it is light years stiffer then the budboard. In this case, it added only 47# to the T2363 for the entire roof.

A few pics of it. Due the rafter spacing, I started in the center of the camper putting the decking down. I could use the sheet drops for other areas on the roof.


Working to the front after the rear was done


Decking complete


Rubber on and roof flanges.


With all that, how big an area are you replacing?

Hope this helps.

John
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Old 04-11-2019, 06:11 AM   #11
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John, it's about a 8-foot section of roof I think I will skip the Luan and go with the sanded plywood that you recommended.
Is there a specific mold / mildew spray that you use on the Framing and floor joist?
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:43 AM   #12
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I have read that is not recommended to place any wood with pressure treated what type wood do recommend when replacing floor joists, wall frame and ceiling trusses?
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Old 04-11-2019, 03:42 PM   #13
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I work in construction/remodeling, and yes, pressure-treated would be a bad idea. The chemicals used will corrode aluminum and non-galvanized fasteners.

I'm new to the RV side of things, but I would assume the standard lumber sold at the box stores and lumberyards--usually Southern Yellow Pine. I'm sure one of the more seasoned members here will correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Of course if you want to spend a fortune, oak is stronger.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred54 View Post
John, it's about a 8-foot section of roof I think I will skip the Luan and go with the sanded plywood that you recommended.
Is there a specific mold / mildew spray that you use on the Framing and floor joist?
Hi Fred,

This is what I use and have used over the last 10 years. Rot Doctor CPES https://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html



There is a cold and warm weather mix. If you go this way, make sure get the right one.

Treat any water stained wood, even if the wood is solid. It will also stiffen up partially rotted wood. But the wood has to be dried out first. Do not use on wet wood.

Odd though, it comes up "Out of Stock" May have to call them to see what is up.

I did find what looks like it on Amazon, but by a different name. Do not know if these 2 companies where ever part of the same one and split or not. https://www.amazon.com/Smiths-Origin...ateway&sr=8-33

Heads up, you have to use a respirator, the fumes of this stuff are bad. They sell a good quality MoldEx respirator with the correct cartridges on the Rot Dr web site. I use there and have bought replacement filter over the years. It is reasonably priced, or was when I bought it.

And the stink will hang around for about 3 days. But it will then be totally gone. I was worried the 1st time I used it, it this smell ever going to go away? It did, totally. Never stayed in any wood of fabrics of the camper, but it was really strong the 1st day.

Oh, you stated "spray on" No, I brush it on. The fumes might be really, really bad sprayed on.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post
Just like house siding, it's installed from bottom to top. Removal would be from top to bottom.
The siding on my 2004 t-2475 was removed from bottom to top. Undo staples on the bottom piece first. That piece unhooks from next piece up, etc.
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Old 04-11-2019, 07:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred54 View Post
I have read that is not recommended to place any wood with pressure treated what type wood do recommend when replacing floor joists, wall frame and ceiling trusses?
I'm assuming the pressure treated issue deals with the fastener corrosion. While it may make one feel better they used PT wood, the reality is you cannot make the whole camper out of it. So why just a few boards?

I have even debated this myself and I came to the conclusion, put my money into a better sealing system to keep the water out in the first place. And I have taken the sealing to the next level in a camper. And yes, it costs a little more, but after doing one of these rot repairs, spending a little more to get a lot better long term water seal is worth it. If you want more on what to use to seal up the camper, let me know, I'll type some more.

To the wood, the camper was made from SPF softwood. SPF being Spruce, Pine, Fir. You will see it stamped on the 2 x whatever size in the lumber yard.

The is also SYP, or southern yellow pine. It is hands down a stronger wood, but it a for sure heavier.

I have used both, SPF and SYP. I mainly use SPF if can get is with low knots in it. It is hit and miss at the big box stores. The issue is getting wood that rips straight and is not loaded with knots.

If you going to the big box lumber yards, here is a tip I have learned works at some of them. Start looking at 2 x 8 in. width and up. I normally get 2 x 12 and rip to size as there is less waste. The larger lumber runs better then the normal 2 x 4 or 2 x 6. And the longer the board, the better it can be sometimes. I have bought it in 2 x 12 x 12's, 14's and 16 foot just to get something I can work with and does not come out of the saw looking like rocking chair rails.

Another tip, have you ever heard of a Kreg jig? A pocket hole screw jig. These come in real handy doing camper restoration. Sunline used large staples but they also had the board all laying apart to be able to staple both sides. This is not always the case when doing a restore. The Kreg Jig and good quality outdoor rated glue is a good option.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 04-11-2019, 08:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred54 View Post
John, it's about a 8-foot section of roof I think I will skip the Luan and go with the sanded plywood that you recommended.
While the exact brand of floor underlayment with exterior glue I found may not be in your area, look to see what they do have.

