Bias versus Radial

[emam]

Hey Norm, isnt that one beautiful road!!

We've had multiple tires on our 2499 in the past few years. The stock Mission, a Maxxis and some Goodyear Marathons.

All had different blowouts with one thing in common. Ever single time we had a blowout, it would be on long drive days. Days that we had to get somewhere and spent more that our usual 2-4 hours on the road.

So the tires heating up I would say is the #1 issue with blowouts.

I havent tried to switch to LT Tires, but was thinking about this before we get back on the road in Mid-January.

Right now we're going against all the theories and have two tires on one side of the coach that are 225-75 R15 E Rated, and the other side has one of the stock Mission 205-75 R15 C Rated tires that has a few plugs and various scuffs in it and I think a Goodyear Marathon that looks pretty beat up too

Before we get back on the road, I think I want to try this theory of the LT Tires and will put two 225-75 R15 E Rated tires on the other side.

We always stay right around the 58-65 range for fuel mileage as we've found the transmission and fuel gauge like that speed best. Always in the tow/haul mode for the use of the engine brake and so far so good!

This was a very interesting thread though!

[Hematite]

Pat:

Since you brought the LT tire concept into the fray, I just wanted to pass on an observation. After the 2499 header was reinforced, we went for a long (for us) trip to Southern Maine. It was the end of September, so the outside temps were moderate.

After driving for hours we made a stop. I checked the tires, all around. My truck was ordered with the optional Good Year Wrangler LT tires instead of the standard P radials. When towing, I run 50 lbs pressure in all the tires. The LT tires are superb on the F150 when towing, not so much when not towing because of a very firm ride even with reduced tire pressures. Anyway, the tires on the Sunline were quite cool to the touch, surprisingly. The LT tires on the truck were, on the other hand, quite warm. Not hot but quite warm. I was pretty surprised at this, as I expected both sets of tires to be about the same temps.

It makes me think that LT tires have much heavier sidewalls than other radial tires. That would definitely account for the very stiff ride even with reduced pressures and the heat buildup even compared to the Mission ST tire. It could also be saying that the Mission ST tires DON'T have a very strong sidewall. Come to think of it, maybe that is the real answer to the puzzle of the heat differences and the failures.

I'm just throwing this info out there to, hopefully, help us come up with a definitive answer about tires, as impossible as that seems!

[emam]

Good observation Rick.

I do the same and check my truck tires along with the coach tires on every stop. I've never noticed a difference between the temperatures of the tires?

Usually if the coach tires feel too hot for my liking, we sit still for an spell. Either play a game of cards or just call it quits for the day.

I agree that the Mission sidewalls are junk and is the main reason I wanted to find an option to move up to an E rated tire. We had two missions fail due to sidewall damage and I know it was just from rough roads, not a curb.

Had another one form a huge bubble on the sidewall and I had it replaced before it had a chance to blowout, but the guy at the tire store looked at it and commented that "Those tires look like they have some flimsy sidewalls on them the way that bubble formed right there!"

[JohnB]

Fellow Sunliners

Ran into this today and thought I would share as we have had very good tire discussion here on Sunline Club. If you have not read this entire link, try it. Interesting. It talks a lot about tire age, now they are talking 3 years…. And I thought 5 years was bad enough on changing out tires.

Actually after searching the forum to find the right post to put this in, “Mark” found us this link a long time ago but it was more in the Bias verses Radial and I never read the whole article.

It also talks on ST and LT and Bias vrs Radial.

http://www.discounttire.com/dtcs/inf...ionAnxiety.dos

http://www.discounttiredirect.com/di...ionAnxiety.jsp

Then there is the age and internal heat damage statements, This statement made is well, WOW...

"As an estimate, in about three years roughly one-third of a tire's strength is gone, just because of the normal process of aging," Fry claimed. "We believe three to five years is the projected life of normal trailer tires."

