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Old 03-05-2011, 04:04 PM   #1
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CS6000XL power converter for 220V/240V

Hi Folks, on the manaufacturers web site (see bellow) it says the 6000 can operate on 120v/240v

however on mine it has a sticker saying 120 only even though the breakers are 120/240

So the question is, does any one know if the CS6000XL-3 power converter can be used on 220/240 volts OR can it be modified to run on 220/240?


CS6000XL Product Features

Cheers

Richard
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Old 03-05-2011, 05:56 PM   #2
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The makers of all the RV power centers use industry standard breakers; same stuff you find in Home Depot or Lowes. The breakers may be marked 120/240, but the appliance in which they are used determines the actual operating voltage, not the individual components.

The power center can be used in a 50 amp, 240 vac RV, but the AC is connected into it differently. As it is installed in your 30 amp, 120 vac Sunline, it is 120 vac ONLY.

In theory, you could rewire your trailer to be a 240 vac unit, but that would make it very difficult to use in the many campgrounds that only supply 120 vac at the post. And you'd rule out using one of the several 3,000 watt generators that are so popular for dry camping.

Your Sunline was built and wired as a 30 amp, 120 vac system. Converting it to 240 without rewiring the entire trailer, would likely be highly problematic.
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:41 PM   #3
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Steve this unit has been imported in to Australia and over here everything is 240v 50Hz hence the question.

Cheers
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:41 PM   #4
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Hi Richard

Welcome to Sunline Owners Club.

I know of the American unit. I have had 2 of them. As Steve said, the entire camper is not setup for 220V. In fact I do not know why American is even advertising it that way. The 120 VAC breakers have a bus bar that is intended for 120 VAC outlets and to other 120vac appliances.

While the physical converter may be made able to handle the 220V input, not much else is.

So we can help better, what pointed you to wanting to set the system up on 220? May be able to help you out with that need.

Is this on a Sunline camper or any other camper? Or are you using the converter as a DC power supply for some other use? If so they sell DC power supplies just for that that can be 220 input and a lot cheaper.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:44 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
Steve this unit has been imported in to Australia and over here everything is 240v 50Hz hence the question.

Cheers
Oh OK now I see what your up to. I spent some time down under for work.

Is this a Sunline? There is going to need to be a lot of other work to do to convert the rest of the camper.

If this is a Sunline what model and year?

Thanks

John
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Old 03-06-2011, 05:28 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
Steve this unit has been imported in to Australia and over here everything is 240v 50Hz hence the question.

Cheers
Would you kindly give us all the information about this power center? I am a touch embarrassed that I gave an answer to your question thinking you were here in North America like almost all of the other folks here on SOC.

I guess I should remember the old adage about "assuming" things.
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:10 PM   #7
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LOL, common enough Steve, and i just noticed my location is not showing up in my profile, i'll have to fix that.

Now not sure what else i can tell you about the center other than what's on the manaufacturers web site.

I've already converted all the lighting over to 12v only, the reefer i have a 240v - 110v rectifier on order, power points are now AU standard (double pole switched) as is the RCD so i just have to deal with the power center.
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Old 03-06-2011, 06:47 PM   #8
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Forgive my ignorance here, but our homes are supplied 220/240 V 60 HZ AC, and it just gets split into two circuits of 110/120 at the fuse box.
If the converter is not sensitive to the 50 HZ frequency, what would be wrong with just using the one side of the 220/240 input?
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:15 PM   #9
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I guess i could set that up at home if i got in the back of the fuse box and ran a circuit just for the van but it wouldn't help when i'm traveling.
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Old 03-06-2011, 07:58 PM   #10
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Hi Woodsy

Just asking if this is a Sunline camper you have as we can be very specific on it then. Year and model and we some of us may have one like it.

If this is another brand, and still a US version then these things need to be looked at. You may have already know these and maybe addressed them. Just passing this along in case you may have missed one.

The 120 VAC element on the fridge, the rest of it is 12 VDC. It sounds like you have that covered.

