Sunline RV Forum
Sunline User Photos

Go Back   Sunline Coach Owner's Club > Technical Forums > Repairs and Maintenance
Click Here to Login

Join Sunline Club Forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-09-2009, 09:59 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 34
SUN #637
thesteigers
Questions about brake maintenance...

I've read through a number of posts about how to check brakes on tandem TTs and I have a couple of questions, that I wanted to clarify before I take the wheels off.

1 - Do you have to un-seat and repack the bearings and races when you check the breaks? I am likely going to do this anyway since it needs to be done and since we are full-timing we are putting some mileage on the trailer, but just curious.

2 - If you find a bearing or race is bad I have read that you need to have an autoshop "press" the new race and bearing assembly for you. Can anyone explain this to me? Is this something that I would have to take the trailer to them for, or could they do that with just the new bearing and race?

3 - When adjusting the brakes how do you determine if they are adjusted correctly? I assume its based on spinning the wheel assemble, but what do you look for?

4 - If the brakes need to be replaced should both sets on the axle be done at the same time, or can they be done independently? I have also read that you have to burnish new breaks by stopping a number of times from fairly slow speeds to get them fitted to the drums and broken in, is there information on that anywhere?

Thanks for your help,

--Tom
__________________

__________________
thesteigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 11:46 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
Tom,

First, we need to know what kind of axles you have on your Sunline. I am presuming drum brakes because I have seen very few disc brakes on TT's.

A lot of the axles are Dexters but there are other brands as well. My '99 has the Dexters and has been very easy to work on.

If you have Dexters or just want to read an informative shop manual on trailer brakes and axles, go to: http://www.dexteraxle.com/products___literature
There are three groups of drop down menus. In the middle group, Trailer Axles (Service Information) the first drop down is 600-800K. Click on that and pick "Complete Service Manual". It is a .pdf file and contains full instructions for all the things you asked about if you have Dexter axles.

I believe most manufacturers have similar resources available online.

The manual covers drum and disc brakes plus regular, ez-lube, and never-lube axles.

If you have Dexters (or really similar axles and drum brakes), the answers to your questions are:

1. If you are just adjusting the brakes, you do that the old fashioned way through an access slot on the backside of the brakes with an adjuster tool. If you pull the hubs to examine the brakes, magnet, and drums, yes the outside bearing usually falls into your hand. Sometimes the inboard one does too. Most of us plan brake inspection and bearing packing as an annual spring time job. Some may have self-adjusting brakes so it is worth it to check the manual against your actual gear.

2. On my Dexters, if there is a bad bearing and no damage to the hub or axle, then it is a simple matter of buying a new bearing. For the Dexters, there is a torque seating of the bearings that you have to do any time you re-install the hub, but it is an easy driveway job.

3. When I adjust the Dexter brakes, I jack up the the axle just enough to spin the wheel and then adjust the starwheel until the brakes just begin to drag and then back off a tiny bit so that the wheel spins without noise or drag. If I can get all four wheels off the ground at the same time, I check for about the same amount of drag on each wheel before backing off. I think that may be in the manual.

4. Unless you have unusual brake wear on one hub, you'll probably find about the same wear on both ends of the axle, and if they're down, replace them both. FWIW, my '99 has about 25K miles on it, and there is still plenty of brake pad left on all four.

The burnish technique is described on page 32 of the Dexter manual.

One final comment... The only thing I can think of that would mean a trip to the brake shop is if the drums needed to be turned, at least for my Dexters. If there is no damage to anything, then it's all fairly easy to do right in the driveway and not a lot of special tools required. A torque wrench, drift punch, and brake adjuster tool are the specialty tools needed.
__________________

__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 01:02 PM   #3
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,165
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Re: Questions about brake maintenance...

Hi Tom

Steve gave you the straight scoop. Good info there.

Iíll add a few things. First what year and model Sunline do you have? And do you have Torque flex rubber suspension axles or do you have leaf springs?

The Dexter verses Al-Ko I have both brands and there are only minor difference between them. The differences are in the way the parts are mode, not how they adjust or are put together.

