Major smell problem

[noralee]

John,
I meant that the black tank never drains (leaks) from underneath the camper. It is only the grey tank that leaks. My insufficient terminology.

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi Noralee

Sorry, I mixed up one of my questions. The question was on your response highlighted in red. I was asking to confirm, "What" never drains from underneath the camper? Is it wet all the time?

John

It is going to be a real challenge to get under the camper with enough space. I am semi permanently hooked into the water intake as well as the septic. It will be a real drag to dismantle the setup. And then, even how to get enough space for me and my helper to fit underneath with 'work' room. All I have to use are jacks. I guess they've worked so far, but this project needs a little more breathing room. The jacks will have to do for now.

bunjin and all, you're very kind to take the time to help me problem solve.

I will check out underneath and post some pics as soon as the weather warms up. my thoughts in all honesty are headed towards whether I need to work real hard for a while to get a different camper. There's just one major problem after the next and I need a comfortable place to come home to. I can't get a break with this one even though I've already invested so much time and energy even if we find this leak as the source of the smell, there is no telling how much wood has absorbed this smell and getting it out is another conversation altogether.

[mainah]

My thought with the vent pipe it maybe disconnected this would explain two things the smell and the leak. If the vent is the problem you may be able to deal with that from inside I don't know where yours goes mine is inside of the closet. So if you put water down the vent pipe and it runs out on the ground there is a problem with the vent not the tank it's self if that is the case the smell has no place to go but up under the floor boards instead of out over the roof. All of this is clutching at straws until you get some thing positive. There is a house there is it livable? Or can it be made so? It must have water or there would be no need for a septic. Living in a small camper in the woods is not an easy task they never were intended for that.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by noralee

It is going to be a real challenge to get under the camper with enough space. I am semi permanently hooked into the water intake as well as the septic. It will be a real drag to dismantle the setup. And then, even how to get enough space for me and my helper to fit underneath with 'work' room. All I have to use are jacks. I guess they've worked so far, but this project needs a little more breathing room. The jacks will have to do for now.

Room to work under the camper, yes that will be an issue as I had thought and your reply confirms. The hope was if you can fish the inspection camera in from one side with the cover just loosened enough to get it in, you "might" be able to see what your up against. Once you know, then that will hopfulley set the "how" and "when" to to this when that time comes.

My prior T2499 was an under-slung axle camper. Higher up then yours, but a lot lower then the T310SR we have now. While I could still just slide under the frame even while on concrete... there was not a lot of room to do much. I use to drive the camper up on wood blocks under the wheels to elevate the whole thing, or raise the entire camper up on jack stands, again on a solid concrete surface and with 4 jack stands that had enough capacity to hold 3 times the weight of the entire camper and mostly larger jack stands for stability. For sure caution when going under the camper when up on any kind of jacks or stands. Better out in the dirt may be large cribbing timbers, like 6 x 6's or old rail road ties as the foot print is larger and more stable under the frame if you jack the camper up.

Hopefully the inspection will show something as the the source of the issue.

John

[noralee]

sorry if I'm repeating here, but are you suggesting that this much smell could occur from just moisture/dampness traveling to the surrounding area of the tank leak and growing bacteria? either around the top of the tank where the leak is or up into the camper more underneath the metal skin? if it were only coming from bacteria growing inside the tank that should have been flushed away from the happy camper. it just seems like a lot of smell for the small area around the tank/leak to generate that much smell and I want to be clear about this theory so I know what/where to look for when we explore.

Originally Posted by JohnB

Since you have been trying to the HC treatment and the grey tank valve closed and this has not shifted the smell, the thoughts shift to the grey tank leak. Like Gary stated, if the tank leak lets out contaminated water and if it stays moist, it will grow bacteria over time which can really stink.

If the leak is on the top of the tank or very close to the top, wet may be trapped on top of the tank and the bottom side of the camper and it will not dry out very well if ever unless a good qty of circulating air gets inside. If it dries out, totally, the bacteria will die and the smell lessen. Ideally it can be cleaned up, however drying it out may be a temporary measure to lessen the stink

Now how the stink gets in the camper, it seems bad stink finds a way... any little hole,slit, crack or worse if the wood is wet, permeate threw it. There are certain naturally created smells which can be really bad and penetrate. Rotten onions, rotten potatoes, cat urine, heavily rotted wood, thriving bacteria of certain species etc. While 4 to 5 feet away in an a open room it does not smell that bad or hardly at all, get up close about a foot away and it can knock you over... Like mainah said, small camper, tight space and not a lot of air movement, once the smell is in, it accumulates.

