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Old 03-30-2008, 09:17 PM   #1
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NO 12 VOLT Battery Power

OK, the blonde needs HELP !!!!

I have no 12 volt battery power, yet when connected into shore power, I have lights, water pump.

Battery is a rv/marine deep cell type installed in August when Sunny got towed for bad wheel bearing and tow truck driver pinched a wire and fried the original battery.
Wanted to post pics, but Webshots having a problem tonight.

Where do I start, and what do I look for ? I have a WFCO converter, model # WF-8955AN

Sorry, I really don't remember if the 12 volt stuff worked when hooked up to the truck, but I don't think it did.

I checked the fuse in the black box mounted on the front frame rail and it appears to look good, but the curcuit breakers(metal thing with 2 posts & with 2 wires attached ) looks a tad bit cruddy. There are some pic in Webshots, New truck, New trailer, New home, but it won't let me post them for some reason tonight.

Sorry, my description is so vague.

I will take battery to Battery Mart tomorrow to have i checked. Had charged it a home and charger indicated "FULL", then drove 551 miles and still no juice

Thanks, Kitty
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Old 03-30-2008, 09:33 PM   #2
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Old 03-30-2008, 09:50 PM   #3
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Thanks for getting the pics to post Jon. Webshots kept freezing up on me. Now, can you solve my power problem that easy ???

Also, forgot to mention, the fuse is missing in the pics of the black box, as I had it out to check it, and it is good.

Kitty
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:02 PM   #4
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I'm afraid not Kitty. Advanced electrical problems aren't my thing. I only had one small problem with Webshots...when I went to get the link for like the second or third pic, it told me Webshots was unavailable and couldn't get 'calculate' the codes. So, I refreshed it and tried again, and it worked.

On a side note, I changed the oil in the Ex tonight. I was 360 miles overdue! This was the first time I had done it on this one (My dad did it last in FL a year ago), and boy is it a pain. They put part of the exhaust right next to the filter, so between that and the driveshaft, getting the wrench to turn in that small space was almost impossible. It's not like that on the '05. And then on top of that, I failed to move the pan of oil out before I tried to put the new filter on, and what did I do, I dropped the wrench into the oil in the process of trying to get it on there. I think if there was a clean and messy way of doing it, I defaulted to the messy way! And on top of all that, I notice the front left bump-stop is broken off. Now I have to make another trip to the dealer for a part that I'm sure will be like $40 and should only be $5.

Jon
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Old 03-30-2008, 10:48 PM   #5
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Re: NO 12 VOLT Battery Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by kanyonkitty
OK, the blonde needs HELP !!!!

snip...

I have no 12 volt battery power, yet when connected into shore power, I have lights, water pump.

snip...

Where do I start, and what do I look for ? I have a WFCO converter, model # WF-8955AN

I checked the fuse in the black box mounted on the front frame rail and it appears to look good, but the curcuit breakers(metal thing with 2 posts & with 2 wires attached ) looks a tad bit cruddy. There are some pic in Webshots, New truck, New trailer, New home, but it won't let me post them for some reason tonight.

Sorry, my description is so vague.

I will take battery to Battery Mart tomorrow to have i checked. Had charged it a home and charger indicated "FULL", then drove 551 miles and still no juice

Thanks, Kitty
Kitty

OK, here tell us this and some places to go looking. I looked up your converter. First is WOW Sunline upgraded to a lot better converter. Did you custom order it or was it stock in 2006?

WFCO WF-8955AN

And here is there manual http://www.wfcoelectronics.com/docum...%20Manual).pdf Sorry this link will not fire. Do not know what is wrong with it. Go to the link above and go down to manual, then page 7


Now what can be wrong.

Tell us if we have this correct.

1.On shore power, you have 12 volts, Light water pump etc work. Yes/no?

2. On just battery you have no 12 volts, no lights etc.

If so the good news is the converter is still working. BUT the battery connection to the converter may be an issue.

Did you just put the battery in and then it not work? Or did it work on battery then die?

First I would check in the converter box what they call, reverse connection protection fuses. It is on page 7 of the manual.

Next is, is the battery actually OK and providing a level of power? If you have a volt meter, this is easy, it not well then try this. If you are still hitched to the truck, pull the 7 wire plug, then pull the safety breakaway switch. Have battery disconnect on. Slowly move the truck. The brakes should be locked up. (MAKE SURE you pull the 7 wire plug out of the truck or esle you may back feed the brake controller and now have 2 problems.)