In addition to the Al-ko or Dexter manual, both which are good, here is a Picture posts of my T2499 being greased and brake adjusted. I never made it to creating a post here on SOC for it yet , but will as I wanted to add to it how to deal with leak spring suspension and how to get your shackles to flop to the way the should be. Maybe your post here in need is a good, hey John get on with it and get it over hereÖ

Annual Brake Inspection and Axle Re - Lube (Pic's)

Between the manuals, steve input and that post, it about answers all your questions. But by all means ask again here if something is not clear.

Iíll do a quick insert for answers in your questions in blue


Quote:
Originally Posted by thesteigers
I've read through a number of posts about how to check brakes on tandem TTs and I have a couple of questions, that I wanted to clarify before I take the wheels off.

1 - Do you have to un-seat and repack the bearings and races when you check the breaks? I am likely going to do this anyway since it needs to be done and since we are full-timing we are putting some mileage on the trailer, but just curious.

Just because you pull the drum does not mandate repacking with grease it and in it self. However you have already tore into it and now is a good time to inspect the bearings and put new grease in. You are about 60% of the way done just getting the drum off. I would add if you pull a drum that inside grease seal ideally should be replaced even if you are not changing the grease pending the age of it. If the seal has any cracks in it or and nicks on the sealing surfaces, grease can fly out into the brakes.

Now I want to quantify the any time you pull a drum. If the seal is brand new, you put the drum on, opps I have to take it off again, well then there is no need for a new seal, but still every time it comes off, check the seal for nicks. If a year goes by or more between brake drum pulls, then yes I say put a new seal in. Get the double seal with the garter springs. If you search around they only cost like $3 each. Or $10 pending store


2 - If you find a bearing or race is bad I have read that you need to have an autoshop "press" the new race and bearing assembly for you. Can anyone explain this to me? Is this something that I would have to take the trailer to them for, or could they do that with just the new bearing and race?

If you have a bad race, if you have a long drift punch you can knock it out. On install this is ideally pressed in slow and square. A shop press or arbor press is the perfect way however being creative you can do other things.

Pressing can occur many ways. After it getís gently started square in the bore, put a block of wood on it and a bottle jack and slide it under a TT frame or truck or tractor and slow press. Once the wood bottoms out, ideally a large socket can be used to extend the push. You can also press in by using a piece of all thread rod to go thru the bore and put a plate on each and crank it in. Lastly, find a large socket to fit the race just right or other square surface round object and tap ever so gently with a hammer on the socket backed with a small piece of wood. This takes extreme care so the bearing race does not twist on the way in. End goal is it ďmustĒ be down dead flat against the housing bore to be set in true.


3 - When adjusting the brakes how do you determine if they are adjusted correctly? I assume its based on spinning the wheel assemble, but what do you look for?

My link shows this, you basically go until very fine light drag occurs. Most times you go past this and back up as yo ahve to bottom out first then back off. Key is getting all 4 equal. Regardless of how good you are, a temp check tells a lot. Once you get done, brakes seated, burnished etc drive around, do about 5 or so stops and do a level of brake drum feeling for heat. Carefull you can burn your finger pending a tight wheel. If you have one tighter then the rest it will grab first and try to stop the entire TT. And as such it will heat fast. When this occurs, crawl under and back off about 2 clicks and try again. When you get it right all 4 are the same temp. There is also the gravel test that I talk about in that link. Until you know for sure they are all equal, do the temp test. I do this often unilt I know all 4 are equal.

4 - If the brakes need to be replaced should both sets on the axle be done at the same time, or can they be done independently? I have also read that you have to burnish new breaks by stopping a number of times from fairly slow speeds to get them fitted to the drums and broken in, is there information on that anywhere?

yes my 2 cents is replace all 4 at one time. And yes you do have to burnish them in. AND after the first 200 miles after new shoes, you have to re-adjust, three is one lot of slop that goes on in that 1st 200 miles. After that you are good for about 3,000 to 5,000 miles. You can tell in your brake controller, your needing more gain to stop the thing.