John

[EMD_Driver]

Originally Posted by noralee

if it were only coming from bacteria growing inside the tank that should have been flushed away from the happy camper.

Just to be sure you are clear, the nasty and smelly stuff grows very well on the top of the inside of the tank. For the HC treatment to be effective, the tank has to be completely full. If the crack is anywhere below the highest point in the tank, the HC will be unable to clean it.

Think of it like this... If the tank is 10" from top to bottom and the crack is 9.5" from the bottom, the crack will make the water level no higher than 9.5". That .5" of air gap, will leave .5" of nasty and smelly stuff clinging to the top of the tank. The odor will still escape from the tank, through the crack and make it's way into the camper. The nasty and smelly stuff has to be completely submerged in the HC treated water.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by noralee

are you suggesting that this much smell could occur from just moisture/dampness traveling to the surrounding area of the tank leak and growing bacteria? either around the top of the tank where the leak is or up into the camper more underneath the metal skin?

I want to be clear about this theory so I know what/where to look for when we explore.

Hi Noralee,

Yes, the grey water leaking "out" of the tank can be contaminated. It has scum in the water from the top area of the tank or a buildup of scum outside the tank already exists and new water keeps feeding it. The water leaks out and then festers possibly stuck between the bottom of the camper and the top or top side of the tank.

Gary explained how the top of the tank can still be all scummed up even after the happy camper treatment. And even if the top of the tank is clean, if the infection already existed outside the tank, it has to dry up to stop growing or get sanitized.

The smell is being generated some how in the confines of camper. The scum growing theory is an educated guess. I work for a food company and wet bacteria can really stink to the point you will almost gag at the smell. This may not be what you have, but may be a form of it. Nature finds a way to survive...

Hope this helps

John

[JohnB]

Noralee,

If you can get the inspection camera into up above the cover, I would look for signs of where the water drips from the grey tank, the wet side and top of the grey tank and the area you said where flow runs over the black tank. Basically any wet area.

What you are looking for is, a wet gooey looking substance or moldy looking area so to speak. For the type of bacteria I think you are after, they needs 3 things to grow, flourish and survive. They are really just like what we need to survive.

1. Water
2. A food/nutrient source
3. Oxygen

If you take away any one of the 3, they will die. The oxygen is not practical to get rid of. The food, pending what kind of bacteria it is, it may not need very much in the way of nutrients to live and what ever is in the grey tank gives them all they need. That leaves the water. If the area dries out, they will die from lack of water. I know, right now that is the hardest thing to do with the tank crack.

When the cover is moved down a little, a sniff of the air above the cover may help confrim you are in the right hunting spot.

Hope this helps

John

[noralee]

Here are some pics of the underside of the camper; the grey tank and the metal underbelly. I did not see any screws except from the metal to the frame. I only saw the large staples pictured on the perimeter of the metal underbelly. That seems to be what is holding the metal 'on' the camper. I couldn't get a good shot of the tank on the side closest to the drain valve where we suspect the leak is, but when I looked at it, it looks normal, ie no visible growth or damage.

That being said, I don't see how to remove any of the metal. I also don't see how to get a good look at the tank top side. (Perhaps the camera has such a small lens that it will fit through the small space available and be helpful enough for me to see what I need to. The tank seems to be welded on (or perhaps there are screws where the metal fasteners are that I can't see until I get closer up).

I hope this will help to get a game plan for exploration. Any suggestions are appreciated.

The last picture is a wide shot of the metal underbelly and you can see that there are no screws or anything aside from the staples on the perimeter (the dangling stuff is just dried grass). The black "line" looking thing is just shadow.

[noralee]

Originally Posted by JohnB

When the cover is moved down a little, a sniff of the air above the cover may help confrim you are in the right hunting spot.


John

John, I don't think my camper has a cover to easily move around

[bunjin]

noralee,

I took a quick....very quick look as it has been snowing and also the temperatures have been rather on the cool side (5-15* F) here in balmy Connecticut lately.

Your pictures are helpful. Your set up is similar to but also a little different from mine. I will try and get some pictures of the top of the tank(s). I need to remove some panels and use mirrors to do this. It will be a bit different from yours, however I think close enough to "help" you.

