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Old 09-20-2017, 08:19 PM   #1
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Repairs & Observations on our "New-To-Us" T-279SR

Hello all,
This thread is somewhat a continuation from the introduction forum, titled

"New Member looking at a 2005 279SR to Purchase".

That thread was taking on new dimensions as a "Repair? / Help! thread;
I thought it best to move over to this forum; and boy do I have questions!

I posted up a few "before cleaning" roof pictures over in the other thread.
I thought the initial "after cleaning" results looked promising - that is; until I took a gander at the pics of the roof John B posted up in his reply post!
That T264SR roof you "brought back" sure came out nice!

I was going to ask the same question as Sunline Fan; asking how you got it so white?
I just read your reply - it looks to be quite a process, however, the final results are phenomenal!
The bleach evidently doesn't harm the EPDM membrane, when diluted as you described?
Also, the runoff from the roof won't streak the sides of the trailer?

John, your response of "oh boy" to me pressure washing the roof of my T-279SR was a kind way of telling me that's a no-no!
(I pressure washed my Lance Truck Camper many times, but it had an aluminum walk-on roof).
I did use caution around the seams and caulking, along with discretion overall, on the rest of the trailer.

It's also very apparent I have more cleaning and repairing of the roof before trying to re-coat & seal it.
In the past, I used Dicor White Rubber Roof Coating on an Aljo travel trailer with very good results. Thoughts?

Anyway, here's some pictures, after the initial cleaning:
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File Type: jpg IMG_1444.JPG (102.2 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1448.JPG (108.3 KB, 10 views)
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:02 AM   #2
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Hi Bob,

Sorry, for some odd reason your post tonight did not show up as new on my system but it see it now.

Here is a hot link back to your original post for anyone following along. New Member looking at a 2005 279SR to Purchase

The bleaching I did and to your questions, this reply. New Member looking at a 2005 279SR to Purchase

Dicor states you can use bleach but it does not give a lot of detail to it. Here are their new instructions using Tilex. https://dicorproducts.com/product/di...oofing-3/#care Tilex has 1 - 5% chlorine in it and household bleach is in the 5% area. Some now is even higher with the extra strength versions. Here is the SDS on Tilex https://www.thecloroxcompany.com/sds...ildew-remover/

Here is a hard to read copy out of my Sunline manual from Dirco where it talks about the bleach. I will get this up later in PDF format but I am running out of time tonight.


Here is the phrase I am referring too.
Quote:
Household bleach can also be used (fully concentrated) and allowed to soak into stubborn stains, then scrubbed with a medium bristle brush or cloth. Rinse thoroughly.
I used this as a guide on how to do this. I have bleached my roof on my T310SR when the mold gets to be enough I want to get rid of it, but not in the concentrations I had to do on this T-264SR as it was so bad. On my T310, I only need to do the bleaching about every 3 to 4 years as mild demold as I keep after it with routine washing's.

And yes, rinsing is key and rinse the sides of the camper too, especially decals very well.

I learned when I put Eternabond on my camper back in 2010 that you need to kill the mold on the rubber or else it will stay there almost forever once covered. I have some Dicro lap sealant down that I didn't get completely killed under it and now I can see the mold under the Dicor. I have read this about roof coatings too. Point being, if and when you do a re-coat, make sure you kill the mold that is there.

The pressure washer on the roof, I myself would not recommend this for 2 reasons.

1. Leaks, pressure forcing the water against old sealants may force itself inside. I have a pressure washer as well, with a 5 hp engine on it and I use it degrease farm machinery and concrete cleaning etc. This one is fairly high in pressure and I would not trust it on the camper. Yours may be a lower pressure unit and not as bad, but if the sealants are marginal at best, this process could create a new leak.

