Siding screwed ,nailed or glued

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Fred54

Hi John, have you ever taken out the bedroom cabinets if so what is the best way to remove them?

Hi Fred,

I'm assuming you are talking about the row of cabinets over the head of the bed? Are you wanting to take them out down to the floor?

The issue is, they are screwed in (really well) from the outside of the camper. Meaning the screw head is on the outside (insulation side) of the wall board. The hard tempered screws they used start outside the wall, screw through the wall board, then into a 3/4" reinforced board that is part of the cabinet.

See here on the 2005 T2363 I am working on. This one had a corner molding leak along with a roof corner leak. The ceiling was wet, the back wall the left side wall, and the floor joists. It also ran to the fender well band board and across the camper under the bathroom. I had the siding off the back, the left wall and the right wall. The front too.

Point is, see this roof corner shot. This is after the Rot Dr. resin cured and the new rebuilt wood in place. The screws into the cabinets where rusted to the point the no. 2 square bit socket was rusted out. I left the old screws and added new ones next to then for strength. You can see the shiny silver heads on the ceiling board. It is hard to see in the pics, but the screws to the cabinets goes down the real wall and the left side wall.




I have tried to drill off the screw heads and the temper of the screw is so hard, that it breaks the edge off of any high speed steel or cobalt bit I use in short order. I have not tried carbide yet. When I have to get the cabinet out and want to save the wall or ceiling board, I use a 4 1/2" grinder and very carefully grind the heads off only leaving the screw shank left. Take out all the screws and the cabinets come off the wall not disturbing the wall board.

The issue issue is going to be in your case the left side wall. While the roof may be off and the rear wall too, the left side wall on that T2363 has just about everything mounted through it. And the front has to come off to allow the left side to come off. It's an undertaking. However if you do, you can reset all those windows, cargo doors etc with new sealing tape and find any other leaking damage.

Some other club members have "yanked/pried" the cabinets off the wall pulling the heads out through the wall board. It creates good sized holes in the wall board. The question is, will you be replacing the wall board? And how will you re-screw the cabinets back onto the wall if you do not take off the left side siding? You may be able to create a way to screw the cabinets to the wall studs from the inside. Have to think through that.

To date, I have not yet figured out an easy way to get cabinets off the wall without having the siding off. Again, I was after saving the wall board.

Hope this helps

John

[Fred54]

Hi John, I have all the bad wood removed from the inside and I am in the process of letting it dry out real good.
Once I get started on it I will post some pictures and I'm sure ask more questions as I go along once again thank you

[JohnB]

Great!

Yeh, it does take some time to dry out in the cooler weather. In the dead heat of summer with a fan blowing on it, it is amazing what can dry out overnight even.

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Thanks

John

[Fred54]

Hey John, I have another question for you while I'm waiting for the camper to dry out.
I have about a 6-foot section of roof above the bedroom that needs to be peeled back so I can replace a couple trusses put down new wood then re- glue down the EPDM Rubber. What needs to be removed in order to peel back that section of rubber roof?

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Fred54

I have about a 6-foot section of roof above the bedroom that needs to be peeled back so I can replace a couple trusses put down new wood then re- glue down the EPDM Rubber. What needs to be removed in order to peel back that section of rubber roof?

Hi Fred,

Here is the "list" in order to get 6 foot running length of roof peeled back.

1. Remove the left and right rear wall corner molding.
2. Remove the rear roof end wall cap molding.
3. Remove the awning if you have one.
4. Due to your camper length, the door side and the non door side gutter rail is full length of the camper. You need to unscrew and pull away about 8 to 10 feet of running length on both sides of the gutter rail. You need it longer so the angle you pull it away from the camper will allow the 6 foot of roof to be worked on. It is going to hang out in the open and you may have to support to not accidentally bend it.
5. Remove the rear bedroom 14 x 14 ceiling roof vent.
6. Your approx 6 feet, could run into the black tank vent and the shower dome. You will need to remove them too if it does. Hope it stops there or the fridge and the AC unit needs to come up. Ask on the AC unit if you get that far.

Once you get all that off, the roof rubber/budboard is stapled to the sides of the camper behind the gutter rail area. There may be a few staples even at the rear wall what was under the rear wall cap molding. The staples will be buried under old butyl sealing tape. If you dig for them, you will find them.

When all the staples are out.... then you can roll over the last 6 feet and lay it on top of the rest of the roof.