[JohnB]

Noralee,

Pictures are for sure worth a million words. I have never seen the bottom of one of the older campers. The metal bottom cover you have is totally different then I was excepting. I was expecting the tanks to be up inside the metal cover area. Meaning the tanks are above the metal.

As can be seen now, the tank is outside the metal. This changes the entire approach to this. Sunline used the metal cover like they do on the newer campers with the black Darco plastic membrane. I can see the siding wraps under and over the top of the bottom metal cover to create a better water seal. Getting under that cover is going to be very difficult I "think" now seeing this. And once under it, the camera probe may not go very far as you may hit the floor joints and can;t get past that barrier.

Some time if you can, a few pics of the area that is leaking would be helpful to see what you are up against.

I'm now wondering the Sunline used rubber grommet type seals to have the vent stale piping to the tank and then the drains how they tie into the tank. Those rubber seals may have cracked and allow tank gases to float up into the camper through a cracked vent stack rubber sealing grommet. And if this is correct, they are on top of the tank. I do not know if the sink drains tie in through a solvent weld fittings or use a rubber gasket too.

At this point I would put dropping the cover on hold to get in for a look. The area you need to get to is above the tank. You may need to drop the tank

I'm not thinking on how to to an inspection that will give some meaning full data.

John

[noralee]

John, I'm glad to show you something new and that we are getting on the same page now. I was stiill confused about our last plan.

The second pic down; that left corner and the front side next to it that is not pictured are the areas where I see the water leaking once the tank is full. Due to the way the unlevel ground is and the position of the camper it would be very difficult to get a front end pic of that corner. I can take another look when it warms up (it's about 10 degrees outside) but i don't know that i can position myself well enough with the camera to get a good shot. i can tell you though that i don't see anything unusual when i get a good view of it. the sides and edges look like the rest of the tank. but i will try to look again and post pics if it's possible. also remember though that only 1 or 2x in the last week was the tank full enough to overflow and leave any kind of marking on the tank edge or "roof" of the bottom covering. the rest of the time the valve to the septic is open. so i was just trying to say that there is no visible growth or funk under there that would look like an obvious cause.

i will put some more thought into your post. the only way to get to the top of the tank from inside would be going through the floor. dropping the tank: if that looks like the best option do you have any suggestions of how to get through those metal fasteners? if you can zoom into the pics at all, there is no screw or anything. it's just the piece of metal looks welded. but they wouldn't weld onto plastic...so maybe it's not what it looks like.

i don't understand exactly where the grommet seals are located you referred to. could you clarify for me?

i hope i've been clear in my response. i started a new job this week (terrible timing with the camper fiasco) and have been quite frazzled with everything.

thanks, John. i appreciate your time.

Originally Posted by JohnB

Noralee,

Pictures are for sure worth a million words. I have never seen the bottom of one of the older campers. The metal bottom cover you have is totally different then I was excepting. I was expecting the tanks to be up inside the metal cover area. Meaning the tanks are above the metal.

As can be seen now, the tank is outside the metal. This changes the entire approach to this. Sunline used the metal cover like they do on the newer campers with the black Darco plastic membrane. I can see the siding wraps under and over the top of the bottom metal cover to create a better water seal. Getting under that cover is going to be very difficult I "think" now seeing this. And once under it, the camera probe may not go very far as you may hit the floor joints and can;t get past that barrier.

Some time if you can, a few pics of the area that is leaking would be helpful to see what you are up against.

I'm now wondering the Sunline used rubber grommet type seals to have the vent stale piping to the tank and then the drains how they tie into the tank. Those rubber seals may have cracked and allow tank gases to float up into the camper through a cracked vent stack rubber sealing grommet. And if this is correct, they are on top of the tank. I do not know if the sink drains tie in through a solvent weld fittings or use a rubber gasket too.

At this point I would put dropping the cover on hold to get in for a look. The area you need to get to is above the tank. You may need to drop the tank

I'm not thinking on how to to an inspection that will give some meaning full data.

John

[noralee]

Originally Posted by bunjin

noralee,

I took a quick....very quick look as it has been snowing and also the temperatures have been rather on the cool side (5-15* F) here in balmy Connecticut lately.

Your pictures are helpful. Your set up is similar to but also a little different from mine. I will try and get some pictures of the top of the tank(s). I need to remove some panels and use mirrors to do this. It will be a bit different from yours, however I think close enough to "help" you.

thanks for checking. we got a cold front here too. yesterday about zero and today a warm up to about 10. if you read john's latest post you may find that you don't need to go to any trouble. i'm still understanding it so i'm not completely sure what will be helpful yet.

