Help!! No 110 in Trailer

[Boomer485]

For some reason my 110 in the trailer went away! I have a 33ft Sunline Solaris. I love it, and I am winter "Camping" in Minnesota with it. For some reason today the 110 in the Trailer just quit working. I am worried about keeping the battery charged.

Yes the source is good. I checked the circuit breaker, put a meter on the power source, all is good.

But nothing in the trailer.

I think there is a relay that went bad. No idea where it is. I looked in the fuse panel by the floor by the bathroom. I didn't see one. When I bought the trailer from the dealership they said they replaced the relay (?). I guess it wore out. 1). NOT sure where it is located. 2). Not sure where to get one.
3). Not much information on the old part other than 12V JO5 30A. I cannot quite make out the manufacturer Short Storm or something like that.

Any ideas out there? Help would be DEEPLY appreciated.

Thanks,
Bruce

[JohnB]

Hi Bruce,

We can help, but we some help from your first. We need to know at least year and model camper you have.

Then, what brand power converter setup do you have and where are the 120 VAC breakers in your setup (inside the camper)?, in the power converter box or a seperate circuit breaker box? Any kind of pictures of the setup really helps so we know what you have. Sunline changed the power distribution systems often as the years and advancements in power converters went by. We and you also, may not know if a prior owner may have changed something from when it came from Sunline unless we can see it.

That aside, unless you have a 1970 or maybe into the mid 80's, there is no relay in the 120 VAC incoming power. That word, relay, is a contactor that has an electromagnet coil that when energized, switches higher power or controls devices other then the really old campers, yours should not have one in the 120 VAC. Most of the newer campers, and even the semi older ones, the 30 amp shore line cable comes into a breaker box that is many times part of the power converter. The newer campers have a main 30 amp breaker that the shore line cord attaches to and then several smaller breakers for branch circuits.

On the semi older campers, they may have a 2 breaker box separate from the power converter, no main breaker and both breakers are hot from the shore line cord.

Have you located the heavy 30 amp incoming shore line cord inside the camper and then what does it attach too? That is the place to start. If the source has power, checked by your meter, then the other end of that cable in the camper should have power too and you can hunt from there where the breakdown is.

Hope this helps.

Thanks

John

PS. We are "assuming" your camper does not have a prior owner installed solar setup or a generator setup that can actually use a transfer switch, which is a relay. Does it have either? If your does, that transfer switch could kill all 120 VAC power in the camper. But I'll stop there until we know what it is you have.

[mainah]

There are breakers in you electrical panel (generally a stand alone gray box). Some had a 30 amp other just a 15 and 20. The 30 amp would be for the incoming power the 15 for outlets the 20 for AC. The 30 could be tripped that will shut the entire system down. So have you tried different outlets in the camper? Any outlet near water will be a GFI or have a GFI breaker they may need to be reset. The power cord goes no where else than the breaker box. The panel box was made for 240/120 volt service but on 120 there was a wire in the box that jumper to the other side to provide 120 to all 4 breaker slots. Loose, burnt? There is lethal voltage there so if you are not comfortable with that then it's best to leave it alone. There are no relays supplied 120 power other than one inside older converters and it had nothing to do with outlets. If you have lost only lights , fan or furnace then yes that could be a converter issue usually the option was to replace the converter not the relay inside. Can you check battery voltage? If the converter is not working you are going to get cold in MN after awhile if that is the case go buy a small charger connect it to the battery and plug it into the closest outlet.

[Boomer485]

Thanks for replying. Sorry for not providing the proper data. My bad. Kind of frazzled as it is like 15 degrees out there. :0)

The unit is a 2003 T2653 Solaris. I am attaching a couple of pictures to help with the issue.

One additional thing, when I purchased the trailer 3 years ago, evidently there was a circuit breaker blown that prevented the converter from working, and the 110 as well. I am wondering if that is the problem again. I have attached a picture of the part that was replaced by the dealer. A Short Stop 12V J05 30A. Why did I keep it? Who knows. But as much as I hate to admit it, I have no idea where it goes. I did take both covers of the converter and couldn't see anything like it. Worst time ever for something to fail. January, colder than heck, at night. Sigh.

[Boomer485]

Mainah, Between the living room area and the bathroom in the hallway is what I believe is the converter. There are a number of circuit breakers and automobile type fuses. The breakers are all on, appear to be functional. None of the fuses are blown. The furnace does seem to be working, at a lower than normal speed. I did set the temperature to 50 to preserve the battery as much as possible. Good suggestion, I will connect a battery charger to the battery. None of the 110 GFCI outlets appear to be working. The small green light on all are out. All of the bulbs in the ceiling fixture are working ( I replaced them all with LED's when I bought the trailer.) I know the 30 Amp 110 from the building to the trailer is fine. The big cable is connected to the outlet. A meter at the outlet shows it is fine. In a different post I included a picture of a circuit breaker the dealer replaced. He thought maybe the converter was shot, but by replacing that breaker everything worked. For some reason, I kept the old one and will replace it, but have NO idea where it goes. Any idea? Thanks, Bruce

[JohnB]

Hi Bruce,

No worries, we can understand the frazzled... just it's hard to know what you have short of a year and model. For the future consider adding the camper year and model to your signature in your user CP panel area. More on that later if you need help.

