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Old 01-18-2015, 01:19 PM   #41
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The top one I posted, would be mounted in a hole in the tank. the tank opening would fit in the groove you see. The vent pipe would fit inside the grommet. The other one... I am not exactly sure how they mount.
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Old 01-18-2015, 01:34 PM   #42
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The top one I posted, would be mounted in a hole in the tank. the tank opening would fit in the groove you see. The vent pipe would fit inside the grommet. The other one... I am not exactly sure how they mount.
so they are connectors. thank you
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Old 01-18-2015, 03:30 PM   #43
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Quote:
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so they are connectors. thank you
You are quite welcome..

They are what connect the vent pipe to the tank itself..
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Old 01-18-2015, 07:20 PM   #44
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Noralee,

Sorry so long getting to this. Life is busy here lately. I'll try to explain some more to your questions in blue.

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John,
what a helpful post. i want to clarify a few things. you are saying that the grommets are what is used when connecting the tank to the pipes. and that these pieces may be what has gone bad, allowing gases to flow into the camper rather than being carried out, or up or held in.

"If" your tank uses the rubber grommet style fitting on the roof vent line OR the sinks/shower drain line to create the pipe seal to the tank, then yes, they may be old and cracked and letting stink get out. BUT, that is if your camper is built with the rubber grommet kind.

I do not know, and unless another member has had their tank down with a similar year of your camper, you will not know unless you can actually see the fitting going into the tank. If there is a way to see that fitting, and you can see it, it might help confrim if it is the rubber grommet kind OR the welded (glued) in kind.

When I say welded, this is plastic solvent welding. Sorry for not explaining better. Meaning special chemical liquid which softens and melts the plastic together creating a permanent bond. This is beyond glue, but in a simple sense, you use it like glue.

Odds may be, due to the way the camper is made you may not be able to see the fitting which is in the top of the tank itself short of dropping the tank.

you suggest dropping the tank so that i can see these grommets and determine if they have gone bad. that is the purpose of cutting the pipes and removing the grey tank.

The suggestion of dropping the tank comes from,

1. We know you have a tank leak. While I can not see the location of the tank leak, I'm making an assumption (may be a bad one, need pics of the tank leak area) that by taking the tank down., once the tank is out from under the camper, a proper repair of the tank can be made. The tank leaking needs to get fixed.

2. You are running out of options to see and find this problem. We cannot guarantee the tank is the problem or the pipe connections going into it. If there is a connection problem, a cracked pipe etc entering the tank, then that has a high degree of being the problem. This is an search and look exploratory endeavor. Best case, you find the root cause of the stink and take care of it. If it turns up not to be the stink area, you still have to fix the tank leak. And you at least know it is not the tank connections.

what pics would be helpful for you? i can see much of the pipes either under the kitchen counter or around the bathroom in closets and such. i even cut a hole in the wall under the stove so that i could see under the toilet area. there are no leaks. but i don't think that's what you're looking for. the other area i saw was under the shower pan most recently, as i described in one of the first posts i wrote in this thread. that was the joint from the grey piping into the grey tank.

Pics which would help all of us see what you are up agasint are:

Outside the camper where the gray tank dump valve ties into the main dump pipe.

Outside the camper where the grey tank leaks. A clear shot of the side of the tank if you can see it would help.

Outside the camper what kind of hook up exists by the grey and black tanks.

Inside the camper, If you have any kind of pics showing the pipes going into the top area of the tank. You mentioned the shower pan going into the grey tank, that area in focus would be helpful if you have any.

Inside the camper if you can find the roof vent stack pipe coming down and heading into the grey tank area.


if you're wondering if going through the top/floor to reach the tank will be easier/harder, i would say that your guess is correct, that going through the top we will run into joists and then the metal sheet that covers under the camper. the tank from what i understand was installed after/over the metal piece. this is why you suggested going in from the bottom. that is definitely out of my league of ability, but my helper should be able to do it, hopefully not taking too long.

As I suspected the tank is outside as shown in your pics and the camper floor structure is between the inside floor and the top of the tank. That may be 2 to 2.5 inches of floor structure that is not practical to take up just to see the 2 tank fittings we are after.