[bunjin]

Sunline 1983 T-1550 Venting Photos by bunjin-gi | Photobucket

To late! I have some picture at the link giving, I hope a little insight as to what may be useful for you to look at.

This area under the sink may have been modified by other previous owners. My T-1550 has had mods done to it.

Your under belly pictures are similar to mine, in as much as to the sheet metal to tank(s) are concerned, although you have plumbing on your back wall and I have plumbing on both side walls.

Vents are not easy to see. The optical scope would have been handy for me to have taken a look down the drain pipe (see the picture of white water tank, elbow at drawer area) to see if I could find the pipe connection onto the tank.

The vent pipe behind the toilet area is what I think is typical of vent connections to grey tank as well as the black tank. This connection is a ABS solid hard plastic connection which I believe is solvent welded in place. I will try to verify later.

I didn't see any evidence of leaking in your pictures. If you had any it is not in view or leaving traces.

The point of my pictures is for you to see if you can remove drawers, open cabinet doors, etc. and look at your drain pipe...as well as hot and cold feed lines to see if you have any seepage.

The optical scope may be of use in this kind of exploration. It doesn't require removing the sheetmetal under belly.

Good luck.

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by noralee

i will put some more thought into your post. the only way to get to the top of the tank from inside would be going through the floor. dropping the tank: if that looks like the best option do you have any suggestions of how to get through those metal fasteners? if you can zoom into the pics at all, there is no screw or anything. it's just the piece of metal looks welded. but they wouldn't weld onto plastic...so maybe it's not what it looks like.

i don't understand exactly where the grommet seals are located you referred to. could you clarify for me?

Hi Noralee

This pic, those rusted looking tank mounting tabs "look" like the same kind used on the newer campers. I say look as all I can see is a rusted metal plate that "looks" like what mine are just more rusted over time.


See these pics of mine which are more clear. There is metal plate with 1 or 2 holes drilled in it then screws that go up into the floor joists of the camper to hold the tank up. Yours may actually have these screws, they may just be a totally rusted in place. These pics are from my prior T2499 and I painted the plates to slow down the rust issue





If you or you helper can get under there, you can see if there is any traces of screw heads. They may be so rusted that no screw driver bit will hold in them. If you end up taking the tank down, then you would just drill the screws out. Meaning use a drill bit slightly larger then the shank of the screw (not the head, the shank of the screw) and drill right though the head. This is most likely about a 5/32" bit. When you break through the head, then stop as the head will fall off.

The grommet. I'm making some assumptions on this one not knowing what your tank looks like. There are sort of 2 types of tank fittings. Solvent weld and rubber grommet.

The rubber grommet looks like this
Ameri-Kart 1-1/2" Rubber Inlet Grommet - Holding Tank Fittings - Black Water Tanks - Plumbing

The solvent weld "can" look like this
Ameri-Kart 1-1/2" Flush Vent Holding Tank Fitting - Holding Tank Fittings - Black Water Tanks - Plumbing

or this
Ameri-Kart 1-1/2" Regular Vent Holding Tank Fitting - Holding Tank Fittings - Black Water Tanks - Plumbing

In your gray tank there should be 3 ports in the tank.

The dump pipe port you can see outside. That has a slider valve on it somewhere where you can unbolt the valve apart to break the connection to later put it back on.

The roof vent pipe port. This comes in the top of the tank, more than likely straight down from the roof. This might be the rubber grommet kind or the solvent weld kind. I do not know what Sunline used, my instinct tells me most likley a solvent weld at the factory.

The grey feed water pipe. This comes from the sinks into the tank and most likley on the upper side or in the top.

Dropping the tank "might" be easier from the outside, if tearing into the floor from the inside creates a mega job to repair.

The issue with dropping the tank is odds are high they are solvent weld fittings and you will need to cut the pipe to get the tank out. The grey feed water pipe you may have to cut inside the camper to disconnect before the tank drop.

The roof vent pipe port, you might get more lucky, when the tank comes down a foot etc, the vent pipe might come down with it. Then you cut the pipe when the tank is down but not removed from the camper yet.

If you are cutting the pipes, cut only where it is good to splice back together.

