Hot wheels and blown tires !

[Nightlites13]

Hi Steve, Yup, just measured the brakes they are the 2.25. The frame is a rectangle shape tube 2 x 4 inches as is the A frame.
Thanks for the nfo.

[Nightlites13]

OK, SO I think I am going to go with these springs. They are just 250# beefier than the original springs should have been. It seems like A good idea to me to just step up a little which will give me 500# per axle of room if I accidentally over load a little. Does this seem OK?
http://www.truckspring.com/trailer-spring-mts-217.html

The Dexter EZ flex seems like a good idea too. That also give me most of the hardware I need.

New U-Bolts all around.

That leaves just the question of if the axle needs to be replaced or not. I'll wait for feedback on the pix I posted.

Can't seem to get on the Dexter site right now. Is there literature there or a thread here that explains how to get the bearings and the races out of the drum and about cleaning and re-packing the grease.

I'm hoping to be able to order the parts soon.

[Steve Collins]

In one of my posts above, I gave the info on getting the complete Dexter Axle service manual. It has what you want.

[JohnB]

Dan, your pics are not showing again. How exactly are you doing this? I think I know how, you selected the wrong code.

They may show on your PC but they may not for everyone. Some can see and some can’t. I can’t view them with the code you picked on the open forum. It is a problem with some setups. The wrong code can even view in the preview but out on the open forum not all can see. Including me.

In Photo Bucket there are 4 codes with address strings.

Email & IM: Don’t use that here on SOC.

Direct Link: Don’t use that here on SOC.

Html Code: This is the one you used and not everyone can see it. Please try not to use that code. While it may view for you, many cannot see it.

IMG Code: This code views with everyone we know of. We have found everyone can view the pics if this code set it used.

I have put in quotes and a space bar so it will not post. This is all l I see on the screen under your pic just so you know what is going on. That is the HTML code.

“”””””http://[img]http://www.sunlineclub.c....jpg[/img] “””””


Here is the IMG code string. Again in quotes so it will not post. This one will work so all can see. ‘’’’’’’’ ”””””””


To help you out, I back tracked to your site and reposted using the IMG code so everyone can see. It will take me a bit now to review and answer back


Dan’s post in blue.


Thanks Steve, My axle spindle looks just like that, really rough in a spot. Not sure what I am looking for. Have some pix I hope helps. There is some discoloration.

John, What Dexter told me was that they suspected based on what I told them that there may have been an incorrect bearing installed at some point and of course once it's in then the next guy takes the number off the bad one and it keeps going. He said he was not too happy to hear me say the dealer had not changed the race, only inspected it. He told me to get the info off the axle and match it up to the proper bearing to see if they are wrong. He also told me about the blueing and such.
I am a little unclear about the race. There is an inner and outer race?

I am wondering if the tapered piece I still see in the drum that looks machines is in fact actually the outer race? If so, how do I get it out without damaging the machined surface of the drum.

Take a look at the pictures. I don't see anything except some discoloring. There was still grease that looked red in the bearing which surprised me based on how much is all over the rim. Didn't really smell burnt to me either.

Got a pic of both springs to see just for fun and some numbers I will put below.

I was asking before about the torque wrench. Do you think I can finish this job without it or do I need to get one somehow.?

The U bolt with the broken nut. Well, it was worse than that. Nut wasn't broken, just missing. Whoever did that job decided it was good enough with one nut. Must have over tightened the other side and said the heck with it. You could see the U bolt was in tact and apered at the end as it should be. Not even stripped out. That was not the dealer's work where I have been going.

Numbers:
I measured tread on all 4 tires. Biggest swing side to side was about .025 so that semed pretty good. The tire with the on the wheel that had been so hot was actually .050 thicker and then I remembered that it was the tire that blew out last year and had to be replaced so it was a year newer. All the tread looks good to me.

Dexter Axle SLR 12.8 2500lb. max. cap. Excl Rims and tires Ser. No. C1048751.

The frame is 2" wide

Front Left Spring (broken one) 3 leaf: Leaf thickness is approx .330.
25 3/8" eye to eye. and about 3" center to eye center.