A few tips:

The vinyl screw covers on the moldings will most likely need to be replaced as they are so old. It is rather cheap anyway. About $10 for 100ft of it. Just poke into it and pull/cut it to get started and then it will come right off. Be prepared for green and black mold yuk under the gutter rail screw covers. And rusted screws. I suggest all new screws and stainless when you put it back together. Can provide how to get them in bulk, way cheaper then any big box store.

When taking the moldings, gutter rail, vents etc., a heat gun is your friend. Once all the screws are out, warm the entire molding about 2 to 3 feet from where you want to start. Gently lift, dig under with a putty knife is needed to get started. Apply more heat as needed right in the joint that is opening up as you lift. Try not to bend the moldings any more then you have too, use more heat and it will release. You can straighten them and flatten the screws impressions before you put them back on during the cleaning up process.

A heat gun and a very dull stiff blade metal putty knife, 1" wide, (grind all blade edges dull to not damage the roof) along with a heat gun will allow you to scrape off the old Dicro. Warm it, and push the putty knife in and more heat as needed. It will come right up. Right down to the rubber. Keep heat pointed in the direction you are lifting it up, scraping, so you do not waste the heat. When you get close to the rubber, hold the blade more parallel to the roof and with heat, it will take it right to the rubber.

The 14 x 14 roof vent, the shower dome and the black tank vent will more than likely be damaged getting them up. As odds are very high they do not come up without breaking. With the age of the camper, plan new ones of those as come 10 years old in the sun, their life being plastic is about over anyway. Can help where to get parts when the time comes. The moldings and gutter rail can be cleaned up, straightened and reused.

I told you to stop on the gutter rails at 8 to 10 feet. This is only so that the least could be removed. BUT... it will be a bugger to clean that molding in place up on the roof. Your other choice, is to remove the entire 21 feet of molding and clean it on the bench. BUT, you have to lift the front left and right corner molding a few feet to get the gutter rail out. While more work, this allows you to check other roof areas for water damage and put all fresh new butyl sealing tape on and all new Dicor caulk. Yes, that is an amount of work. But it will pay off big time if you plan on keeping the camper a long time. Think about it.

To scrape the old putty tape off the white siding, do not use a metal scraper. Use a stiff plastic one. I use these and they work great. Shapren the ends when they get too dull on a bench grinder. https://www.harborfreight.com/4-piec...set-95832.html

Those plastic scrapers cannot take heat, but will not scratch the white siding or moldings when used to clean them. Try cold scraping and if you need a little heat to soften it up, then heat without the scraper in the direct heat flow.

When you get to cleaning, if you need some pointers on how to clean all that stuff down to bare clean, ask away.

Hope this helps

John

[Fred54]

Hi John,
the camper has dried out and I'm getting ready to do that section of roof. I was wondering since the rest of the roof is fine if you have ever just replaced a section of roof with 3/8 BC sanded plywood instead of The Thin luan to match the depth of Bud board? With the plywood it would be easier for me to get up there and screw it down. I know you said to countersink the screws also would you recommend gluing the plywood to the trusses? Once all the screws are in what type of tape do you use over the screws and also on the edge where the wood meets the siding?

[sep]

Hi Fred,


I see you have been working with John on this but when I did mine, I used a thin "tile board" that was white on one side and brown on the other. It was about the same thickness of the bud board. The reason I did this was because the rubber roof was so short that it barely made it to the end of the camper and it should wrap over the edge. If I went any thicker, it would have never made it to the end and that would cause even more issues with water getting in. You can see how I did mine by searching here for "fixing up my 2000 sunline solaris" or clicking on my user name to see my "articles".


I hope this helps a bit.


Steve

[JohnB]

Hi Fred,

Some comments to your questions.

Originally Posted by Fred54

Hi John,
the camper has dried out and I'm getting ready to do that section of roof. I was wondering since the rest of the roof is fine if you have ever just replaced a section of roof with 3/8 BC sanded plywood instead of The Thin luan to match the depth of Bud board? With the plywood it would be easier for me to get up there and screw it down.

The last we talked, you where estimating you would need to replace a 6 foot section of roof. I did not look up your floor plan, does this 6 foot section (I'm assuming 6 ft running length of roof, the entire 8 feet wide) start at the back or front of the camper? Or is it in the middle of the camper?