Thanks for your help,

--Tom
Here is what a blown grease seal looks like. I found this when I pulled my new to me camper apart this spring. And these are the old standard pack grease hubs. Not the EZ lube. Some one nicked the seal on the way on. And yes the brakes where full of the yuk.




Good luck and let us know how it goes.
John
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 05:41 PM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 34
SUN #637
thesteigers
Thanks much for the help. This lets me know what I am in for. I'm going to be using some space a friends house since we are halfway across the country from "home" so I wanted to know what to expect before I tore into this.

The trailer is a 2004 Solaris T-2199. Again thanks for the help and I'll be spending tonight working my way through those manuals.

One more quick question - What is a drift punch?

Thanks,
--Tom
__________________
thesteigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2009, 05:46 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drift_pin

__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 08:06 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
jpspaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 148
SUN #824
jpspaz
adjusted my brakes

I'm a little behind on maintenance and with poor brake performance I decided to adjust my brakes. I followed the Al Ko instructions, but they still don't seem to be stopping well. After adjustment, the wheels spin about 3/4 turn when spun by hand as the instructions state. I checked the manual on my brake controller and it says that the wheels should lock up when the manual lever is used to apply the trailer brakes only at about 25 mph. It then says to back off a bit to just before lock up and the brakes are appropriately set. I can't seem to get it to lock up. The brakes are applying, but not hard enough. Anyone have any suggestions? I am planning on pulling the drums in the next week or two.
__________________
2006 T-267SR
jpspaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:59 PM   #7
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,165
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Hi Jpspaz

What brake controller do you have? Many have a gain setting on them. The more gain the more power comes out when the manual lever is fully depressed.

Now to the TT. Something that can be a quick trouble shooting tool is to figure out if all 4 wheels are actually braking. It could be one is not working at all or more then 1.

A quick drag test will help tell if all 4 are working or not and if they are adjusted even to all stops at one time verses 1 grabbing quicker.

Try this. Ideally find a gravel road. My drive way is gravel so this works perfect on it.

Have a helper with you as a spotter.

UN plug the 7 wire cord from the back of the truck. This is a must as some brake controllers cannot take a back feed of current.

Pull the emergency break away cable. You now have full power to the brakes. No controller at all in the equation. Hop in the truck.

VERY slowly just try to roll forward the truck. After about 2 to 3inches (less if the brakes are tight) of TT movement forward the brakes should start to lock. Have your spotter looking at all 4 wheels. You really do not have to drag the TT. This entire thing can be easily accomplish on gravel and not skid the TT much if any.

If all wheels are locked it will be very hard to even move the TT. Again you do not have to drag the TT and I advise to not really drag it. Again 1Ē of movement on gravel will leave one big pile of dust in front of the tire that is locked. If all 4 have a dust pile, well they are working even if the spotter missed it as it happens real quick. No little dust pile in front of tire then it never locked.

If all 4 wheels lock on the gravel drag test, put the emerg break away pin back in. Plug in the 7 wire. Back the truck up about 6Ē to 1 foot to unlock the brakes if they are stuck against the drum. Now try that same forward drag test using the manual button. It should do the same thing. If not then you are not getting enough power to the brakes via the controller.

Do not leave the emerg break away pulled too long. 1 to 2 minutes is OK, but do not leave on for 5 minutes at a time. The coils will start to heat up.

If you do not have any gravel, well you can still try this just be extra care full to not drag the tries on bare pavement. Trust me, the truck will fell like hooked to a tree stump if all 4 are locked. If you start rolling forward and no locking is attempted, then the brakes on the TT are not working right and you need to dig deeper to what is going on there. Bad ground is the first possible if all 4 are not working good. If only 1 or 2 wheels are not working, well it can still be a ground but on that one axle. These are all clues to where to start next.

From what you described, I would attempt the drag test before pulling the drums. Then you know in 5 minutes real quick how good or not they are working.