2. The white layer of the EPDM membrane is a chalking away surface by design. I have recently learned more about this white layer from the T264SR repair I just did for my friend. I was shocked so see how much of the white layer was missing before I ever started washing the roof. When I took up the end seam moldings you could see a step in the white layer that can be measured it was so much. And it was not worn due to overwashing as the prior owner had not washed this roof in a really long time. I "suspect" the dirt and the sun UV, maybe even the mold combo along with the lack of washing has deteriorated a lot of it off the entire membrane. I can tell the rubber just does not even feel the same as a good roof. Using a pressure washer might accelerate the wear off of this white layer. When the white layer turns black, as you have now worn down to the actual EPDM layer, it means the wear has advanced enough that the roof needs to be recoated soon. The rubber layer is still intact creating a water seal, but the wear is now to a point recoating needs to occur before wear starts down into the actual EPDM layer.

At this point, I do not think you did any more damage to the roof that was not already there before you bought it with your washer. The path forward now is how to fix what you have.

Here are 2 ways to think through. These may help spark other ideas on your end.

1. Fix all leaks in the existing roof system. This means finding all leaks, opening up those areas, correct the rot, get out the deteriorated bud board, clean off the rubber in those areas, put down 1/8" luan as a substrate to blend into the existing bud board, reglue the old membrane to the new luan and address all sealants and seams.

2. Remove the whole budboard roof, install a new substrate of your choice, (1/8" luan up to 3/8" plywood), install a new membrane and address all sealants and seams. This method finds every leak in the old roof system allowing repair and it resets the time clock on the membrane that you can control the future care of it.

I know this is a difficult choice on how to go forward. Something that will help make it easier to decide is getting the moisture meter and scanning the whole ceiling, the top side walls all the way around the perimeter of the camper and down under the camper scanning up at the black Darco. This will then help tell you how the rest of the camper is.

Right now you know about the back wall. That really is not a major effort for your skills but it will take time. This area you have plans to address. If you know you have 1 or 2 other locations that are wet, you can open up that area and sort out how good or not those areas are to fix. There will be a point when you come to, do I take the whole roof off or just deal with these 1 or 3 etc areas and then go down the recoating route? Recoating may need to be redone at the 5 year interval pending which coating you use. Not a major thing to do a re-coat, but it does need to be done.

To give you a point of reference, this 2005 T-264SR I just finished helping my friend with had the total back wall redo, the rear left and right wall to take apart and fix and the budboard roof in the back had a 12" by 24" wet spot to deal with. The front left corner, had a minor leak, not a lot of wood reconstruction but had a budboard repair that was like a 24" radius on that corner. This repair and fixing a bunch of other things on the camper took approx. 141 work hours to complete.

A total roof replacement with 5/16" walk on roof surface on this same size camper took approx 264 work hours and it too had other upgrades work to it. This was my son's 2006 T264SR roof replace we linked you too early on.

Your repair may be something similar or smaller if you only have the back wall to deal with.

The difference between the 2 roof options, had other factors involved. In the roof replace situation, this camper was wanted to be kept for a good long time. 20 plus years and they gained a walk on roof. It made sense to do a total roof reset in this case plus the labor was free.

The bud board repair method and keep the original roof came from a cost stand point. It is cheaper to do that smaller level of leak repair then a total re-roof. My friend was not looking at a 10 or 20 year plan and could deal with a roof recoat in a few years when the white layer starts to show deterioration enough it needs a recoat. This repair is a sound one, just the long term life is different.

I know this is a lot to absorb.... and you have not even camped in the trailer yet.... It appears the dealer did a recaulking on the suspect spots. I can see them. However they did not do the gutter rails and I can't see what they did on the rear seam over the back wall. I'm assuming they caulked this and hopefully did the front seam too. If they stopped the leaks from any new water, you have some time to sort this out. You can camp in the camper for a while as you sort out what the long term approach will be. The rot in a few months will not be any worse then it is now. But hopefully all the leaks have stopped.

Hopefully this gives you some things to think through on how to approach this and create a plan that works for you. The choice is yours and we are here to support you which ever way you go.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:04 AM   #3
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How zoomed in are you on this pic? Trying to get a level of scale to the cracks , depth of them and the deterioration. Any chance of placing a ruler in the pic can retake it?