The Sunline rubber/budboard combo is about 1/8". I have fixed a patch of bad roof in the budboard type roof, it was like a 24" radius on a corner. In this case I used 1/8" luan as the underlayment and it blended into the existing buboard roof well as the thicknesses were so close.

Making a jump to 3/8" creates a fairly good hump/jump when you start blending it into the existing roof. 3/16" roofing (I have used) and 1/4" you could sand a 4 to 6" blend on the end of the sheet to blend back into the main roof. Feather that end section it down to about 1/8" so there is no hump/bump

3/8" might work, but this is what to watch out for. If this is a camper rear end wall where the 6 foot section starts, you are going to lose some running length on the rubber. Every roof I have undone, it is like the rubber at the back shrinks in length when you take up the rear molding. Most likely what is happening is the rubber did shrink over time and once you lift up the rear wall molding, it springs back shorter. When you add the jump to 3/8", the running length just got a little shorter. What I do not know is, will be create 1/8" short, 1/4" short or worse, 3/8 or larger shortness in rubber length? You can test this out and see before doing it by putting a piece of 3/8" wood under the length of rubber and pull it to the rear wall and see how short you are going to be.

You can use Eternabond tape over the top to help deal with a short rubber piece. Key is that rear roof seam has to be solid to the rubber. You can E bond over the entire molding and onto the rubber if needed.

If this section is at the front seam, there is extra rubber at the front and it's not an issue. At the back wall they cut the rubber the exact length of the roof. No extra and when it shrinks, it gets short.

You will need to deal with the edges on the side walls too. Being 3/8" higher, that rubber is going to be about 1/4" shorter going over the sidewall.

When ever I used 3/8 plywood, I was always doing a new roof so the membrane was always wider and longer then I needed and I can trim it length and width. Blending into the old roof and dealing with the existing rubber lengths is the thing to watch out for. Do a test piece first and lay the rubber over to see what you will need to deal with.

Originally Posted by Fred54

I know you said to countersink the screws also would you recommend gluing the plywood to the trusses?

Yes on using countersunk flush or slight below (1/64" low). Nothing above. I would not glue the plywood to the truss. If you ever have to take up the roof again, having the plywood glued will be a bear and a half getting it up. Screwing whatever plywood you use down will help stiffen the entire roof over the existing buboard setup. No need to glue it down.

Originally Posted by Fred54

Once all the screws are in what type of tape do you use over the screws and also on the edge where the wood meets the siding?

On the roof seams, I use fiberglass mesh drywall tape from the lumber yard. I called Dicor direct and this is what they recommend. It is enough to jump the gap between joints and the glue goes through it to make a better bond. I do this on the seams and it goes over the screws, but not over just screws where there is no seam. Again the head needs to be flush on the countersink of just below. Use a sharp blade putty knife to feel for the head sticking up and deal with it.
Roof seam tape , on Flickr

On the edge of the plywood to the siding. You "must" sand round or router the sharp edge of the plywood sheet. You have to radius that sharp corner to not create a long term tear in the rubber over the sharp edge.

You will also find a 8 foot sheet is too short to go from wall to wall which is 8 ft across. The arch of the rafter makes the length about 1/2" +/- too short. To deal with that gap, split the difference on both sides.

See this post for how I use butyl tape to fill the plywood gap to the side wall and go down the wall to bond the rubber. Scroll down until you see it
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f7...tml#post149286

It will start with this pic showing how to fill that gap


Hope this helps

John

[Fred54]

Thank you John, I think I will go with the 1/8 inch Luan is there any specific type you recommend? The 6-foot section is in the back and it's the entire 8 foot wide. What type of screws would you recommend with that and what width of butyl tape?

[Fred54]

Thank you Steve I appreciate it.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Fred54

Thank you John, I think I will go with the 1/8 inch Luan is there any specific type you recommend? The 6-foot section is in the back and it's the entire 8 foot wide. What type of screws would you recommend with that and what width of butyl tape?

Hi Fred,

Getting 1/8" luan hardwood plywood can be search and destroy mission now a days. Years ago, it was very common as was paneling.

When I needed 1/8" unfinished luan I had to order it on special order through the lumber yard. In my case it was Menards. Don't know if you have them there in your area, but the other stores I'm sure can get it. I bought about 10 sheets as I was also going to use it as wallboard on one of my project campers and since there was packing charge on the special order, that charge was the same for 1 sheet or 10. So I opted for the 10. I tried tonight to find it and can't. I bought it 3 years ago. They may have stopped selling it. If you are going to use the 1/8", it should have no voids, needs to be actual wood for the Dicor glue to work (not pressboard), ideally exterior glue but you can use interior glue if that is all you can get. Budboard was not exterior so the interior glue will work.