Good luck. This test will point you (us) where to tell you next to go looking. It separates the truck brake supplied power from the TT brakes themselves. If all lock by break away and by brake controller in the drag test, then odds point to the brake controller or truck wiring. Static breaking is easier then dynamic (rolling) braking.

Hope this helps

John

PS If your TT is closer to fully loaded with weight, meaning at the full 8,600#, the drag test should still lock the wheels. However 25 to 30MPH all 4 wheels may not lock. 1 real tight wheel grabbing first will, but all 4, not always. That is if full amps are leaving the truck and making it to the brakes.
__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 08:37 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 34
SUN #637
thesteigers
Can anybody give me suggestions for what to use to degrease the bearings? I don't seem to find a product specifically for that. I've been recommended using diesel fuel, choke and carb cleaner or electric motor cleaner. The later two come in spray cans and seem like they would be a pain. I was thinking it would be something I could soak the bearings and races in.

--Tom
__________________
thesteigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 10:16 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
luvrque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 230
SUN #517
luvrque
TOM,

To degrease bearings I put them in a jar or can and add gas, swirl them around for a minute. Then wipe them dry with a white cotton rag, let them dry in the sun or furnace room or such. Wipe them again. It is very fast. This may not be how to do it today but I have been doing it like that for over 50 yrs.
__________________
Joe & Donna

2007 Que RE
2011 Tahoe LTZ.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...orums/Qsig.jpg
luvrque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 02:39 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesteigers
Can anybody give me suggestions for what to use to degrease the bearings? I don't seem to find a product specifically for that. I've been recommended using diesel fuel, choke and carb cleaner or electric motor cleaner. The later two come in spray cans and seem like they would be a pain. I was thinking it would be something I could soak the bearings and races in.
Tom,

You can purchase a gallon can of degreaser. I have one out in my shed. Your local auto parts store should carry it; it's where I got mine. The brand I have is Solder Seal Gunk and it is called Heavy Duty Auto Parts Cleaner II. The stuff is listed as safe enough to dip your fingers in without risk. And there is enough fluid to soak all your bearings and races at one time if you want.

I did my bearings and brakes last summer, and the stuff is magic. Cleaned 'em up in just a few minutes. I set out two dishes of the stuff. One for getting the majority of the grease, and one for a second bath to get them really clean. Magic stuff and safe to work with..

I also have a spray can of Brakleen. The label reads:
Removes Brake Fluid,
Grease and Oil
Degreases instantly
Leaves no Residue
Non-Flammable


It's a red can with a white space on the front with a picture of a disc brake. The brand is CRC. Should be available at most any auto parts store. If they don't carry CRC products, they'll have an equivalent. Spray brake cleaner is handy because you don't have to disassemble anything to clean all the parts of disc or drum brakes. You can spray the entire brake assembly and clean it right up.

I don't know what the Al-Ko manual recommends, but Dexter's maintenance manual says: Before reassembling, apply a light film of grease or anti-seize compound on the brake anchor pin, the actuating arm bushing and pin, and the areas on the backing plate that are in contact with the brake shoes and magnet lever arm. Apply a light film of grease on the actuating block mounted on the actuating arm.

I did that last summer when I did all my bearings and brakes, and it made a world of difference when it comes to adjusting the brakes. Everything moves much easier, especially the star wheel and adjuster screws.

One other thing I did that was helpful for me was to do a rough adjustment before remounting the wheels. It was a lot easier to reach behind the hub without the wheel in the way and adjust the brakes so that they were just beginning to drag. Then I mounted the wheel and just a click or two of the star wheel and they were done.
__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2009, 07:03 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
jpspaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 148
SUN #824
jpspaz
It's a Prodigy brake controller. I've never had an issue with it. I'll try locking them up and see what happens. Thanks for the tip. I'll let you know how it works out.
__________________
2006 T-267SR
jpspaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2009, 01:32 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 34
SUN #637
thesteigers
Hoping for a little more help here. I have the wheels, drums and everything off and cleaned up and I have a couple of questions.

