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Old 10-20-2007, 04:14 PM   #1
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donreitz
Electrical Gremlins

I'm going to display my ignorance here, but what the heck. After we purchased our Silverado last year we found out that the the trailer battery didn't charge when the truck was connected via the 7 pin plug, something our Tahoes and Suburbans had always done.

After seeking advice at RV.net I learned that we needed to add a 40 amp fuse to the "Stud 1" location on the truck's fuse panel. I did this but still failed to get any juice from the truck to the trailer battery.

As a result I checked the 30 amp fuse in the box located right behind the battery box on my 2499 and found it blown. I assume this has something to do with my problem. I've done nothing to the electrical system other than plugging and unplugging the 7 pin plug to explain the blown fuse.

Here's the question: Is the fact that there's a 40 amp fuse in the truck's "Stud 1" location the reason the 30 amp trailer fuse blew? Would it make sense to replace the 40 amp fuse with a 30 amp one? If not, can anyone offer an explanation of why I'm having a problem with using my truck as a battery charger.

Any advice is appreciated.
Don
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:33 PM   #2
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Hi Don,
What year is your Siverado? Mine is a 2007 Silverado and I haven't had any trouble recharging my trailer aux battery. Have you tried charging since you replaced the 30 amp fuse in the trailer?

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Old 10-20-2007, 10:22 PM   #3
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Old 10-22-2007, 06:34 AM   #4
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Yep. "06 it is. I won't try charging the battery until I know what's going on. Obviously something mysterious is happening. I don't know if this is strictly an '06 situation or not, but when I raised the question on RV.net they knew immediately what the problem was. In my Silverado the "Stud 1" fuse position was fitted with a dummy fuse. The solution was to replace the dummy with a 40 amp fuse. The 40 amp rating was just a suggestion. According to the instructions (on the underside of the fuse box lid), the actual rating can vary with application.

My question is, given the 30 amp rating of the trailer fuse and given that it blew for no obvious reason, should the truck's "Stud 1" fuse be rated 30 amps as well? I'm going on the assumption here that the trailer circuit protected by the 30 amp fuse is connected to the truck's 40 amp charging circuit (I'm obviously not an electrical expert).

Thanks,
Don
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Old 10-22-2007, 02:06 PM   #5
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Given: Truck Battery 40 amp fuse plugs 30 amp fuse trailer system. If the trailer system draws over 30 amps the trailer fuse will blow first. That being said if you replace the truck fuse with a 30 amp, and the trailer is still drawing over 30 amps it will be a toss up which one blows first.

Several things need to be considered:
What size is the wire between the fuse block and the truck connector?
#10 = 30 amp max
#8 = 40 amp max
What should the maximum draw on the trailer be?
Is there a problem causing a 30amp + draw?
What size is the wire on the trailer? (Same fuse sizing as above)

The wire size should determine the max fuse size, and the expected amp draw should determine the wire size.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-22-2007, 11:44 PM   #6
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Re: Electrical Gremlins

Quote:
Originally Posted by donreitz

After seeking advice at RV.net I learned that we needed to add a 40 amp fuse to the "Stud 1" location on the truck's fuse panel. I did this but still failed to get any juice from the truck to the trailer battery.

As a result I checked the 30 amp fuse in the box located right behind the battery box on my 2499 and found it blown. I assume this has something to do with my problem. I've done nothing to the electrical system other than plugging and unplugging the 7 pin plug to explain the blown fuse.

Here's the question: Is the fact that there's a 40 amp fuse in the truck's "Stud 1" location the reason the 30 amp trailer fuse blew? Would it make sense to replace the 40 amp fuse with a 30 amp one? If not, can anyone offer an explanation of why I'm having a problem with using my truck as a battery charger.

Any advice is appreciated.
Don
Don

Something does not add up here, yet.

First I did agree with MACK, if you only have 10 gage wire do not put a 40 amp in stud 1.

Blowing a 30 amp fuse in the T2499 is something we have to figure out what went wrong. You should not be blowing that fuse just plain charging from the truck.

What year is your T2499?

I'll have to do some digging but the 7 wire GM's receptacle are very likley 10 gage on the actual brake power but I do not recall a 2nd one being that big. Might be wrong but, Iíll have to check and report back.

Think back, blowing a 30 amp fuse with a dead short is not that hard and sparks will fly, tripping one actually drawing over 30 amps is a lot of power.

What else is going on in your camper and what leads you to believe the TV tripped it?

John
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Old 10-23-2007, 06:34 AM   #7
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John, my 2499 is an '05. I realized I hadn't added the year in my signature so I fixed it. As I mentioned earlier, the 40 amp suggestion was just that--a suggestion from RV.net. If it needs to be less, I'll swap the fuse out no problem.

Your suggestion that charging from the truck shouldn't blow the 30 amp trailer fuse makes intuitive sense. I only checked that fuse recently so I'm wondering if perhaps the fuse blew before I added the 40 amp truck fuse. We haven't done much dry camping this year so the fact that the truck wasn't charging the trailer battery wouldn't have been noticed (the battery charges fine on shore power). I attach an inverter to the trailer battery to charge my laptop and camera battery when in remote locations and one time last year caused a few sparks to fly with the alligator clamps. Perhaps I blew the fuse then and hadn't noticed it until now.