The break away switch is wired in up stream of the on board circuit breaker. If there is enough power to lock the brakes then the battery has enough juice to turn on a light, that is if the power is getting to the converter box.

That 30 amp fuse in the little black box on the front of the TT. That is actually in the 7 wire plug circuit to the truck. See here, I have a clearer pic of it from mine




Now armed with your pics and mine we can trace this to 2 places. First assuming your battery is OK, and or you did the safety breakaway check, try this. Unplug shore power.

Make sure that 30 amp fuse is OK. Then plug in the 7 wire truck plug. Try a light on the camper. The outside one above the propane tanks will work. Does it light when plugged into the truck? If so then we know the wire from the black box on the front of the TT is going to the converter is all OK. That Orange 30 amp fuse wires ties to the down stream side of the 30 amp battery circuit breaker.

Now if you have lights running off the truck, pull the 7wire. Turn on the batter disconnect if it is not already and check lights again. If no lights and battery is good, suspect is that 30 amp auto resetting circuit breaker or heavy rust on the connections.

Odds are not high that the battery disconnect is bad, but not impossible.

Tell us if the battery is good, no reverse protection fuse blown, and can run off the truck?

You may have already nailed it with the auto setting circuit breaker. If so, see your local auto parts store. Take a pic of it and tell them you want a 30 amp, self resetting circuit breaker. Unhook battery and shore power before installing. I bought one for my power tongue jack, cost was like ~ $5 to $8.00 if I remember right. You will most likely break off the terminal post when you unscrew them off that corroded old breaker.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:33 AM   #6
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I'd have to check to be sure, but that looks like the (stock) power center in our 2007, so I would say they upgraded
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Old 03-31-2008, 08:38 PM   #7
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WARNING --- I'm BACK

OK, I sorted thru my wires, and made labels for them. I printed out a pic of the tires and attached the labels to the proper wires, and inserted that pic into a page protector for future reference. I then added labels to the actual wires for fast easy identification.

I purchased a new 30 amp curcuit breaker and installed it. (Boy, that old one was hard to remove).

Brought Interstate battery into house to put it on charger, hooked it up and when the readout said 4.2 it shut off
I had charged the battery on the 16th and it ran until it said charge ws "FULL"
SO, will be taking the battery to shop tomorrow, battery was installed 7/07, so it's basically new.

Didn't have time to connect truck to trailer to see if the 12 volt stuff worked off truck. Since battery seems to be dead, can I do this test with the truck connected and no battery on the trailer ?



This was before new breaker & labels

New breaker & some of the labels

All the wires are now labeled

The purple wire is for my back up lights, it's connected to the yellow wire that was in the 7 wire cord.

Thank you John B for the detailed pic of what wires were what. I am putting my detailed pic in the Sunline manual.

OH, my converter was standard issue, I did not know that I should have gotten an upgraded model
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1999 Ford F350XLT DRW Crew Cab, Long bed 7.3 PSD
2002 VW Jetta TDI.. AKA: Kitty's Kruiser
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:31 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanyonkitty


Didn't have time to connect truck to trailer to see if the 12 volt stuff worked off truck. Since battery seems to be dead, can I do this test with the truck connected and no battery on the trailer ?


Kitty,

YES. Turn the battery disconnect switch OFF with no battery in place so the hot lead will not touch ground and short the truck out. Then plug 7 wire into truck. TT lights should work off of truck.

BUT the Ford may have to be running to get power to the 7 wire plug. My GM did not, it was live all the time and you could drain the truck dead if you did not know this….. . But I have not yet traced down if Ford uses a relay in the 7 wire plug charging circuit that is only live when the ignition is on.

Try it truck off, then if it does not work, try truck on. Let me know how it works so it will save me a test some day to figure it out on mine..... And then you too know.

Good luck. You are a true determined camper!!! Seems no task to small. Go Kitty Go!

John
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:37 PM   #9
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Kitty

When the weather cooperates, add some silicone or other sealant on the wires going in and out of that box. That is what Sunline did on mine to keep the water out. It is not as great as a cord grip fitting but that entails redoing the entire box. Yours looks like it is missing the goo hanging out which let water in, in the first place.

And or if you have dielectric grease, add some to the breaker terminals to slow down the corrosion. My 2004 does not have any corrosion, but the box was sealed or at least goo sealed on the wire penetrations.

