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Old 09-10-2009, 10:50 AM   #21
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Dan

Need to help you with the pics. They are all garbled text. BUT I can read the path and went to your photo bucket site. And created teh right likns so tehy sho up here. Next time just copy the IMG code selection from photo bucket and they will show up to all of us.

To others following along here is Dan's pics and words. Now I have to read them and figure out what I'm seeing.

Dans comments in blue

Left side springclose up



Close up of the broken spring on the trailing side of the axle. Can clearly see the 3 leaf stack and how far the bolts come through the plate.


Obviously the break. You can see the top leaf broke most recent but the spring below it has the same jagged pattern but is rusty.


The other side of the break.


Looking across the camper to the right side. You can see the 4 leaf stack.


Close up right side. This is the other end of the axle with the broken spring. Looks like the bottom leaf might be slightly out of position?


Right side again of the axle with break. I noticed the space under the plate on the top of the leaf stack. Looks like the axle rotated slightly?


Over head view of break.


VIN




Hope that sheds some light. Thank you for the instructions to post the pix.
As soon as I get a replacement spring in I am going to weigh it. There is a scale fairly close by.

Going to ask the dealer today about the different springs and see what they have to say.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:27 AM   #22
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Dan

The pics sure help!!! OK now we can see some of what you are up against.

This is what I see so far.

This pics here. See that small metal strap that goes around the leafs, that may be a stamped rating tag. There may be one on each end. Wire brush off the dirt and it may show you the spring pack ratings for a 3 leaf system. That would be real good to know.



This pic here shows a real problem unless this is an optical illusion. The U bolts are not tight and drawing the spring pack up against the axle seat. This can and will cause issues. The U bolts have to be tight to hold the spring pack together or else the load is not spread out to all spring leafs correctly. And it can crack the main leaf right in the middle where the pilot bolt goes.

And after looking closer, a nut if broke off the end of one of those U bolts rendering that 1 U bolt almost useless. And 1 nut being off can loosen up the entire spring pack. While this one did not break, yet, it will in time if left go like this.

Also, as shown in the pic there is an aluminum tag on the axle tube. That generally has a manufacture and weight rating or model number. What is it? That will tell us the axle tube rating.



Here we can see the gap.


The break. Your right. The middle leaf broke first. Can tell by the rust. Maybe the last trip out before this one. How long wsa it between trips? The rust it not that heavy yet. Once the middle leaf was gone, the main leaf has to work harder and one bad bump may have taken it out.


I want to study the rest more, as there is more yet to learn, but that much I already saw jump out at me during lunch time.

Hope this helps

John

PS Boy you sure had a heck of a ride to nurse that home with the spring separated like that. How did you mange it? Just in case some day I have too…
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:21 PM   #23
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Thank you John for fixing the pix. I previewed the post before submission and they showed up so I thought I was good. Guess I do not need the Img if I have the code.

I can't believe I didn't see that. Sure looks like 1 nut is broken and the whole stack is loose. I would have thought the dealer would have noticed some of this before. Not rushing to judge but a couple friends here at work said it's time to do it yourself and figure it out because no one else will be as careful or scrutinize things as much.

I used to work on my own cars a lot but have done so less and less mostly because of time so I think I have any of the tools I need and with the fantastic help here I hope I can get it all straight.

I called the dealer. Their position is that it was used when they got it and have no idea (Understandably) how the mis matched springs got on there. They also feel they should all be the same as all of you have said. Since they say there is no way to determine what was actually originally on the trailer they suggest replacing the left side with the 4 leaf spring stack so they all match. So for now those parts are on order unless anybody has any better ideas. Not sure where else to purchase either so sticking with it.

If that U bolt is broken as it appears I will obviously repplace it too and then see where we are I guess. I figure I will need to replace the bearings on the wheel that got so hot and several suggestions to replace the spindle. Some have said it may be a "bolt on" type and the dealer has said to replace the whole axle. I wish I knew the right answer and well I wish I had looked at this closer myself earlier.

More info as I find it tonight.
Thanks, Dan

Thank you. Have to look closer when I get home.
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Old 09-10-2009, 04:14 PM   #24
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That's wierd...they all showed up just fine for me the first time and they still show up in the original pic post.