Front Right Spring 4 leaf: Leaf thickness approx .405 25 3/8" eye to eye and about 3.25" center to the eye center.

Hanger on the frame is about 29 1/2" eye to eye.

Center triangle piece spacing for the 2 springs is approx. 5.75"

Givenn the axles are rated for 2500 and the GVWR is 5K do the springs need to be 1250's or do you think it would be OK to go up one size as you had mentioned in your earlier post. Or is that only OK if the frame had been beefier?

Rain has been on and off so going to stay in now. Pix below









Can see numbers on the inner bearing only. Don't see any numbers on the outer. The inner is an SK (Made in China...figures) Looks like L68149

[Nightlites13]

Hey John, Sorry about the pic problem. I thought the problem had been using the HTML and adding the Img together so that just the HTML was OK.
I'll try the IMG code next time.

Tanks for the time you are spending on this.
Dan

[JohnB]

Dan, I'm typing now. Be back soon. I see some things that need clarification. Glad to help.

Be back soon

John

[Nightlites13]

John, I'll have to read in the morning. 6AM Monday always seems to come quicker than I think it should

I re-read your picture posting instructions and understand where I went wrong. Thanks

Dan

[JohnB]

Dan

Comments from me in blue. Also unless this is a orientation picture problem, you have brake mounting problem. See below

Originally Posted by Nightlites13

Thanks Steve, My axle spindle looks just like that, really rough in a spot. Not sure what I am looking for. Have some pix I hope helps. There is some discoloration.

John, What Dexter told me was that they suspected based on what I told them that there may have been an incorrect bearing installed at some point and of course once it's in then the next guy takes the number off the bad one and it keeps going. He said he was not too happy to hear me say the dealer had not changed the race, only inspected it. He told me to get the info off the axle and match it up to the proper bearing to see if they are wrong. He also told me about the blueing and such.

OK good. I agree totally with Dexter. What they are saying is correct in your situation that could be occurring.

I am a little unclear about the race. There is an inner and outer race?
Yes, there is what we call and inner race and out race. The race or AKA (cup) is pressed into the brake drum. It is the hardened steel insert machined on an angle. The inner one is the one that is inside the wheel next to the brakes and the grease seal. The outer is the one on the outside next to the bearing nut on the end of the axle.


I am wondering if the tapered piece I still see in the drum that looks machines is in fact actually the outer race? If so, how do I get it out without damaging the machined surface of the drum.

YES, that tapered piece is the race. Outer is next to the bearing nut, inner is under the grease seal by the brake area. The Dexter manual shows how to knock them out. You use a long slender drift punch. Punch comes thru the bore at the back side of the race and you tap it out.


Take a look at the pictures. I don't see anything except some discoloring. There was still grease that looked red in the bearing which surprised me based on how much is all over the rim. Didn't really smell burnt to me either.

This pic is the inner race, brake side under the seal. I do not like the little step at the end of the angle in the race. If that is a step you can feel with your finger nail, it is worn to no longer any good. May have been from too tight or never replaced in a real long time. Unless that is a picture anomaly, that race is no good from what I see.


This pic is the outer race, by the wheel studs. Again unless this is a picture anomaly, that race looks blue tinted from heat. If it is blue, then the steel temper has been affected and is no longer any good.




Got a pic of both springs to see just for fun and some numbers I will put below.

I was asking before about the torque wrench. Do you think I can finish this job without it or do I need to get one somehow.?
Yes you really need a torque wrench. There is really no way around this one from my point of view. There are too many things in question here if the bolts are not torqued right. The U bolts must be torqued even and in steps, the spring pivot bolts must be torqued or you can strip the nut or it come loose. The wheel lug nuts must be torqued and checked at least 3 times every 50 miles once putting the wheel back on. These TT are "lug centric" The lug hold the tire on and hold the load. It is not like in auto's where there is a machined center hub holding teh load. The lugs nut on TT's slightly loosen up until the lug nuit coen seats totally. New patined rims are the worse but even old ones take at least 3 rechecks and then they seem to stop moving. A good idea to check often even after the reseat proceedrue is done.