Yes I agree, this may be beyond your ability, trying to explain it so you can hand off to your helper person.

the delay will probably be getting the materials to fix whatever the leak is and whatever needs to be replaced once the pipes come off. what can i anticipate and purchase ahead of time if i follow the instructions you, john, suggested for cutting pipes and replacing grommets? do the entire pipes have to replaced or just a portion that has been cut? i'm not much of a plumber.

The pics will hopefully show us something we can draw on or explain how to do this "cutting". Before you cut, you need to have a plan for the repair.

If the tank pipes enter and sealed to the tank with a grommet style connection, that sends you in that direction or how t fit. If the pipes entered with a solvent weld fitting, you have no choice but the cut the pipe in a place where a repair can be made once the tank is put back in.

I'm going to "assume" the tank has welded in fittings. There are at least 3 areas that need to be unhooked/disconnected.

1. The dump valve. Many can be unbolted at the slider valve and that will unhook that pipe.

2. The roof vent pipe. While this pipe "might" be welded to the top of the tank it "might" not be fastened up on the roof. Meaning it "might" slip up into the roof vent. So when the tank comes down, the vent pipe withdraws and partly comes down with the tank. That would be the "wish". If it is attached to the roof vent, that need to be unhooked up on the roof to let the pipe come down with the tank as if not, the pipe will hold the tank up against the camper floor.

OR you "might" have to cut the vent pipe "inside" the camper to allow it to drop down. But it needs to be cut in an area you can repair it. Again the hope pics will show the vent pipe heading to the tank.

3. The shower and sinks drain pipe into the tank. I'm "assuming again" there is only one pipe to enter the tank itself on the drains. It would make sense Sunline Tee'ed all connections and then entered the tank once. But one never knows. Some investigation would be needed to know this. Odds are favorable this pipe is solvent welded to the tank. This means it more than likely has to be cut to allow the tank to drop down. If so, this cut has to be in the open where a repair can be made and ideally so the pipe cut off can drop straight down through the floor.

When the tank is dropped down laying on the ground, there would/could be 2 short pipes sticking up out of the top of it. The vent pipe and the drain line.

Now to the fix of how to re-attach the cut off pipes. There are a few ways. Here are 2.

1. You buy a flexible rubber coupling. Lowes/Home Depot/ lumber yards sell them

Shop AMERICAN VALVE 1-1/2-in Dia Flexible PVC Connector Trap Fittings at Lowes.com

They look like this. These are easy to use and can be undone again easily.


2. You buy solvent weld pipe coupling. Like this
Shop NIBCO 1-1/2-in dia ABS Coupling Fitting at Lowes.com



This needs ABS cement and you solvent weld the pipes back together. While cheaper, unless you know this is not coming off again, it is permanent.

you say that the grey tank is not a huge job, but should i choose to take my time with it a temporary fix is to add a T and run a new pipe directly into the sewage line. when you say "weld" the tank back in place, do you mean weld as in metal? and if so, which pieces? i thought the tank was all plastic. i'll take another look at those metal fasteners you showed a pic of to see if i have screws also. are these the pieces that need to be welded?
"IF" you get to dropping the tank down and get it out of the bottom of the camper, in your case since you do not tow the camper, you and run temporary pipes and connect direct to the sewer line without the tank in the middle.

Use the rubber pipe couplings. Attach a pipe to the drain line and extend it down under the camper.

Use the rubber pipe coupling on the vent line. Attach a pipe to the vent line down under the camper.

Tee the vent line into the drain line under the camper. Have the vent enter the Tee from top area so it acts like a "wet" vent line. Meaning it allows air into the top of the drain pipe to allow water to flow out the drain pipe to the sewer.

Then from the tee you either buy a slider valve to use one half of it to tie into the sewer line or another method to tap into the sewer line. Maybe a clean out cap exists in the main sewer line.

Now you have no tank. No tank leaks and no tank smell. Hopefully in all this you found the stink problem. If you did not, you eliminated the largest suspect and have some other path to the stink.