John
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Old 04-01-2008, 09:50 AM   #10
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Morning John,

OK, disconnected Sunny from shore power, to do more testing. Backed the truck up to the trailer, BUT did not "hitch-up". I turned the truck off, made double sure that the battery dis-connect switch was in the "OFF" position. There is NO battery on the trailer at this time. Made sure no wires were touching anything they shouldn't.

Plugged trailer into the turned off truck, got no lights. I then started the truck and thankfully I had lights. I only checked the one above the propane tank, but thought that told me I had a good 12 volt system on the trailer. SO, it appears the truck must be running to provide 12V power to the trailer, which I guess is a good thing.

So, I'm thinking for some reason I have a bad battery (which was new 7/07), and also maybe that circuit breaker was bad (which I replaced yesterday)

I have the die-electric grease and wll be applying it to the circuit breaker, and I will silicone the black box openings where the wires go thru. I think I will also find a way to seal the black box where it opens (maybe just cover it with electrical tape to help keep moisture out of it).

I can't thank you enough for all your detailed help. I sure hope I can pass-on help to someone else in need of assistance.

Now, all I have to do is get Interstate to replace my battery and do a battery test with the lights. (crossing fingrs for his test)

Kitty



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Old 04-01-2008, 08:31 PM   #11
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OK, another update.

I was just chatting in my Open Roads Singles group and got a bit more help from full time boon docker.

With his help, and my battery on the kitchen counter, I used volt meter thingy, and it read 12.75.

SO, he had about 10 minutes to spend with me, so out to Sunny I ran with battery in hand. Disconnected shore power, cautiously set battery on the rails, made sure no wires touched where they shouldn't. Connected the 2 red wires to positive, and ground to the negative.

Took a HUGE BREATH and turned on the battery disconnect switch, YEAH no sparks, fire etc.

Then, I reached up to the "light" and closed my eyes as I slid the switch to the on position.

Hal a Lu Ya, I had a light.

turned everything off, and re-connected to shore power.

So, what do you think, what should I do next, or might I be "fixed" ?

Kitty

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Old 04-01-2008, 10:53 PM   #12
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Kitty

WOW great!

And now we both know our Fords need the ignition on to power up the battery charging pin in the 7 wire. At least on the Super Duties. Thanks. This is a good thing so we will not drain the battery to death if you leave the 7 wire pluged in over long periods.

I think you have got it. The truck test showed that the heavy red wire from the black junction box to the power converter bus bar inside is intact and working as the propane tank light worked. So no reverse polity fuse blown in the converter and that wiring is sound.

And now that you did the battery test, well the new circuit breaker is working too. So the wiring from battery, thru breaker is sound.

The only thing that might be an unknown is the life state of your battery. The 12.75 volts off that “voltmeter” thingy… with the battery unhooked says it is full, but it might be a surface type voltage. If you let the battery sit for 6 plus hours, (at around 70 deg F) not on a charger or using any power from it, then go measure. It may drop or still be there. If it is still up there in the 12.7 range, then you are in the OK range short of putting it under a load test.

If you want to be sure since you have questions on it, take the battery to a battery place they can put a tester on it and draw high current and check the life. If Advance Auto is in your area, they use to do this test for free. Just show up at the counter and ask. Your bus garage mechanic I’m sure has one too.

Since your are now “into” the 12 volt side of life… see these 2 articles targeted to the RV. They are well written and help explain a lot about batteries and battery maintenance which most do not know about. I have not found anything really wrong with that info.

The 12 volt side of life part 1

The 12 volt side of life part 2

Now if you want to read more…. they did not talk about battery sulfation which your battery could be suffering from.

FAQ’s Battery Sulfation

And here is some more I bumped into. http://www.batteryfaq.org/

Which a good section of reading on Deep Cycle FAQ’s

This past year I bought 2 of these to maintain my batteries that has a desulfation mode to it and a float charger. Battery Minder Plus. Camping World has them.

Oh and you where holding out on us. We did not know you had one of those “voltmeter” thingy’s. If I had know that we could of done a different form of trouble shooting. Some day take a pic of the front of it. It might have an “ohms” thingy setting which is also very usefully when tracking down circuit breakers that do not work or other non working camper 12 volt items. You can test continuity (is the circuit making contact) across your old circuit breaker to tell if it was part of the problem. That is if it did not get destroyed trying to get the wires off.

As far as the help. Well glad it helped and glad to help anytime. Us Sunliner’s stick together… and I’m sure some day, you or someone else will help me out. All just for asking.

Glad you found the issue and have Sunny back in operation.

John
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