You do not need a $150 or $300 one. They are great if you have one, but the $30 ½” drive good to 150 ft lb pull till it clicks will work just fine for this. Harbor freight, Tractor Supply, Family Farm and Fleet, Central Tractor, Auto parts stores all have the older style pull until it clicks type. OR even the old style long needle type. You do not need a digital read out or a Snap On dial readout, but you do need to be in the right torque area.


The U bolt with the broken nut. Well, it was worse than that. Nut wasn't broken, just missing. Whoever did that job decided it was good enough with one nut. Must have over tightened the other side and said the heck with it. You could see the U bolt was in tact and apered at the end as it should be. Not even stripped out. That was not the dealer's work where I have been going. Not good, I’m surprised the dealer did not see it even if they did not do it.

Numbers:
I measured tread on all 4 tires. Biggest swing side to side was about .025 so that semed pretty good. The tire with the on the wheel that had been so hot was actually .050 thicker and then I remembered that it was the tire that blew out last year and had to be replaced so it was a year newer. All the tread looks good to me.

H’mm – How many miles are on the tires? The blow out from last year, how many miles was on it? We still have to get back to why you blew out a tire once we get the TT rolling again….


Dexter Axle SLR 12.8 2500lb. max. cap. Excl Rims and tires Ser. No. C1048751.
The Dexter 2500# max, tell me how you know that? Is the axle a D35 axle tube? Some times the axle tube itself is a higher rating and then the springs lower the ratings. If the axle tube is a 2500# tube, then there are issues going higher in spring force. If it is a 3500# tube but had 2,500# worth of springs (qty 2, 1,250's) on it, then we can up the springs, but only then. If it is actually a 2,500 lb tube, loading it more can cause loose of camber in the axle. Dexter also makes a D28 which I think is a 2800# tube. I myself cannot identify with the SLR 12.8. The newer axles use D numbers.

From the Dexter info I have then sent me:

The common D35 axle is 3” OD on the main tube. (3500# axle tube)
They also make a D35H heavy wall smaller OD that is 2.38” OD main tube.
The D28H is also a 2.38” OD but a thinner main tube.

What is the OD of the main axle tube? You may have to call Dexter to confirm you do indeed have a 3,500# axle tube before you upgrade the springs.


The frame is 2" wide

Front Left Spring (broken one) 3 leaf: Leaf thickness is approx .330.
25 3/8" eye to eye. and about 3" center to eye center.

Front Right Spring 4 leaf: Leaf thickness approx .405 25 3/8" eye to eye and about 3.25" center to the eye center.

On the 3 leaf, are all 3 springs about .330? And on the 4 pack are all 4, 0.405”

Those thickness do not line up right with the force chart. The force chart might be off to the length or your have something unique. Try and measure each leaf and the entire spring stack in the center of the spring. Compare all 3 or 4 to the individual numbers to confrim


Hanger on the frame is about 29 1/2" eye to eye.

Center triangle piece spacing for the 2 springs is approx. 5.75"

Givenn the axles are rated for 2500 and the GVWR is 5K do the springs need to be 1250's or do you think it would be OK to go up one size as you had mentioned in your earlier post. Or is that only OK if the frame had been beefier?

The axle tube must be large enough first. We have to get that firmed up. If your frame and Steves frame are the same, then the frame has good odds of being able to up them. But is the axle tube can’t take it, then we have other issues. Let’s get that figure out.

OK Dan now stuff I see.

Tell me how you took this pic?


Did you invert the image? Is the magent coil on top?

This pic looks like you took it shooting towards the ground. I can see the brake pivot pin on the bottom.


Please back up and take a pic showing the ground and the brake shoes so we can see which direction is the front of the camper and how these braek plates are mounted.

If that pic is not rotated 180 degrees unless you have some special thing specail, your brakes plates are mounted upside down. The action is not optimum.

The brake is suppose to be mounted so the lever arm if pointing forward and the magnet on the bottom. Like this.

This pic is the RIGHT side of the TT. There are left and right brake plates for each sdie of the TT. This pics has 2 RH plates.