If you want to sell the camper or travel with tanks, then fix the grey tank and put it back up in the camper. The rubber couplings allow you to unhook and hook the tank back up.

On the piping fitting size, I linked 1 1/2" which is a common sink drain line size. However this needs to be checked for the correct size before someone goes to the store. While 1 1/4" exists, it is generally only in sink traps. And I doubt they used 2" but maybe.

Again, this is all suggested from what we "think" you have. Pics if you can get them can help clarify.

Hope this explains this some.

John
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Old 01-19-2015, 04:07 PM   #45
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Noralee,

Sorry so long getting to this. Life is busy here lately. I'll try to explain some more to your questions in blue.

Again, this is all suggested from what we "think" you have. Pics if you can get them can help clarify.

Hope this explains this some.

John
John, thank you. I agree that this seems like the best course of action. At least I will be able to get a good look around the grey tank area, underneath it to see if there is any damaged wood or anything else that might contribute to the smell. Or perhaps it will just be the tank leak. Or...Thanks for all your directions. They really help.

Bunjin verified that in their '83 there has an ABS flange fitting. I'll take a look around to see if i can get any helpful pics.
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Old 01-20-2015, 05:19 PM   #46
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it looks like i can get all the parts at lowe's except any patch kit for the tank. that makes things a lot easier.
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:22 PM   #47
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Good luck and let us know how it goes. Really curious on what the cause of the is. See if our thought process is correct or not. Never stop learning.
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Old 04-25-2015, 03:33 PM   #48
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after several flaky "helpers," i have decided to do this on my own. i don't have much experience with piping, but on the bright side i am small enough so that i don't think i will need to jack up the camper.

there is one area i'm worried about, at the convergence of the tank and main septic drain, but i will post pics of this soon.

if anyone has any (more) words of advice, i'd be grateful. i'm also weary of cutting the pipes, though i will be cutting for convenience now rather than planning for reinstalling the tank later. i just need the pipes cut to attach new pvc to. i will have to hope for the best.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:08 PM   #49
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hello! thanks to everyone's help answering my many questions on the forum, i have finally completed this project and boy was it tough. i had help with the screws that were stuck and pulling out the grey tank. it was tough on both of us but we powered through a long day. the reason it took so long is because we didn't end up jacking it up (my camper is semi-permanently hooked up) and we thought it would be better to leave it in place. in hindsight this may not be true, but...a couple of the screws were really stuck and we also had a heck of a time cutting the waste drain pipe coming from the camper directly into the tank and since we didn't have easy access things were complicated and time consuming. i made a makeshift hand saw with duct tape handle to stick between the tank and the camper floor and blindly cut; one of us on one side of the camper underneath cutting and the other on the other side underneath directing the cutting.

interestingly, the roof vent does not go straight into the tank, but rather links into the drain piping that meets at the shower pan, where the main waste drains (and then goes into the tank). so the tank had only the one pipe coming directly into it from the top.

the tank is actually in pretty good shape. good news: there is no crack. but the grommet had gone bad and water was leaking from the crack at the grommet when the tank was full. the water that had leaked and "stored" on top of the tank was also causing odor. but for the most part it seems like the stink is coming from the tank itself around the grommet and the 'stored' water i mentioned. i still don't know for sure that the problem has been solved but i am still investigating and seeing how things shape up as i clean and things dry up.

the theory that we had come up with was that a crack was enabling air and moisture into the tank and creating the odor. the real test will be to see if the smell coming inside the camper now goes away for good. we have put pvc piping directly from the main drain to the waste valve. the roof vent is still intact. the grey tank can be easily repaired and will need a patch where the old grommet was-there is now a big hole since the grommet and the tank surface it was attached to both cracked off-and a new grommet.

so relieved to have this project behind me and hopefully this problem permanently solved...i'll know more in the coming weeks and will keep you all posted as to how it goes. hope your summer has been a good one.