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Old 09-10-2009, 07:45 PM   #25
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Good Eye John, The nut is absolutely busted off and the whole thing is not tight. That is the other end of the axle that the spring broke on. Got the broken spring all apart tonight. A little PB Blaster and a half hour later everything came apart without breaking. Seems to be a lot of slop in all the hangers on that side. The one I took apart the holes are elongated so hopefully I can get a hardware kit with bolts, nuts and bushings.

With the spring out I looked at the metal clip that was around the leaf sections. On one end it has a 72 over top of a 22. On the other end is clearly stamped 500. Just in front of the 500 is either another 5 or an R. Mostly looks like an R to me but can't tell for sure. Didn't have time to look at the other end.

Really got discouraged however after I got the hanger brackets off and then compared them to the hangers the dealer replaced prior to delivery of the TT. The hole spacing is approx. 2.25'' on the three other wheels and the new hanger they put in the hole spacing is approx. 2.56''. Won't that possibly change the position of the axle since the spring may or may not be the correct length. 4 years after the fact how do I approach the whole mess with them. Just wondering where it will end, the more I look the more I find wrong. Any thoughts on this?

As for the limping home. We were stopping every 20 minutes or so and waiting to let the wheel cool off and keeping the speed under 40. I had hoped we would make it. Didn't want to leave the TT on the side of the road in Upstate NY. So we were closer to home when the spring let go. About 20 minutes normal driving time. Took us an hour. I left the truck in 1st gear and crawled about 15-20 MPH on the side. I dialed the brake controller down to it's lowest setting so the wheel wouldn't lock and jam the axle back into the other wheel. (Or at least in my mind that made sense at the time) and so at that speed we barely touched the brakes all the way home. Tied up the broken spring half with a bungee so we weren't dragging and at least it's in our driveway.

Anyway, All I had time for tonight. Any ideas on ordering these parts or do you think the dealer is the best bet for now?
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:27 PM   #26
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Dan

A few thoughts. First is you where trying to decide to take this rebuild on yourself or have the dealer do it. Here are my thoughts as some of the same ones ran thru my mind when I rebuilt mine.

First off I’m not a suspension specialist, what I learned I had to dig and research, write letters to 3 axle manufactures and only 1 responded. Dexter, I praise them every time I can. I tried to find and explain my axle issues to a few actual big dealers who where also factory axle distributors. Come to find out the ones I went to only changed parts. I knew more then they told me as far as factory specs for axles and locations. ….. If a customer had a new TT with axle issues, the would order a new axle and install it. It was either right or wrong as they do not have means to check alignment. I was after the nitty gritty technical reasons of what was affecting what as mine where so messed up I could not believe it was that bad.

I do work on industrial machines for a living and have worked on many types of heavy equipment and automotive. So I had the skills and tools just was lacking the what was technically right. After I figured out what right was suppose to be, I set out on how to create it. Mine may be 5 times more accurate then most or needs to be, but it meets Dexter factory specs. There is nothing precsion about TT suspension....

Now to you. You said you use to do some wrenching but had been away from it. I totally understand and the time piece….. The most dangerous part is jacking up the TT and supporting it so it is off the ground. Then I see 6 x 6 timmers and 2 x 6 block under your TT… that you allready did . So you may already be equipped to do this. If you have 6 x 6 timber and can block up 4 areas not more then 18” away from a spring hanger and the TT be level, you should be able to overcome as I suspect you may have already. This one is your call. You know your limits.

And you are past the knuckle busting part on the U bolts. The rest is not that much worse. We can help point you where to technically go to find info, but it comes down to how comfortable are you doing this type of work. OK enough here, you tell us how you want to approach.

Now to parts. Here are 4 places I have bought from and had positive experiences with. I have no affliction with them, just they gave good service.

Etrailer. They have a lot of almost everything. http://www.etrailer.com/c-ls.htm

Eastern Marine. They have a lot of almost everything too. http://shop.easternmarine.com/

Southwest Wheel. They have a lot of almost everything, just not as much Dexter. More Alko. http://www.trailerpart.com/

And Dexter themselves. They now have an online store for parts direct. Some times they are cheaper other times the on line stores are cheaper. http://www.dexteraxle.com/

You can call all those places to find out particulars and make sure you have the right part numbers to buy. Or we can help you dig too.

Now to the Sunline Springs. Sunline in many cases used special shorter springs. I ran in a fellow Sunliner named Art at the Buttonwood M & G the past 2 years and he has broken spring issues on his T264 SR. He found 2 places that he stated use to sell these springs to Sunline.