When you go to install back, you solvent weld a coupling or union back in place if you can actually get to the union or one of these rubber unions if you can get to the screws
Ameri-Kart 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" Rubber Quick Connect with Clamps - Holding Tank Fittings - Black Water Tanks - Plumbing

The benefit of dropping the tank is, once it is out the tank itself can be fixed for the leak. And you have full access to anything gooey etc that has "possibly" oozed out on top causing the stink. Dropping the tank is not a mega job, but it is a job that may be more then you may be able to do. Your helper friend may need to do this. It would not surprise me it is from 2 to 6 hours and then the tank welding to fix the leak. One needs to be cautious on the way in as not knowing all what is going to run into.

If someone had done this before, it may only take 30 to 45 minutes and the tank it out.

Again I cannot see what your camper looks like, pics will help, to know if going in the top inside will be a benefit or a real battle. Since we know for sure the tank is under the camper, the floor joists are between the inside floor and the top of the tank. Odds are high inside the camper, while the floor may come up after figure out how to cut into it and not cut the tank, odds are high you will run right into the metal cover under the camper covering over the top of the tank and you still cannot see the top of the tank from the inside.

My first thought is dropping the tank is what I would do. It is not going to be easy to deal with the pipes, but I could get to the possible heart of the issue and fix the tank leak out in the open with a good permanent tank weld.

There is also a temporary hook up you can do when the tank is out. Since your camper is not moving anywhere fast, just connect the pipes direct to the sewer line. Tee in the vent to this line and leave the tank out. Use the rubber unions with the hose clamps so some day if you want to put the tank back in, you can more easily.

After I see pics of the inside, I might change my mind, but there is still high odds the metal camper bottom cover I'm going to run into trying to go from the top down and still cannot get to the tank top.

Maybe this reply will help guide you on what and how to do this.

John

[noralee]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Hi Noralee

This pic, those rusted looking tank mounting tabs "look" like the same kind used on the newer campers. I say look as all I can see is a rusted metal plate that "looks" like what mine are just more rusted over time.


See these pics of mine which are more clear. There is metal plate with 1 or 2 holes drilled in it then screws that go up into the floor joists of the camper to hold the tank up. Yours may actually have these screws, they may just be a totally rusted in place. These pics are from my prior T2499 and I painted the plates to slow down the rust issue





If you or you helper can get under there, you can see if there is any traces of screw heads. They may be so rusted that no screw driver bit will hold in them. If you end up taking the tank down, then you would just drill the screws out. Meaning use a drill bit slightly larger then the shank of the screw (not the head, the shank of the screw) and drill right though the head. This is most likely about a 5/32" bit. When you break through the head, then stop as the head will fall off.

The grommet. I'm making some assumptions on this one not knowing what your tank looks like. There are sort of 2 types of tank fittings. Solvent weld and rubber grommet.

The rubber grommet looks like this
Ameri-Kart 1-1/2" Rubber Inlet Grommet - Holding Tank Fittings - Black Water Tanks - Plumbing

The solvent weld "can" look like this
Ameri-Kart 1-1/2" Flush Vent Holding Tank Fitting - Holding Tank Fittings - Black Water Tanks - Plumbing

or this
Ameri-Kart 1-1/2" Regular Vent Holding Tank Fitting - Holding Tank Fittings - Black Water Tanks - Plumbing

In your gray tank there should be 3 ports in the tank.

The dump pipe port you can see outside. That has a slider valve on it somewhere where you can unbolt the valve apart to break the connection to later put it back on.

The roof vent pipe port. This comes in the top of the tank, more than likely straight down from the roof. This might be the rubber grommet kind or the solvent weld kind. I do not know what Sunline used, my instinct tells me most likley a solvent weld at the factory.

The grey feed water pipe. This comes from the sinks into the tank and most likley on the upper side or in the top.

Dropping the tank "might" be easier from the outside, if tearing into the floor from the inside creates a mega job to repair.

The issue with dropping the tank is odds are high they are solvent weld fittings and you will need to cut the pipe to get the tank out. The grey feed water pipe you may have to cut inside the camper to disconnect before the tank drop.

The roof vent pipe port, you might get more lucky, when the tank comes down a foot etc, the vent pipe might come down with it. Then you cut the pipe when the tank is down but not removed from the camper yet.

If you are cutting the pipes, cut only where it is good to splice back together.