1 - I have some roughness on the axle spindles and I am trying to figure out if this is normal or if I am going to have to have the spindles replaced. From looking at JohnB's post on RV.net it appears that his axles had a similar thing, but I want to make sure that it is ok. Pictures below:


Back spindle


Front spindle

2 - I am trying to determine what burnishing on the race of a bearing means. Below is a picture of my outside bearing and race. Both front and back axles have this small amount of discoloration on one part of the race. Is this a problem and should I replace them?


You can see the discoloration on the far side of the race

Thanks for the help on this.

--Tom
__________________
thesteigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2009, 02:38 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
Tom,

I can't really tell from the picture how much roughness there is on the spindles.

Is there any obvious damage to the bearings other than the discoloration? No feeling of roughness when you spin them in your hand?

My question is based on no lubrication, just test it dry.

It almost looks like something spun in there should should not have. When the assembly is properly torqued, the inner ring of the bearing tightens up on the spindle and is stationery in respect to the spindle. All the little spinners in the bearings roll against a matching surface in the drum as it rotates. If the inner ring of the bearing were to spin on the spindle, it could possibly wear a rough spot on the spindle and show some discoloration on itself. Since the inner ring is likely made of a much harder material than the spindle, it stands to reason that the spindle would show some wear and the bearing ring only some discoloration due to heat.

How dry was everything when you opened that assembly up? If there was no grease in the area of the wear on the spindle and it wasn't fully torqued, that might explain what happened in there.

The big question is how much damage is there? Hard to determine with out hands on. It looks like the only roughness is in that little curved area where the spindle changes diameter. Can you tell if that roughness is due to original machining of the spindle or caused by the bearing ring slipping on the spindle?

As to the burnishing procedure, that does not involve bearings and races. That procedure is done after everything is put back together. You take the TT out for a test drive, and you burnish the drums, magnet, and shoes by applying the brakes 20-30 times. Each time you need to achieve a 20 mph decrease in speed. Allow the brakes to cool in between. This allows the brake shoes and magnets to slightly "wear-in" to the drum surfaces. (Most of that language is straight from the Dexter manual.)
__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2009, 02:59 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 34
SUN #637
thesteigers
Steve -

Thanks for the quick follow up. The bearings feel very smooth and it the inside of the bearing ring just looks like it has a small amount of discoloration from heat build up, so I think the bearing assembly is fine.

As to the spindles. Its hard to say if the spindle wear is from the original machining or not. Looking at the pictures on RV.net of JohnB's it seems like his axle has similar wear, but its hard to tell. It sounds reasonable that everything wasn't torqued down properly and that the bearing rings spun a bit. There was actually a lot more grease on the spindles and bearings than I expected, but that portion of the spindle with the wear was fairly dry.

Replacing the spindles isn't something that I want to do myself to either way I'm gonna have to put the wheels back together. I guess I will keep plugging away on this and see if I can find anything else about roughness on the spindles and I'll see what the other side looks like when I get there. Worst case I will have to pay a shop here to look at it and possibly replace the spindles.

Thanks,
Tom
__________________
thesteigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2009, 06:24 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Steve Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 1,846
SUN #264
Steve Collins is an unknown quantity at this point
Tom,

I just spent a couple of minutes studying your picture of the spindle trying again to see roughness in the two areas where the bearings ride. Those two areas look just fine which is why I couldn't figure out what you were referring to as a rough area.

Then, silly me, I never looked at the larger center portion of the spindle!
OK, here is what I am seeing from left to right in your first picture.

1. The threaded end of the spindle with a hole for a cotter pin.
2. A finely machined section about 1" wide - the outer bearing seats here.
3. A section about 2-3" wide that is partly machined and partly rough.
4. Another finely machined section about 1" wide - the inner bearing seats here.
5. The radius of the spindle then increases by at least 1/4" or more and there is a final approx 1" section that is also finely machined. The inner grease seal rides on this section.

