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Old 08-03-2019, 06:31 PM   #1
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Atwood Oven

Hi all. I am having an issue with my Atwood High Output Electronic Ignition Oven. The three stove burners work just fine. I can light the oven pilot and it stays lit and when I turn the oven to temperature the pilot light increases....that's where everything stops. The oven burners do not light. The previous owner said she used the oven all the time, but I cannot seem to get it to light. Any suggestions? Thank you.
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Old 08-04-2019, 12:29 PM   #2
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Hi,

To get specific on your range, we need the model number and the manf date of the range. The model number and range mfg date are often found under the top stove burner cover, inside on a sticker. If yours is real old and does not have a date, tell us the camper model year and let us know it it the camper and not the range. Someone may have changed the range over the years.

How the stove top lifts up to get to the model tag has changed over the years, but "many" start like this.

You push at the center of the back of the stove top. Sometimes is needs to be hard to break it free if it has not been opened up in a long time. This allows the front latch area most times to break free and then the top can pivot up on the rear of the top.
Like this


Then the front comes up. Some have latches on the side of the stove top, others are in the center and they change from year to year too how they unclip.
top remove 2on Flickr

Then the model tag in the back area
Atwood Range model tagon Flickr

Atwood model number on Flickr

The good news, your pilot light stays lit. That is a good start. After this we need to know the model you have to help better. Many have a safety valve that has to open up before the main burner will come on. But we need to know the model before we can tell you what might be going on with yours. The oven gas controls changed over the years
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Old 08-04-2019, 02:22 PM   #3
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Hi. Thank you for the directions to find the tag. The stove top came up quite easily. The mfg date is 4/22/02, Serial #: C04220517 and Model #: R-A2131W2E. My camper is a Solaris Lite T-2475. Thanks for the help. Cathy
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Old 08-05-2019, 07:40 PM   #4
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Hi Cathy,

Thanks for the numbers, this helps greatly.

Your range and ours in our 2004 T310SR are close to the same as far as the oven is concerned. I did some digging and we have the Harper Wyman oven control. There are 2 pilot systems on this version.

A standby pilot. This is the one you light and you stated it did light and stay lit. Good.

A heater pilot. After the pilot is lit and when you turn the oven main burner on, the flame size of the pilot light gets bigger creating a heater. You said yours did this. This is good too. This heater pilot warms a thermocouple that once hot enough, opens a gas safety valve and then lets gas into the main burner.

BUT, you said it all stops working after the pilot flange gets bigger. And the prior owner used the oven all the time. It seems your gas safety valve is not opening as the first issue.

I found this in the service manual which I myself do not know as ours lights somewhat faster.

Quote:
The oven burner will come on 1 1/2 minutes from a cold start and 10 seconds from a hot start.
Point being, it may take 1 1/2 minutes with the pilot light in heater mode (the bigger flame on the pilot) to allow the main oven burner to light. Then once the system is up and hot, it can restart in around the 10 seconds time range.

Let's try this the simple fix first. Light the pilot, once it is lit and staying lit, turn the main burner knob on. Confirm the pilot is burning larger in flame and set a timer. Wait a good 1.5 to 2 minutes and see what happens.

1.5 minutes can seem like an eternity waiting for it. It might be, your system just takes longer for the heater pilot to warm up the thermocouple to open up the main burner safety valve the first time.

Let us know what happens. If yours is in heater mode for like 3 minutes and doing nothing, then we have to dig deeper into this.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 08-05-2019, 08:08 PM   #5
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Hi John. Thank you for getting back to me so soon. This is driving me nuts....lol. I lit the pilot and it stayed on (as usual). I set the oven at 400 degrees and set a timer for 3 minutes (actually I let it go a lot longer while I took pictures). Still nothing. The first picture is the pilot lit and the second is the oven on at 400 after more than 3 minutes. I just cannot figure out why this isn't working. Like I said, it's driving me nuts.
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File Type: jpg IMG_1694.jpg (15.0 KB, 64 views)
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:13 PM   #6
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Hi Cathy,

Something happened to your 2nd pic. I saw your post last night, and I have some info for you. But now your pics are only 1. Did you do something or what?