When you go to install back, you solvent weld a coupling or union back in place if you can actually get to the union or one of these rubber unions if you can get to the screws
Ameri-Kart 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" Rubber Quick Connect with Clamps - Holding Tank Fittings - Black Water Tanks - Plumbing

The benefit of dropping the tank is, once it is out the tank itself can be fixed for the leak. And you have full access to anything gooey etc that has "possibly" oozed out on top causing the stink. Dropping the tank is not a mega job, but it is a job that may be more then you may be able to do. Your helper friend may need to do this. It would not surprise me it is from 2 to 6 hours and then the tank welding to fix the leak. One needs to be cautious on the way in as not knowing all what is going to run into.

If someone had done this before, it may only take 30 to 45 minutes and the tank it out.

Again I cannot see what your camper looks like, pics will help, to know if going in the top inside will be a benefit or a real battle. Since we know for sure the tank is under the camper, the floor joists are between the inside floor and the top of the tank. Odds are high inside the camper, while the floor may come up after figure out how to cut into it and not cut the tank, odds are high you will run right into the metal cover under the camper covering over the top of the tank and you still cannot see the top of the tank from the inside.

My first thought is dropping the tank is what I would do. It is not going to be easy to deal with the pipes, but I could get to the possible heart of the issue and fix the tank leak out in the open with a good permanent tank weld.

There is also a temporary hook up you can do when the tank is out. Since your camper is not moving anywhere fast, just connect the pipes direct to the sewer line. Tee in the vent to this line and leave the tank out. Use the rubber unions with the hose clamps so some day if you want to put the tank back in, you can more easily.

After I see pics of the inside, I might change my mind, but there is still high odds the metal camper bottom cover I'm going to run into trying to go from the top down and still cannot get to the tank top.

Maybe this reply will help guide you on what and how to do this.

John

John,
what a helpful post. i want to clarify a few things. you are saying that the grommets are what is used when connecting the tank to the pipes. and that these pieces may be what has gone bad, allowing gases to flow into the camper rather than being carried out, or up or held in. you suggest dropping the tank so that i can see these grommets and determine if they have gone bad. that is the purpose of cutting the pipes and removing the grey tank.

what pics would be helpful for you? i can see much of the pipes either under the kitchen counter or around the bathroom in closets and such. i even cut a hole in the wall under the stove so that i could see under the toilet area. there are no leaks. but i don't think that's what you're looking for. the other area i saw was under the shower pan most recently, as i described in one of the first posts i wrote in this thread. that was the joint from the grey piping into the grey tank. if you're wondering if going through the top/floor to reach the tank will be easier/harder, i would say that your guess is correct, that going through the top we will run into joists and then the metal sheet that covers under the camper. the tank from what i understand was installed after/over the metal piece. this is why you suggested going in from the bottom. that is definitely out of my league of ability, but my helper should be able to do it, hopefully not taking too long.

the delay will probably be getting the materials to fix whatever the leak is and whatever needs to be replaced once the pipes come off. what can i anticipate and purchase ahead of time if i follow the instructions you, john, suggested for cutting pipes and replacing grommets? do the entire pipes have to replaced or just a portion that has been cut? i'm not much of a plumber.

you say that the grey tank is not a huge job, but should i choose to take my time with it a temporary fix is to add a T and run a new pipe directly into the sewage line. when you say "weld" the tank back in place, do you mean weld as in metal? and if so, which pieces? i thought the tank was all plastic. i'll take another look at those metal fasteners you showed a pic of to see if i have screws also. are these the pieces that need to be welded?

[noralee]

[QUOTE=bunjin;

The point of my pictures is for you to see if you can remove drawers, open cabinet doors, etc. and look at your drain pipe...as well as hot and cold feed lines to see if you have any seepage.

The optical scope may be of use in this kind of exploration. It doesn't require removing the sheetmetal under belly.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

do you mean seepage as in water leak or seepage as in gas? i can see most of the pipes and checked for leaks or signs of leaks.

[EMD_Driver]

Just to give you and idea of what you are looking for, I did a bit of searching. THIS page has several fittings on it..

Here's a pic of a rubber grommet:



Here's an ABS flange fitting. These would be glued/welded to the tank:

[bunjin]

Seepage as in a water leak that in turn could be the source of the smell.

I verified that my 1983 has the ABS flange fitting, not a rubber grommet.

[noralee]

are these grommets external or internal on the pipe? I"m still trying to understand how this is going to work and fit together.