This brake plate is oriented so the top is like how it goes on the TT. The magnet is on the bottom. The pivot point is on the top. Teh primary and secondary shoes then follow correctly. This one mounts on the RIGHT side of the TT. (Passenger car side) One for the left side will be made opposite hand, but the magent is still on the bottom and the magnet arm still towards the front.



See this one off my T2499. This is a 10 x 2 .25 brakes like yours. This is on the RIGHT side of the camper.


Please check what you have and report back.

It’s late, more on Monday

Hope this helps

John

[JohnB]

Dan

Also take more pics of the axle stub shaft where the bearings go. That 1 pic looked a little rough where the bearing goes and I can't tell how good or not the other bearing surface is by the seal area.

Thanks

John

Also, please size pics to no more then 640 wide. The screen then does not scroll so bad.

[JohnB]

Dan

Forgot to ask 1 other thing, when you took the hot wheel drum off, did you do any of the bearing end play checks I sugested? The info from that may help point to what was wrong.

Thanks

John

[Steve Collins]

John,

My frame and A-frame is 4" tall by 1.5" wide C-channel. It appears to be hot-rolled structural steel.


Dan's is 4" tall by 2" wide steel tubing including the A-frame. That would normally be cold-rolled or stamped from sheet steel, if memory serves.

[Nightlites13]

John, I will try and take some more pictures tonight. Maybe set up my mini tripod and turn the flash off to avoid the glare in the photo. That one photo the focus was set too low on the wires and not the spindle.

I am 99% sure the photos were taken after I had the springs out so the axle rotated 180 degrees down since I have it up on timber and with the offset or drop of the axle the drums and hubs wanted to hang down so I believe that clears up the magnet location problem.

You asked how I knew the ratings of the axle. That info was simply everytihng that was stamped into the tag on the axle.

Spoke with Dexter today again. Sending photos to the tech. Based on the info I gave them they told me the hub and spindle are the same size used on the 3500 lb axle and the axle tube at 2 /38 was the same also so he felt it was no problem to go up to a 1750 lb spring. Unfortuanately he (unlike everyone else) said he has seen mismatched springs on camper trailer to compensate for uneven floor plan so now I am really unsure what to do. Sure would love to hear from someone with the same model as I have.

John, you mentioned about figuring out my blown tire problem when we get the rest fixed. I was really thinking and hoping that the blown tires were a result of excessive heat on the rims. The times the blow outs happened aspecially the most recent time a year ago the rim was too hot to work with and was very hard to change because of that until it cooled down.

In an earlier post I mentioned that there was a 72 over a 22 stamped on the 3 leaf left side springs. Found out from Dexter that is their part number and is a 1250lb spring. At least that confirms that. Going to look tonight at the heavier spring to try and find any number on it.

I do not have access to a dial indicator and with the drop axle I couldn't see a good way to get any valuable data on "wobble" Sorry. I did rotate it and look for anything obvious but could not see anything.

So I will measure those other springs, take more pics and report back if I heard any more from Dexter.

[Nightlites13]

John, please see previous post as well.
Pictures. Hopefully show up for all and are the correct size.
First is upward shot of spindle with no flash and on the tripod.


Trying to show the outer race again better


Inner


Inner using macro to try and get more detail.


Shot with ground for reference. Also notice axle is inverted. Supported by wood and jack stand.


Another spindle shot. Camera range finder does not like the shiny surface.


Dexter got my email and said they will respond tomorrow.

Leaf springs: 3-leaf. All 3 approx. .325 Dexter 1250lb spring confirmed.
4-leaf All 4 approx. .390. only markings are MCK UNA-221 Searched for this on line and found a match. It is listed as a 3000 lb spring. Almost 3 times what it should be.

Does it seem possible that maybe with such a stiffer spring sharing an axle that everytime it hit a bump that most of the force would be kicked over to the weaker side causing them to get more wear and tear and no sharing the load evenly would put all kinds of stress on things??
Finding that has convinced me that someone put the wrong thing on at some point because even if there had been a difference where the factory had to beef up that side it would not be that big of a step up in capacity.

So with that info and Dexter's info I just need to decide between the 1500 and the 1750's.

