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Old 07-27-2012, 09:38 AM   #1
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Another roof question

Hi all,
I just found this site after returning from a trip out to Deleware with my Solaris 2670. I'm the second owner and have owned it for ~10 years. I was reading the website and ran across a "Roof question" about a soft spot that is similar to my roof issue. I have a soft spot on the front passenger side of the membrane roof. I have known about this for a number of years and check and re-seal edges as needed. There seems to be an area right where the membrane transitions to the metal siding that is probably about 1/3 to 1/2 the width of the trailer and probably back to the first roof joist where there is no backing to be felt. It is like just a piece of rubber hanging over a hole. I haven't really noticed any leaks inside so I haven't done much about it. But after returning from last trip and doing an inspection I noticed the the aluminum channel that is screwed to hold the edge of the membrane and siding popped up and broke the seal. I removed the screws and could tell that the wood that the screws go into was soft and rotting. For a temporary fix I removed about 4 screws, shot some Dicor lap sealant under the channel, replaced existing screws with longer ones and added 3 or 4 screws in between existing ones to help pull down the channel. After resealing everything, it rained last night. I think for now it's ok, but there is a low spot that the water puddled up on. So my dilema is what I should do long term. I'd like to pull the membrane back and see what the damage is and replace underlayment, but it looks like a fairly big job. Having some place repair it is out, I've got 2 kids in college and one to start soon. I do 99% of all my repair on house and vehicles so I'm not to worried about the skills required for the repair. My biggest issue is time (I'm not retired) and I think I may be opening up a can of worms. Anyone had to deal with this issue or have any thoughts on what direction to go?
Thanks,
Russ
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Old 07-30-2012, 06:46 PM   #2
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Hi Russ,

It sounds like you are handy with wood and have the tools. I myself would try and look to see if there is a problem up in the attic verses leaving it. If there is moisture in wet wood or the bud board liner under the rubber membrane is wet, it will wick across the area. And then issues will come and by the time you can see it inside, it may have taken it’s toll up in the attic.

If there is a light fixture up in that area take it down and poke an inspection camera up there to see if you can see anything above the insulation. They may rent them or you have one as they are getting pretty cheap now a days compared to years ago. I am taking about a flexible cable with a mini light and camera on the end. Some are 3 feet long cord, some 8 plus feet. Also sniff the air up by that fixture hole. Any musty smell means something up there is wet.

Also try the roof vent hatch. Take in the inside shroud down. You may have to drill a hole in the box out area to get the inspection camera in there.

Here are 2 folks who rebuilt their roof them selves.

“Frank” here on the forum did a really great job and found more then he thought going in, but it is now sound.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f71/t2363-water-leak-repair-9066.html

Here is “vcrt”s. Rich had an entire sky light….wide open hole once he was into it. He too did a great job fixing his up.
http://www.sunlineclub.com/forums/f63/pictures-of-our-sunline-7621.html

Hope this helps and good luck. Let us know if you need help

John

PS I saw this on mine, I knew I needed to deal with this before it rusted the screws and then wicked water in the screw and into the wood. My buddies new camper was heavly damaged from wicking water in the screws. Thay brand did not caulk the top of the roof to the gutter and just relied on butyl tape when they 1st started using TPO roffing. No good.





See here for more on the fix. Eternabond Roof Seal Tape on a Sunline (Lots of pics)
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Old 07-31-2012, 07:55 PM   #3
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John,
This is exactly what I was looking for. I am familar with traditional home platform construction, and I knew that Sunline used 2x2 construction, but really wasn't familiar with the exterior siding, trim and roofing details used in trailer construction. The pictures on the 3 links you posted really give me an idea of what I'm possible getting into.

The first thing I just did was remove a speaker near the corner of concern. I couldn't see back inside the cavity very far but the first thing I noticed is the rafter in that corner seems to be detached from the side as I could push it down. Not a good sign, I suspect it's rotted as in some of the threads you provide. Before I start ripping things apart, I am going to borrow a fiberoptic scope from work (we use it for inspecting insides of pipes and vessels), to try to see how extensive damage might be. As I mentioned, time is my biggest issue and this may take several weekends if I decide to do it, since there's no time during the week. I already have a backlog of projects.

My kids are getting to that age that they're not really interested in going camping with the family anymore. Before this problem came up, my wife and I were wondering if we would use this camper with kids much anymore or if we should downsize since we don't need the bunk beds. I need to evaluate the damage, decide what my options are and what direction I will take.

Thanks for the info, I let you know what I find.
Russ
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRS2670 View Post
Before I start ripping things apart, I am going to borrow a fiberoptic scope from work (we use it for inspecting insides of pipes and vessels), to try to see how extensive damage might be.