The five year deal was bad enough but 3 years... I am about to buy 5 new tires here in the next month for the TT. I went in and priced them out and requested of the guy, I have a request that the date code on each tire must be 1 year or less. He said he had only 2 in stock in that age range and would have to special order the rest. In my case I have time and can wait until all 5 I pay for are actually "new". If we have a 3 year target and you walk out the door with a 2 year or older tire, well the math is not good for longevity.

There must be something going on with the materials of construction as auto tires are not this bad for a 3 year warning. If what they are saying in the article is accurate and I must admit many things stated in there are from other sources I have researched, Well what does one use as a proper load rating if your tires are dying so much from within?

"Long-term fatigue can also weaken a trailer tire. There are a number of factors that accelerate fatigue, but heat buildup from towing at high speeds is one of the main culprits, according to Fry.

"If you trailer nonstop from Phoenix, Arizona, to Las Vegas, in 100-degree temperatures at 65 mph, you use up much of the resources of that tire, and you don't realize it," said Fry.

Fry is not talking about wearing out the tread. It is the tire's construction that is breaking down. As heat builds up, the tire's structure starts to disintegrate and weaken. Over the course of several trips, this load-carrying capacity gradually decreases, according to Fry. Incidentally, all ST tires have a maximum speed rating of 65 mph."



So if I understand what they are staying is "As an estimate, in about three years roughly one-third of a tire's strength is gone, just because of the normal process of aging,"

And that "It is the tire's construction that is breaking down. As heat builds up, the tire's structure starts to disintegrate and weaken. Over the course of several trips, this load-carrying capacity gradually decreases, "


I am running ST225/75/15's, I am rated at 2,540# at 65 psi sitting on 5,000# axles. My rig axle loads are 4,375#, and I do some long range, 1,000 miles trips in the summer. Following that logic is after 3 years those tires are not strong enough to hold that weight??? If this is actually true should we be jumping a load range to allow the tire to die from within until the 5 years is up? Then the rims are no good from day one out of the factory.

How to sort all this out…. Well here is what I do.

1. Check tires pressure every trip. Set to max cold wall pressure. Having a compressor at home is a benefit.
2. Weigh each axle and make sure we are under the load ratings filled with fresh water if you haul it and under full GVWR of the TT.
3. Keep sun from tires as much as possible and I use 303 on them as well.
4. Check tires for cracks in both treads and side walls while you are down there checking the pressure.
5. Dates. Start with new tires as new as you can get. Request you will not buy a tire over 1 year old. Plan to wait if you have to until they can get them.
6. Replace tires at the 5 year period or if tread wear dictates first. I’m going with Denman and in there warranty they will not take a tire back if over 5 ears old. Must mean something.
7. Keep speed down. Normal interstate towing for me is not more then 60 MPH for reasons other then tires. Adding higher heat from over 65 does not help this slow death internal tire problem.
8. Sunline did do us a favor. At least on the newer rigs the axles and tires are sized to handle the full GVWR of the TT. If you stay under the GVWR you should not reach full tire load as the tongue weight is held by the truck. Tires and axle should be sized to handle full GVWR.

Hope this helps

John

[Honda03842]

John,

Nice Post. The only one of your rules I would change is having a compressor at home, which is a good idea. However, we always carry a compressor with us, probably because we're on the road so much. As you change climates, driving from CA to WA you need to add air.

We carry a small compressor that can take a while but does the job, and of course time is something I have.

Tires are a big RV issue. Too often the RV companies build to the axle/tire rating making it much too easy to go over load.

We also carry an aux. battery jumper and a bottle jack.


Norm Milliard

[partimcmpr]

Good post JohnB. When I purchased my Denmans from NTB, I had a long conversation about age and warned them I would only take fresh tires. I ended up with a pair less than three months, and a pair less than 6 months. Given the nature of trailer tires, I plan to insist on less than 6 months, and preferably under 3 months.