I was hoping to extra wait time would solve the issue. I know, that would of been too easy. It appears the main burner safety valve is not opening. Now to why? This may be simple or more involved. Let's try simple first.

Here are some pics of mine to show you what to look for.

First is the standby pilot, and the safety valve thermocouple sensor. See here
Standby pilot on Flickr

Look and see if the thermocouple sensor is in the exact same location as shown in my pic. You can shine a flashlight in and then try taking a pic of your if needed. If something was put in the oven and bumped the thermocouple sensor out of location, that can be an issue. It is common some folks store "stuff" in the oven and things can get bumped.

Next if the sensor is OK, is the little tube (looks like a wire) pinched or bent tight? It wraps around the main burner tube. See here
Saftey valve and thermocouple on Flickr

The little tube I am referring to is called the thermocouple capillary tube in the pic. Again, something may have bumped it, pinched it and it is not not working. When the sensor end is heated, the liquid in the tube expands and that little tube sends a signal to the safety gas valve to turn on.

Next is the flame. Your standby pilot would look like this when it is burning. Does it? The blue flame is only up high
Standby pilot burning on Flickr

When you turn the oven knob to heat the oven, then the heater pilot starts. It sends more gas to the pilot and the flame gets bigger. Notice the flame is now burning downwards and touching the safety valve thermocouple sensor.
Heater pilot burning on Flickr

Please confirm your heater pilot flame is touching the sensor.

You never made it to this stage yet, the thermocouple sensor gets hot enough, the liquid in the sensor and capillary tube expanded and signaled the main burner gas safety valve to open. My camera caught the burner just starting.

Main burner starting to light on Flickr

Main burner lit on Flickr

See what you can find out and report back. We can go from there. I'll ask this now, do you have a friend who works on gas appliances? Home appliances is OK.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:39 PM   #7
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Hi John. So, I'm starting with your step 1. Here is a picture of my standby pilot and thermocouple sensor. Does mine not seem as close as yours does? Hopefully the picture comes through okay.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:51 PM   #8
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Step 2. The thermocouple capillary tube appears to be fine. See picture. I'm getting pretty good at this crawling into a stove thing....lol.
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Old 08-06-2019, 07:59 PM   #9
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Step 3: No, the flame does not go downward when I turn the oven on. It get larger, but stays at right there. It doesn't touch the safety valve thermocouple like yours does. The picture is the pilot lit and the oven turned on at 350 deg. I really hope the photos are working okay.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:01 PM   #10
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Pics are coming through great.

Your pilot is yellow and looks weak. But that could be a picture anomaly


The flame does not seem to fill the space down to the end ramp like our does
Standby pilot burning Flickr


Question, have you run the furnace or the water heater (with water in it) on LP gas?

I'm trying to establish the system has enough gas pressure and if the furnace and water heater work on LP then the main tank regulator is working.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:02 PM   #11
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Can you safely get a pic of the heater pilot on? The flame has to touch the sensor and that is key.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathylee1959 View Post
Step 3: No, the flame does not go downward when I turn the oven on. It get larger, but stays at right there. It doesn't touch the safety valve thermocouple like yours does. The picture is the pilot lit and the oven turned on at 350 deg. I really hope the photos are working okay.
OK I got to go for now. Be back in a bit. That is an issue.


Tell me about the furnace and the water heater on gas if they work. Take a pic of the stove top burners working, all 3 on at one time. Want to see the flame color and strength of the flame.
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Old 08-06-2019, 08:53 PM   #13
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Hi John,

1. Yes, pilot is yellow, not blue like yours is, and is not filling the space down the ramp like yours either.

2. I am living in the camper for the summer and use the hot water daily; dishes and showering, etc. Works great and the water is quite hot.