MGS Incorporated in Denver PA http://www.mgstrailerstore.com/index.asp

And Bud Spring in Lancaster PA. I cannot find a web site but have address and phone number.

Bud’s Spring & Suspension Service
1420 Arcadia Rd
Lancaster PA 17601
Phone: 717-392-3416

I have never used either but Art now carries a spare spring since he broke 2 of them and if he is out west, no one carry’s the shorter Sunline style springs. I myself was going to order 1 but never made it there yet.

I thought you said you had your dealer order a spring. How do they know the size and eye length? They make several different lengths. Heads up to measure what you have and make sure where ever you order is the right length, width, arch height and leaf thickness.

Rebuilding the bearings and grease, yes this needs to be done. It is not that hard if you are into automotive. Here is another one of my pic posts. These where from my T2499. I never made it to post here on SOC club yet. Most likely yours is the same as this one. 10 x 2 ¼ brakes. Annual Brake Inspection and Axle Re - Lube (Pic's) You can look that over and see if it is something you want to take on. If you are automotive handy, doing these brakes are not an issue. There is also a Dexter service manual link on there.

OK now to your comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightlites13
Good Eye John, The nut is absolutely busted off and the whole thing is not tight. That is the other end of the axle that the spring broke on. Got the broken spring all apart tonight. A little PB Blaster and a half hour later everything came apart without breaking. Seems to be a lot of slop in all the hangers on that side. The one I took apart the holes are elongated so hopefully I can get a hardware kit with bolts, nuts and bushings.

With the spring out I looked at the metal clip that was around the leaf sections. On one end it has a 72 over top of a 22. On the other end is clearly stamped 500. Just in front of the 500 is either another 5 or an R. Mostly looks like an R to me but can't tell for sure. Didn't have time to look at the other end.

Really got discouraged however after I got the hanger brackets off and then compared them to the hangers the dealer replaced prior to delivery of the TT. The hole spacing is approx. 2.25'' on the three other wheels and the new hanger they put in the hole spacing is approx. 2.56''. Won't that possibly change the position of the axle since the spring may or may not be the correct length. 4 years after the fact how do I approach the whole mess with them. Just wondering where it will end, the more I look the more I find wrong. Any thoughts on this?
The U bolts, when you install the new springs, buy new U bolts. They do not cost that much and are available on the web sites I listed above. There are torque specs on them. If you need, let me know I’ll dig them up. They must be torqued and tightened in the right pattern.

OK we may have a few word descriptions mixed up. You said oblong hangers and hole spaceing 2.25 and 2.56. The spring hangers are welded to the frame. But the shackles are links that go from the spring eye to the center equalizer and they go get worn and oblong. I suspect what you are going to find is, your nylon spring bushings, maybe even the hanger pins and the shackle plates are worn to the point of being shot. Since the original ones where non grease-able, they die in about 10K to 15K miles on the nylon bushings. Then the pins start to go. And then the shackles.

See this link for suspension terms and how to measure leaf springs. http://www.easternmarine.com/em_stor...tech_info.html

Key is finding he right parts numbers to buy. That is a search mission

Here is one Dexter sold upgrade kit http://dexteraxle.com/inc/sdetail/1047

And the same kit on Eastern Marine cheaper. They show the 2 ¼ center shackle. BUT check the equalizer dimensions as there are a few different ones. http://shop.easternmarine.com/index....categoryID=181

Eastern marine also sells exactly what you have now with no upgrades. Cost will be less, just it will wear out in about 10K miles pending dirt and dust conditions.

I think what you mean is the shackles are worn. You can buy the exact some ones you have now or you can upgrade to heavy duty ones with bronze bushing and grease fittings.

Here see the heavy duty next to the standard from my upgrade.


Now 1 shackle being 2.56 center, that is not great but it will not change the axle location. It will change the loading on the axles as the center equalizer link is no longer equal. The actual front and rear spring hangers determine axle locations and they are welded to the frame.

If you want to see about doing a suspension upgrade see this post of mine. Dexter EZ Flex Equalizer Upgrade With Many Pic's It will let you know how complex or not it is. I went with the rubber equalizer upgrade but they sell the bronze grease-able kits with the rigid equalizer too.