One thing though, with it being 3/16" (I say 3/16" they call it 1/4") you really have to screw it down. Lots of screws. The X's on mine were preprinted to help guide you on spacing, which is about every 4" in length.

I used no. 6 x 1" or no. 6 x 1 1/4" lg flat head screws. The only head type I could get was a philips, not great but it did work.

I would recommend you counter sink the board for the heads first rather them trying to let the screw flair out the wood. That type of laminated board uses thin hardwood layers in some cases and the wood will not flare out like with soft wood. If you do not pre countersink, then the raised bump of wood is there and so is the screw head. That creates a problem with the rubber going over the screw. It will wear through the rubber at that high spot. And try and not countersink too deep. That is not good either as there is then a divet in the rubber with the screw being low.

After doing many sheets of this roofing, my old faithfull counter sink with a stop on it broke. Having a stop on the countersink really helps. This is the one I had that broke. Stanley Screw Mate. They are non adjustable, they fit a size, but they were cheap, well back in the day. I see them on Ebay now for sale. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...+mate&_sacat=0

But I did buy one of these, and if you can spring for the cost, they really work. https://www.toolstoday.com/carbide-t...hex-shank.html

You can adjust the drill bit length and the dept of the countersink. A few pics




It cuts a true clean hole. The carbide cutter is unbelievable.


Then use a cordless drill with a clutch on it set just right and every screw stops where it is supposed to. Use a sharp edges putty knife over every screw to see if it catches for sticking up.

While I was doing 2 camper roofs at the time, I sprang for cost of the better countersink. Since you are only doing a smaller area, it may not be worth it for you to buy the better bit. Just be careful with a non stop countersink to not go too deep or too high.

Hope this helps

John

Oh, gluing the rubber, if this is your first rubber roof glue down and want some tips on that, let me know.
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Old 04-12-2019, 06:38 AM   #18
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Hi John,
I'll see if I can order rot doctor should I first spray down the wood with a bleach water solution to kill the mold or does the rot doctor do that? Thank you so much for all the information that you're giving me it's a huge help.
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Old 04-12-2019, 09:50 AM   #19
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Hi John,
I'll see if I can order rot doctor should I first spray down the wood with a bleach water solution to kill the mold or does the rot doctor do that? Thank you so much for all the information that you're giving me it's a huge help.
Hi Fred,

You are very welcome. Glad to help and share what I have picked up along the way. Ask questions as needed. If you can, post some pics of your restoration project. We all learn from each other and seeing the fixes others have done really helps for folks coming along in the future with similar issues.

The CPES will absorb into the wood and kill any mold, mildew and dry rot fungus along with sealing the wood and stiffening it. No need to bleach separately. Just make sure the wood has totally dried out before applying so it will absorb all the way to the end of the rot.

They want you to put many coats on, the more that goes on, the deeper it penetrates. The instructions state to apply in enough coats until it stops absorbing any more. That may not be totally practical on a large camper but understand what we are doing verses what it can be used for.

This product is also used as part of rebuilding wood in place. Folks doing boat restorations use it to actually rebuild damaged wood in place many inches deep. They follow the CPES treatment with other epoxies and fillers to rebuild the wood to original size. That takes a lot of steps but is very practical on a piece of mahogany with very intricate profiles on the rest of the good wood downstream of it.

On a camper, the best repair process is to totally cut out all active rot and replace with new wood. Splice in a good wood and screw/glue as needed to existing sound wood. Then treat any water stained or thin rot that it not practical to replace. In my case, restoring campers I do coat all water stained or very light rot with multiple coats. But I do not apply it until to stops absorbing which would take 6 to 10 times the amount to absorb it all the way to the center of a 2 x 3 etc. It all depends on what you want to do with it. There was one instance I did keep coating it until it stopped. Took about 20 - 30 minutes at on the end of a 2 x 4 that I could not cut out. Most times it is a 2 to 3 recoat on sound wood as I'm only after killing the dry rot fungus on exterior areas, not going down inches into the wood with rot.

On qty to buy, since you mix to the 2 parts to create a solution, 2 one pint containers (part A & part B) makes 1 qt of treating liquid. On this camper repair, (see link) we used 1 qt of total solution. We bought the 1 pint cans of the 2 part solution. This link will drop you into the pics showing how much we treated to help give you a guide to buy the pints or you need more and buy the quart cans. I did have to buy the quart cans on the last camper I did, but the rot was twice as much all over. A Winter Project - Roof Repair (Picture heavy)

Hope this helps

John

PS. If you call Rot Doctor on the out of stock message, let us know the outcome. Save me a call for the next time.
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Old 04-14-2019, 07:39 AM   #20
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Hi John, have you ever taken out the bedroom cabinets if so what is the best way to remove them?
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