OK now we can help better. Your 2003 camper is new enough we can better hone in on things.

First, to not confuse things, that short stop item you have is a 30 amp, 12 volt DC auto reset circuit breaker. In your 2003 model, they can be used in the 7 wire cable from the truck junction box to limit the battery current to 30 amps between the battery and the converter. On your floor plan, a front kitchen model, look under the kitchen sink cabinet down on the floor for a little wooden box and cover on top. That would be the junction box that joins the 7 wire cable from the truck to the camper 12 volt DC system and the camper battery. Sunline either used a 30 amp auto reset circuit breaker in the converter power line to the battery or a 30 amp fuse. The 2003 models most likely made it to the breaker as it was then standard on the 2004 to 2007 models. A year 2000 camper most likely had the fuse.

BUT, that auto reset circuit breaker does not affect the 120 VAC. Since you have 12 volt ceiling lights, whatever is in the wood junction box under the sink is working.

Now that we know you have a circuit breaker housing with a power converter combo, lets try the easy fix first.

As mainah said, if this is above your comfort level, don't do it. There is enough 120 VAC power in that converter to do bodily harm.

Go outside and pull the shore line cord or outside breaker to kill all incoming 120 vac power in the camper. Then inside the power converter, the Centurion unit, look for the main 30 amp circuit breaker. The breaker may have wiggled loose from the main bus bar behind it that powers up the rest of the circuit breakers. The main shore line power cord comes in and attaches the black wire to the 30 amp breaker and then that breaker feeds the power to the buss bar behind it and then all other 120 ac breakers have power.

NOTE! the 12 VDC power is still live in the power converter if the battery is hooked up. Take care! Unhook the battery as needed. A screwdriver in the wrong place on 12 volts DC can turn into a welding rod if the wrong terminals are touched. Or blow your last 30 amp fuse you had.

Towing and bumps sometimes wiggles the breakers loose. Then the slightest wiggle in the camper and the breaker will not make contact with the buss bar and the power goes out. You may have to take the metal cover off the converter OR just push the breaker back in with the cover on. I have an issue on my 2004 T2475 were the microwave breaker wiggles loose. I found this out last fall. I just had to push it back in and all came alive on the microwave. My son said he had that before too. I will have to sort out the issue this spring.

If that fixes the main power to come into the camper, then go look and makes sure the kitchen and the bathroom GFIC's are reset.

If that does not do it, post some pics of the breakers in the power converter. ideally with the metal cover off. We can better see what you are into then. I have a brief memory of the Centurion converters and they changed some over the years. The 2004's went to American Enterprises power converters

Hope this helps

John

[mainah]

The little box is a 12 volt auto reset breaker. Your DC stuff works because the battery is powering it this probably won't last too long. Does the panel box have a 30 amp standard house type circuit breaker in it? Not all campers did if it does cycle it (off on). Beyond that it will require removing the panel cover exposing all of the high voltage wiring. There are two power systems in a camper one is 12 volts DC the other is 120 volts AC, your converter (DC) is powered by the 120 volt system nothing more. It is what chargers the battery and lights the lights there is no connection to the outlets. Generally 120 volt wiring stuff (12 volt DC too) do not fail unless it has A been tinkered or B damaged some how such as driving off the the power line still connected. An AC circuit breaker does not care what direction the power flows in so what they did with the 30 amp breaker is wire it backwards instead of receiving power it supplies power to the other breakers in the panel box so the power from the cord goes directly to the breaker so turning it off kills power to the other breakers. It is the key to your outlet /converter power it has to go through it first. This is where it become dangerous (little bit of knowledge thing) because of the lethal voltage involved (arcs and sparks). The key is what is the power from the cord? That would be checked right at the 30 amp breaker.

[Boomer485]

Attached are the requested pictures of the converter. I did take the cover off.

Now here is the oddity. When I left last night the converter was NOT running. The cooling fans were off. None of the GFCI were functioning. The Microwave had no power. Again, I checked the outlet I plug the big power cable in, and it was hot. We installed a special outlet for the trailer to use where I park it so I had proper voltage, etc.

The breaker on the box the outlet is a 30 Amp breaker as suggested in the document I used to have it installed. Copy is attached.