If you cannot find the 1/8", the next option is the 3/16". This is not really luan, but it is flooring underlayment. And while I call it 3/16" it is a nominal 1/4" that measures 0.190" to 210. It is a lot closer to 3/16 then 1/4".

What I have used is this product. It is solid, exterior glue and hard wood veneer. https://integrawood.com/integraply/
I bought it here. https://www.menards.com/main/buildin...4441905352.htm

You will have to sand the last few inches on a taper where you blend into the old roof. You may not have that brand in your area, but solid floor underlayment in the 3/16" range does exist in other brands. Again, their 1/4" nominal is more like a real 3/16"

On the back wall short membrane issue, I would recommend after you use butyl tape and the rear wall molding, and Dicor lap sealant caulk it, After 1 month off gassing time, to use 4" wide Eternabond tape over the top of the molding, the caulk and onto the rubber. Should do this even with the 1/8" as the rubber will have shrunk some. If you need help on this, ask I have pics ertc on how to do it.

The screws, on the 1/8" luan you are going to have to find a no 6. flat head sheet metal screws, 1" long works well, if they are 1 1/4 as that is all you can find, it will work too. The issue is, the 1/8" plywood is so thin the head of the screw can be thicker than the plywood. I pointed you to the sheet metal screw as it can have a thinner head. See here for what I mean https://www.boltdepot.com/Sheet_meta...d_steel_6.aspx Regardless you have to countersink in place and the C sink may kiss into the rafter a tiny amount.

If you use the 3/16 underlayment, then no 6, by 1 or 1 1/4" flat head construction screws. These have larger OD heads, larger pitch threads and are made for wood. See here what I mean. Still have to countersink in place but more meat to work with. https://www.menards.com/main/hardwar...4924536&ipos=6

You do not have to buy the screws from those 2 places, I linked them so you can see what I'm talking about.

Since the board is so thin, either of them, you are going to have to really screw it down. The pitch on the screws is about every 4 to 5". The underlayment has X's marking the pitch. They want it that close to help prevent buckling of the wood. This is a thin plywood issue. This does not happen on say 3/8" and thicker.

I caution to not use staples when you are spanning plywood from rafter to rafter. While Sunline did staple 1/8" luan reinforcement sheets down, they did not span over 2 or more rafters. They only stapled the short pieces on one side. The issue is, on a roof plywood, staples can and will over time back out when the sheet and staples span over 2 or more rafters. When they lift, they can put stress points in the rubber, later leading to potential holes. The camper towing flexes, and when 2 or more rafters are screwed onto the same sheet of wood, the flexing twists within the sheet and the staples can start backing out over time. If you wanted to staple it, you have to find some type of anti back out staple if such and staple exists. I have seen myself standard staples back out in a camper setting. So I do it the long way and screw it down.

On the butyl tape, I use 1/8" thick x 1" wide. I use the GSSI brand MB-10A. I buy it from here. You have other options in your area. https://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=19987

Here is the mfg site direct. Look for the MB-10A Products — GSSI Sealants, Inc.

If you need more, ask away.

[Fred54]

Hi John,
Once I glue the rubber roof back down what type staples and gun would you recommend to re-staple the rubber that hangs over back into the siding/wood?

[JohnB]

You can use 1/4 or 5/16 wide by 7/8” to 1 1/8” long staples. I think they are 18 gauge. I am away from the shop right now to check exact gauge. Make sure you staple close to the roof line about 1/4” down from the very top edge of the siding. Don’t go down a lot further on the wall. The gutter molding and butyl tape has to cover the heads of the staples and still have adequate sealing.

Feel the heads of the staples that they are smooth to the siding. Tap heads with hammer to make flush as needed.

Also do not stretch the rubber. Just tug slightly to take out slack and then staple.

[johnnybgood]

Also, you can get staples in stainless steel.

[Fred54]

After stapling the sides have you ever used eternal Bond tape in instead of the butyl tape?
I thought maybe I could put it over the flap and stick it to the side of the trailer to give it a tight seal and then put the molding back over top.