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Old 09-22-2017, 09:13 PM   #4
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John,
Thanks for sharing the roof cleaning recommendations from Dicor - that's going to be very useful to reference, for sure!

Replacing the complete roof is without a doubt, the preferred repair;
however, at this time, I'm going to shoot for repairing the damaged areas.
The two driving factors are time and cost.

I'd like to have the repairs complete before Winter sets in, but am not quite ready to undertake the task at hand, due to another project on a 1995 Lincoln Continental currently in progress, I need to finish first.

I eventually hope to add a concrete pad with a metal RV carport alongside the driveway, to at least somewhat protect the trailer from the elements. I'll be more receptive to tackling the complete roof once the trailer is "covered".

My hope currently is to salvage the existing roof, and repair the water damage that has already occurred.

I finally purchased a moisture meter, and did some quick checks ; sure enough, the rear wall corners are wet, and there's some slight wet readings in the upper front corners as well.
Overall, the trailer is dry, according to the moisture meter. I'll try to post some pics this weekend...
That's going to prove to be a very useful addition to the "tool collection"
Now I can't imagine how I managed without one!

As far as the "zoomed in" picture, it was taken about 10" off the roof surface, but I'll take another shot with a ruler for clarity.

I'm ok with not having camped in the trailer yet; I'm still "dialing it in".
Still "exploring and learning" about it - rather find any surprises while it's in the driveway, with my garage and tools close by

I found the cold water supply fitting at the kitchen faucet was cracked & leaking.
A trip to Lowe's for a PEX pipe fitting & crimp tool was in order...
I have some pics of that repair I'll post up soon.

Thanks for all your help thus far;
The other threads I've been reading have answered some of my questions as well; am very much enjoying learning all I can!
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Old 09-27-2017, 06:07 PM   #5
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Hi Bob,

Sorry so long getting back to you. We were doing what all good campers do, camp!

Glad the moisture meter is cooperating for you. Yes, it is a good tool for the camper. There is a small learning curve on how and where to use it, and what can give it a false reading, however if there is a wet location from water damage, it had high odds of finding it with some know how.

I just completed a bud board roof repair on a friends camper and have some pic's. If I do not get my post up by then, let me know I can upload a few to help the cause.

So your restoring a Lincoln, Did you do this with the F250 as well?

Let us know when the time comes if you need a sounding board on the camper repairs. Glad to help as we can.

Thanks

John
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:53 PM   #6
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I've not added any posts for a little while, due to other "projects", not Sunline related, that are currently on-going...
I purchased the moisture meter, but have yet to try it out in depth, due to my Work schedule during the week, and the Lincoln repairs on the weekends.
I just completed replacing the timing chains on my wife's 1998 Lincoln, and will replace the heater coil next (Dash has to be removed for access). Also had to remove the exhaust Y-pipe in order to remove the oil pan to clean the debris from the timing chain guides. Grrr!!!

I really want to get back to the Sunline, but it has to "wait-it's-turn"...

The rear tank of my 1988 F250 sprung a pinhole leak, so I'll use that as an opportunity to replace the factory 19 gal tank with a replacement 38 gal tank, making the total on-board fuel capacity 56 gallons! Woo-Hoo! New tank is ordered at 1/2 price off eBay - We'll see how that install goes...

So, now back to some more observations on the T-279SR;
Just as you said JohnB, the rear wall at the bottom is all but rotted away- there's no structure wood in the right bottom corner to approximately 1/3 way across the back. I'll be tearing into that wall from the outside in, hopefully in the Spring, if not sooner. Your pictures on repairs you've done to various trailers are a huge help!
Not sorry at all in purchasing this unit; still assessing what it needs...