3. I just turned the furnace on (even though it's 80 deg here, lol), and it is working just fine too.

4. Attached is a picture of the three stove burners running at a 6. They look pretty good to me.
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Old 08-07-2019, 11:02 AM   #14
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Hi Cathy,

I have been thinking about this over night and I did some more digging as your range and mine have the same oven controls. I have 3 campers with this vintage oven and my 4th camper has the next revision and sooner or later I have to overcome this issue.

Your standby pilot flame is very weak. The large amount of white in the flame versus blue, is an indicator of too much air for the amount of gas in the flame. In this case, the air adjustment is something I believe is preset, non adjustable. Which means, it's the lack of gas volume and pressure to mix with the air available to make the flame blue and reach all the way to the deflector ramp when the heater pilot turns on.

The same issue is occuring when you go to the heater pilot stage, when the oven is turned on. The flame has too much air and not enough gas.

Since the heater pilot will not warm up the safety valve thermocouple, odds are high the safety valve will not open which is why the main burner will not light.

So now what? This is no longer simple from what I can tell from here. If you have a friend who is a gas appliance repair person or you go to a place that repairs Atwood ranges, they can try and do this:

First, it is standard practice to do a gas pressure check on the system. They use a gas gage or manometer on one of the stove burner valves and check that the stove is receiving 10" WC of gas pressure. And they check that the pressure does not drop too low when another gas appliance turns on. This confirms that the main LP tank regulator and the stove gas regulator are working and the gas supply is correct to run the entire stove. This test is quick and easy with the right equipment.

Odds are favorable you have adequate gas pressure to the stove as the furnace and the water heater when running on gas both work. And that all 3 stove top burners are working at the same time. But, the pressure check is prudent to confirm it is not part of the problem.

Now to the next issue, which is most likely the problem. There is a restriction of some type in the pilot gas supply. This could be a tiny piece of rust from the main gas pipe or dirt etc. that is stuck inside the oven control valve (the oven knob), the pilot gas supply line or in the pilot orifice itself.

If the technician takes the time to take the range apart, they "might" be able to find the blockage and eliminate it and all is working again. Do not need parts.

The next issue is parts. Many times it is cheaper to replace parts then it is to try and figure out the exact issue with the one you have now. Cheaper can be due to the labor charge taking it all apart and trying to make what you have work. This is where the friend comes in handy. You bake them a batch of cookies when the oven works and they are happy! The service guy the who charges by the hour can add up a lot of cost trying to fix something that he does not have the parts for if he finds an issue needing a part.

Now the bigger issue. The thermocouples on the gas pilot and the gas safety valve of the RA 2131 range (what we have) used mercury in them which is now no longer offered. Even the next 2 revisions, the RA 2132 and RA 2133 have this issue. Your oven thermocouples at the moment still appear to be working, just the gas flow has issues. Getting parts on this vintage oven controls is getting harder and harder to find. Some are available and many not due to the mercury issue. I do not know the exact date, but it somewhere between 2006 and 2010, they stopped making the parts for our range oven controls and converted to the new non mercury systems.

They have offered a complete oven and stove control retrofit kit in the past, means all the gas controls are converted and you take the whole stove apart and upgrade them to the new style. Atwood part 52148 was one of these conversion kits for the newer RA 2133 series ranges. That the 33 range is 2 rev's newer than ours being a 31. I can't find that for sale and the main gas burner tube needs to be checked as ours may be different.

Unfortunately this is where we have come too. Your pics are perfect! and really helped get to this point.

We do have a few other RV techs on the forum that may have run into this issue before can can add more.

To make this worse, Atwood who was a really great company went out of business. You could call them and they had staff to help you. They sold the business to Dometic. Dometic takes a different stance on tech help. Unless you are an approved Dometic service center in their system, they will not talk to you. You can try and go an RV dealer who services the Atwood ranges. They should be able to help.