Now, to put your mind at ease.... That center section that is 2 to 3" wide, and is partly machined and partly rough is just fine. The rough area you see is smaller in diameter than the machined portion. This whole section between the two bearings is just distance to accomodate the width of the brake drum. It is partly machined only to keep it's diameter below a specific dimension so that the inner bearing can pass over that section without binding. I believe that spindle starts life as a sand casting which is then heat-treated and then machined to final shape and tolerances., The rough surface is caused by the sand that forms the basic shape of the spindle. Since that section of the spindle is a tiny bit smaller the max. allowable dimension, it didn't get machined smooth when they ran the spindle through a lathe or whatever machine they used to shape it.

Now that I think about it, my spindles have exactly the same mix of rough and machined surfaces in that center section. It came from the factory that way. Yours did too.

Thus, I think you can go ahead and use the existing bearings without worry. As long as those two areas of the spindle where the bearings seat and the area where the grease seal rides are OK, there should not be any problems with your spindles, at least as far as abnormal wear is concerned.
__________________

'12 F250 4x4 Super Duty PowerStroke 6.7 diesel
2011 to present: '11 Cougar 326MKS
1999 to 2011: '99 Sunline T-2453
SUN264 * Amateur Radio kd2iat monitoring 146.52
Steve Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2009, 11:27 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
jpspaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 148
SUN #824
jpspaz
Problem solved!

I have to give a huge thanks to you guys here on the forum. With help from my wife I discovered that only one axle was braking. I got underneath and found a broken ground wire as was suggested. I fixed it and I could stop again. No worries when we head out next weekend.
__________________
2006 T-267SR
jpspaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2009, 09:31 AM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 34
SUN #637
thesteigers
So I have pulled and repacked the bearings on all of the axles thanks in large part to the help of folks on this forum. I found a natural citrus based paint thinner that worked great as a degreaser, better in fact than the chemical dip stuff I tried first from the auto parts place.

I am working on getting the brakes adjusted and had a couple of questions. I have one wheel that seems to drag a bit in one spot as it rotates, is that symptomatic of a drum being out of round? The drums all looked fine when I pulled them and I didn't see any abnormal wear on that one to indicate that the brakes were dragging in only one place on the drum.

I did temperature checks on the brakes while doing a little road worthy test and dump run and found that I was having to turn up the gain on the brake controller a bit and also found one drum that was higher in temp and one that was lower in temp than the others. How big a temperature swing do people normally look for and worry about?

Thanks again for all the help.

--Tom
__________________
thesteigers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2009, 09:53 PM   #18
Moderator
 
JohnB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 10,165
SUN #89
JohnB is on a distinguished road
Hi Tom

Sorry so long getting back to your post here. Been doing want all good campers do. Camp!!

I see Steve fixed you up. Good. Yes that rough surface on the axle stub is part of the cast steel axle stub that did not clean up in the machining process. It is between the bearings and only touches air and grease. No problem as this can be normal.

Now to your brake adjusting questions.

Explain how you adjusted them as there are a few things that point toward you did not adjust tight enough.

I gues first to ask is, did you put new brake shoes on or just clean up the old ones? Cleaning up the old ones is perfectly OK if they still have at least 1/16Ē of lining left and are not separated from the shoe. Small heat hair line cracks in the lining are normal as declared by both AlKo and Dexter. If they are new, then we need to take an extra few steps.

Iím assuming here you cleaned up the old ones. And you said you had to adjust the brake controller I think stronger. It should/could need to be make weaker unless you are not adjusted tight enough to start with.

See here on page 13 in the Dexter manual on how tight is suppose to be.
Dexter manual PDF.

The basics are, with the wheel off the ground, tighten the adjuster until it is hard to turn the wheel or canít turn the wheel. You do not have to jam it tight but you also cannot easily pull the wheel.

Theses helps seat the just installed shoes somewhat centered. Then start backing off on the adjuster so the wheel will spin but there is a faint drag left. This ďfaint: part is like if you went about 2 more clicks it would spin totally free. Now it may be 2 clicks or it might be 3 there is not a dead science to it. If you take the drag 100% gone at this stage, once the brakes do a final seating then they can be too loose and you end up needing more brake controller power to stop.