Now, just to try and decide if I need a new axle. Just worried all this work and research and when it is all done I'm still going to have a heat problem unless I can find a solid reason for the cause.

I have 2 friends with torque wrenches they are willing to loan me..Yeah!

Look forward to the feedback.

[JohnB]

Dan

Good hunting today. Here are some things to maybe help you decide what to do.

The frame. Here are some things on the frame size as far as strength is concerned to think thru when sizing the springs upgrade. Steve gave this off his and yours. His is 5,500 GVWR and your 5,000 GVWR TT.

Originally Posted by Steve Collins

John,

My frame and A-frame is 4" tall by 1.5" wide C-channel. It appears to be hot-rolled structural steel.


Dan's is 4" tall by 2" wide steel tubing including the A-frame. That would normally be cold-rolled or stamped from sheet steel, if memory serves.

CONFIRM your frame is 4 x 2 structural tube and 3/16 thick side wall.

I looked up what should be Steves C4 x 5.4 channel. It has a 0.184” thick (or 3/16 by ruler) web. That shape has a moment of Inertia on the axis it is bending in of 3.85 in/4th.

If your structural tube is 4 x 2 with a 0.187 wall thickness, then that shape has a moment of Inertia on the X axis of 3.87 in/4th.

So in pure bending strength along the 4” wide dimension, Steve’s frame and yours are equivalent. The Moment of Inertia of a shape is used as part of the calculation in beam strength. The higher the number the stronger the beam.

Now in the left to right axis of bending, (sideways) the C4 x 5.4 channel is 0.319 in/4th and the 4 x 2 tube is 1.29 in/4th . They are not equivalent in that direction, the tube can take more side loading.

As a point of reference, my 2004 T2499 has 5” wide C5 x 6.7 channel with a web thickness of 0.190” And it has a moment of Inertia on the X axis of 7.49 in/4th. That extra 1” of width made a large jump in strength even for the same web thickness. And that TT is rated 7,000# GVWR with 1,750# springs each.

Cross bracing also helps stiffen up the TT from left to right sway/flexing. Point is: Steves camper has 5,500# GVWR with 2,750# worth of rated axle springs. Or 1,375# each. His frame has not split and there are many other Sunline 5,500# GVWR TT on that same 4” channel.

The look I did in the Moment of Inertia is a quick look to show a level of comparison, not all comprehensive. Going to 1,750# springs on the 4 x 2 tube frame is charting unproven Sunline ground. We have a level of assurance it can handle a 5,500GVWR or 1,375 # springs. The 1,500# springs might work but I’m not a trailer designer to say its OK. I would say no to the 1,750# on that frame size. Dexter builds TT frames for a living, they may be able to OK the 1,500#. They build Jayco’s frames. I do not know what safety factor Sunline used. That is about all I can help on the spring size. I myself would not go above the 5,500# total trailer weight for frame considerations once the springs are upsized. AND you still need to weigh the TT once we get past this suspension saga…

This axle stub does not look bad in this pic. The bearing surfaces look OK. Dexter should have a spec on the OD of those 2 areas. A micrometer is best but a good caliper will get you real close if the are worn down by a spinning bearing on the shaft.


However this view shows a possible wear grove. Is it? If that is wear grove and depending on how deep it is, it “may” allow the outer bearing to rock and that then cause a race wearing issue. Try go get a depth of it or confirm it is a groove. Dexter can then comment on it. If the groove is 0.0010 deep well it may not be that bad, if it is 0.005 deep well maybe that is a problem. Technically a machine shop can fix that (spray metal and turn) but remember the price of a new axle tube is about ~ maybe $120 for a drop axle tube. The machine shop would be more then the new axle most likely.





I would see what Dexter comes back with and confirm it is or is not a groove and how deep. Your calipers can measure the OD of the groove and subtract from the good surface.

Is this a burnish or a groove as well on the inner shaft bearing surface?


The races. Are these pits or bumps fused on the surface? See red arrow. If so it’s toasted. The blue looks like a wear grove, maybe only 0.005”. Can you feel it with your finger nail trying to catch on it?


