Brakes Optional

[luvrque]

Thanks Steve & John,

Steve,
It seems like you do the same thing with your Prodigy, except you switch from Boost 3 to Off ... & I switch from #30 to #20. (one move)

John,
I have a Hopkins Impulse. Steve also said he makes one adjustment from Stop & Go Driving to Higway driving. I am Not saying the Impulse is as good as the Prodigy. The Impluse does have a manual slide override to use the TT like a anchor, as you said in your prior post in case of a sway event.
I have No problem with the Impulse BUT I pull a Small Light TT with a Large SUV.
The Ford integrated controller sounds GREAT. I would think it is Not available on their SUV's ?

[SanDimasJoe]

I'm just curious. Those of you with a Prodigy brake controller, what are you're settings as far as the initial setting. The instructions say to travel down a street at approx. 25 mph then adjust your setting to just below locking up your trailer brakes.(I've never been able to lock mine up). I have my controller set to 12 and that is where I can feel the tt brakes grabbing and slowing the truck down. What do you Prodigy owners have yours set at?

Joe

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by SanDimasJoe

I'm just curious. Those of you with a Prodigy brake controller, what are you're settings as far as the initial setting. The instructions say to travel down a street at approx. 25 mph then adjust your setting to just below locking up your trailer brakes.(I've never been able to lock mine up). I have my controller set to 12 and that is where I can feel the tt brakes grabbing and slowing the truck down. What do you Prodigy owners have yours set at?

Joe

Joe, when was the last time you adjusted your brakes?

If you are standing still and you apply full brake controller with the manual lever, do the brakes lock up when you gentley try to move?

[Steve Collins]

Joe, JohnB has nailed it, I think. I have a Prodigy, and with all four brakes properly adjusted, I get good stopping power with the controller set in the 4.0 to 9.0 range. 10 or better locks 'em up.

I think I am set at about 5.0 right now and do not adjust that during a trip. I do turn the boost up or down depending on highway or stop and go or in-between situations.

Every rig is a bit different and my numbers may not ever be possible with yours but you should be able to adjust the controller gain down and still have full stopping power.

[SanDimasJoe]

John,

I had my brakes, bearings done last year. I have not taken the TT out since then. Your think the brakes need adjusting?

Joe

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by SanDimasJoe

I had my brakes, bearings done last year. I have not taken the TT out since then. Your think the brakes need adjusting?

Joe

H’mm OK Joe, good info. I posed those 2 simple questions to gain a lot about your setup.

The time limit between adjustment let me know if the brakes are adjusted at least semi close enough to allow brake lock up. When they get too far out of adjustment they loose there stopping power. And in the more extreme case that the magnet arm hits the axle, they may stop working just about all together.

If you had them adjusted last year and have not towed more then 2,000 to 3,000 miles then that gives a fair level of confidence they are adjusted OK.

The full power on with the manual lever and the gain high when standing still and trying to slowly roll/pull forward slow is a drag test. This takes mass and speed out of the equation and tells us something about the connection from the brake controller all the way to the brake coils.

A bad ground, a loose connection in the 7 wire plug, 1 complete axle not doing anything because the feed wire is broke off, a shorted brake coil can all be part of failing a drag test on a rig of your size. 7,000# GVWR TT with 10 x 2” brakes.

Before you go nuts trouble shooting, if the brake controller with the gain on high and the manual lever all the way on will not lock them in a drag test, then try this.

Unhook the 7 wire plug from the truck so the TT is electrically disconnected. Very important as what you are about to do could damage your brake controller if you do not unplug.

Pull the emergency breakaway cable and hop in the truck and slowly pull forward. The brakes should lock up once you roll about 3 to 6”. Then stop and go put the pin back in. This is best on gravel. If you have no gravel, then you should for sure feel like you going to drag the TT and don't pending the hard furface your on. Putting flat spots on the tires is not geat while 1 or 2" drag may not likly do that, you don't have to prove that to get the test done. Some one looking at all 4 wheels can tell if 1 or 2 are easier to roll then the 2 tires squeezing down as they are locked.

Now a heads up on the breakaway switch if you have not pulled it out in years. It may be stuck in there like it feels the eyelet on the end is going to pull off and it just might. They have an O ring on the pin to keep water out and the thing swells some times and really gets stuck in there. As part of my annual and bi annual maintenance I pull the pin and spray the O ring with liquid silicone to help stop that from happening. And if you can’t get you pin to come out, well that is an issue to get fixed.