I appreciate everyone's patience with this.
Don
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Old 10-23-2007, 08:56 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donreitz
John, my 2499 is an '05. I realized I hadn't added the year in my signature so I fixed it. As I mentioned earlier, the 40 amp suggestion was just that--a suggestion from RV.net. If it needs to be less, I'll swap the fuse out no problem.

Your suggestion that charging from the truck shouldn't blow the 30 amp trailer fuse makes intuitive sense. I only checked that fuse recently so I'm wondering if perhaps the fuse blew before I added the 40 amp truck fuse. We haven't done much dry camping this year so the fact that the truck wasn't charging the trailer battery wouldn't have been noticed (the battery charges fine on shore power). I attach an inverter to the trailer battery to charge my laptop and camera battery when in remote locations and one time last year caused a few sparks to fly with the alligator clamps. Perhaps I blew the fuse then and hadn't noticed it until now.

I appreciate everyone's patience with this.
Don
Don

I have an 2004 T2499 and I have been inside that black plastic junction box behind the battery on the frame of the camper next to the battery disconnect switch. Inside there is a 30 amp fuse and if memory serves me it is in series with the actual battery hot lead.

This Sunline wiring diag I received from Sunline on my TT, shows that 30 amp fuse inline with the battery feed to the inside of the camper.

http://www.sunlineclub.com/docs/2499wiring.pdf

Now what I do not remember is how the 7 wire pig tail ties in. Before the fuse or after it on the way to the battery?? And Sunline did not give me a wiring diag. on that. So I would have to take off that cover and look. Unless you have a pic of the inside of it?

Knowing where the 7 wire is tied in could give a clue if the TV or the TT took out that 30 amp fuse. You said the battery charges fine on shore power, Was this even when the fuse was blown? Another clue.

Your inverter sparking on the battery terminals, that spark is direct on the battery, that sparking power never went thru the fuse if you clipped onto the battery posts. So I do not think the alligator clips did your fuse in. So your fuse blown is still a mystery.

I did look up the Bargman 7 wire harness that I ďthinkĒ is used on your TT. http://www.bargman.com/Wire/PDF/Ceq-...4-05-2006f.pdf As it is on mine. The black and white lead are only 10 ga. So even if the truck has larger wire, which I doubt, I still would say change out the 40 stud 1 fuse to a 30. The 7 wire Bargman canít take the 40 amps.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 10-24-2007, 06:06 AM   #9
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donreitz
John:
The battery has always charged on shore power perfectly well, blown fuse or not. Yes, the trailer uses a Bargman plug. When I get back to town I'll swap out the truck 40 amp fuse for a 30 amp one and then hook up everything to see if the truck charges the trailer battery now.

What this tells me is I better get more familiar with my electrical system.
Thanks for all the help.
Don
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Old 10-24-2007, 09:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donreitz
John:
The battery has always charged on shore power perfectly well, blown fuse or not. Yes, the trailer uses a Bargman plug. When I get back to town I'll swap out the truck 40 amp fuse for a 30 amp one and then hook up everything to see if the truck charges the trailer battery now.

What this tells me is I better get more familiar with my electrical system.
Thanks for all the help.
Don
Don,

In looking over the T-2499 wiring diagram available on the files section here, and looking at the wiring diagram for my '99 T-2453, one thing is real clear. That 30 amp inline fuse next to the battery connects the battery to everything in the trailer (except the break-away circuit), including the onboard convertor which charges your battery. If that fuse is blown, there is no way that the battery can be charged via shore power unless there is another circuit connected to the battery that is circumventing that fuse.

The only other circuit which should be connected directly to the battery is the break-away switch. This does not go through the 30 amp fuse, and is connected only to the battery, ground, and the trailer brakes.

It is possible that there may be a cross-connection in your rig that is moving 12vdc around that blown fuse to the battery, allowing it to charge even though the fuse is blown. If so, that is probably not a good thing.

I can tell you that on my '99, the Bargman connector is wired to the trailer downstream from the 30 amp fuse. I found out the hard way by shorting out the +12vdc line at the vehicle connector that it will nicely kill that fuse.

A lot of this basic wiring is standard to all Sunlines (and probably other manufacturers.) It does not vary from model to model or from year to year. They may use newer and better external fuse blocks now out on the A-frame instead of in a wooden box on the floor of the rig, but the principle and basic circuitry really is the same.
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Old 10-26-2007, 06:01 AM   #11
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Hmmm. I don't know what to say other than my trailer battery spent two weeks in Utah charging fine by shore power and not charging through the truck. I know this for a fact as the battery ran out of juice as we moved between two dry camp locations (that is, the battery failed to charge on the trip from one location to the other).

What I'll do is try out the system now that I've replaced the blown trailer fuse and once I replace the truck's 40 amp fuse with a 30 amp one and report back.

You folks have put in some serious time thinking about this and I appreciate it.
Don
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Old 10-26-2007, 07:00 PM   #12
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Don

Yes please report back. Something does not add up.

This weekend if I get time, I will pull the cover off my connection box and pop a few pics'.

Mine should be wired very much like yours OR you can see how mine is and check out yours to see waht is different.

Thanks

John
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