The converter, that you know about. American does have tech service that will talk with you. I have called them. I assume they have email as well, never contacted them that way but it may work with your tome zone issues. If the converter has on-board regulation to take 120 or 220 down to it's operating voltage then your set. Or it may need jumpers moved on the board. American can help fill in those blanks as it is not normal here in north America to have to deal with 220 on a camper. That is unless someone makes the mistake of our 120 VAC 30amp camper plug and wires it up on 220 and creates a problem. And that has happened more then once by reports of folks.

The roof top AC unit. That totally runs on AC but has 12 vdc control wiring. Need to insure it is convertable.

If your hot water heater has an electric element need to make sure the power relay and the element can handle the 220

I'm assuming you will be converting the wall outlets to the 220V configuration.

The circuit breakers and wire was setup for 120 VAC. Meaning the amperage of the breakers. You may need to change the breakers to a smaller size as with 220 you can get very close to twice the power. Many smaller campers are setup on a 30 amp shore line plug system. You will need to address that so the breakers line up with the incoming power post.

The microwave, if yours has it. Need to check if it is dual voltage.

That list covers most Sunline campers and many other US brand campers that where setup on 30amp 120 VAC.

Once you get setup up and working and out camping it would be really interesting to see how the other half of the world camps. Some pictures of your adventures would be really interesting.

Good luck and hope this helps

John
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Old 03-06-2011, 08:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
I guess i could set that up at home if i got in the back of the fuse box and ran a circuit just for the van but it wouldn't help when i'm traveling.
Woodsy, I'm assuming in your part of the world you have 220volts between hot and neutral. So the shore line power cord to the camper has 3 wires, 220V hot, AC neutral and a ground. Is this correct?

Also what amperage is the average campground power post you plug into? 10 amps, 15amps or larger?

John
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:16 PM   #12
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John,
I know Norway and Sweden run 220V 50Hz household current, and it is 220 for an ungrounded socket, so both "holes" are live ( I won't go into detail on how I know that). What I don't know is if it would be 110 from each to ground.
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
Hi Folks, on the manaufacturers web site (see bellow) it says the 6000 can operate on 120v/240v


"however on mine it has a sticker saying 120 only even though the breakers are 120/240"

So the question is, "does any one know if the CS6000XL-3 power converter can be used on 220/240 volts" OR can it be modified to run on 220/240?


CS6000XL Product Features

Cheers

Richard

I would say the solution to the problem is that the converter can 'not' be used on 220/240. It has a sticker on it saying it cannot. Why would other units have ratings for dual voltage, and be posted for that use, on them but that rating removed on this one? Did they scrimp on wire gauges or transformer size? The manufacturer went to some trouble to warn against dual use of this converter so I'd not risk it.

Is there something to put in between of the camper and site power supply that reduces voltage input to 110V for the entire camper? I'd feel safer knowing the entire unit has the proper voltage it was designed for.


My two cents.

Edited to add: If the converter can stand the difference in voltages can it also stand the difference in cycles from 60 to 50? What problem will that create?


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Old 03-07-2011, 09:27 AM   #14
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Jim,
If you can't split the 220, a transformer would work for reducing, but some electric motors are sensitive to AC frequency. Make sure the A/C compressor motor and fan are O.K. with 50Hz.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:41 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking View Post
Jim,
If you can't split the 220, a transformer would work for reducing, but some electric motors are sensitive to AC frequency. Make sure the A/C compressor motor and fan are O.K. with 50Hz.
Roar

Roar, I did see reduction transformers but they didn't say if they would change the cycles. I think the cycles are more important to solid state equipment like TVs or digital clocks. It does seem the simple, easiest and maybe even cheapest thing to do is to just buy the proper equipment. Expeciallly if you consider a mistake might burn down the whole unit.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:27 PM   #16
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Jim,
If the tag on an electric motor indicates a specific frequency, such as 60Hz or 50 Hz, instead of 60 - 50Hz, or "Universal" which will even run on DC, it will not run right on some other frequency and could overheat or run at a different RPM than what it was designed for.
Proceed with care!
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:15 PM   #17
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Hi Guys

Here is some to add to the discussion. The frequency of AC voltage will pass straight thru a transformer. If it is 60 htz on the way in, regardless if it is step up (boost) or step down, (buck) while the voltage will change coming out the frequency stays the same.