If, or should I say when , I purchase another trailer, I would certainly try to have the tires and wheels 'over-rated' for the load to be carried. I think that would give you the ability to stretch out to five years.

So far, the new Denmans are doing well. I have been keeping them covered, but I need to get the 303 for them as well.

Later,
ParTimCmpr

[Honda03842]

Pat and Cindy,

Sorry to be so late replying to your statment about 101.

Route 101 is a beautiful road. There are a couple of roads off that that are also a wonder. One of my favorites is the Petrolia Road from Ferndale, CA. It begins just off Main ST in Ferndale, goes over the even more coastal mountains, just beautiful, right down to the sea.

The Petrolia road runs through some of the first areas drilled for oil in CA.

Ferndale is an interesting town of restored Victorian homes and is worth the visit.

Norm Milliard

[JohnB]

Originally Posted by partimcmpr

When I purchased my Denmans from NTB, I had a long conversation about age and warned them I would only take fresh tires. I ended up with a pair less than three months, and a pair less than 6 months. Given the nature of trailer tires, I plan to insist on less than 6 months, and preferably under 3 months.

David

It was you who pointed me here locally to NTB and they carry them. And Hematite who pointed me in the direction of the Denmans.

My new axles are supose to be here next week and after they are on, the new tires will come. I'll try the 3 and 6 months thing as well. I have no problem in my case waiting a few weeks to get them. I'll report back on how I did. I did ask within a year that they had to order some to get that but I have not ordered yet but they where willing to work with me on 5 tires. Come to find out Denman is actually here in Ohio.

Thanks

John

[partimcmpr]

Originally Posted by JohnB

David

It was you who pointed me here locally to NTB and they carry them. And Hematite who pointed me in the direction of the Denmans.

My new axles are supose to be here next week and after they are on, the new tires will come. I'll try the 3 and 6 months thing as well. I have no problem in my case waiting a few weeks to get them. I'll report back on how I did. I did ask within a year that they had to order some to get that but I have not ordered yet but they where willing to work with me on 5 tires. Come to find out Denman is actually here in Ohio.

Thanks

John

I have the radials which came from Mexico. I seem to recall that maybe the bias ply came from US?? But I could be wrong.

Good luck!

[Hematite]

Yes, that is the information that I have, unless something has changed.

[wagonman76]

Radials do tend to run softer because of more allowed sidewall flex when going over bumps. They might be preferred to keep the trailer from feeling like a lumber wagon, and to keep things inside from getting shaken up as bad.

I have noticed something with my various trailer tires. I bought the Sunline in 2002 and that year put new tires on it because the old ones were iffy. I put on Sure-Trail bias ply tires. When working on my brakes and going through other issues, I wrapped the greased spindles in baggies and stored the tires/rims/brake gear inside the trailer, out of the sun, for 4 years. In 2006 I finished everything and and have been using it ever since. 3 years later in 2009 I noticed some cracks in the sidewalls. Just last weekend I replaced the tires with the the local shop had, Freestar radials that are very similar to the Goodyear Marathon radials.

I bought my Haulmark 5x8 trailer on Christmas Eve 2000. It came with Goodyear Marathon radials. They have always sat outside, and I have pulled heavier loads with that trailer than what the Sunline weighs loaded up (both are single axle). Over 9 years later, aside from the tread not as deep as it used to be, the tires still look like new. No cracks, bulges, nothing.

[Viking]

wagonman76,
Less than a year ago we replaced the Marathons on our 1991 Dutchmen 180, which by the way we sold today. They were made in Canada and looked good, but we got worried about hidden internal issues due to aging.
Those tires were on the trailer from the factory, so they were 18 years old!
With that kind of service, of course we stuck with new Marathons.
To my shock and horror I discovered that the new Marathons were made in CHINA!
I contacted Goodyear only to get their song and dance about: "We have factories all over the world, and they all have to adhere to the same high quality standards".
I told them Goodyear is now stricken from my shopping list!
Roar