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Old 07-29-2019, 11:05 AM   #1
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Delamination of Siding - Filon/Fiberglass type

OK..the siding panel on the drivers side front corner finally broke loose on the last trip..thankfully a short one that I could just tape it up and keep it from pulling off!
I knew it had problems and had let it sit to make sure everything stayed dry and that the materials that had separated were completely dry as well. Yeah I let it go too long!
So yesterday after an early return from the weekend we opened it up and glued the panel back together. Seems to be going well. I had purchased some 4" wide dicor type repair tape and have used it down both front corners now from roof to frame!
I will post what pictures I took and some after pictures as well as soon as I am able. Wifi is out at home the last few days and should be fixed this afternoon!
I used PL300 again just as I did on the door side since it is compatible with foam (the inner core of wall) and didn't damage or discolor the fiberglass panel.
Seems to work just takes some time to set. I braced it once I had it parked and am anxious to see just how well we did!
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:35 AM   #2
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Curious on the pics and looking forward to them. Now that you had it apart, what was the wall make up of the exterior wall panel?

A thin filon panel (~ 1/32" maybe a little more) bonded to 1/8" luan?

And I'm assuming this is a side wall and not the front wall? The front wall may be unicore in place of luan to be able to flex and bend around the curves of the front. Unicore is a thick dense corrugated board. I'm not totally sure Sunline used the Unicore, (what Sunline may have called budboard on the roofs) but other manufactures in the industry did use it during that time range as there was not many other options on how to bend the front and sometimes rear wall board around a curve and not crack it. Luan would crack trying to make those curves.

Thanks

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Old 07-29-2019, 11:41 AM   #3
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Yes it was 1/8 lauan ply on top of foam insulation..it had deteriorated badly .. I did have to loosen the front steel trim to tuck the filon back under it and the only rot I ran into was the very bottom screw. All the others were good.
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Old 07-29-2019, 11:42 AM   #4
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A couple photos..IMG_20190728_131859.jpgIMG_20190728_131725.jpg
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Old 07-29-2019, 04:10 PM   #5
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Passing this along. I have never used this, just found it in my research on repairing filon sided campers in case it may help you.

RV Wall Delamination Repair

They sell an epoxy resin kit you can inject into the wall behind the delam. I have not yet found out how they dry the wall out as the resin does not bond to wet wood. And I have not found out how they deal with luan separation from the wall studs. They have some videos showing their process, but not on the two areas I mentioned above.

In your case, your Advancer has aluminum framing and foam board insulation. In the other Sunlines with filon siding, they have wood framing with fiberglass batt insulation. Rotted wall studs, wet batt insulation may prevent that kit from working as they show. But, the resin may be helpful after all the rot is repaired and you bond the filon back to corrected luan wall board and studs.
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Old 07-29-2019, 05:54 PM   #6
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Thanks.. personally when renovating a trailer I would avoid fiberglass batting or any batting like the plague.
Batting has a tendency to wick and hold moisture the last thing you want in any camper.
Blueboard foam designed for use underground with direct contact with soil is really all I would use if possible. Foil backed foam is second best I'm my opinion. Of course spray foam would always be ideal but it can be expensive.
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Old 07-29-2019, 06:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draughty View Post
Thanks.. personally when renovating a trailer I would avoid fiberglass batting or any batting like the plague.
Batting has a tendency to wick and hold moisture the last thing you want in any camper.
Blueboard foam designed for use underground with direct contact with soil is really all I would use if possible. Foil backed foam is second best I'm my opinion. Of course spray foam would always be ideal but it can be expensive.
I agree the foam board is a better insulation. But it needs to fit correctly to not have air gaps or be spray foamed to close up the gaps to gain the effectiveness. In an RV setting with wood studding, that means all the wall studs, rafters etc. need to be non warped and cut/ fit true to leave no gaps on true cut foam panels. OR cut every piece custom. Labor price point and the added cost on the material I'm sure would be a negative. The batt is the cheapest and covers a lot of forgiveness of everything not being perfect.