Hope this helps

John
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:19 AM   #15
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Hi John, thank you for all the information. So, this is pretty weird. I thought I'd give the oven another shot, so I lit the pilot and turned the oven on to 350. Now, the pilot looks like yours does before the oven lights. The oven still doesn't light, but it seems like I've got progress now. I'm attaching two photos. IMG1694 is the before issue with the pilot not burning downwards. IMG1731 is what it looked like today.



Also, yes, the previous owner said she used the oven all the time. However, I'm not really buying that because the oven doesn't appear to have EVER been used, it is sparkling clean with zero stains or burn marks on the burner. I'm wondering if maybe the tube thingy is blocked...maybe a mouse or something got in there...Just a thought. Do you think it's safe to take it apart and have a look-see?



Cathy
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Old 08-14-2019, 06:17 PM   #16
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Hi John. I just wanted to add to my post from earlier today. Does these photos look like an oven that was "used all the time"? LOL.
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File Type: jpg IMG_1737.jpg (137.3 KB, 1 views)
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:59 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathylee1959 View Post

Also, yes, the previous owner said she used the oven all the time. However, I'm not really buying that because the oven doesn't appear to have EVER been used, it is sparkling clean with zero stains or burn marks on the burner. I'm wondering if maybe the tube thingy is blocked...maybe a mouse or something got in there...Just a thought. Do you think it's safe to take it apart and have a look-see?

Cathy
Cathy,

I agree the oven does not show many signs of heavy use. There is usually some level of splatter.

I do not think a rodent caused this issue looking at it from the pics. They would leave some signs of being there. It is a pristine clean oven

The flame still has a very high tail on it. While the flame does at least travel down the deflector, more flame is very above the thermocouple. There may not be enough energy from the flame to heat the sensor and allow the safety valve to open. While it is better, it still does not look correct.

A gas appliance person may be able to clean out the issue either the blocked pilot line. But it starts up too at the stove valve for the oven. The tip of the pilot may have debris on it also. They are very fine offices and are often chemically cleaned to soak out carbon etc.

This is too complex to try to type all that needs to be done

But seeing the flame longer says there may be hope at least. Have you tried to find a service person?

Hope this helps

John
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:24 PM   #18
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Hi John, I am either going to have someone look at it, or just switch it out for another range. I have pulled the oven out looking for kinks and such and everything looks brand new still, even though it's a 2002 stove which makes no sense to me at all that nobody has ever looked into this, no mouse droppings anywhere, I've cleaned the pilot with a toothbrush and basically just banged my head against a wall trying to figure this out. LOL. I've tried heating the tube with a lighter and still nothing. At this point, I am getting ready to head south for the winter (with the camper), and when I get to an actual campground I'm hoping they have someone near there that can have a look at it. I am definitely not an expert by any means, but I honestly think the sensor thingy never worked. I know it's mercury based and probably needs an upgrade anyway, but possibly just was defective from the beginning and all the previous owners just didn't care to bother with it. I will definitely keep you posted on how I make out. Maybe someone else can benefit from all my head banging....
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Old 08-28-2019, 10:20 AM   #19
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Atwood Oven

Hi John, or anyone else with info. I ordered a replacement for the Harper Wyman Safety Valve. Hopefully that is the fix I need. I'm looking for information on installing this myself. Anything I should be aware of? Does the propane need to be shut off? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you In Advance.



Cathy
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Old 09-01-2019, 11:26 PM   #20
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Hi Cathy,

Been without internet for the last few days. Sorry for so long to respond.

On changing out the safety valve, and doing it yourself. This task has inherent risks with it due to the gas service. There is more to this then trying to explain all the needed steps. The risks surround a gas leak that needs to be tested to insure there is none and that the gas fittings are correctly installed. If this is not checked and confirmed, then a leak in the oven burner supply can create a large hazard if it catches fire.

If you can find a gas repair person to hire or you know, would be the better way to do this. They are trained on what to look for and test for leaks that do not show up in an attempted set of install instructions. This service person can be someone who works on gas home appliances. Or an RV tech.

Hope this helps

John
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