AC motors are wired typically to run as a certain speed for a certain frequency. For instance, a 60 hrtz motor wound to run 1,750 RPM motor will run 1,750 RPM at 60 hertz. If I hook it to 50 hrtz it will run ~ 16.7% slower. The speed is proportional to the frequency. So that 1,750 RPM motor will run 1,458 rpm at 50 hrtz. And at 30 htz it will run 1/2 speed or 875 rpm.

Varying frequency is a common day way to create a variable speed motor drive. They call them Variable Frequency Drives or VFD. When they 1st came out in the affordable commercial/industrial world world in the early 80's the 1st ones actually ran on a single phase input. I remember we had to buy an unusual step down transformer to create 90 volts AC single phase to feed the thing. It then created 3 phase 220 volts out electronically. The size of a drive to run a 3 hp motor was about 30" long, 24 inches wide and 8 inches deep. As time went by they came out with what is called Pulse width modulated drives. Wow now we are cooking... Yeh ha. This could take a 460 3 phase 60 htz input and run a 3 phase 460 3 phase motor. A 7.5 hp drive was now about 5 feet tall, 3 feet wide and 8 inched deep....

As time went by they came out with IGBT output drives and the size and cost of these things dropped dramatically. A 3 hp drive is now the size of a shoe box... and not very expensive. And as technology advanced we now have vector drives that are getting very close to creating the action of a servo motor thur the use a standard 3 phase AC motor.

These frequency drives can turn down the frequency and up. You can turn down to 15 htz or go up to 120 htz. Horsepower and torque end up getting affected but you have a speed knob that can really turn a long way.

Roar mentioned heat. Yes that is an issue that has to be controlled. Motors designed to run on different frequencies have higher class insulation on the wiring to handle the heat. In many cases where you turn down the speed of the motor so far you have to have an external motor fan blowing over the motor at high speed to cool it. These things are now all common place in the industrial world.

Now to our campers. Here is the sticker off of a Dometic AC fan.




old one


new one


There is an older motor that froze up... next to the new one. The starting capacitors where a little different but these motors are wound on 115 volts and 60 htz. On a standard North America camper AC unit this this one is going to be more of a challenge to over come. While a step down transformer can convert 220 to 120 VAC it will not create 50 htz.

That 1,650 rpm motor will run 1,376 rpm on 50 htz. The fan motor may not be so much an issue but the compressor motor can be. The fan for sure will not be blowing as hard and may not cool as good because of it. The compressor on the other had, that's a different story. I do not know if they use speed to create the right gas pressure to cool with. I did not take a pic of that tag.

A microwave that has a motor in it can also have issues. But at the price of portable microwaves, this problem can be cheaply rectified. Basically anything with an AC motor on it would need to be checked for what frequency does to it.

Electronics and frequency depends on what it is. Take your lap top computer. Look at the power supply. Dual voltage is common. I have run my lap top in Germany just like here at home. The power supply takes AC and makes DC and the computer runs on DC so it does not care about frequency. Point is, if the electronic device takes AC to make DC and runs on DC then frequency does not enter the equation as much as a big picture rule. And I'm sure there may be exceptions.

Doing a transformer to convert the entire camper while it may solve a few issues does not fix everything. Just like we have all kinds of 120 VAC things to plug in, folks who live in a 220 VAC country have lots of 220 volt things to plug in and they canot use them in a 120 vac camper. So going transformer is not a total working solution. In this case every item needs to be looked at and converted accordingly.

Roar you talked about both round pins in the wall in Sweden being hot... I remember plugging my lap top with an adapter on it into a wall socket in Germany and crackle still is a bit unnerving as I know it's a 220 crackle.

I'm making an assumption here that European countries may not ground one leg of their transformers so both wires are hot in relation to earth ground. Here in North America it is common practice to ground the neutral at the transformers so only 1 wire is live to earth ground thus making circuit safer by reducing the odds of shock to ground.

Hope all this helps Woodsy sort out his camper.

John
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Old 03-08-2011, 05:36 AM   #18
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john, Most informative.

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Old 04-27-2011, 07:30 PM   #19
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I think your 220 is a two wire system like the US wiring but at 220 volts there is a transformer called a buck/boast it will make 220 110 or 110 220 depending on how you wire it. If you are going to use it for A/C it will be hefty 50+pounds and be at least 3KVA. Most motors will tolerate 50HZ.
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