The axles, I seriously doubt they are bolt on stub ends. Most are welded to the axle tube. Before I would replace the axle tube I would check it that it has a problem. The dealer stated to replace the axle, OK why? What did they check to find was out of tolerance and if so what where the data findings? I know I have a machine shop background, but I at least expect a technical reason that I can see adds up.

At the point you are almost at now, you can check the axles and the alignment yourself. It is going to take some time though. But you will know it when your done. And worst case, new axle tubes are about $110 ea. Yours probably less if they have a problem. Mine where 6,000# axles. If you are going to buy new axle tubes, need to give you the heads up on how to order.

I think you may now be in info overload or followed right along.

This will help give you a heads up for what you are into so you can decide how far you want to take this.

Hope this helps

John

PS The dealer 4 years later, I doubt there will legally be any recourse you can get. It could be less frustration to just buy the right new shackle and chalk it up to a learning like the rest of us do. Me too.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:33 AM   #27
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Terrific info John. I look forward to re-reading it at home to absorb it better.

I feel like I can do the work. I have the whole camper up enough to have all 4 wheels off the ground. (Jack stands and some 6x6 and a couple cinder blocks) I am just lost in the what parts should I get and where. I want someone to back up a truck dump everything I need in the drive way and I can get to work

The oblong holes I was referring to are on what I thought were called hanger plates that are in the center between the 2 wheels. As you said the nylon bushings are all worn out. The picture you have is exactly what mine look like. The wheel with the different shackles are from the dealer. I'm hoping that you would say the slightly longer piece was OK. They are a heavier plate but it was the hole spacing being about 3/8 longer that concerned me. That is the rear axle.

I am comfortable with replacing all the U bolts. I can probably get those locally even. There is a couple local spring shops. I don't think those are anything special.

The dealer said I should replace the axle because they did not think that the spindle was a bolt-on type and by process of elimination (I keep paying for stuff to be re-done until they replace everything) they felt that there must be a problem with th e axle. I have had the bearings done each year and have had a heat issue each year 3 years in a row. Bought 6 tires, replaced all the brakes, new backing plates, new bearings once on all and twice on this axle and the heat problem continues.

I feel like I want to do as much as I can myself but I am left with a few uncertainties.

Which spring should I get?

Should I replace all the shackles to match?

If I am going to need to replace the axle it would be better to do so while it is all apart.

How do I determine the correct bearings and order those?

I am going to check out the links you put up here and maybe talk to dexter. Maybe I should just tell the dealer to cancel the order. On the other hand if the spring they ordered is OK then they will both be here Tuesday and it would be great if I can get this fixed by October.

Thanks again.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:48 AM   #28
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While I am a novice at a lot of this stuff, one thought keeps popping up in my head...

Shouldn't Dan be looking at replacing the spring assemblies on BOTH sides of the coach? With one of them broken like that, would there not have been some exceptional stresses on the OTHER side?
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Old 09-11-2009, 07:08 AM   #29
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Hi Dan

I’ll type more later. H’mm wheels bearings been rebuilt each year… This is good new info.

“Before” you pull the brake drum on the hot wheel there are some things that can be checked to help led to a clue on the problem. Ideally you find the problem, then make sure you can correct it. It may be a new axle, but at least you know what, if not them you still do not know.

Do you have access to a dial indicator? That can help tell us the end play or lack of. There is a reason the heat was being created.

If no indicator then maybe can use your calipers and rig up something. Try to type more at lunch.

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Old 09-11-2009, 07:10 AM   #30
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Dan,
If it were me, I'd buy 4 new springs and u-bolts. Then you know all the springs are the same.
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:58 AM   #31
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Dan,

I agree with Mike, I'd replace all of them. I'd also do the Ez-Flex upgrade kit because they still have it on sale through Dexter (inventory reduction sale), so now it really costs the same as getting just the new shackle and bolt parts.

Also, I would definetly pull apart the bearings once again and inspect and repack them. I wouldn't chance after doing all that work to have a bearing failure just because it was damaged before.

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Old 09-11-2009, 12:14 PM   #32
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I was kind of starting to feel like I should also (replace all four springs) Are you guys referring to just the springs and hardware or the whole axle too. I'm just concerned that there is still a problem with this axle since despite the spring problem there has been a heat problem since we have had it. I just don't know what to do and this is sounding like $1500 easy and I just spent $600 re-sealing and treating the roof.

The dealer suggests I put in the one spring just to get it down there for them to look it all over which again sounds expensive.

