Converter not converting..... - Page 2

Jim-Bev-2363 · 04-17-2012, 08:44 AM

That might do if it is rated for 30 Amps.

I have made a dedicated circuit, positive and negative from/to converter, for the converter and that part seems to be doing fine now. Battery shows increased voltage when plugged into 120V.

I've also connected a 30Amp fused line for the jack that is from the battery positive. The fuse in this line will have to be replaced with a slow blow fuse soon.

I haven't found the size of fuse for the breakaway switch, yet.

And I haven't found what size fuse is needed for the black/battery wire from the TV to the battery. I assume that black wire is for charging the house battery when traveling and think it will need a fuse.

After cleaning up the wiring that was done before it is looking neater, and I have some labels on wires to help until I learn what is what.

Jim-Bev-2363 · 04-17-2012, 10:42 AM

Wiring almost done good enuff to travel. A view of the wiring at the battery box. Wires are captured in teh wireloom until they need to go to the battery.

Wires from the front of the tongue, jack and breakaway switch, were just hanging loose so I inserted them in the wireloom an taped it closed. Wire ties hold loom from bouncing around.

Now to relax for awhile until I know what size the breakaway switch fuse has to be and I buy another 30Amp fuse for the jack and find out what size fuse to use for the black wire to the TV. Getting closer all the time.

The main thing is that the converter charger needs to "see" the battery (as someone said) before it will attempt to charge. The testing of the wires from the battery to the converter/charger let me know the problem was in the positive wire. Then I traced to find the bad wire location and repaired problems. Not only does charger charge battery the house 12Volt system is working as intended when not on 120V shore power.

Jim-Bev-2363 · 04-17-2012, 11:39 AM

Now, after checking for the 7-Way plugs charging circuit I see no fuse shown. I will assume the TV fuse for that circuit will be sufficient. So the black charging wire from the trailers pigtail will go straight to the battery unless someone knows different.

Also, the breakaway switch has no fuse shown it that circuit either. Maybe that is to make sure there is a direct power supply for the brakes in case of an emergency.

With these two things in mind I only need to connect two wires to the battery without buying any fuse holders. I will need the 30Amp slowblow fuse for the jack and I will be set to travel. Now I can take my time finding parts to upgrade the wiring to include a weather proof box for fuses and a main isolation switch for the battery when camper is not being used.

Thanks for the help and putting up with my wiring repair.

EMD_Driver · 04-17-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

Now, after checking for the 7-Way plugs charging circuit I see no fuse shown. I will assume the TV fuse for that circuit will be sufficient. So the black charging wire from the trailers pigtail will go straight to the battery unless someone knows different.

Also, the breakaway switch has no fuse shown it that circuit either. Maybe that is to make sure there is a direct power supply for the brakes in case of an emergency.

I've often wondered what would happen, if there was a short in the trailer charge line. Somewhere between the 7-way plug and the battery. I have never seen a fuse there on ours and don't believe it has one. That could well be a future mod for me... Our "New" Sunny has the junction box in the front closet and easily accessed. I'll have to see which wire comes out of that box and ends up at the battery. If nothing else, I'll install a self-resetting circuit breaker in that line.

I also don't think the breakaway switch would have a fuse. It would almost certainly blow in an emergency application of the brakes and would defeat the purpose of the switch, in the first place.

Your repair looks good!

mainah · 04-17-2012, 03:02 PM

I would use a auto reset breaker for the jack simple and has nice heavy lugs for your connections and serves as a slow blow. The charge wire is (or should be) at the battery (30 amp) most likely a black wire the other end is protected by the truck wiring. If it's not a problem with the TV wiring will become the trailers problem even if it blows the TV fuse because of a common ground. The other 30 amp fuse is for the camper (probably red) going to the converter. The brake away switch is not fused guess a wiring fire is not much of a issue if the trailer is on its own. Once the #8 wire gets to the converter the output wiring is black+ # 12 or 14 wire fused from the converter fuse box.

Jim-Bev-2363 · 04-17-2012, 04:15 PM

Thanks! This "repair" is easier to understand than the bowl of spaghetti it replaces.

When thinking about the charging wire being fused, or not, I wondered that if anything ever did happen would more fuses in different locations make the repair more work than necessary. When/If the battery quits charging all I need to do is check the plug on the TV for power. If no power then check fuse in TV. If power then check plug connections. Simple. If I add another protection device I'll have to check it also. So going by the original design seems to make servicing easier and just as safe, maybe.