So at this point I have done nothing to the system. Just shocked that it seems to have self repaired (right) and appears to be working (amazing). But I am waiting for the next shoe to fall.

I would rather be proactive the re-active. Suggestions?

As it is Eight, yes 8 degree's out side I do want to stay on top of this.

Despite the challenges, I do love my Sunny!

[mainah]

What you have there is what is called "tandem" breakers they are two breakers taking up one space. The 30 amp is the main feed, there is a heavy black wire it is from the power cord.The green wire at the very bottom on the ground buss is the ground from the power cord. The white wire far left on the neutral buss is the neutral from the power cord. There does not seem to be any burning at any of the connections that is good. In order to check the 30 amp plugin the power cord would have to be removed so at this point I'm thinking there maybe an issue at the plug in outlet as once it was reinstalled you had power once again.

[JohnB]

Since your power came back on it's own, it leaves a few possible issues. Maybe more, but these come to mind.

1. Is the RV cord plug "tight" in the new outlet you installed? It needs to be tight to make a good connection. unplugging and replugging can make a loose one work once in a while.

2. The 30/20 amp dual breaker internals in the camper is having issues. I would think it has low odds of being an issue, but not beyond impossible.

3. Loose wiring connections in the camper. It has been known to happen the screws loosen in the electrical panel from towing bouncing over time, years worth. Take all power off the camper 120 VAC and 12 VDC, and check the tightness of all screws, especially the one where the 30 amp shore line cord black and white wires connect to the breaker and the white neutral bus bar.

Odds are favorable you have a loose connection somewhere either at the incoming power outlet all the way to the main bus bar behind the camper dual 30/20 amp breaker and anything in between those points. Did you check if the 30/20 amp breaker in the camper was pushed in tight to it's holding place?

Hope this helps and let us know what you find out.

John

[mainah]

Could you post a picture of the outlet that was installed for the camper? To be honest anything less than a TT 30 R receptacle would be suspect In order to provide a good connection. If there are adapters involved they are suspect also. For temporary use they are OK but if you are living in a camper in the winter then it really needs to be connected to a dedicated 30 amp outlet. They are special outlets nothing else is like them for good reason it is designed to only be used on 120 volts and the plug is configured for that type outlet. It looks like something you might find on a dryer but it will not fit. I see no effects of heating on the breaker or neutral connections but it would not hurt to check them.

[Boomer485]

Hi,


Well so far so good. I will post a picture of the new outlet that was installed for the camper. It was installed as per the instructions I posted previously. Yes, that is the type of outlet I purchased for the install. In spring, providing we all make it, I think I am going to purchase a new cord for the trailer. My wife is of the opinion we should put in a new power converter as well.



I was looking at this unit: PD 4135 35 Amp Power Center


I really thank you guys for the interest and help.



One of the things I did do was clean the prongs on the power cord and reconnect it. I also, without malice, took my fist to make sure it was seated properly.



Attached are the pictures of the box under the sink, and I did replace that breaker as well. Just in case. I do have a small battery charger on the battery and I am keeping an eye on that. I was planning on replacing the battery in the spring any way. So just need to nurse her along for a short time, then put her in storage until April. Fingers are crossed.



OF course it never rains but it pours. Now the fan on my furnace sounds like it is going to come out of the dam thing. That will be a project for tomorrow. I ran another 110 power cord to the trailer and I am running two good quality space heaters in the interim. I turned the furnace off, less the fan join me on the couch.



Again, thank you so much for the feedback and help. This is an awesome group.

[mainah]

Well the converter will have zero effect on your outlets.

[JohnB]

The progressive dynamics converter is a good one. They give good service and have a desulfation mode. It will make your battery last longer. It is a good upgrade, for the sake of upgrading, but as was said, it will not correct your 120 vac issue.

You had mentioned that you had a small charger on the battery, this by itself is OK. Just mentioning in case you did not know, ideally do not have the standalone battery charger powered and up hooked to the battery at the same time the camper power converter is powered up and connected to the battery. Both being on at the same time may have issues with confusing the charging circuit on either one of them. The charger being on and the camper 120 vac power being off, but hooked to the battery is not an issue. Just both of them powered up and connected to the battery is the issue.

If you need to, you can run the camper off the power converter for 12 vdc with the battery unhooked. Just make sure the positive battery cable is not touching any metal or has a chance to touch the camper metal.

Thanks for reporting back.

John

[mainah]

Your converter is powered by 120 volts no power no functioning converter. John is correct the converter voltage tracks so supplying voltage at the same time with another charger will most likely confuse the issue. Every bit of wiring you can touch without removing covers is 12 volts DC supplied by the converter output and the battery every other wire is 120 volt supplied by the mains. If you are plugged into a real RV outlet smacking the back of the plug with your hand is a good ideal the connectors inside are a pretty tight fit.