Trying to find the middle of the road between cheaping out and considering this is about 18 years old and how much should I spend.
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Old 09-11-2009, 12:53 PM   #33
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I was just referring to the springs themselves and the new shackle links/bolts/equalizer. I know you'll need at least one new U-bolt for the axle, but I would replace all those too. If the one broke, I'd say there's probably a good chance you'll break another trying to get them off.

The Ez-flex kit is $149.67. That includes all new bolts, nuts, shackle links, bushings, etc. This should be your size: http://dexteraxle.com/inc/sdetail/28009

New U-bolts should be about $30 total (prices from e-trailer) http://www.etrailer.com/c-ub.htm

New leaf springs will probably be about $100-$125 total...http://www.etrailer.com/c-dels.htm

Should be able to do the job for under $360 when factoring in extra bearing seals, grease, and potential new bearings. Shipping may add some if you get from on online source, but it shouldn't be more than $100.

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Old 09-11-2009, 01:54 PM   #34
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And,

One other source to consider...

If there is a trailer dealer near you, they deal with these suspension and axle systems all the time. I don't mean an RV trailer dealer; I mean a shop that sells and services small trailers. That would include anything from a small single axle utility or snowmobile trailer up to the larger enclosed tandem axle car haulers. A tandem utility or car hauler trailer has exactly the same suspension, brake, and axle parts as do our TT's.

A long time ago, I discovered that these trailer shops carry all the same parts as the RV dealers, but at more reasonable prices. And their shop rates are usually lower, too.

They usually carry a full line of receivers, hitches, tow bars, etc. and at lower prices than RV places. Reese, Valley, Draw-Tite, etc. are the type of brands they carry.

Just something to consider.
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Old 09-11-2009, 06:51 PM   #35
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Thanks for posting those links Sunline Fan and JohnB. I was expecting this to be a lot more since the dealer's price was $100 per spring which is approx 3 to 4 times the cost on-line. I also was not confident that what they were getting was correct so I canceled my order.

I do think the 4 new springs is the way to go especially if they can be had for under $40 each. I'm assuming you all have had success ordering at the on-line places and the quality was OK so I intend to measure things up this weekend. After taking one apart I feel I can do it.

Also plan to replace all 8 U Bolts. Just seems like the way to go.

JohnB, I called Dexter as one of your suggestions and they were very helpful. Spent a half hour on the phone helping me figure out some things. Gave me suggestions to determine if the bearings are the wrong ones and some other great info. Nothing but good things to say about them.

My last big challenge will be deciding if the whole axle needs to change but I will take their reccomendations and see what I can see.

The easy flex thing looks interesting. Forgot who suggested that. Can someone give me the readers digest version of what that does for me. Obviously the new hardware is a good thing and the upgraded shackles but is there more to it than that?

Am I really going to need a torque wrench to complete this projest. One tool I do not have. Maybe I cold borrow one but most that have them don't want to loan them. Gotten by without one all these years but haven't takin' apart a motor since high school shop class. I certainly understand tightening things evenly like when you go to tighten up all those U bolts and stuff but maybe not good enough??

Steve, thanks. My buddy had the same idea and called me with the name of a place that does springs and trailer stuff only. Suggested they would know about anything to do with my problem. May talk to them too.

Going to spend the rainy weekend re-reading everyone's posts and check out the websites. Trying to educate myself . Thanks!
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Old 09-11-2009, 10:15 PM   #36
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Dan

A lot of activity here today. Great help by all.

It sounds like you now feel this is within your abilities. Good for you. We can help and the pic’s really go a long way. If you where closer, I would come over and help you work thru what to get on order and check that axle. But we can do here too.

It sounds like you need the most help now sorting out what to get and what it is you have. Well lets start with the springs. I agree, all 4 springs need to be the same and there are great questions around the mixed bag you have. So 4 new springs packs with all new U bolts is a wise choice. I would do this if I was doing it too.

Now what springs to get?? Well here see if this helps. While I have never bought from these folks they do have a nice chart of spring thickness and pound force. As well as spring dimensions. As stated before, spring thickness, number of leafs and the length between the eye drive the force ratings. The 4 pack leaf set can be thinner to get the same force as a thicker 3 pack set by this chart. And longer springs get weaker with the same thickness.

http://www.truckspring.com/double-eye_563.html

Look at this pic off my T2499. That is a 7,000# GVWR camper with 2, 3,500# axles and a GAWR of 3,500# each. There is only 3 leafs. The leafs are 0.360 each and they line up with that chart as being 1,750# rated each.