Russ
Hi Russ,

Good you have access to a bore scope....Cool!!! I tried not to use the techno talk as not everyone comes from an industrial background. Yes the bore scopes of today are sure a lot different then years back. Mine is a black and white one and I have to view it through an eye pieice. Since the word of digitial media has taken off you can get one with a full 3" or bigger viewing screen, color and can take pics of it to down load to an SD card at a fraction of the price. Even Harbor Freight now has them....

Good luck and happy hunting. If you have a loose rafter, sounds like a later fall, winter and early spring project may be in the works.

If you can handle home carpentry, there is nothing in a Sunline camper you cannot fix. It is also one of the reasons I like the stick built ones. I know I can fix it. These new composite campers glued togehter make after the sale repairs more challanging.

John
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:36 PM   #5
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Hey John,
We have a newer version of scope your talking about with a screen, but I using the old fiberoptic one with the eye piece, but at least it's in color.

It's difficult to see in the roof cavity, the insulation keeps getting in the lens. I can see that there is water stain on the under side of the underlayment that backs the membrane.

I have a front bedroom similar to Rich's in one of your links, the one where he ripped the guts and roof off. What I want to do is remove the upper cabinet and remove the inner panel that transitions from the cealing to the angled wall panel. Sunline does a good job of hiding fasteners. I see some screws inside of the cabinet screwed into the rafter, but don't see any other screws. How are the corner plastic beads attached, are they stabled to the framing and the paneling goes over the stabled flange? Also wondering how the ceiling panels are attached? Can I get this stuff apart with out damaging so I can re-use it. Everything visible inside looks in good shape, I don't want to replace things and try to match existing panels not taken apart. Is there any threads with pictures of the cabinets and paneling during disassembly or reassembly stages that may give me an idea how thngs are put together.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRS2670 View Post
I have a front bedroom similar to Rich's in one of your links, the one where he ripped the guts and roof off. What I want to do is remove the upper cabinet and remove the inner panel that transitions from the cealing to the angled wall panel. Sunline does a good job of hiding fasteners. I see some screws inside of the cabinet screwed into the rafter, but don't see any other screws. How are the corner plastic beads attached, are they stabled to the framing and the paneling goes over the stabled flange? Also wondering how the ceiling panels are attached? Can I get this stuff apart with out damaging so I can re-use it. Everything visible inside looks in good shape, I don't want to replace things and try to match existing panels not taken apart. Is there any threads with pictures of the cabinets and paneling during disassembly or reassembly stages that may give me an idea how thngs are put together.
Russ,

These campers are built "inside-out." For the most part the cabinets are attached from outside, through the paneling. The corner welt (bead trim) strips are attached to one wall with staples and the other wall is placed against it and attached. The ceiling panels sit on top of the walls, sandwiched between the wall framing and the roof framing.

If you want to take it apart, and then put it back and have it look 100% "original" then the only way to do it is remove the siding and insulation to get the cabinets out. With the ceiling panels, you would have to remove the siding, roof membrane (alum, rubber, whatever), pull up the decking (ply, bud board, etc), and then remove the roof panel.

All that said, it can and has been done from the inside. The way they are assembled you can't get it 100% back to "original," but I've seen some nice jobs done with creative use of more traditional trim (wood/plastic moldings).

To get a better idea of how these are assembled, see my build thread from last year: Homemade Travel Trailer Project. Although it's not a Sunline, the construction techniques are basically the same as you would find in your camper.

Hope this helps.

- Frank
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Old 08-04-2012, 08:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRS2670 View Post

It's difficult to see in the roof cavity, the insulation keeps getting in the lens. I can see that there is water stain on the under side of the underlayment that backs the membrane.
Hi Russ,

If you see a water stain on the bud board, heavy corrugate, (thick and solid) then somehow and at some time water made it's way inside. Heads up, if the water was very much that bud board acts as a wick and sucks it across the camper. How far it goes depends on how much water source it has to draw from.

Is the stain still wet looking?

Franks link to his new camper build is a good one to see the process.

Here is one coming apart. This was a salvage mission by Kitty and EMD_Driver. If you PM EMD_Driver he may have more pics to share.

A look behind the walls of a slide room

Wrecked 03/04 299SR found... possibilities!

And from UpBuilder
Sunline Rebuild (lots of pics)

Good luck and keep us posted. You posting pics really help others following in your footsteps.