Then go to the rest of the wheels and try to reproduce that same level of faint drag.

Also, the faint drag most times will not be a full 360 degree spin of the wheel. The faint drag may only be like 45 or some times 90 degrees of a spin. even 20 to 30 degrees occurs.

Sometimes you get real good at this and can hit all 4 dead even. It has only ever happened about twice for me. Most times after a road or drag test I still have to tweak 1 wheel slightly looser.

Which seems to be what you are seeing. All 4 wheels should brake even. After every time I adjust mine I always feel for heat after a short tow. Be carefull the brake drum can get in the 200 F plus range if you have a tight wheel. Basically I check all 4 wheels and to the hand touch, all 4 should feel the same temp. The burning hot one is doing all the stopping. It is tighter then the rest, it comes on 1st and overworks stopping the entire TT. So it over heats as it is over capacity big time. When this happens, I crawl under and simply undo 2 clicks and try again. No need to jack it up even. Point: You have to memorize which way is tight and loose to be able to do this.

Once you get that hot one out of the mix, then the rest start doing some work. Depending on how good you got the 1st time, you may have to tweak another wheel or that hot one again.

When all are working even, they will all be close to the same heat feel by hand. If you have an ice cold one and the other 3 slightly warm, well it is doing nothing and you need to do 2 clicks tighter.

Now how many stops. A real tight one will heat in about 2 stops. And if you do a lot of city stopping, liek 10 to 15 stops then all of them get very warm. In this setup tweak stage 3 to 4 stops is enough to find a problem going from 30 or 40 to stopped.

I have tweaked in a parking lot and the camp ground after a brake drum pull. They will come even once they are set even. And once you do several stops they start to center up and wearing in round and that faint skip you had when adjusting is gone.

So a slight skip per say after putting a drum back on and having had the shoes fiddled with is not abnormal. However yes a gross out of round drum will skip. But it normally does not wear linings even.

If you have a gravel road/driveway you can do a few very short hard stops at about 5 to 10 mph and have a spotter see if all wheels are locking as once. The tight ones lock first the weak ones last. Have them look to see if both wheels stopped at once. Then go look at the other side then try to see both sides at once.

Your on the right track it just sounds like to did not adjust them tight enough. When you do you may have to turn down your controller.

Oh and if all 4 are burning hot after several stops, pending TV and TT loading/brake size you may have too much gain and the TT is stopping the entire TT and truck. On most any brake controllers other then the Ford Tow Command or other very high end controllers if you can fell the truck being held back hard by the TT as the TT brakes are stoping both and those brakes are not rated that high so they will all heat.

If you have all 4 burning hot and only did one stop, well they are all too tight and draging all the time. To feel for this, tow for a good 5 to 10 miles and gently pull over to a rest stop trying to not brake hard. Now you are only feeling bearing heat not brake heat. And all 4 should be in the OK to touch range on bearing heat on a 75 degree day. Not cold but not a 160 burn either.

I know this may be more words then you asked for but I think it should help cover you.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

John
__________________

__________________
Current Sunlines: 2004 T310SR, 2004 T1950, 2004 T2475, 2007 T2499, 2004 T317SR
Prior Sunlines: 2004 T2499 - Fern Blue
2005 Ford F350 Lariat, 6.8L V10 W/ 4.10 rear axle, CC, Short Bed, SRW. Reese HP trunnion bar hitch W/ HP DC

Google Custom Search For Sunline Owners Club
JohnB is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Furnace maintenance vcrt Repairs and Maintenance 0 11-10-2009 08:56 PM
Battery Maintenance Questions... thesteigers Repairs and Maintenance 8 11-05-2009 12:45 PM
Frame maintenance Viking Repairs and Maintenance 11 04-05-2009 02:26 PM
Roof Maintenance luckyva Sunline Community 3 07-29-2007 01:04 PM
Bearing Maintenance archiebunk Sunline Travel Trailers 1 07-20-2007 07:42 PM


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Sunline RV or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:04 AM.


×