My big camper is setup on 4 leafs of 0.360 each and they are 2,500# springs. Matches with 5,000# GAWR


While the thickness and force ratings on that chart fit my 2 camper springs, the eye to eye and H height dim (free open) does not. And eye to eye length also affect the force. Here is where I do believe Sunline did there special wheel spacing thing. I have no idea what year they started it on but my 2004 T310 is not on the standard tandem axle centers due the spring length. So for me I will have to call a spring shop and would start with the either a local one or the Buds Spring in Lancaster PA that another Sunline person passed the tip along to me. You may or may not be in that case with your 1992. Measure yours up and let see what you have.

You have a mixed bag of springs on there now. And in the chart there are a few sizes that I think have 2 different thickness in the smaller sizes in the same stack. If you measure up your 3 leaf ones, compare to the chart and the 4 leaf ones for thickness we may be able to back into what you have as far as force ratings. NOTE: spring length also affects the ratings. If none of them line up, then a spring shop is for sure needed.

Now the next is, what size should I put on? Here you may have a choice. It would be good to know what mixed bag you now have and also your TT frame width. Is it 4” channel iron? Or 5?” You may be able to go up 1 spring size if everything else lines up since you are buying all new springs.

We need to know what axle rating you have. Did you find a number on the alum axle tag? And are they Dexter axles? The cast steel drop spindle could have a cast in Dexter set of words on the drop portion of the axle tube. You have the long main tube then an offset up into the wheel area. On the side of that offset on mine Dexters name is cast in. If they are 3500# axle tubes, that that box is checked. You know you have tires good for 1,760 each. So if the frame and axle line up you any be able to go with 1,400 # springs or 1,375#'s in place of the original 1,250# springs. The spring is still the weak link but it bought you a little more margin. It would be like Steve’s setup on his 99 Sunline. There they gave another 500# more GVWR. You do not want to get too carried away going bigger as if way too stiff, then the TT will bounce real bad if it is not heavy enough.

Check it out and report back.

Now the bearings. They are fairly straight forward. In the ends of the bearing cones are numbers stamped on the bearing.
EDIT: 9-12-09 to clarify

Then measure the ID of the cup race bore in the brake drum. This is actally the OD of the race as well. And measure the OD of the shaft of the axle in both the inner and outer bearings.

Then measure the axle shaft seal diameter and the seal bore in the brake drum to gain a seal OD.


They sell bearing kits for these TT setups. Has both bearing sets and a seal all in a kit. Or they sell them in parts. Heads up is get the seal with the garter spring that they call a double lip seal. Skip the single lip.

See here:http://shop.easternmarine.com/index....categoryID=188


Here is a Dexter parts list. Again assuming you have Dexter.
http://dexteraxle.com/i/u/1080235/f/...0-3500_lbs.pdf

See page 22 of the catalog as it lists the standard spring setups. However those axle centers do not match either of my 2 Sunlines because of the shorter spring Sunlines used once again.

See page 24 for a blowup of the bearing and seals. You can actually get the bearings and seals at a local Napa or other auto parts store. OR on line at E trailer or Eastern Marine.

Dexter is nice enough to even give you cross references to other brands of seals and bearings as they do not make them. Select what you want to look for. See there site here http://www.dexteraxle.com/resource_library

And here for part numbers. select what you want to look for http://www.dexteraxle.com/products___literature Look under the 3500# axle and 10” brakes.

Now to the hot bearing and is the axle OK. This is going to take some trouble shooting. I’m curious what Dexter told you to check. This is how I would start the approach and the findings along the way I’m sure would alter this.

First, spin the drum and observe the machined surface where the wheel bolts on. Does it wobble? Put something hard fixed against it and then spin. An indicator is great but any fixed object, like a combination square scale clamped to the frame. If you can see an air gap coming and going against that machined surface, well the wheel is then wobbling in and out too. Problem 1.

Before pulling the hot drum, take off grease cap, use a dial indicator between the axle and the drum and check the end play. Is there any and how much? If you have no indicator, put your finger between the bearing and the drum and wiggle the drum in and out. If there is play, you can feel it between the bearing and the drum. Estimate or use a feeler gage to attempt to measure it. You can also use that square clamped to the frame up against the machined wheel surface and check to end play. use feeler gage in that space.