If you pass the drag test thru the breakaway switch on your size camper and all 4 tires, well then the TT is not suspect yet. Corrosion on the 7 way plug can rob voltage from passing thru. Dielectric grease here helps big time. Or there is another issue in the truck

Now to locking them up rolling down the road. Some will and some won’t and that does not mean something is wrong. These electric brakes are not like auto brakes with great strength in stopping power. They are doing the best they can per design limits. An empty TT has a good chance of lock up. A 7,000# GVWR TT loaded to 7,000# might not lock doing 20 or 30 down the road. It may lock some where in the 5,000# range and maybe in the 6,000# range or maybe not. Even Dexter declares this.

As a point of reference my prior 7,000# GVWR TT loaded to 6,000# could lock some times in a turn if I had the gain up too high. But my big one I have now will not lock doing 25 down the road even with full power. They are 12 x 2 brakes and with water up to 9,200# on a brake sized in the 10,000 to 12,000 range. They do stop per the design rate, just lock up at full weight is not a criteria.

So first make sure you pass the drag test with the controller. If you can’t well then odds are likely something is not letting full power get to the brake coils or there is an issue in the brakes them selves. If you can pass the drag test, then you may find there is a speed lockup point. 10 mph might where 20 won’t.

Hope this helps

John

[SanDimasJoe]

John,
There is much to said about doing your own work. I used to do all my mechanic work, but with age I have gotten lazy. I really think, like you, that the linings need adjustment. Something that should have been done at the repair place. But unless you're there watching, you really don't know. I am going to jack up the trailer next week and check the adjustment on each wheel. One other thing, do you use a regular brake adjustment tool or a special one? I ask this because the axles drop almost behind the brake adjustment slot. Again, thanks for all your help.

Joe

[JohnB]

Hi Joe

No a standard brake spoon will not go in there or at least the ones I have in the tool box from years ago when drum brakes use to be the in thing. But I made one. Take a piece of 1/4” round steel about 8 inch long. Forge (aka beat with hammer) one end flat to about 1/16” screw driver size tip. The end will come rounded as you flattened out a circle. Leave it on there, do not grind straight across as that will allow you to engage the adjuster on an angle.

See here. I gave one away with the older camper as it was the only thing I could come up with to get in there. Can make new ones quick no problem. The Dexter manual says to use a “special tool” yet they do not show you what it looks like or make it know they will sell you one…








Good luck

PS try the breakaway drag test too. You have a heavy truck and it will stop the camper well. HenryJ has close to your same setup and he had a back axle wire break off on his trip home this winter. The way they wire these brakes as standard you can loose the entire rear axle worth of brakes with one wire separation in the right (wrong) place.

John

[Steve Collins]

If you have the opportunity to pull the drums, lubing the star adjuster will make future brake adjustments very easy. In the pic below, I have circled two places that need to be lubed. I use the same high temp grease that I pack the bearings with. Remove the star adjuster and take it apart. Lube the threads (circled on the left) and the other end (circled) on the right. The goal is to get the star adjuster to turn much easier so you want to lube the inside of the star adjuster as completely as possible. I also lubed the star itself and the area of the spring that it contacts. Not too much lube as you don't want it to get on the drum or shoe surfaces.



The Dexter manual has more info on lubing the brake assemblies.

[SanDimasJoe]

John,

Ok, come Monday I will attempt to readjust the brakes. Incidently, I did jack up the tt one side at a time and hooked up the 7 pin to the truck. I did this to make sure all wheel brakes energized. I had my wife apply the manual lever while I spun all four wheels one at a time. They did. I also had her apply the brake pedal and they all were energized. So I think my main concern is in the brake shoe adjustment. I do have a regular adjustment tool which I will try to use. Thanks.

Joe

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by luvrque

The Ford integrated controller sounds GREAT. I would think it is Not available on their SUV's ?

Joe

Ford and GM now have integrated brake controllers. Ford was first in 2005 and I can't remember when GM started, a few years after. I have not looked yet if Dodge has one too.

You can buy an aftermarket high end controller that comes close but still doe not tie into the complete truck system.

The BrakeSmart Controller has a pressure transducer they put on the brake line pressure line after the master cylinder. I can't seem to find the company web site. They where bought a while ago and do not know if they are marketed by another company.
http://www.trailersaver.com/pdf/brak...ion_manual.pdf

Hensley has one too Brake Controller - TruControl by Hensley Mfg.

I have not had any experience with either but I have a buddy using the Brake Smart on his 2500 Suburban and it works very well.