John
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:49 PM   #8
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Pictures of leak damage

I just finally got around to looking at my leak issue a little closer. The roof has probably been seeping (very small leak) for some time. Rotted wood doesn't seem excessive. In the winter I have a tarp over roofing, and then an actual trailer cover to protect the tarp from UV. Side of cover has breathable material so moisture can get out. I did this intentionally so that water wouldn't freeze and thaw and make the roof seems even more prone to opening up and leaking. Trailer is probably covered 6 mo out of year. Here's link to pictures, read comments and descriptions:

1997 Sunline Solaris 2670 pictures by rs900c - Photobucket

Now I need to come up with a plan of action. First off this is going to take some time so I may have an option to keep in a barn while I work on it. I'm sure this is going to be a long duration project because of my limited time available to work on it. I am going to try not to disturb the inside and fix from outside. I'm looking for any opinions on how to go about this. I assume that I will have to remove the aluminum channel that transitions membrane and front siding.
Remove the 2 front corner channels. Remove the awning and side gutter/channel. At this point I would try to peel back the membrane from the front right corner and access the rafters. I'm hoping to access the framing without removing any siding. Is what I'm suggesting make sense, or does someone see anything I may be missing? Comments are welcomed, I don't think I'll get started for a while yet.

Thanks,
Russ
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Old 09-01-2012, 01:05 PM   #9
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I also have a 1997 2670. My ceiling in the front is also sagging - at the seam. I took down the lights and speakers but could not really find any water damage. I also have no leak "spots" on my ceiling. I do have a black substance (like a glue) that I found on the seam - but again, no sign of water. I am wondering if maybe a glue was used behind the seam and the heat let it loose. I'm interested to see what you find. Please post pictures to help me in my journey also! Wish you all the best.

Rich
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:14 PM   #10
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Hi Russ,

These 3 pics tell a lot




I'm assuming you do not want to disturb the nice interior you have by going in from the outside. Did I get this right?

Well.... you can try. The worst is you going to run into a situation where you have to do something on the inside. But you will not know this until you get into this.

Odds are very high this damage came in the top front roof seam or the top corner channels of the camper. Those are 2 very prone regions for water intrusion. It is also the reason I put Eternabond sealing tape over the entire top front and rear and side seams. I also added Dicor roof sealant on the edges of the front corner moldings to help not have water work in the putty tape.

In this pic the side corners and the top seam from the outside need to come off. You can take off the aluminum on the front off as well. Then replace the bad wood.



There is a product called Rot Dr. Wood preservation, rot repair, and restoration using epoxy resin on boats and homes. that I used on my rotted slide floor. I used it on the wood that was not rotten and removed in the area to make sure it is sealed out from fungus and later dry rot. If there are any questionable boards use this to treat them. And use the respirator they tell you too as this stuff is really fumes on steroids.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress and take lots of pics. The pics really help a lot of folks when they run into this or something simialr.

John
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Old 09-01-2012, 09:16 PM   #11
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Also when you seal it back up, use butyl sealing tape in place of putty tape in the corner edgings. The putty tape dries up over time and then the water can wick right past it. And Eternabond the top front seam.
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Old 08-26-2013, 05:18 PM   #12
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Hi all,
It's been close to a year since I posted about my trailer with the leaky roof. A number of things have changed in my life and I don't think I will be doing anymore RV vacations. I just wanted to get a gut check on what I might get out of this 1997 2670 with the temporarily patched leak as shown in the previous pictures. Most of the rest of the trailer is in good condition. I have kept the trailer under cover, so the things shouldn't of got worse. I will be looking inside soon to re-access. I assume this is probably not a good time of year to sell. I also assume that it isn't worth much? Can I get $2k-3k or will it just sit here over the winter. I'd like to sell it quick but not give it away. Do Sunline usually sell well through this forum, or is selling it locally the best way to go? Any opinions or advise appreciated.

Thanks,
Russ
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Old 08-30-2013, 09:16 PM   #13
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Hi Russ,

Sorry to hear hear about your situation. Hope things work out OK.

On the camper, time of year may not matter that much. You will need to find the right buyer that can pick up where you left off and has the skills or someone who can do the work for them.

While it may not sell this time of year, I would not let it stop you from trying. You can't loose a lot by not trying.

Price, this one is tough.

See here what an intact 1997 2670 is declared as with no water damage

1997 Sunline Solaris Series M-2670 Standard Equipment, Prices & Specs - NADAguides

Again your going to need to find the right buyer that wants a starter camper and has the ability to fix it themselves. The materials are not that bad, the labor is the problem. This is a tough spot.

Best of luck to you

John
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Old 12-03-2013, 03:23 PM   #14
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Hi Russ,

I would inspect the roof a couple of times a year to look for cracks or any further leaking. replacing the roof of your RV is a common problem and patching leaks will almost always leak to more and more repairs further down the line.

There are different types of mobile home roof repairs on the market, however we almost always use a rubber roof replacement. The rubber roof has an added benefit of dulling noise from rain and hail.

If you are looking for a quick fix then I would recommend using a form of Eternabond Roofseal tape.

hope this helps and good luck
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