Then take out the cotter pin or axle nut keeper with special care to not move the nut. How loose or tight is that nut is the question? The setting procedure is to tighten the nut to about 50 ft lb., spin the drum, hold the drum then back off the nut and apply finger tight while never moving the drum, put locking pin in. Basically they are going for no end play to only a few thousands, maybe 0.002" . They are not preloading the bearings. By back tracking what the dealer did, if I can turn the nut in very much, (count the hex flights of turn) they may have it too loose. End play will tell too. If it is cranked on, it was too tight.

OK then take the nut off and pull the drum. Make sure the brake is not all messed up and dragging the drum.

Pull the grease seal out and clean up all the grease out of the bearings. If there is a race miss match (cup to cone) it may have left heat traces in the race or bearing. Look at the wear pattern and look for bluing of the steel. They may have put new bearings in and not changed the races. Or they did not have the race (cup) seated down square.

Or you have a messed up brake drum not bored right if the bearings looks totally perfect which I doubt. Something should be left over from that high heat. If we think the drum is bored wrong, highly unlikely but not impossible, an indicator check can confirm that too.

Now the axles. First off if the axle end is bent, did it mess up the 2 bearing shaft areas? See here:


You can see the 3 machined diameters, outer bearing, inner bearing and the seal riding surface. In order for the hub to run hot because of a bent axle stub between the bearings, the 2 bearings surfaces are not running true to each other.

To check for a bent stub making the bearings run hot, ideally setup an indicator on 1 bearing surface and rotate it around indicating off the other bearing surface. It should run dead true. You would need a V block or make up something to hold the indicator to swing it.

Or you project the 2 surfaces and measure. Sort of like this. This was for a bent axle tube but can be done for an axle stub too


By firmly holding a known straight edge on one surface, project it to the next. Measure the gap. Then rotate 90 degrees and do it again in 4 locations. Adn repeat to get the same numbers twice. The indicator is better but this will get you close if you have the right things to work with. I cannot figure out how a stub would bend between the bearings to make the bearing run hot. But anything is possible.

To actually check for a bent axle that caused tire wear, That is a different setup but right now you are trying to figure out the hot wheel. I suspect it is the bearing setup and hopefully heat traces (blueing) are left to tell the tale. If you can get me the tire thread wear we can see if you even have traces of alignment issues.

Take lots of pics. Your last ones really sparked up the conversation here and helpd us greatly see what you are talking about.

We can help you check part numbers as needed as a sounding board.

The EZ flex, the rubber center equalizer is an upgrade over the solid equalizer. When you drop in a pot hole, that massive hard hit into the springs and camper is damped out by the rubber shock absorbing equalizer verses bouncing into the TT. It is not like gas shock absorbers, they do different things like dampen down the entire sine wave of the TT and suspension going up and down. At least that how I understand it to help.

I probably have you swimming in info again. Once you get the pile of parts sorted out that you want to show up, we need to talk about installing the new springs and adjusting for wheel alignment. I know I typed a lot here, but it really is not that bad to do. Doing this on the screen in type here takes longer then I could of checked it for you...

Good luck

John
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Old 09-12-2009, 07:28 AM   #37
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Dan

I fixed a few things in my last post. Most word messeup's but I also doctored up in blue how to measure the bearings and seal. The brain can spit out words faster then the fingers and type and they get gumbled up some times.... Sorry

Good luck today. Let us know how it goes.

John
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Old 09-12-2009, 09:52 AM   #38
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John,

Your picture of checking for a bent axle stub reminded me of another thread we had not too long ago where someone was concerned that there was a rough spot on the stub that was causing his problems. It took quite a bit of back and forth posting to figure out what he was referring to.

So, I borrowed a portion of your pic and marked the area in question with a yellow box to show Dan. It shows both conditions described below so it's a perfect one for this.