Many brands now that make composite walls use foam board. Not the real good foam board, more like the styrofoam board. They are doing it to save time. Use the cheaper foam board, jig up aluminum wall studs that can be straight and not wood warped and it works. How tight the fit really is, is TBD on the brand making it.

I can get by with the batt insulation, but the camper needs to be watertight and sustain it. And that, is an RV industry issue. If we have no leaks, the wall board, flooring, ceilings, wood studding, wood rafters and batt insulation all work.

Every camper I take apart, I learn more about something that caused a leak... There is no lack of continuous improvement ideas ! At work we had to submit continuous improvement ideas every year and they have to meet a high return on the investment. After you do that for 5 to 10 years, the low fruit is all picked off. On a camper, that problem won't happen any time soon...
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:23 PM   #8
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For sure not!
So many ways to improve and so few dollars to do the improvements!
Adding some more photos of the opened up wall. I will add some of the finished repair later when. I get them taken.IMG_20190728_131713.jpgIMG_20190728_131721.jpgIMG_20190728_131725.jpgIMG_20190728_131745.jpgIMG_20190728_131859.jpg
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Old 07-29-2019, 09:54 PM   #9
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Thanks for the pics.

It appears the luan wall board separated within itself before the bond between the filon and the luan fails. Or the luan to the wall studs. And once the luan sheet starts separation, it can split a large area open. Most likely do to moisture affecting the luan glue and tearing along the failed glue line. The luan is so thin, it can come apart easy with the very thin layers. I know, I can split it open trying to bend it even when it is a new sheet, never been wet.

Is that what it looks like the mode of failure was up close? Can't exactly tell from the pics.
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Old 07-30-2019, 06:07 AM   #10
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Now that you explain it that way yes..that makes the most sense. All through the trailer this is what happened. The ply separated and disintegrated to nearly dust. Again a slightly higher quality glue in the ply may have helped..but I know this material and it's price was pretty much unbeatable. And it was pretty tough stuff. Can't blame the design for the glue!
The problem was it had no way to dry once wet.it was encased in layers of water/moisture proof materials that didn't allow any drying at all.
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Old 07-30-2019, 10:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Draughty View Post
The ply separated and disintegrated to nearly dust.

The problem was it had no way to dry once wet.it was encased in layers of water/moisture proof materials that didn't allow any drying at all.
The disintegrated into dust effect has high odds it is from dry rot. Here is what I "think" may have happened as I have seen this before, I'm just not sure the time lengths. I'm slowly building that time line experience. See if this may line up with what you see.

Water made its way in. Problem 1.

The leak may have slowed or stopped. A good thing, but the stage is already set for failure sometime in the future pending what happens next.

The moisture drained down as far as it could go. If water stopped coming in or was almost stopped, the wet up high very slowly starts to diminish. It takes 14 days for mold to grow given wet, damp, a food source, oxygen and temperature. Warmer temps make this even more pronounced. If the event happened in the winter and everything is frozen, the molding stays dormant until conditions warm up.

The molding growth is now underway up high, down low in the puddling area, active rot may be starting. Up high may start to dry out but the drying process was too late and the mold and fungus has already started.

The top area has very limited moisture but mold spores are there and dry rot fungus is present. Over time, (not sure how long but this is more than likely years, ) dry rot is established and starts dusting where ever it can if left along. Wood structural integrity is eventually compromised.

With the structural integrity lowered, normal mechanical twisting and turning from towing overcomes the structural integrity left in the wood and something lets go.

Did you notice a difference in the dust up higher verses at the bottom? And any idea if the floor, bottom of the wall was ever wet?

When ever I have found dry rot, (in rafters, wall top plate areas, even wall studs up high,) the leak was there, did not dry out fast enough, and molding and dry rot fungus started. So far I have only found dry rot up high. Like you said, the wet area can't dry out fast enough to stop the problem. If the leak would of dried out totally in a 10 days to maybe even 3 weeks, the issue may have been never manifested itself to into total failure.