[Fred54]

While repairing my roof I have decided to remove the skylight in the bedroom because it it was damaged any way. My question is how do I repair that section of roof which is approximately 16," by 16". Do I just cut out a new piece of EPDM glue it down and put Eternal Bond tape around the seams ?

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Fred54

After stapling the sides have you ever used eternal Bond tape in instead of the butyl tape?
I thought maybe I could put it over the flap and stick it to the side of the trailer to give it a tight seal and then put the molding back over top.

Hi Fred

When repairing the roof without the budboard on the rubber, you should use butyl tape on the siding and the put the cleaned off old rubber over the butyl and then staple it. Only need to staple enough to hold rubber in place until the gutter rail goes on.

Then more butyl tape goes in the back side of the gutter rail to seal the rubber and screw threads to the rubber and the camper.

I use a lot of eternabond, just entire to stick the rubber to the siding. The butyl tape is much thicker and creates a seal to the threads of the screws as they go in. The tightening of the screws forces it to mash out all over and seal.

While the ebond is very good, I cannot see how it would help make it better then the butyl in this gutter rail install application. I can see it and I do use it I er the top of the gutter rail screws and over onto the roof after the Dicor lap sealant cures with take a good 3 weeks. I wait at least a month for the dicor to gas’s off before ebonding it

Hope this helps

John

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Fred54

While repairing my roof I have decided to remove the skylight in the bedroom because it it was damaged any way. My question is how do I repair that section of roof which is approximately 16," by 16". Do I just cut out a new piece of EPDM glue it down and put Eternal Bond tape around the seams ?

Hi Fred

I’m assuming you mean the 14 x 14 crank up air vent in the bedroom?

Assuming so, most times when the vent flange is listed off the rubber, the rubber be cleaned up top surface and the bottom of the rubber glued to the new plywood you are using.

If the rubber has been damaged outside the 14 x 14 flange and the flange will not the damage, then I have used 4” wide or 6” wide ebond to repair the rubber and then mount the new vent flange over the top of the ebond. Still need to put butyl tape on the bottom of the new vent flange to seal it to the roof.

If what I explained does not match what have, please explain more or better post a picture so I understand better what you are up against

Hope this helps

John

[Fred54]

Hi John, I am in the process of redoing that section over top of the bedroom and I am doing away with that 14 inch by 14 inch vent and making it a solid roof.
I am left with a 14 inch by 14 inch opening in the rubber that needs to be patched what would be the best way to patch that opening?

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Fred54

Hi John, I am in the process of redoing that section over top of the bedroom and I am doing away with that 14 inch by 14 inch vent and making it a solid roof.
I am left with a 14 inch by 14 inch opening in the rubber that needs to be patched what would be the best way to patch that opening?

Hi Fred,

Ok got it now. Sorry miss understood your question

I would clean up the original roof and get the top white layer clean of all old butyl tape.

I would do the next in a 2 part process.

First, mark off, trace, the plywood so you know where the edges of the old 14 x14 opening is on the plywood. You are doing this to try and not get the glue on that opening spot on the plywood. Reason is for later to not has glue dried up on that location. Read on

Glue the original roof down and press good into the rubber to get the glue all the edges of the old roof. It may want to ripple up due to all the screw holes etc in the rubber from the old bent

Let it cure overnight. Put sheet metal or plastic over the hole area with weight on top to hold roof rubber flat overnight if it will not stay flat. Make sure what you pick to insulate the weight will not stick to the Dicor glue. The Dicor water based glue needs a porus sub-straight to bind too, so metal it does not stick too. Or shouldn’t . See later about call to Dicor

Then the next day, prep a new rubber patch over the entire opening. I would use at least a 4” overlap onto old roof all the way around.

Here you need to call Dicor and ask for tech service. I have called them
before and they are helpful. Ask if their water based glue will bond to the white layer of their EPDM roofing. It is made to bond to the black side but I myself do not know if it will bind to the shedding white layer. Confirm how they say to glue to the white layer or you have to scrub, sand the white off down to black. Be careful the black layer is very thin

Now you can glue to the fresh plywood in the old bent opening and onto the old roof per Dicor’s instruction.

After 2 days and the glue is all dried, I would use 4”. Eternabond to cover to perimeter of the new patch. 2” on new rubber and 2” on old rubber. Then you know that seam edge will not get affected

A very light bead of Dicor sealant on the exposed edges of the EBond will stop dirt from sticking to that exposed sealant edge

Hope this helps

John