Dan, if you open up your hubs, and the portion of the stub that I marked is partly machined smooth and partly rough - maybe looks like a sandy surface - you can safely ignore it. That portion of the stub is a dead space between the inner and outer bearing seats. Nothing touches it except grease. The reason part of it is machined is this:

The axle stub starts life as a sand casting which is then forged and machined to spec. The machining on that portion of the stub is to keep that area smaller than a specific dimension so that the inner bearings will pass over it freely when the hub is reinstalled. Castings aren't precise so that area will occasionally come out of the mold slightly larger than it should be so they machine back to spec. The rest of the stub is intentionally cast much larger than spec. so there is enough material to machine back to proper tolerances.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:50 PM   #39
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Thanks Steve, My axle spindle looks just like that, really rough in a spot. Not sure what I am looking for. Have some pix I hope helps. There is some discoloration.

John, What Dexter told me was that they suspected based on what I told them that there may have been an incorrect bearing installed at some point and of course once it's in then the next guy takes the number off the bad one and it keeps going. He said he was not too happy to hear me say the dealer had not changed the race, only inspected it. He told me to get the info off the axle and match it up to the proper bearing to see if they are wrong. He also told me about the blueing and such.
I am a little unclear about the race. There is an inner and outer race?

I am wondering if the tapered piece I still see in the drum that looks machines is in fact actually the outer race? If so, how do I get it out without damaging the machined surface of the drum.

Take a look at the pictures. I don't see anything except some discoloring. There was still grease that looked red in the bearing which surprised me based on how much is all over the rim. Didn't really smell burnt to me either.

Got a pic of both springs to see just for fun and some numbers I will put below.

I was asking before about the torque wrench. Do you think I can finish this job without it or do I need to get one somehow.?

The U bolt with the broken nut. Well, it was worse than that. Nut wasn't broken, just missing. Whoever did that job decided it was good enough with one nut. Must have over tightened the other side and said the heck with it. You could see the U bolt was in tact and apered at the end as it should be. Not even stripped out. That was not the dealer's work where I have been going.

Numbers:
I measured tread on all 4 tires. Biggest swing side to side was about .025 so that semed pretty good. The tire with the on the wheel that had been so hot was actually .050 thicker and then I remembered that it was the tire that blew out last year and had to be replaced so it was a year newer. All the tread looks good to me.

Dexter Axle SLR 12.8 2500lb. max. cap. Excl Rims and tires Ser. No. C1048751.

The frame is 2" wide

Front Left Spring (broken one) 3 leaf: Leaf thickness is approx .330.
25 3/8" eye to eye. and about 3" center to eye center.

Front Right Spring 4 leaf: Leaf thickness approx .405 25 3/8" eye to eye and about 3.25" center to the eye center.

Hanger on the frame is about 29 1/2" eye to eye.

Center triangle piece spacing for the 2 springs is approx. 5.75"

Givenn the axles are rated for 2500 and the GVWR is 5K do the springs need to be 1250's or do you think it would be OK to go up one size as you had mentioned in your earlier post. Or is that only OK if the frame had been beefier?

Rain has been on and off so going to stay in now. Pix below









Can see numbers on the inner bearing only. Don't see any numbers on the outer. The inner is an SK (Made in China...figures) Looks like L68149







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Old 09-12-2009, 04:49 PM   #40
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Dan,

Are your brakes 10"x1.50" or 10"x2.25"? In either case, the outer bearing is the same: Industry Part No. L44610/L44649.

The 10"x1.50" brakes need the LM67010/LM67048 Inner Bearings while the 10"x2.25" brakes take the L68111/L68149 Inner Bearings. You mentioned the L68149 visible on the inner bearing so I am hoping you've got the 2.25" brakes.

(Dexter part numbers are to be found on the bearing chart that JohnB referenced above.)

One other question: How tall is the C-channel that makes up the main frame rails and A-frame of the trailer?

My '99 has 4" C-channel throughout so I am suspecting yours is the same. If so, it appears that all Sunline did to gain 500# of GVWR by '99 was to use larger capacity axles (and possibly springs.) Starting with the SR models in the late 90's and expanding to the Lite's in the early '00's, they moved to 5" to 8" frames depending on the weight category of the trailer. And they went to taller A-frames, too.

The torque wrench is going to be important for reinstalling the u-bolts on the spring packs and the bolts on the spring hangers and shackles. Less so for the tightening procedure on the hubs. The Dexter manual actually gives a method to approximate the 50# of torque required there without a torque wrench.

If you have not done so already, I suggest you go to http://dexteraxle.com/products___literature and click on the dropdown button for 600-8K capacities in the Trailer Axles (Service Information). The very first choice on the list is Complete Service Manual. That will give you the whole Dexter service manual for brakes and axles.
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