When looking at my jack schematic the exploded view shows a circuit breaker at the powerhead close to the control switch. Not knowing the rating of this circuit breaker I wonder if a fuse at the battery is really needed for this power line. It does seem like a double safety on this piece of equipment. I did go ahead and install a 30Amp slow blow fuse because the manufacturer's parts list shows one.

Going by installation instructions I only need two fuses at the battery.
1 - The 30Amp charging line from the converter to the battery. (which started my problem to begin with)
2 - The 30Amp slow blow for the tongue jack.

All other 12Volt equipment is either protected by the TV fuses or should not be fused or runs from the converter's fused connections.

It seems that more fuses are either redundant or unsafe. It is for sure more fuses will be confusing.

The 8Ga wiring from the converter is to handle the high amp output of the charger to the battery. Using 12V from the battery is reduced in size because nothing draws very high amperage and is fused on the converter panel.

EMD_Driver · 04-17-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim-Bev-2363

It seems that more fuses are either redundant or unsafe. It is for sure more fuses will be confusing.

Thinking about it some more, the trailer charge line (Back-fed from the battery, when not connected to the TV) is already protected by the 30A circuit breaker. That's how it is on our Sunny..

Gene · 04-17-2012, 05:38 PM

Jim, that sure looks a whole lot better than when you started.

As far as I know, every TV has a fuse to protect everything downstream from it. As you said, you should only need one fuse near the trailer battery to protect wiring downstream from it and then the inline fuse for the jack which would be connected directly to the battery.

EMD_Driver · 04-17-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene

As far as I know, every TV has a fuse to protect everything downstream from it.

My truck has a 30AMP MAXI fuse protecting the trailer charge line (Don't ask how I know.) Our fifth wheel is quite different from the TT and that's what I had in mind, in my previous post. Between the fifth wheel's 7-way plug and the battery, is about 20' of wire. All that wire is subject to insulation degradation/wear and the possibly of shorting out the battery, without the TV even connected.

If I'm not mistaken, the T-320SR had a trailer charge line fuse, in the box on the header. I'd just rather be on the safe side of things...

Jim-Bev-2363 · 04-17-2012, 05:57 PM

There are two battery charge lines. One is from the converter charger panel and has a 30Amp fuse for protection when on shore power. The non-fused trailer battery charge line is from the #4 lug on the trailer plug that has a black heavy wire to the positive side of the battery. I just looked at my Ford Expedition and there is a 30Amp fuse in that line from the main fuse panel on the vehicle. I retested the plug with the fuse removed from the main fuse panel to make sure that fuse really was to that plug connection. It was. That should protect that line all the way to the trailer battery when plugged into the vehicle. I still don't see why two fuses in that one line would be needed. Maybe the newer Sunny wiring has the fuse in case the TV didn't fuse that wire in the TV.

When not on shore power the 12V 30Amp fused line from the converter becomes the positive supply line to the camper's 12V equipment. A double duty wire depending on what power supply is being used.

Edited: Typing at the same time I see. This 2363 only has about four feet from the pigtail plug to the battery. Wire is captured inside wire loom, wire-tied to the frame and has little chance of moving around to wear insulation.

Jim-Bev-2363 · 04-17-2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene

Jim, that sure looks a whole lot better than when you started.

As far as I know, every TV has a fuse to protect everything downstream from it. As you said, you should only need one fuse near the trailer battery to protect wiring downstream from it and then the inline fuse for the jack which would be connected directly to the battery.

Thanks! With the fuse from the converter/charger hanging on the outside of the battery box I can simply remove that fuse to stop drain during storage. No climbing to use a main shutoff switch.

My desire is to install a panel close to the converter, under the sink, and install a main and fuse in there protected from outside influence.

Jim-Bev-2363 · 04-17-2012, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EMD_Driver

Between the fifth wheel's 7-way plug and the battery, is about 20' of wire. All that wire is subject to insulation degradation/wear and the possibly of shorting out the battery, without the TV even connected.

In your case a fuse by teh battery would seem a good idea.

mainah · 04-17-2012, 07:16 PM

Here is the logic with a TV fused charge line, If the TV develops a short in the charge line the fuse blows on the TV however the short still remains now the trailer battery is still connected to the shorted TV wiring the grounds are common so the short exists at the trailer battery setting fire to the wiring and possibly the connector on both ends that's why you should have a fused charge line at the trailer.

Jim-Bev-2363 · 04-17-2012, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mainah

If the TV develops a short in the charge line the fuse blows on the TV however the short still remains now the trailer battery is still connected to the shorted TV wiring the grounds are common so the short exists at the trailer battery setting fire to the wiring and possibly the connector on both ends that's why you should have a fused charge line at the trailer.

OK, I'll install the fuse. We'll isolate that short coming and going.