The front marker lights didn't work when we towed it home - the dealer offered to make repairs, but I knew we'd be "pushing daylight" if we didn't leave soon, so I opted to forego the repair - the rear lights worked fine.
That turned out to be an easy fix; the front left side marker light had the "junction feed" to the upper front lights and the R/S maker light. The wires had come loose in the wire nut connector the factory used. took all of 20 minutes to repair, .
Also, the tires AND Rims appear to have been replaced. I imagine the previous owner had to replace the tires to move the trailer from it's "permanent site" in PA to tow the trailer to his home in New Jersey.

Tires are ST225, instead of ST205 on the data plate. OH YEAH! Love the "upgrade". DOT date-code of 46th week of 2016. That's Great News! I'll pull the wheels & check the brakes before taking the trailer camping.
I read your upgrade post on the brake wiring, JohnB. Thanks for posting!
Here's the link I'm referring to:
Independent Brake Wire Feed Upgrade

This post is getting lengthy, so I'll end by posting up a few pics...
( The marker light mounting screws are rusted; NOT a good sign, will have to delve deeper)...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1493.jpg (60.1 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1494.jpg (82.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1495.jpg (106.5 KB, 6 views)
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:37 PM   #7
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I rewired the brakes on our T-264SR this spring, I did it a little different. I purchased 10 AWG 2 wire with an outer jacket marine wire. I opened the front junction box and ran down both sides of the frame and went to each axle. The 2 wire allowed me to have a good ground as well as power. No junction box needed and wire didn't need a sleeve added since it had outer jacket. If I have time tomorrow I'll get some pics.

After the rewire I turned down my brake controller 2 settings. The amp loss in the factory wire is huge.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPC View Post
IThe front marker lights didn't work when we towed it home - the dealer offered to make repairs, but I knew we'd be "pushing daylight" if we didn't leave soon, so I opted to forego the repair - the rear lights worked fine.
That turned out to be an easy fix; the front left side marker light had the "junction feed" to the upper front lights and the R/S maker light. The wires had come loose in the wire nut connector the factory used. took all of 20 minutes to repair, .


Also, the tires AND Rims appear to have been replaced. I imagine the previous owner had to replace the tires to move the trailer from it's "permanent site" in PA to tow the trailer to his home in New Jersey.

Tires are ST225, instead of ST205 on the data plate. OH YEAH! Love the "upgrade". DOT date-code of 46th week of 2016. That's Great News! I'll pull the wheels & check the brakes before taking the trailer camping.
I read your upgrade post on the brake wiring, JohnB. Thanks for posting!
Here's the link I'm referring to:
Independent Brake Wire Feed Upgrade
Hi Bob,

I'll pass along a few things I learned along the way on lights and wiring.

The body marker lights, rusty screws. Yes, another path for a leak. I have converted to stainless screws on them. And did 2 other things to help ward off future leaking.

1. Put drain holes in the bottom of the lenses. All of them, the red and amber ones. I used a 7/64" drill bit and drilled 2 small holes on the bottom side. I found several that where filled with water. In time the len's crack, water gets in and can't get out. So they totally fill up in the worst case and then can get into the camper and insulation through the bulb socket. While I had the water in the lens, I caught them before they leaked in the bulb socket. It is not if these type of lens will crack, it is when. And some have water in them and you cannot see the crack.

See the 2 small holes in the bottom.


This post has more on the leaking marker lights. Also Bargmen stopped making this series of light but I did find a direct replacement on Etrailer for them. I bought some and they are a direct fit using the same holes. These are the red ones but they offer the amber too https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Lig...cs/MC48RB.html

Ideal is to upgrade to a waterproof sealed LED setup but the screw holes will not match and the above ones are low cost.

Also, run a bead of Dicor non sag (non leveling) caulk over the top and sides of the light to seal the lens to the camper. The foam gasket will not hold long term. Leave the bottom unsealed to let out any moisture trapped in the gasket area.

2. Tires, something is not adding up. Did you find ST205/75R15 LR C (50psi max)somewhere on the camper name plate? If so that is an error. Your camper has a 8,600# GVWR correct? Sunline would of (should of) put ST225/75R15 load range D (65 psi max) on that camper. The tire OD of those 2 tires and the weight rating is very different between the 2. The 205's can't handle the load.