This outer race, it’s hard to tell from the pics. It looks like a heat tint and maybe a burnishing from the bearing mess up. It does not look smooth like a new one or one wearing well.


So I guess you have this sorted out except the axle. If those wear groves are deep to what Dexter says is no good, then a axle stub repair or new is a prudent thing. If the groves are only a stain, then it at least looks OK from here thru the screen.

While you have Dexter on the phone, ask who is the selling distributor in Elkhart. They most likely make up each axle to order. That selling distributor down the street can get you one faster then any other distributor most likely. You will need the axle tube size you have now, a brake drum machined surface face to face dim, and a axle seat center to center location. And it’s a drop axle and which side the axle seat is welded on. They have a form to fill out. UPS delivers it to your door.

I used Axle Inc in Elkhart but mine where Al Ko. I’ll say this, use Dexter. I was not please with what I was shipped. Axle Inc did OK but the product was not what I had hoped for.

Good luck and hope this helps

John

PS. OK brakes are right, axle flipped 180. GOOD!!! And you have a torque wrench from a buddy. Double GREAT!

[Nightlites13]

John, Thank you.

I think at this point if the axle can be had for around $200 or less I am going to replace it.

Do you think the drum is OK as it is if I replace the bearings and races?

Sounds like the 1500lb springs are the way to go.

I have to think with those 3000 lb springs on the other side that had to be putting loading on the side with the 1250's

Did I graduate the posting pictures on SOC course this time

John and the others that contributed, thank you. Hope you guys have a great time in upstate NY. Hope we can meet you in person and shake a few hands another time.
I'll post if I get it all back together and let you know the weight and how it went.

Thanks,
Dan

[vcrt]

Jon (Sunline fan) emailed me to tell me about this thread and asked if I could check the tag on my trailer which is the same year and model. I replaced one or two springs myself and the other two may have already been replaced, so there might not be any factory tags left but tomorrow, I will look under there and post what I find.
Rich

[JohnB]

Hi Dan

Sorry I forgot last night. YES you get an A+ on pic posting YEH

Now to you questions. The brake drum. On the inner side of the drum on the outside rim, there should be stamped a max ID. If that ID is large then that Max, the is is time to replace for sure. If you have large deep grooves in the brake surface, then it is time to refinish or change. The magnet surface can handle more radial scratches but if it is really messed up, (not normally). Then it needs to be replaced. If the brake and magnet surface is OK and the bores are not messed up, then the actual drum should be OK.

Yes you will need new bearings and races. Right now if the one wheel has bad races because they may have never got changed, it is suspect the other 3 may be in the same boat. The races for sure in the hot drum need to be changed along with the bearings. If it where me, I would rebuild new bearings/races seal on all 4 wheels and then know I have and it is done right.

Like I mentions earlier, try and get the double lip grease seal with the garter spring around the inside. They sell the single lip, but for a few cents more you can get the good double seal. The seals need to be replaced too. I have no idea why they sell that sinlge lip seal.

Now the springs. I apologize if you miss understood me I may not ahve explained this well enough. I did a structural shape comparison between your 4 x 2 tube frame and Steve’s 4” channel. First part of this is to confirm your tube frame is 3/16” thick. If it is 1/8” thick then this creates issues as Steve’s frame is then stronger in bending. If your frame comes out to be 3/16 thick tube and is 4 x 2, then up’ing the springs to the 1,375# area has a level of field testing already on it and your risk should be very low of a problem.

Up’ing to the 1,375# area gives 5,500# of axle capacity but the TT has a sticker of 5,000 GVWR. By going from the 1,250# original springs to the 1,375# gives basically 500# more cushion total and 250# on the side to be able to deal with one side of the TT heavier and still be OK on the springs. For the frame comparisons, if yours is 3/16” thick, suggests you should not have issues providing you stay the 5,000# max GVW loaded number.

There is an issue of going too heavy I do believe on the springs. Right now your dry weight is 3,800# by the catalog. Sunline put 1,250# springs on with a axles ratings allowing of 5,000#. So that is 1,200# more weight in spring then the declared max. That results in a level of bounce in the TT when empty. Naturally you add gear and weight and then that stiffness level gets lower. And in your case, you may be over the rating.