The Jordan controller, also very good but in the league of the Prodigy series was sold to Camco. And Camco did do anything with it. Bought it and poof a good controller is off the market. Seems they did not see a large enough return on the investment where the original developer/owner did. Camco seems to be buying up small companies lately. I did not realize they bought EAZ lift WD hitches until I went looking for update instructions earlier this week.

If your looking for an upgrade, the P3 http://www.tekonsha.com/product/details.asp?ProdID=90195&cat=1435 is the next evolution of the Prodigy. From there you start jumping into the super high end controllers.

John

[Sunline Fan]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Ford and GM now have integrated brake controllers. Ford was first in 2005 and I can't remember when GM started, a few years after. I have not looked yet if Dodge has one too.

Hi John,

I know Ford started like you said in 2005 with the Super Duties as an option, but I think just recently they started offering them in the F150's. I don't know about GM, but I do remember from when Fred & Janet Powell got their new Dodge 1500, they didn't have one. I remember at the time she found out the 2500 and 3500 had it optional for the 2010 MY, but the 1500 wouldn't have it until the 2011 MY. I'm guessing the 2011's are already out, but I'm not sure. I have no idea how Dodge's controller works though.

Jon

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by Sunline Fan

Hi John,

I know Ford started like you said in 2005 with the Super Duties as an option, but I think just recently they started offering them in the F150's.
Jon

Thanks Jon. Yes the new F150's have the integrated brake controller and a yaw sensor system to sense a sway event and alternate the TV brakes and maybe the TT brakes too. It does not eliminate the need for mechanical sway control but I see this new feature as a positive move on Fords part. The technology has been around for a while and in fact in Europe they have the ability to have braking anti sway on the TT. The age of anti lock brakes and traction control paved the way for this electronic anti sway system.

[Viking]

John,
I am surprised over your statement about Europe.
I just returned from visiting my daughter in Sweden a few days ago, and I had a discussion about trailers and their hitch and brake systems with my son-in-law.
He claimed that electric brakes were just about unheard of over there. They seem to be hooked on surge brakes. He was also totally unfamiliar with weight distribution and sway control systems.
Roar

[JohnB]

Roar, yes I spent some time in Germany and saw there caravans all over the place, small ones and being pulled by small cars. There hitch is totally different and there "anti snaking" hitch applies extreme pressure on the forged all 1 piece tow ball. No screw on threads like ours over here. I never saw in person the TT with the yaw sensor and brakes on the TT but I think AlKo did it. I'll look for the tech write up. And yes, all the brake I saw where surge brakes or a biog parking break for a run away camper unhooking. I thought I created a post on here a few years ago with all that. I’ll have to look.

I will say this, at least in Germany, they broadcast each week on TV how to balance your caravan for safe towing and they have lower speed limits for towing a camper. I think about 45 MPH is it. And maybe 50 MPH if you have a sway control hitch. And they enforce and follow the speed limits that I saw for campers. However everyone else was driving way over the speed limit but not the campers. Speed is one big component in sway. Once you are over 45 mph things start to escalate that could have been stable at 40.

What Ford did with the new electronic sway control is a good move foward.

[JohnB]

Here is the link to campers in Germany. Man that was over 3 years ago now. Where does time go...

http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f6...pics-8305.html

[luvrque]

Originally Posted by JohnB

Here is the link to campers in Germany. Man that was over 3 years ago now. Where does time go...

http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f6...pics-8305.html

John,

Thanks for sharing again. I was not on this site 3yrs.ago, very intresting to see & read...........

[Viking]

John,
You learn something new every day!
I was not aware of the hitch with the built in friction pads clamping the ball for sway control. This did not come up in the conversation, and I am not aware that the presence of one of these would have an effect on how fast one could tow in Scandinavia. Seems like stabilizing force in one of these would be small compared to one of the friction bars used commonly here.
Talking to a guy, who owns a "caravan" (TT to us), he had never seen a dump station or a full hook up site, as we know them. His TT has a small cassette tank for the toilet. I think he said it was 15 liters, approximately 4 gallons. This they have to remove from the TT, access from the outside, and carry it to a special place to empty. What a pain in the arse!
I am not clear on what they did with the gray water. What I saw was that he just let it run out on the grass, but I am not sure if this is acceptable in a CG.
He was parked in my daughter's yard at the time.
My son-in-law does have safety chains on his utility trailer, but I was remiss in not checking this on his uncle's TT.
Roar