3. The independent brake wire upgrade. Yes, that is a very worthwhile upgrade. You can then get full power back to each brake coil. A few things I learned since that post in 2009. You can still do what I did with single strand, it works great but I learned a few new things since.

1st, run a new 10 awg. ground from the 7 wire truck cord back to the brake area direct. Do not rely on a frame ground. Over time, corrosion sets in and the frame ground goes bad and then it starts robbing current from reaching the brakes. I upgraded this on mine this spring after I found the main aluminum ground bus bar corroded off the frame up front. These bare aluminum things are bad news on an open camper frame long term. A little road salt left over in the spring time gets on them and they corrode quickly. This link will drop you in the middle of my frame repair thread showing the corroded main frame ground bus bar connection. A Winter Project - Slide Opening, Frame Repair (Picture heavy)

2nd, this is to add to BenB's comments below. Since the need is to deal with getting both a good ground and full voltage/current to each brake coil, an option in place of running single strand 10 awg wire to each coil like I did in 2009, is to run 2 strand tinned marine cable. You do this by running a separate cable down each side of the camper starting at the frame header area, a ground and the brake hot wire. You can tap in at the plastic junction box on the header. (heads up before opening that box there are tiny Phillips screws buried deep inside) At the first axle, just skin back the insulation and solder on a pigtail cable lead to jump to the first brake coil, then continue to the second axle and never cut the main 2 wire cable. Just make sure the pigtail leads are long enough to allow full suspension travel. This way, each side has it's own ground and power line and you do not have to cross over the axle tube left to right. Yes this uses a little more wire, but it make a really clean install.

This is the wire we are referring to. They sell it by the foot it appears. I can't recommend buying from them as I have never used them. Proceed with caution if you do.
https://tinnedmarinewire.com/wire/in...12f17fc30d8c7e

We bought a roll from Amazon as we have a few trailers to do. https://www.amazon.com/Ancor-Marine-...ire&th=1&psc=1

If the brakes are adjusted up where they are suppose to be, you will feel and see a large jump in braking performance by just upgrading the wire and it eliminates all the issues over time with the standard axle wiring setup in the axle tube. Odds are high, you will need to turn down the gain on the brake controller after this upgrade.

I do not have any pics of the marine cable install, but BenB may be able to get some. I will not be doing my T-1950 or my flat bed trailer upgrade until some time next spring.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:36 AM   #9
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Agreed, these should have been 225 tires from the factory, with 15x6, 6 lug wheels. Sunline only had the two types that year- 225 tires with 6 lug wheels, and 205 tires with 5 lug wheels. You couldn't have an upgrade like that without changing axles.

In looking back at your old pics, the wheels and tires look new, but the hubcaps are factory. They look like the larger 6 lug style too, not the smaller 5 lug version. They just twist counter clockwise to remove/unsnap from the lug nuts, whereas I think the 5 lug version may push on.

The wheels aren't factory because Sunline never used the type with the red and blue stripe. These look like mounted tire/wheel packages bought from somewhere like Etrailer.

Also, those hubcaps are chrome, and can be polished back up with some fine steel wool. They look about ten years overdue
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:28 PM   #10
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Here are some quick pics of the brake wire upgrade. Inside the junction box remove single old power wire and wire nut in the 2 new wires. On the frame I removed the factory ground bus, gets corroded after 10+ years. Replaced with stainless bolt and tied in all the grounds. I ran the wire in the existing holes to the back. Skinned back wire at front axle and spliced in a short piece, soldered heat shrink and tapes.

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Old 10-05-2017, 06:51 PM   #11
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You all are Awesome!
I love reading and learning from SOC.

The brake wiring upgrade description (and pics), along with the links for materials will be very helpful when I do the upgrade on my Sunline.

The tire size on my trailer are in fact ST225/75R15 load range D tires from the factory - I checked the data plate on the L/S of the trailer this evening after work.
Even though the data placard is weathered, the printing is still legible.
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