If you where to put 1,750# springs (7,000# carrying capacity) in to not worry about breaking them, even if you only load to 5,000# that would be 2,000# of extra stiff spring or 40% extra spring then needed. This could result in a very stiff ride and bounce the TT really hard. I have a camping Buddy with a 2008, 32 foot Terry TT and they put springs too heavy on by accident at the factory and he had his rig bounce so hard the stuff would come out of the cabinets. He finally complained enough and they figured out the problem. Gave him the right new springs and life was good.

Point is, going to heavy creates extra bounce that you cannot get rid of as you cannot load the spring to not be in that area.

I know you where not thinking of the 1,750’s but now the 1,500’s. The 1,500# springs will give 6,000# of spring capacity. Well starting with a dry weight of 3800# to 6,000# of spring is 2,200# of more spring not including the truck is carrying any weight. We do not know your gear weight yet and suspect it is more then you think, so lets estimate you are like many of us. Plus you have kids maybe to go in the bunks and they add more stuff… Your gear could be 1,200 to 1,300#. Technically that should not of broke your 1,250# spring as the truck is holding part of the weight. But you might have an unbalanced load aggravating the problem.

So, 3800# dry + 1300# gear = 5,100# Lets say 12% of that is held by the truck on the tongue. So 4,488# is left on the axles. That 4,488# loading on the springs in relation to 6,000# of spring is still 1,512# or 25% more capacity left. That might create a very stiff ride on a camper that small. So stiffness we need to keep in mind.

Next is frame strength. We know from Steves generation TT, that the axle loads could be up to 5,500#. Actually not because the truck carry’s some but the frame was intended that it could handle that weight. Due to this fact and the stiffer spring issue, I would not go above the 1,375 to 1,400# area on the springs unless Dexter says that frame can take it.

Point: I do not feel that frame can handle more then the 5,500# max loading if you ever got it that heavy and that is only after verifying your tube is 3/16” thick. So putting in, 6,000# worth of springs means you will have extra stiffness you can not ever get rid of. And for sure, it will in time have frame issue with a 6,000# load.

I’m sorry if I did not explain that well enough last night. Hope this better explanation will help you make your decision. I do not know if you talked to Dexter in this light of too stiff and if the frame could take the weight. A call to them may help clarify all this.

Good luck and for sure take pic’s of your rebuild. You can be the 2nd axle rebuild post…. You are doing great and we are rooting for you all the way. When you get done you will know the system and know it is done right.

Hope this helps

John

PS. In case you did not have enough to already read.... here is some good info from Dexter on trailer frame and suspenion design
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1080235/f/Appli...te_Catalog.pdf

PS 2. I'm now curious on VCRT's springs and if he ever weighed his rig.

[Nightlites13]

John, thanks. I forgot about the wall thickness. That is the only thing I did not measure last night. I thought I was all ready to order. I guess I figured since I determined the springs on the right side were 3000 pound springs and have been on it for the 4 years we have had the trailer that going to the 1500 all around would be OK. I definately think the uneven stiffness on the axle must have been a contributing factor to the break.

You explained everything incredibly well but give me a lot to think about. I want to get parts ordered but not get the wrong thing.

Wondering about bearings. Noticed a single bearing on Dexter's site was 18-20 dollars and on one of those other sites that was mentioned a whole kit both bearings for both sides of the axle plus a seal plus dustcaps, nuts, cotter pin was in the same price range. I got to think the bearings can't possibly be any good at that price but Dexter seems high on these. Just wondering where you have gotten bearings and had good luck.

pondering all my decisions some more.......Sounds like you think I should go with the 1250's regardless. ??
Dan

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Nightlites13

John, thanks. I forgot about the wall thickness. That is the only thing I did not measure last night. I thought I was all ready to order. I guess I figured since I determined the springs on the right side were 3000 pound springs and have been on it for the 4 years we have had the trailer that going to the 1500 all around would be OK. I definately think the uneven stiffness on the axle must have been a contributing factor to the break.