noralee
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:10 PM   #50
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also, we checked around the hole under the camper where the drain pipe is and there was no moisture there so that is also good news. no damage to the floor/internal leaks.
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Old 09-17-2015, 07:20 PM   #51
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Glad to hear you may be on the road to sweet smelling roses!!!!
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Old 12-03-2015, 08:32 PM   #52
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i'm sad to report that removing the grey tank has not solved the odor problem (( now that i'm using the indoor shower regularly and the windows are mostly closed, it has returned. it appears to be linked to the shower, but i can't say 100% since it's possible that having all the windows open in the summertime allows all the odor out and so i never smell anything. (but i do use an outdoor shower in the warm months.) it also seems to be relegated to the area by the main drain/under the shower, so that the smell doesn't come up from other areas of the camper where i can see the linoleum not against the wall 100%. areas where you would think the smell would be able to seep from like it appears to do around the main drain/shower area.

in addition to removing the grey tank (for now there is a pvc connector), i also did a heavy happy camper treatment into all the piping until it backed up into the shower. the odor did not reduce.

what is the next move to try? any suggestions? all i can think is that it's something in the floor, but it's definitely not under the shower. that area was in good condition. and if it were a dead animal or something the summertime would be when it would be stronger, from the humidity, even with the windows open. i can't think of anything else and am starting to panic a little bit. i don't want to have to deal with this again until springtime when i can open the windows back up. please help!
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Old 12-04-2015, 06:31 PM   #53
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Have you looked at the possibility it may be the shower drain pipe itself? I remember having a bad odor from one year's ago because there isn't a decent pitch for it. Just try dumping a half cup of baking soda in it followed by a cup of white vinegar so it will fizz up good. Also you may have a hair and grease buildup in it-take the drain cover off and run a snake thru it followed by some good hot soapy water...that could cause an awful smell!!
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Old 12-04-2015, 08:52 PM   #54
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janalee, thanks. i could look into this, but i did treat the pipe already with happy camper until it backed up. wouldn't anything nasty get cleaned up from that treatment? i have cleaned it out in terms of build up but i can always check again.
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Old 12-05-2015, 05:07 PM   #55
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Have you tried a mold test kit?
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Old 12-06-2015, 02:40 PM   #56
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Have you tried a mold test kit?
i haven't. does that test for a particular location? or is it a general test for the camper as a whole?
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Old 12-06-2015, 03:35 PM   #57
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General test, it maybe a start.
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Old 12-06-2015, 08:27 PM   #58
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Nora,

As Janalee said, at this point, consider snaking the shower drain pipe. We use Happy Camper too (the regular, not the extreme) but, as I understand it, for HC to work effectively, it has to sit for awhile so that the enzymes can start to decompose any "stuff" and, while HC keeps our black tank odor-free, I'm not sure how effective it would be on a tough clog. You have done so much up to this point, why not give it a try of the "What do I have to lose?" premise. Hope you find the source soon!
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Old 12-10-2015, 09:54 PM   #59
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thanks for the ideas! i've been away from home the last few days and headed out of till late next week. when i return i'm going to tackle this again with your suggestions and see if i can't find the source.
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Old 12-22-2015, 03:16 PM   #60
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is there a trick to snaking? i tried the two tools in the pic, a regular snake and the plastic yellow "stick" (it has teeth on both sides) and couldn't get either down very far. the yellow one, about 2 feet went all the way down both the shower and bathroom sink drain. is that far enough to rule out a clog as a source? i couldn't get the regular drain down very far at all and if anyone has a tip to help get it down farther, i'd love to hear it. nothing came up from either drain.

btw, there is no slow draining or any other symptoms i've noticed. there is a slight odor, not similar to the main one, in the bathroom sink if it hasn't been used in a while.



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Nora,

As Janalee said, at this point, consider snaking the shower drain pipe. We use Happy Camper too (the regular, not the extreme) but, as I understand it, for HC to work effectively, it has to sit for awhile so that the enzymes can start to decompose any "stuff" and, while HC keeps our black tank odor-free, I'm not sure how effective it would be on a tough clog. You have done so much up to this point, why not give it a try of the "What do I have to lose?" premise. Hope you find the source soon!
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