When I take active rot campers apart, when it is still real wet, you don't loose structural integrity from dry rot, it is just plain active wood rot. Everything is dripping wet and wall studs, band boards, rafters are totally gone. But they are not in the dust mode.

It is pure luck, if you can find the leak as soon as it starts. A tree dropping on the roof, OK you can find that and a broken water pipe. Water wicking in a corner molding leak or a split in the roof sealant, slow seeper leaks most times you cannot see or hear. Those are the ones that create a lot of damage. They go undetected and over time (months/years) nature takes over.

If you can clean up the mess of a leak and dry it out in short order, your odds are favorable you can ward off long term damage. Wet walls, etc left alone where the leak was stopped by someone fixing the leak location, but the wall/area never opened up and addressed the wet wood, sooner or later the dry rot will take over and time is just waiting for a structural wood failure to happen.

Does that sound about right?
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Old 07-31-2019, 02:18 PM   #12
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Yeah that sounds exactly right.. fortunately the framing is aluminum and couldn't rot or rust.
This is where I am beginning to believe that slightly corrugated aluminum sheet siding is better than the filon as it will allow some air movement unlike the laminated to the ply filon. A layer of some sort of fibrous fabric that would separate and allow some slight air movement or at least allow vapor to escape from the laminated layers. Housebuilding methodology creeping in here!
Filon is terrific stuff and quite forgiving but it just does not allow vapor to escape.
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Old 08-06-2019, 05:39 PM   #13
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My promised after photos...there is about of bubble left above passenger side window but all in all its reasonably flat..and quite secure for now as we are about 3 hours from home and moving another 5 hours west to Pancake Bay for the weekend... currently on Lake Mindemoya Manitoulin Island.IMG_20190806_181054.jpgIMG_20190806_181047.jpgIMG_20190806_181036.jpgIMG_20190804_204746.jpg
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Old 08-07-2019, 01:35 PM   #14
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Very nice,



I'll bring my chair and be right over I'm sure we can find something to yak about...
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:26 PM   #15
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Yes we could...like designing a new line of Travel Trailers to rival Airstream...
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:46 PM   #16
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Sounds like a plan!
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Old 08-07-2019, 08:24 PM   #17
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I'd be a happy camper!

LOL
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Old 08-08-2019, 06:26 PM   #18
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Looks like you have the same Sunline Advancer that we had. Coming back from Yellowstone our entire drivers side opened exactly like yours. With 2000 miles to go duck tape wasn’t an option. We opted for screws and washers. Which worked well. When we got home we used West Marine epoxy which with the screws solved the issue temporarily. The original problem was water seeping from the roof above the site. While this solved the problem we still had a leak I believe was under the refrigerator which caused the floor to rot. We had replaced it three years prior but at that point gave up and bought a new Jayco to replace it. I will miss that camper but it served us well for several cross country trips. RIP Advancer ��
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Old 08-08-2019, 09:56 PM   #19
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Yeah we are loving ours..3rd owners and we had a major leak and replaced or reinforced the entire floor. But with the aluminum framing we had no mold so it was worth it as all the appliances work perfectly. There is a thread on here of the rebuild but I seriously would have not gotten the leaks sourced and fixed without all the help here! Dicor tape on the roof edges and now down the front corners is really keeping it water tight.
I did have an advantage of being a mechanical designer at an aluminum fabrication shop at the time so some long strips of aluminum sheet are now part of the floor. Adding those and working through all the other issues we had a summer of repair but are now on our second summer of use and it's holding up well.
Longest trip yet going up to the North shore if Lake Superior for Pancake Bay Provincial park. Quite fortunate the side came loose on our shortest trip this season and we were able to swing by the house to fix it on the way back to its parking spot. It was the last of the 'known' issues that had been waiting for time and I guess it decided we had it ignored it long enough;
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