You explained everything incredibly well but give me a lot to think about. I want to get parts ordered but not get the wrong thing.

Wondering about bearings. Noticed a single bearing on Dexter's site was 18-20 dollars and on one of those other sites that was mentioned a whole kit both bearings for both sides of the axle plus a seal plus dustcaps, nuts, cotter pin was in the same price range. I got to think the bearings can't possibly be any good at that price but Dexter seems high on these. Just wondering where you have gotten bearings and had good luck.

pondering all my decisions some more.......Sounds like you think I should go with the 1250's regardless. ??
Dan

Dan

Bearings. The sad state of affairs today is on TT’s 99% of them brand new and even old ones have Made in China bearings in them. If you order new bearings from Dexter odds are they are the Made in China type but at least to a level of quality they consider acceptable. The only way I know of to get US made Timken brand bearings is to actually order them yourself and they will out last the life of the TT if you grease them every year properly. Cost, the Timkens are about $12 each bearing. $24 a wheel and $96 a total TT. OK so now what…. The bearings off of Etrailer or Eastern Marine are China bearings and a fraction of the price.

The kit off Etrailer or Eastern is around $13 for the whole wheel. Both inner and out bearings, races, seal and cotter pin.

What do I do, I buy a known name brand at least to have a level of quality assurance. They still have that Made in China on them. Errr but every year I tear them down, grease inspect and stay on top of it. Proper lube and bearing setting is paramount. I buy brand name grease, In my case it is Citgo, but Mobile, Shell, Valvoline etc wheel bearing grease are just as fine too. I have bought bearings from both Etrailer and Eastern. By staying on top of them, I have not had any issues.

Dexter is high on price on many items. I use them Direct when the price is in line like on the EZ flex kit. Right now they are the cheapest of any retailer. But most everything else the same Dexter pn in the same Dexter boxes is cheaper from the other retailers.

The springs. This is what I would do if it was mine.

I would verify the frame is 3/16” thick. If it was then I know I have a chance to upsize the springs 1 size. If it is not, then that is it and I would go 1,250’s

In your TT case, I would consider upgrading the springs just 1 size to 1,375# to give me a level of off center loading freedom. That is a compromise to gain some buffer for side loading but not too stiff that I created a heavy bouncing problem and frame issues.

Once loaded and the TT put back together I would add fresh water and go to a scale. Weigh the rig both compete including a tongue weight. Now I know exactly where I was and what “might’ be part of the original problem with that floor plan and the way I put stuff in it.
I would if I could, also get just 1 side of wheels on the scale at a time so I can see left to right axle loads. This might be easy or hard depending on what scale is available. Then I know for a fact, I’m not overloading that side of the camper and the loads are balanced well enough or not and I have to move something.

Now the entire TT weight. Just because I put on higher load springs I would not try to get a lot more weight carrying capacity. The Vin sticker is there and states 5,000# GVWR. I would try and manage to that number as best I can. For frame strength reasons and another one that I hope I never have to deal with. If I where ever involved in an accident and I was considered to be partly in fault, the Troopers could put my TT on the scales to verify weights. All they look at is the Vin sticker and say, he was or was not grossly over weight. The GVWR in the private setting from what I have read is not a legal limit but it can be used against you by the other parties lawyer as operating a vehicle out side of the manufactures recommendation.

What I may find in all this weighing is, that the gear I carry eats up all the GVWR. The gear is pretty essential to me and it’s no fun not camping without it. That then means I really cannot haul the 340 some pounds of fresh water and I have to fill up at camp. I use to be in that case on my old camper and tongue weight. My 3/4 ton Suburban could not handle any more tongue weight on the TV GVWR. So until I rebalanced the TT, I could not haul fresh water. A 1,200# tongue weight was all the truck I had at the time.

Hope this helps you decide what you will do. What I stated is just an opinion and what I would do. Use it as a sounding board not a hard and fast has to be. You have to weigh all your options and then make your own decision that fits you best.

Good luck.

John

[Nightlites13]

Thanks John for the summary. That was very helpful. I was in research over load. I will measure the frame thickness tonight and make my decision.

Take care.